CNP Version x.x?

[Macker]

OK, this is getting to me. We all know that Gaius Baltar wrote the Command Navigation Program, which half the code was rewritten by Caprica Six to install the Cylon backdoors.
Was this a completely new operating system or a version upgrade? I lean toward the latter, since ships which did NOT receive the upgrade (such as the Pegasus), or had their systems purged (such as the surviving MkVII Vipers from Galactica) did fine in combat.
And how far back does the CNP go if this was the only operating system available? I would welcome a discussion on version numbers.

[Caldumidoan]

I don't think the CNP was an operating system, certainly not in the way I'm familiar with the term. And why should whatever they used before the CNP be so bad just because it wasn't CNP? The reason for replacing it could be that it wasn't made for use in a computer network, which ultimately proved to be its advantage rather than a disadvantage.

And what's a new version anyway? Both Windows and MacOS have been through massive revolutions in which only the name and certain superficial features maintain a continuity.

[Macker]

Originally Posted by Caldumidoan

I don't think the CNP was an operating system, certainly not in the way I'm familiar with the term. And why should whatever they used before the CNP be so bad just because it wasn't CNP? The reason for replacing it could be that it wasn't made for use in a computer network, which ultimately proved to be its advantage rather than a disadvantage.

And what's a new version anyway? Both Windows and MacOS have been through massive revolutions in which only the name and certain superficial features maintain a continuity.

So, if I understand you correctly, CNP is actually a software application, rather than an entire OS, which handles interstellar navigation and that's it. I feel more comfortable with that.
"My gods, this Photoshop is a bloated piece of crap! Flush it and replace it with Pixelmator!"

[Caldumidoan]

Well, it's hard to tell exactly what the CNP was and the wiki doesn't state where it got the idea that it was an operating system from. Even if it's from an official source, it is uncertain if that person has any deeper knowledge about computer systems.

When I wrote that the CNP wasn't an operating system, I was using the term in the strictest sense. In that sense, an operating system doesn't deal with navigation, which the name implies that the CNP did. It just provides the basic framework for a navigation program to run on.

However, the CNP may have been more than just a basic operating system, just like Windows is. It may have been a full suite of everything a spacecraft needs to operate, or it may have been just a simple module that was added to existing systems. The CNP is referred to as simply a navigation program several times, so it might be restricted to just navigation, and not all the other functions a Viper or battlestar needs to fight.

In any case, there is no need for an earlier version of CNP, just some other software that made the spacecrafts work properly, but didn't have whatever new features CNP was supposed to provide and was called something else. Just like some computers used MS-DOS before Windows, and some still do while still performing well at what they were supposed to do.

The fact that Baltar's creation was called the CNP, and not the new CNP, suggest that it wan't just a improvement of an earlier system with the same name. But it doesn't rule out that it was a refinement of an earlier system or program with another name either.

[BSGfan-atic]

My feeling is that it was a program that would allow for much greater flexibility and ease of operation for spacecraft (see Lt. Hoshi's conversation with Lt. Shaw when he was showing her to her quarters at the start of Razor). It was also probably something similar to what the U.S. military uses now, that would allow Colonial forces to know where other Colonials were, as well as uploading all their sensor information to a common map, thus allowing for greater efficiency in distribution of firepower. There were probably multiple levels of capability available, depending on what it was installed in. A Viper pilot would have access to far less info and capability than would a battlestar commander. Just my two cents.

[weedkiller]

That makes sense. I bet the modern colonial fleet used a system like that to better direct fire using some kind of friend-or-foe map. I think that Galactica was built for the "slug it out" grudge match against a few basestars and newer battlestars had more tech in mind for coordinated fire control over a large battlefield.

Peggy had a glass chin. Galactica would have kicked her ass.

[BSGfan-atic]

Whoa! That's my girl you're talking about, there! LOL. That depends on which Peggy we're talking about. The one from The Captain's Hand, where Lee had her open up on the basestar with those large tubes sticking out of said glass chin, would have pulverized Galactica, sorry to say. The Peggy that came out of nowhere to rescue Galactica in Exodus, Pt. 2, where the fx guys must have forgotten about those weapons, and had her firing just regular turret-mounted weapons, that Peggy would be much more evenly matched against Galactica. I'm still pissed at Fat Lee for throwing away the best military asset they had!

[Caldumidoan]

It is also possible that the CNP consisted of several components that were rolled out individually.

Originally Posted by BSGfan-atic

...in Exodus, Pt. 2, where the fx guys must have forgotten about those weapons...

I thought I saw Pegasus blow a basestar to pieces in two seconds with those guns.

[BSGfan-atic]

Originally Posted by Caldumidoan

It is also possible that the CNP consisted of several components that were rolled out individually.



I thought I saw Pegasus blow a basestar to pieces in two seconds with those guns.

