Six of One - 4/11/08

[Shane]

http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/thumb/1/19/4x02_-_Promo_1.jpg/640px-4x02_-_Promo_1.jpg



Streamed online at 12PM EST/9AM PST on http://www.scifi.com
Airs 4/11 at 10PM EST on the SciFi Channel.
Legal Online Viewing (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Six_of_One/Watch)

[The Nubs]

I guess this is Lee getting his feeler from the Government.

[buerger23]

This is gonna be a gooder. Looks like Lee's getting the job he wants. But I'm sure something will go wrong.

[toaster_lover]

the 'opening' Lee alludes to in the last episode, could it be Lauras job?

[The Nubs]

the 'opening' Lee alludes to in the last episode, could it be Lauras job?

I think they will set him up to be the leader. What if he needs to assume the presdiency because laura is unable to continue and he becomes the dying leader. It seems strange that since day one we have known who this is. It makes it to easy to be her since day one and will be a nice little twist. What happens to Zarek then? Does he step down or is he killed?

Also, do you think at some point lee will end up back in the cockpit? I mean he seems to be the indivdual that most symbolizes this has all happened before and it will all happen again. He's a pilot, he's not, he is again, now he's not.

[iheartthesystem]

the 'opening' Lee alludes to in the last episode, could it be Lauras job?
I don't think that they would just give the presidency to Lee. First, wouldn't Zarek be her logical successor and second, wouldn't it be a bit out of character for Lee to simply take the office of the president? I mean he seems to be pretty big on democracy and justice so I would find it a bit odd if he'd just take an office he hadn't officially been elected for.
It's not that I can't see him become leader/President at some point in the future, I think it's just not right now. Maybe Laura Roslin sets him up though to take over her office in case she's too sick to continue. But I think she will try to stay in office as long as she can, even though her health might take a turn for the worse at any time.

As for Lee ending up back in the cockpit: I could see him stepping in whenever there's a huge battle and his experience is needed but I don't think he'll return to regular flight status anytime soon.

[Neakal]

In all honesty, the sheer looks of the promo picture baffles me immensely since after what happened at the trial, Id imagine Roslin wouldn't even want to face Lee let alone set him as her successsor. Although I had the same feeling with regards to Adama and Lee although I can imagine their relationship being slightly fixed due to Lee's role in the battle and finding Kara.

Oh well. We will see. Soon :)

[fr33lancer]

Lee takes on the role of President after Laura's reemergent cancer and because Tom's got a new job as the fith cylon ; ) (Pure speculation)

[Shane]

30 minutes until Stream version is online!

[caprica_six]

This is something I've been hoping for. Yes the trial did set Lee and the Pres back a bit, but I think that Lee would make sense as our new leader and protector. This would make for good character development.

As for Tom Zarek, that would be cool if she had to let him take over, then he was the final cylon! That would be a cool twist since in the following episodes toward the end of the first have has to do alot with Roslin. It makes for a VERY interesting plot line!

I like!!

[ThPrime]

If you get a "stay tuned" picture wait then REFRESH the page, it won't start unless you do!

[positron]

So I tuned in to the stream but I guess my connection is too slow because it's skipping and that's driving me crazy. i watched the intro and then I got out. I'll just catch the full episode tonight, besides my home theatre setup for my TV is better than the sound system setup on my computer anyway. From the intro I can tell it's going to be a great episode yes!

[Shane]

It was great!!!!! Another perfect episode if I say so myself. I'll add the poll closer to airing time for TV.

[ThPrime]

I know that agitated emotional characters are often seen as more dramatic and therefore "better" but still... some of the best performances from Sackhoff, Olmos and McDonnell in the entire series. Not a dry eye in the house for shippers.

And I take back what I said about Roslin. She's dying. She's all business, no nonsense, rational and logical. She won't get any do-overs. She's right. Starbuck's right. Where is this gonna go?!? :thumbsup:

This is like a seamless ten part miniseries that draws on all three seasons as background. Great for us but its gotta be tough on new viewers.

Natalie is one badass Cylon who is all business, no nonsense, rational and logical. I hope her story continues.

[Shane]

Natalie is one badass Cylon who is all business, no nonsense, rational and logical. I hope her story continues.
Agreed! Now she's going some "heavy" metal to go along with her. :D

[Leoben]

This episode was fantastic. I wish we had seen more of the Cylon side of things, but I imagine I wont have to wait too much longer.

Interesting how we learned more of the model numbers today, Cavil's seems to make perfect sense. I imagine we'll see a lot more of Natalie, and her sort of arch enemy will wind up being Boomer.

The scenes with Gaius are priceless too.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

I enjoyed today's episode. I'll definitely be watching it on SFC tonight, since the stream had problems earlier. (I tried doing the 700k stream and it kept on jumping, so I downgraded. That worked like a champ.)

Agreed! Now she's going some "heavy" metal to go along with her. :DNatalie is all business. She reminds me a lot of Number Three, which is where she probably got her inspiration from.

I do have a few nitpicks with the episode, though:

The model numbering scheme is forced... Back in the earlier seasons, the Cylons would refer to themselves mainly by their human names, with the exception of the women and Doral. Now Cavil and the Cylons are referring to themselves as numbers. While clearly a nod to the fans, it's not organic, particularly if you've been watching the series from the get go.

Further, the numbering scheme has a problem: they're going to have to explain why Number Eight is Eight, instead of a Seven. The logical thing to do would've been to leave the "Number One" slot empty (a la "The Prisoner") and have the "Significant Seven" occupy Numbers Two through Eight. That would've been neater and cleaner, even.

Also, why do I have the feeling that the Centurions are eventually going to rebel on the Humanoid Cylons, thanks to Natalie and crew's removal of the inhibitors?

[Leoben]

Oh I think that they will Joe. It plays into the "all this has happened before, and will happen again" mantra. The question is, do they go all out against all of significant 7, or just the 3 that wanted to lobotomize the raiders?

I also think Cavil has become far more interesting as a result of this episode. He is exactly like we were. To eleborate, we created the Cylons for task such as labor/war, etc. We treated them as things/slaves and they fought back as a result. Now here we have Cavil saying something to the affect of "They're machines, I'm a mechanic, I'm just fixing them." He's become a very dangerous entity within the Cylon society. If he can say this about Raiders, what's to stop him from doing so with the other models?

You're right about the numbering thing though. It does seem a little odd, one would think the 7 were numerically linked, but apparently not. Cavil being number 1 though seems to fit to some degree. While they Cylons have no clear leader, he seems to be the most vocal. A driving force, if you will. Leoben as a two is interesting, simply because him and Cavil are polar opposites.

I think the specific numbers at this point have little meaning. It is interesting to see how they fall into place though.

[Shane]

Further, the numbering scheme has a problem: they're going to have to explain why Number Eight is Eight, instead of a Seven. The logical thing to do would've been to leave the "Number One" slot empty (a la "The Prisoner") and have the "Significant Seven" occupy Numbers Two through Eight. That would've been neater and cleaner, even.

You're right about the numbering thing though. It does seem a little odd, one would think the 7 were numerically linked, but apparently not. Cavil being number 1 though seems to fit to some degree. While they Cylons have no clear leader, he seems to be the most vocal. A driving force, if you will. Leoben as a two is interesting, simply because him and Cavil are polar opposites.

