F-22 vs SU-37 fighter aircrafts

[NEXUX]

Hi
If you all like aviation and also interested in about fighter s on the air would like to hv ur ideas about this :


Which one is better fighter aircraft

Sukhoi Su-37

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Sukhoi_SU-37.jpg

or

F-22 Raptor



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Two_F-22_Raptor_in_flying.jpg

[aylinn]

Yeah... Polish army just bought F-16 form the USA and let's say they fly so I think I would rather choose Sukhoi Su-37 :D

[Shane]

F-16s are very stable aircraft. :)

[aylinn]

F-16s are very stable aircraft. :)
Not the one we bought :D None of them was able to fly in combat when planes landed in Poland. Our army is sometimes so naive. And I surprise myself of joining the army and going on a mission :).

[NEXUX]

F-16 is one of the great fighter because multirole jet fifghter .
The F-16's official name is "Fighting Falcon" but I hear after the BSG starfighters VIPERS pilots started to call it VIPER also.

Not the one we bought :D None of them was able to fly in combat when planes landed in Poland. Our army is sometimes so naive. And I surprise myself of joining the army and going on a mission :).

I heard Polish Air Force bought F-16C/F-16D
But dont know if they have LANTIRN

[aylinn]

Whatever we bought it's a crap. Nothing works there. I mean, they fly but everytime there is something to repair. We had so many problems with those planes that it would be cheaper to buy brand new ones :). I love my country, it's so funny :D

[james968]

The F-16 (IIRC) were designed more by Pilots, whereas the F-15 was more a product of the traditional FIghter Design program. (Which I thought was cool)

Of course someone in the USAF will come up and tell me how wrong I am.

[NEXUX]

I also love The Grumman F-14 Tomcat.
Legend machines ...

[ShadowEnigma]

B-1B if we must insist on modern times.

P-61 still a favorite of mine though.

On this particular matter, I'd have to say the Raptor.

[BklynBruzer]

This particular matchup, I have to go with the Raptor, but my all-time favorite plane is the BUFF, the B-52.

[buerger23]

I'd have to go with the Raptor as well but if the Su-47 was up here it would almost be no debate. But my favourite of all time would have to be the A-1 Skyraider.

[Osprey]

very old AF joke --

an aging b-52 was to be flown cross country from it's active duty base to a ANG base in another state. Its crew readied the old bird for the flight, and was informed that a young f-15 ANG fighter jock from the destination base would be acting as their escort. The planes take off and head west for the several hour long flight. during the trip, the fighter pilot starts doing a few rolls and loops, arrogantly showing off. The veteran CO of the buff, smiling beneath his oxygen mask, says, "ok kid. now watch while i pull off this trick."
the bomber continues to cruise as before. after a minute, the fighter jock asks "what kind of trick is that?"

"well," came the reply "we just shut off 2 of our engines."

miffed, the young buck whirls into a 1/2 minute show of climbs, dives, goes inverted, the works. As he settles back onto the buff's wing, the CO again says "ok, now watch this."
again, the stratofortress continues to crusie smoothly.
inscensed by this point, the kid cries out "you didn't do anything!"
"actually" he hears "i stretched my legs, hit the latrine, smoked a cig, and gulped down a cup of coffee."
:-)
:-)

[BklynBruzer]

very old AF joke --

an aging b-52 was to be flown cross country from it's active duty base to a ANG base in another state. Its crew readied the old bird for the flight, and was informed that a young f-15 ANG fighter jock from the destination base would be acting as their escort. The planes take off and head west for the several hour long flight. during the trip, the fighter pilot starts doing a few rolls and loops, arrogantly showing off. The veteran CO of the buff, smiling beneath his oxygen mask, says, "ok kid. now watch while i pull off this trick."
the bomber continues to cruise as before. after a minute, the fighter jock asks "what kind of trick is that?"

"well," came the reply "we just shut off 2 of our engines."

miffed, the young buck whirls into a 1/2 minute show of climbs, dives, goes inverted, the works. As he settles back onto the buff's wing, the CO again says "ok, now watch this."
again, the stratofortress continues to crusie smoothly.
inscensed by this point, the kid cries out "you didn't do anything!"
"actually" he hears "i stretched my legs, hit the latrine, smoked a cig, and gulped down a cup of coffee."
:-)
:-)

Hahaha, nice one!

[NEXUX]

I'd have to go with the Raptor as well but if the Su-47 was up here it would almost be no debate. But my favourite of all time would have to be the A-1 Skyraider.

I did not add SU-47 because Sukhoi PAK FA PROJECT and CHINESE J-XX are prototype concepts.
Infact I dont think we can compare SU-47 and F-22 because SU-47 was a technology demonstrator ; It is one the great prototype and may not even make into production.

If you still wanna compare it :
Su-37 Flanker, a super maneuverable aircraft.
The S-37 Berkut has an estimated top speed of 1544 mph - 1555 mph, while the F-22 Raptor has an top speed of approximately 1325 mph

Also the Russians have 3D thrust vectoring.
The F-22 has 2D thrust vectoring.