I'm curious as to what you mean by several components rolled out individually. I can see a bunch of different programs, but all connected to the one main Colonial defence mainframe. I'm curious as to how the CNP could be several pieces. What's your vision of it?

And as for the dear old Peggy, I thought it was the usual forward turret-mounted guns that she used to shred the one basestar when she jumped into the battle over New Caprica. If you take a look at my avatar and my signature pics though, you can see the difference, especially in the signature pic. Those were the turret-mounted guns, not the fixed ones that are shown in action in my avatar pic. I'll take another look at it, though.

[Caldumidoan]

Since they often said "CNP navigation program", it might be that the CNP consisted of a navigation program and another (or several) program(s) having to to with the the command part of the name. The other part was never mentioned and might not have been finished or installed. It is also possible that the command program was older, and did not contain any Cylon backdoors. The Cylon backdoor was after all not accessed from within the Colonial defence network, but was apparently triggered individually on each spacecraft when they saw a Cylon eye. To me, it seems likely that it had something to do with Cylon ocular IFF, as demonstrated in the first episode of season four. Operating in (near) visual wavelengths, it is likely that this could be picked up by the same sensors used to navigate by the stars, hence the choice to compromise the navigation program.

[BSGfan-atic]

Interesting theory about the sensors picking it up, thus compromising the navigation portion of the CNP. And your right, anything made to work with the Navigation portion wouldn't have to have anything built into it, as anything coming from the Nav portion would be from a "trusted" source.

[Mister Oragahn]

Originally Posted by Macker

So, if I understand you correctly, CNP is actually a software application, rather than an entire OS, which handles interstellar navigation and that's it. I feel more comfortable with that.
"My gods, this Photoshop is a bloated piece of crap! Flush it and replace it with Pixelmator!"

Huh, why? The latest CNP could have been a "service pack" that left some major backdoors, without geeks on the interwebs to whine about the awful changes on Wired because it largely was sold to the colonial military.

From foggy memories of Razor, it seems the CNP was already installed inside the ships.
It's possible it was already sold and installed a few years ago, with a contract for simple maintenance and updates. Enters sexy six.

[Mister Oragahn]

Originally Posted by weedkiller

That makes sense. I bet the modern colonial fleet used a system like that to better direct fire using some kind of friend-or-foe map. I think that Galactica was built for the "slug it out" grudge match against a few basestars and newer battlestars had more tech in mind for coordinated fire control over a large battlefield.

Peggy had a glass chin. Galactica would have kicked her ass.

Go figure. Pegasus took some severe punishment, including multiples, without suffering too much. However, the number and placement of her turrets leaves much to be desired, although I suppose she can carry more fighters and bombers (which makes the Pegasus more apt at fighting at long ranges), and posseses two forward guns which ripped Basestars like if there were no tomorrow.
To go your way, such guns could only be used at a greater distance, while we've seen that most of the time, battlestars circle their target. There would therefore be a need for greater coordination.

[Caldumidoan]

Originally Posted by Mister Oragahn

Huh, why? The latest CNP could have been a "service pack" that left some major backdoors, without geeks on the interwebs to whine about the awful changes on Wired because it largely was sold to the colonial military.

I don't think it was a service pack. Not in the sense Windows got service packs. CNP, or at least the Baltar's navigation program, seems to be a rather massive upgrade from what was used before. I think it's also more likely that the writers had a new version or something completely new in mind, rather than a service pack. (Though the Colonial military might use the term service pack for a massive rollout of new software for all I know.)

Another thing is that Galactica and Pegasus run different software, or different versions of the same software, based on the look of the user interfaces. Whether the CNP would have a different user interface, or is a backend module, is unknown. While we see a CNP equipped Viper VII display in the miniseries, the same display is also used for Viper II, so it's hard to say which Viper, if any, that display is canon for.

[Medium9]

You guys think too much Personal Computer!

For specialized work, such as core components of a ship that need a maximum of reliability, there usually is a specialized piece of hardware. These usually consist mainly of programmable micro controllers, some even have those customized.
Chips like these then are usually programmed with a piece of software that handles both: Operating the peripheral hardware AND the task at hand. They are OS and application at the same time, and do not resort to a generalized framework to run in.

Thus, the term "operating system" may just as well be understood as "the system, that takes care of the operation", while "operation" means handling the whole task - not just the mere controlling of the computer hardware and providing an environment for applications.

Sure, there are OSes around for PICs, but especially military use often demands such special properties, that a generic pre-existing OS wouldn't do the job (good enough) in terms of reliability, hardware configuration or simply flexibility.

Thus, the distinction "OS" and "app" may just not apply at all.

PC users had a glimpse at similar things when games became larger than DOS: Some shipped on a bootable disk that carried a specializes mini-OS alongside the game itself, some games even also were their own OS. When booted from such a disk, the computer would only run the game, and closing the game would also hang the computer (or reboot it). Might be a comparable concept for illustration