Darth said the same thing. Anyway, I think Joe has a point. Maybe "Cavil" wants to be Number 1.....

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Darth said the same thing. Anyway, I think Joe has a point. Maybe "Cavil" wants to be Number 1.....

I'm honored that Lord Vader would agree with me. :D

[Leoben]

On another note, I think the whole Boomer thing is really interesting. Here we have an 8, breaking away from the rest of her line. Seems like we could more individuals showing up with their own unique traits, despite the fact that they are from the same line.

I really want us to send Kara on her quest, and turn the camera on the Cylons more for an episode or two.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Well, Caprica Six broke away from her line as well, so I was a bit peeved when Natalie pointed out that no other Cylon model had done what Boomer did before... which isn't true.

[Leoben]

Well not to the extent Boomer has it doesn't seem. Boomer cast a vote, strangely enough, the tie breaking vote in the choice to lobotomize the raiders.

The truth of the matter is, we don't know to what extent Caprica broke from her line. In the end, the sixes still voted as 1. Caprica accepted the choice, regardless of personal feelings. We don't see this with Boomer, she no longer is accepting the choice of the rest of her line, she feels one way and is going to act on it regardless. So in a sense, Natalie is right.

Also just a little side note to something else Joe said. I think having the model numbers, while odd in the choice, makes sense from a writing standpoint. "The Cavils agree" or the "Leobens agree" doesn't seem to work as well as them having a designation. Just my additional 2 cubits.

Another thought on the numbering. I imagine we know 9-12 at this point, 7 is a number commonly associated with divinity. Perhaps the numbering is more deliberate than we think.

[Shane]

Going to get into numbering after the episodes airs to the masses. :)

[Leoben]

I look forward to it, finding a forum to share ideas about this show has been great so far. But model number 7, my theory about Gaius and the fact he seems to have some sort of divine presence, gives me plenty of things to think about.

[Shane]

You got till 11:01pm to think about it. :) I will post my thoughts then :D

[Leoben]

On a completely unrelated note. Did anyone pick up the Star Trek nod in during Lee's toast?

[Shane]

No. Guess I will have to look for that later tonight.

[Leoben]

It's during his toast just you don't miss it. You might miss it if you aren't familiar with Wrath of Khan and or Nemesis.

Now it's time to go formulate more numbering theories while I wait for it to show again. :P

[ThPrime]

The Sunday night after the strike started last winter, Ron Moore popped in out of the blue to answer several questions (http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2277157&view=findpost&p=4455561) from the mountain piled high in Sci Fi's Q&A with Ron D. Moore thread.


enGal: "Have you any plan to reveal the numbers associated with each humanoid cylons, or do they have a meaning for the rest of the story? If not, can you enlighten us ?"

"The numbers will be mentioned during the season and I think you'll be able to ID each of them. There is one important thing in the numbering."

[Hermes]

That was a great episode. Baltar seeing himself!!! I don't know which was better. His reaction or the reaction of his other. And the Centurians being given free will and then slaughtering the skin jobs that voted to give lobotomies to the Raiders. That was soooo cool.

[JDS]

Way better episode than "Believeth".

I think the single greatest thing was Baltar's Baltar. I wonder, does he have anything to do with Caprica Six's Baltar? Either way, I would happily watch an hour's worth of James Callis talking to James Callis :lol:

The revelation that the Raiders broke off the attack of their own accord, and that the skinjobs do not understand what happened, somewhat makes me feel a little better about that scene. Not completely, but somewhat.

And I'm absolutely fascinated by the revelation that new Centurions are not fundamentally without sentience, but rather are restricted from it. Among other things, this raises questions of how the Cylon race evolved...did the new Centurions arise before the skinjobs, or in parallel to them, and were then restricted by the skinjobs? Or were they created by the skinjobs? If so, did they restrict them only after they discovered that it was advantageous to do so? Or did they do so from the start? If so, then why did they have the capability of sentience in the first place? Was it just in case it might be useful in the future, or did they discover that they could create an intelligence and restrict it, but could not actually create an intelligence without the potential for sentience? And now that they are sentient...will we hear them speak?

Baltar's comments about music are so strange...I think he delivers them the same way he delivers his bullshitting, when he's just making things up at random...and yet, I almost wonder if he knows something, maybe subconsciously without realizing it...

When Roslin finds that her hair is falling out, and just sort of crumbles...I had this sudden feeling that I wanted Adama to just say he's sorry and give her a hug...I must be going soft :lol:

I'm kinda happy to see Lee walking away from Dualla...I never liked them together (maybe I never thought they fit, or maybe I just miss Billy and Dualla...:lol:)

I don't see what Gaius sees in Tory. Of course...he's Gaius. So...yeah.

The Centurions shooting the skinjobs has some very serious implications...specifically because the skinjobs are, with few exceptions (of which we've just seen a few), unanimous within their models. So shooting a single One doesn't really do anything at all...you've still got all the rest of the model that will do, say, and thing the same as the one you just shot (this is all assuming that you prevent him from resurrecting, which would further make it moot, other than being an uncomfortable waste of time). So...do the Centurions plan on wiping out three entire model lines? This would essentially amount to a holocaust at least, and full scale civil war at most, for the Cylons.

[1Nivek1]

Good episode.
I think 2 themes on 2 ships

Gallactica
I think the overall theme was miracles. Those who believe in them (and thusly belive in god/gods). I think we can compartamentalize a few of em.

Believe Don't Don't now (but did b4)
Kara Adm Adama Pres. Laura Roslin
Lee

At the end, Adama gives in not because he believes her, but because he knows he could be wrong. (So the decision is more faith in Kara than GodS)

Cylon Baseship
Two groups (cant remember everyones #), but Stockwell & Boomer wants to dumb down the raiders because the seem to have made a decision on their own and shown free-will. The 6 removes the flux-capacitor from the centurions and they get pissed, blowing everyone up in the room.(Of course, all these antics resemble what they hated about human treatment in the firstplace), and now we have free thinking centurions.

So I think this is the espisode that splits two factions into four, and we'll get plenty of reorganziation out of it (the enemy of my enemy,etc) I think there is still a good bit of tinkering that still needs to happen in Galactica but there was a preview that in the next episode the F4 may let their secrets slip through the cracks.


Civil unrest for both. A couple of side notes I liked:
1)Roslin finally getting thrown off her high horse and pissing off Adama
2)Lee/Kara kiss --I personally thought was a goodbye kiss. (Something tells me Anders will find his way onto her sewage ship)

[Leoben]

The Centurions shooting the skinjobs has some very serious implications...specifically because the skinjobs are, with few exceptions (of which we've just seen a few), unanimous within their models. So shooting a single One doesn't really do anything at all...you've still got all the rest of the model that will do, say, and thing the same as the one you just shot (this is all assuming that you prevent him from resurrecting, which would further make it moot, other than being an uncomfortable waste of time). So...do the Centurions plan on wiping out three entire model lines? This would essentially amount to a holocaust at least, and full scale civil war at most, for the Cylons.