About F-22 we can just say superior low observability and also radar fire control sytems but this does not help in any dog fight to F-22 vs SU-47

About importenten of the vectoring I just ass this short video of MIG29.

Mig 29 OVT Thrust vectoring (closeup and display) at RIAT'06

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeiqMn7xb_Y

[Hollywoodvillain]

Guys lemme set the record straight here. I have several friends in the aerospace industry and know some guys who fly for the U.S. Navy. I can tell you almost for sure that the F-22 will dominate the SU-37 or any of its variants so far in any kind of combat for several reasons.

The main reason why the USAF chose the YF-22 over the YF-23 was because of its superior manueverability. In fact at first, the air-force originally wasn't so concerned about agility in its next-gen fighter as much as it was stealth. However that changed with the collapse of the soviet-union and the realization that future air battles would be fought in very populated environments which would require visual identification, and hence dogfighting (indeed this contributed to the retirement of the F-14, a fighter designed to carry the long range phoenix missle, which never saw combat due to these circumstances).

The F-22 was designed for dogfighting. Anyone thinking that agility had to be comprimised for stealth is incorrect. In the past, stealth airframes had to be constantly modified manually and tested to acheive the best windtunnel/RCS results. Now however, new computer technology and algorithms have allowed designers to create an almost perfect platform before even going to the prototype stage. This is like reducing decades of research and testing to just a few years.

So before I explain all the resons why the F-22 will dominate in WVR combat, lemme talk about its BVR combat. While the F-22 does posess a very powerfull radar, it wasn't really designed to use it. The F-22 is to be integrated into an entire defense network, including AWACS reports, as part of its primary mission. Using its radar is a last resort, as it will give away the Raptors position, so its designed to seemlessly incorporate information from other scorces to get a clear battlefield picture. Even in the event of stealth being comprimised, the F-22 posesses supercruise, so it can still fire missles from a longer range because they will leave the aircraft with a higher velocity than conventional fighters. It has already proven this in tests, in fact the USAF even slightly delayed the development of its newest longer range AIM-120 because the F-22 can launch the current model almost as far as the planned upgrade launched with "regular" aircraft.

In WVR combat the stakes are hardly fair. The F-22 carries all its weapons internally so the only effect on the airframe is weight. Its sleek profile means that its not affected by aerodymamic drag typical of missles/pylons or other obtrusions, and because its payload is closer to the center of gravity, it can roll faster. In a guns only engaugement, the F-22 possesses superior agility in all but the slowest speed of the fight envelope. This is due to the fact the Raptor has +/-5 degree more thrust vectoring angle capability (+/- 15 degree for the SU-37, +/- 20 for the F-22). This might not seem like much, but it really counts at high sub-sonic speeds. The SU-37 does possess front canards, but these only really take full effect when your down in the weeds, and no self-respecting pilot would let himself be dragged down that slow.

In fact the only technology on the SU-37 worth nothing is its backward facing radar. Firing missles behind you would almost make agility irrelevent, however, there is speculation as to how well this system actually works.

Also to all those who think the US is behind the russians in thrust vectoring, think again. The USAF already converted all their "standard" fighters into thrust vectoring monsters (F-16 VISTA, F-15 ACTIVE, F-18 HARV) in the mid 80's, and they even developed dedicated thrust vectoring experimental planes (X-31). It wasn't untill 1996 that the first flight of the SU-37 took place, which of course was just a thrust-vectored SU-27/33.

And yes, I've seen the videos of both SU-37's and F-22's. And yes, the F-22's seemed very lame compared to the double cobra-pulling, back flipping, almost unbelievable antics pulled by the SU-37 pilots. But consider this, the Russian government's main goal is to export the SU-37 and not really use it for itself, so of course they will show exactly everythig its capable of in hopes of selling it. The US has made it clear that it has no plans of exporting the F-22 in the near future. No footage of any modern US fighter showing its true capabilities has ever been shown to the public becuase of plainly obvious reasons.

Also, the SU-37 only has 2D thrust vectoring. The only Russan fighter built with 3D is the Mig-29 OVT, and it puts too much stress on the airframe to be a feasable, reliable combat platform. The Russans themselves have acknowledged this fact as well.

[NEXUX]

Hi Hollywoodvillain (http://www.battlestarforum.com/member.php?u=1110) ,
I am agree some parts of your idea but I have spoken with some American pilots as well and got chance to meet with them because I am in Aviation related job but frankly speaking not agree about this part : "US fighter showing its true capabilities has ever been shown to the public becuase of plainly obvious reasons"

Selling these machines extremly importent for Americans because it is part of the American indst.

All the statistics , the test flights show the results , it is so obvious that Russians really ahead about thrust vectoring tech.

But I heard USAF working on very special project related scram jet fighter at the moment and if it is true means a new concept will change every thing in future.

Scramjets are developed under NASA and Boing if I am not mistaken.

[pagad]

We're getting F-22's at the Royal International Air Tattoo this summer :D