I'm of the same opinion on essentially everything you posted about the episode. I quoted you here though because I think this is exactly what we are going to see. The Cylon, collective if you will, splintering into groups with very different ideas about things should be done.

Baltar's speech about music, combined with the missing model numbers (my bet is stil we don't know #7) just keep piling it on for my theory on good ol' Gaius.

This episode was fantastic, I look forward to seeing much more of the Cylon side of things.

The Trek reference I was referring to was Lee's toast, the final one he makes is "To absent friends" this is the same toast Kirk makes after we lose Spock and the same toast Picard makes after we lost Data. I just thought it was interesting, and a good line to use.

[Jonathan]

While I watched the scene where the Centurions blast #1 and the other skin jobs to bits I was reminded of Fight Club. Perhaps I was the only one but I saw a clear connection, and perhaps this belongs in the philosophy thread because it does relate a little to deconstructionism.

In Fight Club, for those who are not familiar with the film, there is a scene where the Narrator's, played by Ed Norton, apartment burns down. After that happens Tyler Durden tells the Narrator "The things you own, they end up owning you." In the film he's talking about commercialism with IKEA as the main example.

Now I'm getting to the correlation when the centurions murder the skin jobs. The skin jobs treat all the others, raiders etc, like property. At one point #1 says something about them not being pets. So he and the others who voted for "re-assignment" think the raiders/centurions are beneath pets.

To them the raiders/centurions really are like a toaster, a couch, or a doorway. they serve a purpose but they're not worth one's attention beyond deciding how to control and use the object. With the metaphorical blinders removed from the centurion's eyes, i.e. they become enlightened like when adam and eve eat from the tree of knowledge, the centurions i.e. things that are owned now rebel and "own" their owners.

[OldManRivers]

What I was waiting to see from the Chromejobs, was them speaking. In Razor, we witnessed the Guardians speak "By your command". I was waiting for these Centurians to talk, but that may come later. I don't think they'll give the entire models an extinction, but they will definitely do something with them. My thoughts with 8 being 8 has to do with her model switching sides. If we take 7,9,10,11,12 and the Final Five, with Number 7's being the "Final" one of the FF, there would be a purpose for it. The divinity of the number comes as no surprise.

My theory is the final five go back before the SS, somehow. They go back pretty darn far. I'm thinking, before the First Cylon War. But, like programming, things can be changed, memories can be altered, and so there is a lot of backstory to reveal itself. This whole Final Five business is really intriguing me.

Lee Adama, Bill Adama, Kara Thrace, and Laura Roslin were amazing in this episode. Shot on for the actors. As for the "drama" part of this sci-fi series, this episode really shown it. This whole season is turning out to be "How relationships change". The relationships on all sides are becoming strained, or connected, or twisted. Friends are becoming biter, enemies and becoming lovers, etc. So it's all about this relationships and what drives them to do these things. Like Adama and Roslin, oh so fantastic, argument. If I pictured Adama and Roslin arguing, as a friends, and not as power-rivals from season 1 and 2, this is exactly how I would imagine it.

It was quite sad when Roslin cried. I really think we better enjoy her while she's around, because I don't think she's going to be with us forever. (pure speculation...I mean, we know she should probably die, but I'm saying it might be in the next 7 episodes.)

This Demetrius tangent is super beautiful. I really liked Adama on this move. I'm super curious as to who went with. Helo, Boomer, Kara? Who else?

Tori crying was.....odd. Not in a bad way, I just felt so bad for her. Like seriously, Guias Baltar is the scum of the 12 Colonies (and the 13th one too). He's bile, of the most wretched kind. A disgusting frak face.

......and she was forced to sleep with him.


Yeah, this season is turning out to be quite interesting. It's pretty much what I expected from RDM. What I'm hoping wasn't scraped in this "20 episode dash for the end" is the political-intreague we've had in previous season's. I mean, for any DS9 fans, we know how RDM likes to play up the religion aspect of the show. And I don't doubt for a minute he won't play it up for this final season. (Watch, Bill Adama will join the Prophet!!!!!) But, with path archs and episodes from terrorism to mutany to occupation to workers rights to justice, I really enjoyed these topics explored in science fiction connected to real world life. It's one of the reason I enjoy the show. I enjoy this more then I enjoy the "character drama", but that's a taste in show thing.


Spot on people. I'm excited for the rest of the season.




Oh, and I guess we can assume we know how and why Number 3 will be coming back. If the rest know of the Final Five, let's ask the one who was first looking for them. Remember, she seen them!

[positron]

Is the Cylon civil war about to start???? Excellent episode, giving the Centurions back freewill might make for some interesting changes in the Cylon hiercarchy.

[JDS]

after we lost Data.Yes, however I prefer we never speak of that again.

Tori crying was.....odd. Not in a bad way, I just felt so bad for her. Like seriously, Guias Baltar is the scum of the 12 Colonies (and the 13th one too). He's bile, of the most wretched kind. A disgusting frak face.

......and she was forced to sleep with him.I would consider it an honor...hell, even I might sleep with Gaius Baltar :lol:

Yeah, this season is turning out to be quite interesting. It's pretty much what I expected from RDM. What I'm hoping wasn't scraped in this "20 episode dash for the end" is the political-intreague we've had in previous season's. I mean, for any DS9 fans, we know how RDM likes to play up the religion aspect of the show. And I don't doubt for a minute he won't play it up for this final season. (Watch, Bill Adama will join the Prophet!!!!!) But, with path archs and episodes from terrorism to mutany to occupation to workers rights to justice, I really enjoyed these topics explored in science fiction connected to real world life. It's one of the reason I enjoy the show. I enjoy this more then I enjoy the "character drama", but that's a taste in show thing.I think that with Lee leaving for a civilian life in politics, we're almost guaranteed to see more of this, even if only through his eyes.

Oh, and I guess we can assume we know how and why Number 3 will be coming back. If the rest know of the Final Five, let's ask the one who was first looking for them. Remember, she seen them!Mmm, and isn't it delicious that they boxed her because they were worried about her rebelliousness and the trouble she might cause, thus leaving the models susceptible to a deadlock which directly resulted in open rebellion and now maybe civil war?

[TheKid965]

Hi, I'm new here - but I just had to register and say something. But first, a very minor little detail...


The Trek reference I was referring to was Lee's toast, the final one he makes is "To absent friends" this is the same toast Kirk makes after we lose Spock and the same toast Picard makes after we lost Data. I just thought it was interesting, and a good line to use.

This isn't necessarily a Trek reference, though it's probably where most of us (including myself) heard it first. "To absent friends" is a traditional Naval toast, if memory serves the one for Sundays. Trek borrowed it for Kirk's tribute to Spock (and Picard's to Data, though as the earlier poster said I too would rather forget that movie ever happened), and now BSG carries on the tradition.

As to the main event, the "Six of One" episode itself... I'll be honest here. I was just this close [holds fingers about 1cm apart] from giving up on the show; I did not like the direction it seemed to be taking for most of S3, with the whole "who's sleeping with who" business intruding increasingly into the plot, and to say I never got into the New Caprica arc would be a mild understatement. The show had lost my interest, so great during the first two seasons. And when I saw they'd made Tigh and Tyrol Cylons (even ones as apparently different as the Final Five seem to be) I really thought RDM had lost his mind; he was, in my opinion at that time, pulling a desperation move to keep things interesting, logic be damned.

But give me more episodes like "Six of One" (I managed to miss the season premiere and haven't watched it yet) which contains much of why I started watching this show in the first place - tautly-written drama properly balanced with intrigue and mystery, and not dwelling so much on the depressing realities of the Fleet's situation ("Emo," for want of a better term) - and I'll be back in the fold in no time. This was the first time in what seems like forever I've felt good about BSG, and that can only be a good sign for where things are going in S4. That's really all I wanted to say...

Good job, guys. :thumbsup: You may just have won me back over with this one.

[Shane]

Didn't know you left us before... Welcome :)

I didn't care for much of the Planet stuff myself. It was boring.

[Asiriya]

A good episode, fantastic acting from Kara in particular, spoilt only due to the fact that at times I couldn't hear what was being said.
I wonder, with Baltar seeing himself, if Caprica will do the same. I like the idea of Roslin growoing closer to Six, and having a scene with the real and head Six both speaking to Roslin, and there being no distinction between who is speaking.
The Cylon scenes were really great, when they are good they make the show, and I think these did. The implications of letting the Centurions think could be catastrophic. I wonder if Natalie will have considered this, and have only removed the inhibitors from the two she used. Though, this would mean that the Cavils would have time to form their own resistance. If taking control is as easy as getting the Centurions on your side, I wonder why none of the models took the decision to do so. Also, if the programming prevented the SS thinking about the FF, how are they now able to do so and want to find them? Surely any such programming would be designed to deny this.

[Starstruck]

Wow! That was an awesome episode. I agree with those who said it was much better than He That Believeth In Me. So excited about the rest of the season. The Cavils were deliciously evil. I think they may know something about the final five that they don't want the others to know. Gaius on Gaius was brilliant. Kara was believable in her teeth-gnashing pain. Trisha Helfer looks even better with dark blonde hair. :)

Nearly perfect.

[ShadowEnigma]

Talking about stuff people couldn't hear. When Kara was with the president in very beginning, the president said "I wish..." Anyone know what she said right after that?

Yeah, dark blonde hair does look better.

The Cavils definitely know something. Or if not, they know the problems that will arise. Though I don't think they were expecting the Sixes to do what they did. That was crazy to see the Cylons start to splinter.

[positron]

Yeah, strangely enough I had trouble making out some of what was said in this episode also. I'm gonna have to go back and watch again. It's like some of the dialogue or sound was muffled or lower than the background music or sound effects????

[buerger23]

You guys think Model 1 is going to stop the lobotomies after this one? Does this mean the 6's 8's and Leoben's and going to take the top of the command structure. Or will the Centurions and Raiders rebel against all of the skin jobs?

[james968]

The Baltar head Baltar stuff was Hilarious. Especially physical Baltar's reaction. "Oh not another one!" I kept laughing. "Who the frack are you?"

(Though his ascot/neck sweater wrap thing was a little over the top).

Maybe Baltar Head Baltar is his inner Dating Coach, he seems to be giving him dating advice. (Maybe its his libido).

As for Torry sleeping with Baltar I don't think she is doing it b/c she feels ordered to do it. I think she (and all of the WTF) are confused and Baltar with his head Dating Coach was able to get her to want to sleep with him. In one of the previews I seem to remember Tory angrily talking about "God's Will" or something like that, plus the interactions she's had with Baltar, she may join his cult.

I also noticed that the Chief is having to sneak out to his WTF meetings, so it kinda explains why Cally would feel the need to start following him later on.

The numbering of #1 and #2 (Cavil and Leoben) really makes sense. To me it didn't really seem forced. (Though if I was named "Number 1" or "Number 2", I could understand preferring to go by you pseudonym).

I found the Camera Effects on Gallactica's final jump a little annoying. (It just didn't seem right).

When Kara thought she was going to her execution I thought it was really good. (Maybe it resonated so much with me b/c: I just finished reading "Man's search for Meaning (http://www.amazon.com/Mans-Search-Meaning-Viktor-Frankl/dp/080701429X/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208028423&sr=8-1)" one of the pages talks about a reporter interviewing one the guys who organized the Warsaw Ghetto uprising and the reporter called him a hero, he responded (something like) "Any one can shoot a gun, but having to walk into the gas chamber and still doing it with your dignity, that takes a hero")

Why would a Commercial Space Fleet (pre-holocaust) have a Sewage Recycling Ship (equipped with FTL)? (It sounds made up, like in the Simpsons when they are evacuated to the "Laundry Ship" the "Walter Mondale").

Was there a deleted scene of Apollo and Laura making peace (at the Hanger reception, it seemed to skip from Lee/Dual to Lee turning away from LAURA to Dad)?

Could the program directive "Don't think of the Final Five", be a hurdle meant for Cylons to finally/eventual overcome in their progress from being 'just machines' to being something else?

[JDS]

(Though his ascot/neck sweater wrap thing was a little over the top).I think he was making a weak attempt at covering up the gash on his neck.

Why would a Commercial Space Fleet (pre-holocaust) have a Sewage Recycling Ship (equipped with FTL)? (It sounds made up, like in the Simpsons when they are evacuated to the "Laundry Ship" the "Walter Mondale").Yeah, that bothered me too. There must be some explanation for it...maybe it's designed to jump to new settlements and provide sewage recycling until their own facilities are set up?

[Sparrow]

It surelly is/was a sewage ship to tender space stations or deep space non-FTL ships (like those non-FTL botanic cruiser in the mini).. the 12 colonies are enought far appart so it has FTL to jump from one station to base or to another station instad taking days or weeks to do a simply sewage service ..
of course after the attacks, any FTL capable ship would be wellcomed.

Oh BTW.. they are repairing the Space Park..i wonder if those hits decompressed the entire ring or if it is divided to avoid this..
This last option should be the logical one.. its a big glass ring, 1.200m in circurference (380mXpi)wich houses more than 1000 people .. they cant risk killing all for a simply asteroid pucturing a window

[ShadowEnigma]

I find it weird that they are spending the time to repair the space park, but they seem to make no effort to repair any of the external damage to Galactica.

[JDS]

like those non-FTL botanic cruiser in the miniIs it just my imagination, or have we been seeing that ship floating around among the fleet? Every now and again I see big glass domes and I'm like, "WTF, did the botanical cruiser sneak back in???"

Oh BTW.. they are repairing the Space Park..i wonder if those hits decompressed the entire ring or if it is divided to avoid this..
This last option should be the logical one.. its a big glass ring, 1.200m in circurference (380mXpi)wich houses more than 1000 people .. they cant risk killing all for a simply asteroid pucturing a windowYep. I'm quite sure that a big glass ring like that would be built with the expectation that it might be damaged.

Although we keep saying glass...these spaceships probably don't have much glass on their outer hulls, it's probably all lexan.

I find it weird that they are spending the time to repair the space park, but they seem to make no effort to repair any of the external damage to Galactica.I've noticed that. After giving it some thought, I've come to the conclusion that they've probably repaired most of the actual damage on Galactica, but they haven't bothered to really clean it or mess with minor surface damage on thick armor plates.

[ShadowEnigma]

Reasonable theory. Just some spots there looks like to be holes. Maybe they can't really fix some of it.

[positron]

Skinjobs might find themselves on the run just like humanity!

[TheKid965]

Reasonable theory. Just some spots there looks like to be holes. Maybe they can't really fix some of it.

I seem to remember a scene at some point last season where they were assessing the sum total of Galactica's damage over the years, and somebody - Tigh, I think - commented it would take months in dry dock just to repair the damage to the hull. So it would make sense that they haven't done anything for the scarring and hull breaches (some of which date back to the mini). Just patch it up as best you can with what you have, seal off those sections that can't be repaired, and move on.

[JDS]

I wonder if "drydock", in the context of spacecraft, is a structure big enough to enclose a starship and then be pressurized...I mean hey, ships travel in the water and drydock is where they go to be entirely removed from the water for work...starships travel in open space so maybe their drydocks are where you take them "indoors"...

[fr33lancer]

I didn't get a chance to watch it 'till today and thought it was very good.

I got the sense that Boomer was reluctant to admit that she voted with Cavil. I think that he is somehow influencing her or holding something over her.... not sure what it could be but I don't think she was a willing ally to his cause.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

I didn't get a chance to watch it 'till today and thought it was very good.

I got the sense that Boomer was reluctant to admit that she voted with Cavil. I think that he is somehow influencing her or holding something over her.... not sure what it could be but I don't think she was a willing ally to his cause.

I wouldn't be surprised if he threatened to box her... she did try to kill Hera, after all, and permit Athena and Caprica Six to escape.

[james968]

I find it weird that they are spending the time to repair the space park, but they seem to make no effort to repair any of the external damage to Galactica.

I think they have to. (I was wondering what they would do with the Space Park, when I saw the previews (last year showing it getting the ring blown to bits. Actually I expected it to tear itself apart)).

Even though it spins very slowly, it still spins (or used to*). The damage probably knocked it several tons out of balance. It appears to be able to fly, without spinning (which surprises me), but it probably has a very bad affect on the function of the ship (i.e. no gravity, wastes fuel trying to compensate, etc).

* I'm pleased the writers/SEFX people realized it can't spin anymore.

[aylinn]

Frak me. This was a great episode. I actually cried :). Awesome thing with the Cylons and Kara. And Tory is a 100% Cylon. She'll do anything to get an information :D

[Sparrow]

Is it just my imagination, or have we been seeing that ship floating around among the fleet? Every now and again I see big glass domes and I'm like, "WTF, did the botanical cruiser sneak back in???"


Acording to the wiki they are diferent ships.. simply the one we see arround now is a FTL capable one ..the other wasnt.. surelly colonials have botanic cruisers in orbit for some reason and some ones only need to orbit or travel between close colonies or from colony to moons.. and thats why they are nott FTL fitted (less mainteinance efforts) , some others need to travel far and are fitted with FTL



Although we keep saying glass...these spaceships probably don't have much glass on their outer hulls, it's probably all lexan.


Or maybe is transparent-steel .. like in Star Wars or even stronger.. anyway is less strong than the metal the ships are made off


I've noticed that. After giving it some thought, I've come to the conclusion that they've probably repaired most of the actual damage on Galactica, but they haven't bothered to really clean it or mess with minor surface damage on thick armor plates.

Acording to Tight, they would need 6 months on dry-dock to mend the hull damage.. they cant afford that..at elast for now.. and its weird they repair the Space Park.. i mean.. its not like they need that space.. everyone in that ring cuarter section died , up to 1.100 acording to numbers (i wonder as i said if the explosion killed more than the civs in that quarter section).
Maybe its because with a broken ring section it has problems maintaining speed or doing FTL jumps.. surelly it has now problems with rotating the ring.. but its clear that now is the biggest ship apart from Galactica at 1.200m long, its sure the one wich carries more civilians and maybe if something would happen to Galactica, the would be main ship in the fleet to find earth.
I find weird too that now that Cloud-9 is gone why they havent show us any shot or scene taking place in that ring section...
its supposed to contain a small ville with parks and so.. now along with the Botanic cruiser is the only place where anyone can go if wants some open space

[ShadowEnigma]

The Cylons are definitely slowly taking out ships one by one. A war of attrition. I think the Cavils are up to something themselves, or know something that they won't share with the rest. Something maybe that had they told the others this Cylon civil war may have never started.

[JDS]

I think they have to. (I was wondering what they would do with the Space Park, when I saw the previews (last year showing it getting the ring blown to bits. Actually I expected it to tear itself apart)).

Even though it spins very slowly, it still spins (or used to*). The damage probably knocked it several tons out of balance. It appears to be able to fly, without spinning (which surprises me), but it probably has a very bad affect on the function of the ship (i.e. no gravity, wastes fuel trying to compensate, etc).

* I'm pleased the writers/SEFX people realized it can't spin anymore.I seem to remember reading that those ring ships are now equipped with artificial gravity and they only spin slowly as a gimmick, for nostalgia's sake.

Or maybe is transparent-steel .. like in Star Wars or even stronger.. anyway is less strong than the metal the ships are made off"Transparisteel", and Star Trek's "transparent aluminum" always struck me as kinda stupid.

[buerger23]

Question where is Lee going to be going to after leaving Galactica?

I know he will be working for the President but will he be aboard Colonial One and who is going to be CAG oboviously not Starbuck or Apollo but another Flight Lead?

Who is going with Starbuck to go searching for Earth?

CAn't wait till' next week.

[Leoben]

I imagine Anders will be on her search. As for Lee, he said to Kara that Zarek nominated him for the open Quorum of 12 spot, seems like he's going to be a higher up.

I could see Helo as CAG, if only because he was CAG during the trial, and has held other important positions (such as XO).

[JDS]

Psh, Helo's an ECO.

I think Showboat is the senior Viper pilot.

[buerger23]

Ya, but i tend to agree with Leoben on this one Helo will probably be CAG.

Imagine if "Athena" became CAG... What a twist.

[JDS]

It may very well happen, but it's still stupid.

Athena wouldn't work for so many reasons...doesn't have seniority, doesn't have rank, doesn't fly Vipers, and I think there's probably a glass ceiling* to contend with.


*not for women, but rather for people who aren't human

[ShadowEnigma]

Yeah I can't see Athena. It just wouldn't work for many reasons. To upset the Viper Pilots probably isn't a good idea.

[buerger23]

Imagine if "Athena" became CAG... What a twist.

It was a joke. :lol: :) :lol: :p

[Shane]

I see Nacho or Racetrack (God would I love this) be CAG. It make me turn in no matter the episode name. :D Otherwise.. the episode was really well done. Balter on Baltar.. was a total shock to me. Who knew that was going to happen. Watch his face when he first shows up. Looks like he was going to have a heart attack.

[buerger23]

Ya, I love the Baltar on Baltar part as well it's so funny. He actually gets scared for a moment because he used to Six taking to him and usually as he talks to Six he doesn't care if people see him talking to no one but as soon as he is taking to himself (literally) he becomes all insecure and quiet like everybody is watching him.


Racetrack would make a good CAG as well and who said you had to be a Viper pilot to be CAG.

[Leoben]

I like how Baltar just looks at Tory and says "I'm not talking to you" and then goes back to talking to his head self. Brilliant stuff.

You obviously don't have to be a Viper jock to be CAG, seeing as how Helo was stand in for Lee during the trial. We've only seen Viper pilots hold it on a more permanent basis, but I don't think it's a rule.

I'm really curious to see the interaction between Boomer and Cavil though. That should prove an interesting plot thread.

[buerger23]

It will be and I was wondering after Cavil was Staring at an eight dancing around naked are cylons capable of loving each other. I know it hasn't happened but are they capable of it?

[Leoben]

Interesting question, seems that since they are capable of love, they should be capable of loving other models of the S7.

[JDS]

Racetrack would make a good CAG as well and who said you had to be a Viper pilot to be CAG."Alright boss, so what's our plan for taking out these three squadrons of Raiders?"

"Uh...well usually I scan the area with DRADIS, take a lot of photos, and FTL back to Galactica."

"Right, so how are we going to kill the Raiders?"

"Uh...I dunno...you show up...and you go pewpewpew...and they go BOOM! Isn't that how it works?"

"...
...
...
Thanks, boss :rolleyes-green:"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[ShadowEnigma]

I don't think they can love. It was mentioned somewhere on the Caprica arc with Helo and Boomer. They needed to get a human because Cylons couldn't love. They thought that was the missing thing in order to create a child.

[JDS]

I like how Baltar just looks at Tory and says "I'm not talking to you" and then goes back to talking to his head self. Brilliant stuff.That was excellent...people let him get away with SO MUCH weird behavior that anybody else would get called out on :lol:

You obviously don't have to be a Viper jock to be CAG, seeing as how Helo was stand in for Lee during the trial. We've only seen Viper pilots hold it on a more permanent basis, but I don't think it's a rule.Yeah, it's not a rule, but I think it's kinda SOP. Everybody knew that Helo was just for a few days, and they obviously weren't planning any major combat operations.

I'm really curious to see the interaction between Boomer and Cavil though. That should prove an interesting plot thread.Yeah, I can't wait to see that. The topless dancing scene was clearly more than just frustratingly UN-revealing eye candy :lol:

[1Nivek1]

Question where is Lee going to be going to after leaving Galactica?

I think they'll push him in direction of successor to president. But, he's got to "start" as a senator. They are definately playing at Roslin's downfall/demise. And, as for my plans for Lee (5th), it will play better as it will come down to him v father & civilian control over military.


Who is going with Starbuck to go searching for Earth?


I bet Anders.


Are Cylons capable of loving each other?


I would say no. I think this is another reason cylons and humans will unite.

I think totally, this episode split into 4 factions, and those will combine to 3. There will be humans, cylons, and a human/cylon coalition. People will be forced to a decision on "faith" not blood. My theory is Roslin v Lee with the old man hanging in the balance.

[Leoben]

I watched the episode again, and that scene with Boomer (presumably) dancing for Cavil is just all the more strange. There's something between them, I'm very curious what that is.

[JDS]

Told you :thumbsup:

[Neakal]

That was a great episode although feels like too much time was spent of Lee and again, is noone pissed at him for freeing the most hated human in the fleet? Looks like it was all forgotten (how fitting for his speech at the trial). Loved the Basestar sequences. Baltar and Baltar was awesome though at points I got confused which Baltar was talking :lol:

Also, Im curious. Could this be a clue that he is a Cylon? One thing we know that may or may not include for Final Five is that "there are many copies". And the Cylons were the only characters so far that had conversations with "themselves". I know it may be a ruse by RDM just as easily but thought it was odd.

I don't think they can love. It was mentioned somewhere on the Caprica arc with Helo and Boomer. They needed to get a human because Cylons couldn't love. They thought that was the missing thing in order to create a child.

In theory they can love, even eachother. They just can't reproduce with each other. They tried that. Thats why the Farms were created but they did not work so Cylon's theorised love was the essential component hence Athena and Helo. Maybe the whole reason why they can't reproduce with eachother was that they don't feel *that* sort ıf love but I'm not sure.
I think the Cylon's love for eachother is along the lines of siblings. That was most clear to me in "Measure of Salvation" (bad episode as it is) when it showed the Cylons in Galactica.

[james968]

I'm sure lots of cylons have the different hairdos, but the Dancer and Boomer (at the Vote) had the same one. (It doesn't prove any really prove anything, but it point in that direction). (Granted there are millions of Eights with those breasts, and their are only so many hairdos). Cavil's noticing eights breasts might also indicate what he was thinking about.

(There was a Twighlight Zone were everyone had a choice of between a dozen bodies when they reached adolescence, it seemed that since so many people looked like each other, the various individual assumed extreme manerisms to maintain their individuality. I wonder if the individual cylons are do that as well. (The Raven 6, Natalie, Capcrica 6 all have choosen very different hair)).

[thecag]

This is something I've been hoping for. Yes the trial did set Lee and the Pres back a bit, but I think that Lee would make sense as our new leader and protector. This would make for good character development.

As for Tom Zarek, that would be cool if she had to let him take over, then he was the final cylon! That would be a cool twist since in the following episodes toward the end of the first have has to do alot with Roslin. It makes for a VERY interesting plot line!

I like!!

Tom as the last cylon becoming President would be a good twist. I think Lee will get the job though...

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

I don't think they can love. It was mentioned somewhere on the Caprica arc with Helo and Boomer. They needed to get a human because Cylons couldn't love. They thought that was the missing thing in order to create a child.

It's not that they can't love, but they're emotionally immature and don't know how to love. ("Can't" presupposes that they don't have the emotion at all, when we have two examples of this clearly not being the case.) After all, this is a race that's been around for less than a century. We can't reasonably expect them to be emotionally mature at all, since they don't have a sense of cultural identity not defined by their association with their human parents.

Really, in an odd sort of way, the whole Cylons mixing with Humans thing is a bit incestuous. That's another topic, however.

[ShadowEnigma]

That's a good point, between can't and don't know how. I'll agree to that.

I don't know if Lee coming to president will work well for the fleet. Having the Adama's in full power seems like the kind of thing that could hurt the fleet, especially since we know how well father and son work together sometimes. Almost makes the family kinda aristocratic.

[JDS]

Really, in an odd sort of way, the whole Cylons mixing with Humans thing is a bit incestuous. That's another topic, however.I don't think that's entirely a relevant characterization...I mean our concept of "incest", with its negative connations (fetish porn aside), is based on a combination of the dangerous genetic implications and the psychological results of intimate relationships between people with established familial bonds. Neither of those really apply with Cylons and humans.

I don't know if Lee coming to president will work well for the fleet. Having the Adama's in full power seems like the kind of thing that could hurt the fleet, especially since we know how well father and son work together sometimes. Almost makes the family kinda aristocratic.I think Lee Adama would make a good legislator and a bad executive. I'd quite enjoy seeing him in the Quorum of Twelve but hate to see him on Colonial One.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

I don't know if Lee coming to president will work well for the fleet. Having the Adama's in full power seems like the kind of thing that could hurt the fleet, especially since we know how well father and son work together sometimes. Almost makes the family kinda aristocratic.

It would pretty much prove Baltar's point that no one will lead the fleet other than an Adama.

I don't think that's entirely a relevant characterization...I mean our concept of "incest", with its negative connations (fetish porn aside), is based on a combination of the dangerous genetic implications and the psychological results of intimate relationships between people with established familial bonds. Neither of those really apply with Cylons and humans.

As I said, in an "odd" way. True, it's not "incest" as we know it, but its a more transcendent/spiritual form of it. If Cylons are humanity's children, then copulating with humanity is... something else that we haven't really seen before in SF television. (Outside of some anime and SF written works.)

Also, the genetic pool that the Cylons came from... it had human properties, or else they wouldn't be able to mimic humans so damned well. So... freaky, if you think about it.

[Starstruck]

Crazy idea that I haven't thought through yet...

Okay, so what if the Significant 7 aren't really the Significant 7? What if at some point, someone pulled a switcheroo, and that's why Sharon is out of order...she's really more like the five than like the seven. And the final one, that one is like the original S7. Maybe this is what Cavil knows. Maybe this is why Sharon keeps being the odd toaster out.

And that final unknown one who is like the six known cylons? I don't know, maybe it's Baltar after all. Or maybe it's one who has been hidden among the crew, not a sleeper model, all this time, and that's why that one didn't show up at the cylon rally. Maybe that one even caused the Watchtower trigger.

Yes, it's nuts. Poke away at the holes.

[ShadowEnigma]

I think Lee Adama would make a good legislator and a bad executive. I'd quite enjoy seeing him in the Quorum of Twelve but hate to see him on Colonial One.

I'll agree with you there. I think he'll do well in the Quorum of Twelve, if that's where he ends up.

Crazy idea that I haven't thought through yet...

Okay, so what if the Significant 7 aren't really the Significant 7? What if at some point, someone pulled a switcheroo, and that's why Sharon is out of order...she's really more like the five than like the seven. And the final one, that one is like the original S7. Maybe this is what Cavil knows. Maybe this is why Sharon keeps being the odd toaster out.

And that final unknown one who is like the six known cylons? I don't know, maybe it's Baltar after all. Or maybe it's one who has been hidden among the crew, not a sleeper model, all this time, and that's why that one didn't show up at the cylon rally. Maybe that one even caused the Watchtower trigger.

It's interesting, but I wouldn't buy it. I think that's just throwing things out of whack too much. The writers, in my opinion, are going to try to pull together alot of loose ends and story lines, and to do something like that would just make it impossible and corny.

[Neakal]

I don't know if Lee coming to president will work well for the fleet. Having the Adama's in full power seems like the kind of thing that could hurt the fleet, especially since we know how well father and son work together sometimes. Almost makes the family kinda aristocratic.

Well if things go bad he can always ram the Fleet to a Cylon Basestar. Ought to make a bigger explosion than a single Battlestar :lol:

Or just use Colonial One for that matter...

On a more serious note, I agree Joe that it would prove Baltar's point in his book.

[JDS]

Yeah...and who the hell would "pull a switcheroo", and why?

[buerger23]

Ya, this could definetly end badly with one Adama as Admiral and the other on the Quorum of Twelve. One is on the main governing body and the other is in charge of the fleet... Bad Mojo.

[ShadowEnigma]

I think he'll be okay and not cause problems in the Quorum of Twelve, but he definitely shouldn't go any higher up in the government than that.

[Georgiotje]

I would hate to see Lee as a president. I also did not like him as the commander of Pegasus. He is fit to be somebody´s aide, like a XO or something.

[Leoben]

I thought Lee did a decent job as commander of Pegasus. Though I think he's right, he'll be able to make a bigger difference out of the cockpit. He's stepping out of his father's shadow and following his own path. I hope we see more of Lee's new political career, though I'm not sure I could see him as president.

He's still young though, given the time and experience in politics, who knows.

[fr33lancer]

I watched the episode again, and that scene with Boomer (presumably) dancing for Cavil is just all the more strange. There's something between them, I'm very curious what that is.


Ya I thought about that too on the second time around, kind of like she's his....

The other thing that I was wondering about was Starbucks rant about Earth; how she had "felt it on her skin" and a bunch of other adjectives that leads one to believe that she was standing on the planet. I always just assumed she had found the system (I think she described the gas giants in our solar system) and earth and came back. (wormhole or what ever..)

So...... she's ON the Earth but doesn't have any contact with the inhabitants? Either this was a purely spiritual,astral projection, other body experience or she was on a part of the earth that was either unpopulated or no one was home (doubt it)

So was this all in her mind or was she actually there. If she was actually there, was anyone else?

[ShadowEnigma]

Ya I thought about that too on the second time around, kind of like she's his....


It wouldn't be the first time Cavil has had a sort of sexual contact before. Cavil and Tigh's wife on New Caprica.

I don't think she was on the planet. She's given no evidence of actually being on the planet. I think the rant was just to enforce the fact that she was there, and right there. She was just close to it and she knows it exists and wants other people to believe her.

[buerger23]

One idea here could this be the reason she voted against the eights because I don't think it all this righteous crap about her wanting to believe in her own ideals (freedom of thought). There's defineatly something more and my questions to you and what I think Is her reason for voting against her own model is that there is something going on between brother Cavil and Boomer.

[Leoben]

Boomer's experiences have could have potentially made her quite different from other 8s. I'm not so sure Cavil is going as far to manipulate Boomer into voting against her line. I really do believe this is something profound within the Cylon culture. What their relationship is, is difficult to say.

I really think that Boomer is greatly effected by what she's been through. Notice we have no other evidence of sleeper agents like Boomer within the fleet. The rest seem to have knowledge of who they are.

[buerger23]

You could say that but I think I'm going to stick with my own ideas about this one. I'm sure we'll eventually find out.

[Leoben]

I'm sure we will. I'm curious about your theory though. Are you implying Cylons, or at the very least Boomer, don't have freedom of thought?

We don't know how the process of voting really works. There could be a disagreement within the line, it seems the Sixes have exhibited this, but a majority vote wins out in the line too. That's pure speculation though.

[buerger23]

Yes, I am proposing that Cylons a least the skin jobs have freedom of though. Take this for example when the Caprica decides to help Athena take her baby off the Basestar, when Athena marries Helo and becomes a officer in the Colonial fleet of her own free will and the final 5 although they have yet to be proven to be absolute Cylons if you catch what I'm trying to say. There is many examples of this if you watch closely.

[JDS]

I thought Lee did a decent job as commander of Pegasus.He did a great job on the day he took over from Garner.

After that, all he did was get fat and break the shiniest toy in the Fleet.

The other thing that I was wondering about was Starbucks rant about Earth; how she had "felt it on her skin" and a bunch of other adjectives that leads one to believe that she was standing on the planet. I always just assumed she had found the system (I think she described the gas giants in our solar system) and earth and came back. (wormhole or what ever..)

So...... she's ON the Earth but doesn't have any contact with the inhabitants? Either this was a purely spiritual,astral projection, other body experience or she was on a part of the earth that was either unpopulated or no one was home (doubt it)

So was this all in her mind or was she actually there. If she was actually there, was anyone else?The whole Kara Thrace thing is just too weird to touch right now.

We don't know how the process of voting really works. There could be a disagreement within the line, it seems the Sixes have exhibited this, but a majority vote wins out in the line too. That's pure speculation though.This brings to mind another question I've been meaning to ask for a few days...

[buerger23]

This brings to mind another question I've been meaning to ask for a few days...

Which is?

[Leoben]

He did a great job on the day he took over from Garner.

After that, all he did was get fat and break the shiniest toy in the Fleet.

The whole Kara Thrace thing is just too weird to touch right now.

This brings to mind another question I've been meaning to ask for a few days...

He did waver a little during the 3 months away from New Caprica. I thought the Pegasus rescue scene was great, though I'm not sure it was totally necessary.

As for the question, you must share, the suspense is too great!

[james968]

Originally Posted by Leoben
I thought Lee did a decent job as commander of Pegasus.

Its kinda like "Zack was the best pilot, I've ever seen. Until he screwed the pooch"

[Leoben]

I still think he did a good job. Compared to the other commanders Pegasus had following Cain's death, the guy was amazing. Lee was a good commander in my view, sure he made mistakes, but so has Bill. You make them, and you live with them, as they say in the show.

[james968]

In my opinion Boomer is pretty lost and alone. She was about to kill Hera before her 'best friend' snapped her neck. I'm guessing that while she was undercover she had a boyfriend or interested colleagues the whole time.

One the Male side of the equation:

Cavil has bitten the 'forbidden fruit' and had a women into him. (Ellen although she was acting, but she apparently was a good actress and good in bed (the twist/swirl (?)). Plus he is the leader (at least of 'used car salesman' and Simon))++. He is driven ++

The used car salesman....... probably has never even had sex. Plus he is a follower.

Simon is suave, but he is a follower and (as their Doctor) he couldn't seem to solve Hera's illness, so he probably lost point there as well.

Leoben... he's off in his own world listening to Hybrid, pining for Kara (is he still?), and his idea of 'forbidden thoughts' is.... 'thinking about the final five'.

So doing the math:

Boomer + Cavil is the only matchup that seems likely.

(Plus he made the crack about 8's breasts)

Had Ellen not introduced Cavil to Sex, he might not have gotten.... distracted

[Georgiotje]

I still think he did a good job. Compared to the other commanders Pegasus had following Cain's death, the guy was amazing. Lee was a good commander in my view, sure he made mistakes, but so has Bill. You make them, and you live with them, as they say in the show.

But still, he's not really the Commander-type. People like Cain, Shaw, even Tigh if he wasn't such a retard. You have to show them respect. You see their pride when they're in command. Not a fat kid like Lee who got a Battlestar from his daddy.

[Osprey]

lee's handling of a stick, his keeping the air group together through trials that would have destroyed lesser leaders, and yes, his command of the beast, albeit for only a few actual engagements, all speak to his being a good commanding officer and imo speak well towards his being a good president, or at the very least a good quorum member. this is clearly a storyline that will be with us throughout the series ...

[buerger23]

No, I still don't think it would be a good idea for Lee to president because if his father is the admiral and they get in another fight it could divide the fleet which would leave easy pickings for the Cylons. So it's fine if he's a quorum member but he shouldn't be president it would be too risky for the fleet.

[Osprey]

fair enough; that is kinda why my present ideal is for lee to remain on the quorum and tom take the presidency should laura have to step down -- which feeds into my "tom is the final" latest theory!

[buerger23]

I think he's too minor a character to be a Cylon especially the FFifth but this isn't the place to talk about this anyways... but... no not the place. I just can't wait for the episode I want to see how Lee copes with his new position.

[OldManRivers]

I think Lee was a good commander. He has natural leadership abilities and talent and working as head of Pegasus was a good job well done. I highly doubt he will be set up as "President". Quorum of Twelve, I like. But I have no thought in my mind that they are setting him up for "President of the Twelve Colonies".

I do expect to see more of the quorum, which should be cool.

[1Nivek1]

lee's handling of a stick, his keeping the air group together through trials that would have destroyed lesser leaders, and yes, his command of the beast, albeit for only a few actual engagements, all speak to his being a good commanding officer and imo speak well towards his being a good president, or at the very least a good quorum member. this is clearly a storyline that will be with us throughout the series ...

The conventional wisdom on a good president is a strong leader. The other quality is a good speaker. You forgot to add that he in a single "speech" he reversed people's view on Baltar.


No, I still don't think it would be a good idea for Lee to president because if his father is the admiral and they get in another fight it could divide the fleet which would leave easy pickings for the Cylons. So it's fine if he's a quorum member but he shouldn't be president it would be too risky for the fleet.


Well, this is exactly why I think he'll end up in the seat. It would add to the drama; especially the whole "civilian control" storyline that the writers were so addicted to in S1.

It's possible that Lee will end up VP to Zarek, but my bet will is Zarek would get killed by someone from his shady past, etc.

Either way, I think Lee will end up in the chair.

[buerger23]

The conventional wisdom on a good president is a strong leader. The other quality is a good speaker. You forgot to add that he in a single "speech" he reversed people's view on Baltar.

But throughout this speak he wasn't entirely confident. He seemed to like he stuttered his way though the speak but w/e. I guess I doesn't really matter who's right or wrong we'll find out on Friday.

[JDS]

A lot of you seem to be equating a good Quorum member with a good President. A legislator is essentially different from an executive. Remember what Bill said to Lee, about not being willing to do things if he wouldn't be able to face Lee the next day? (Somebody even has it in a signature). Lee serves as a sort of conscience, which makes him an excellent legislator...their job is basically to set the tone of what we agree is right and wrong. However, he's too much of a whiny little girl to be a President, who is an executive and therefore needs to kick ass and take names...something we all know Laura is quite comfortable doing.

One the Male side of the equation:

Cavil has bitten the 'forbidden fruit' and had a women into him. (Ellen although she was acting, but she apparently was a good actress and good in bed (the twist/swirl (?)). Plus he is the leader (at least of 'used car salesman' and Simon))++. He is driven ++

The used car salesman....... probably has never even had sex. Plus he is a follower.

Simon is suave, but he is a follower and (as their Doctor) he couldn't seem to solve Hera's illness, so he probably lost point there as well.

Leoben... he's off in his own world listening to Hybrid, pining for Kara (is he still?), and his idea of 'forbidden thoughts' is.... 'thinking about the final five'.

So doing the math:

Boomer + Cavil is the only matchup that seems likely.

(Plus he made the crack about 8's breasts)

Had Ellen not introduced Cavil to Sex, he might not have gotten.... distractedJust because we haven't seen much of what the Cylons do among themselves doesn't mean that they don't all have sexual relationships with each other...all we know is that they can't successfully reproduce.

[Osprey]

"Somebody even has it in a signature"

only 'cause y'all had taken a bunch of good lines already!
:-)

seriously tho, i've always felt that not only was that one of the key lines from razor, but it also shows some insight into how bill lives his life and how he's trying to re-build his relationship with lee ...