My Theory - Gaius = Christ

[kozew]

Hello there.


I am new to this forum so I'm not sure whether this is the right place for my post.

My theory is that Gaius is going to end as Christ. I believe all of you noticed the similarities b/n Jesus and Gaius ( Gaius' pose while he was daydreaming and his looks through the entire episode ) in the newest series.
I also made some calculations.
The third tribe left approximately 4000 years before the current moment in the series (see *1 and *2 ). If the 13th tribe had found the Earth "immediately"( 200-300 years ) after they left , this means that BSG should arrive on Earth sometime around the zero year.
According to the Jewish and early christian calendars (*3), the creation year is believed to be in the end of the 4th century BC - the time when I think the 13th tribe had arrived on Earth.

As you see my theory is based mainly on the similarities between Gaius and Christ, the 4000 years between the arrival of the 13th Tr. and BSG on Earth, and that the Earth in the series is "our" Earth :). Though there is a big hole which has to be filled - is the time difference really 4000 years?
The probe which the cylons found is 3000 years old, so was it placed there on the way to Earth or sometime after the Earth was colonized?


Many people think that BSG is going to arrive on Earth in our time ( year 2000 - 2010 ). If we look 4000 years back we will see that nothing special happened then (*4), and I believe the arrival of the 13th tribe should had been something really noticeable.


Any comment is highly appreciated ;).



----------------
*1 The Thirteenth Tribe left Kobol and its sister tribes some 2,000 years before the remaining tribes left to form the Twelve Colonies of Kobol (The Eye of Jupiter).
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Tribe_%28RDM%29
*2 Approximately 2,000 years prior to the Fall of the Twelve Colonies, the last twelve tribes of Kobol leave their plane
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Colonies_%28RDM%29
*3 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_Mundi
*4 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_BC

[ShadowEnigma]

Interesting theory. There has been a lot of debate on this, and how the series should end. Check out some of the other threads if you get the chance.

Oh and welcome to the forums! You did in fact post in the right place, and you can have a cookie, compliments of me (you just have to go out and buy it yourself). If you have any problems/questions feel free to message myself or any of the other mods/admins.

[NormanDoering]

I seriously hope they don't do that!
I've got my own speculations on my blog:
http://normdoering.blogspot.com/2008/04/why-new-battlestar-galactica-is-more.html

[GaetaGirl]

My husband and I have started to think the same way. Especially after Baltar gets out of jail and tells his followers that they are perfect just as they are.

[toaster_lover]

but Jesus didnt teach us that we were perfect

[Leroy Morte]

He's supposed to be seen as a messianic figure, in the mold of Christ, but I seriously doubt they have him be Christ when he gets to Earth. Besides, that's so cheesy, if they did do that, I'd never watch another episode, lol.

[Gougef]

I am pretty sure that in the last few days I read that RDM said that Baltar is not "the" Christ.

Looking and will post the article when (maybe if :-) ) I find it.

[Dzonatas]

I think it is in the podcast for He That Believeth. RDM allows the coincidence, but he doesn't affirm it.

[Proxenus]

While it looks like the producers want us to think that, Gaius Baltar's current religion is actually the opposite of the teaching of Jesus of Nazareth.

Baltar's teachings are essentially an extension of his personal activities. He made the statement that everyone is perfect. An obvious extension of that assertion is that everything they do is perfect. Thus, there is no reason for improvement or self-assessment.

Jesus, on the other hand, reaffirms that people must seek redemption. "Go forth and sin no more" is his command. People must still strive to be better.

[Jason1975]

While it looks like the producers want us to think that, Gaius Baltar's current religion is actually the opposite of the teaching of Jesus of Nazareth.

Baltar's teachings are essentially an extension of his personal activities. He made the statement that everyone is perfect. An obvious extension of that assertion is that everything they do is perfect. Thus, there is no reason for improvement or self-assessment.

Jesus, on the other hand, reaffirms that people must seek redemption. "Go forth and sin no more" is his command. People must still strive to be better.

I agree. Maybe Baltar is not Christ but the Anti-Christ. Ever since he speak about being perfect, I have this unsettling feeling about him.

[Starstruck]

I agree. Maybe Baltar is not Christ but the Anti-Christ. Ever since he speak about being perfect, I have this unsettling feeling about him.


Ding ding ding! I do not see Baltar's religion as being the force that unites them all. I think it will be found to be highly suspect before it's over.

[OldManRivers]

RDM said in the podcast for the first episode that it wasn't intentional that Baltar be this "Jesus" figure. They never wrote it for him to be a Jesus, it just started coming off that way, although, he does like it. He said something to that affect.

[pagad]

I'm pretty sure Christ wasn't responsible for the deaths of 20 billion people.

On a serious note, if the show ends revealing that "OMG Gaius is Jesus!" I'm retroactively declaring BSG crap and never watching it again.

Gaius is much more insidious, anyway. Teaching people that they are "perfect" rarely leads to a happy ending (Nazi Germany anyone?)

[Leroy Morte]

"On a serious note, if the show ends revealing that "OMG Gaius is Jesus!" I'm retroactively declaring BSG crap and never watching it again. "

AMEN, brother!!!!!!!!!

[timbo]

Baltar doesn´t have a religion, he has a message. His message is there is more to this life than can be seen by the naked eye, and that there is a power in the universe that we can´t even begin to understand. His talk of being perfect is probably more about ending our modern epidemics - self-hatred and low self esteem, than "you are perfect, you can do what you want without any consequences." Also, he isn´t saying the aryan / anglo saxons are perfect, he is saying everyone is, so the Hitler comparison is absurd.

[pagad]

Baltar doesn´t have a religion, he has a message. His message is there is more to this life than can be seen by the naked eye, and that there is a power in the universe that we can´t even begin to understand. His talk of being perfect is probably more about ending our modern epidemics - self-hatred and low self esteem, than "you are perfect, you can do what you want without any consequences." Also, he isn´t saying the aryan / anglo saxons are perfect, he is saying everyone is, so the Hitler comparison is absurd.

He's preaching narcissim. Love yourself, because you are perfect. That can only lead to bad things. People who believe they are perfect rarely become enlightened, only arrogant and decadent.

Daaamn, BSG is good TV. You don't get this kind of debate from anything else out there.

[Proxenus]

Heh. Friedrich Nietzsche, here we come.

[Dzonatas]

People who believe they are perfect rarely become enlightened, only arrogant and decadent.

Being decadent would be an acknowledgment of being not perfect -- decayed in some aspect. Maybe something simple like sinister would be more appropriate word. One who believes one-self is perfect then seeks to perfect others. Then. moves to be overly narcissistic... destroys imperfections.

[timbo]

Most of the posts in this thread have taken one line, "you are perfect", misinterpreted it, and then used bad opinions of Baltar, based on his past behaviour, to discredit what he is saying. Baltar has been gradually broken through his various trials and ordeals (a lot of which he has brought on himself). Most of us are broken in some way, and I think he is saying "you are perfect" in your brokenness, because now, you are open to whatever may be out there.

Most modern respected scientists would probably say "yeah, I believe there are powers at work in the universe that we cant even begin to understand", which is really the essence of what Baltar is saying, not the perfect thing. I think humanity has a innate fear of the things we don´t understand, and this fear impels us to destroy these things.

This is a quote from my favourite book. I have used it before but I think it fits here.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation"
- Herbert Spenser

[Starstruck]

The perfectness and the fact that past sins don't matter is the core of Baltar's message, along with that there is only one true God. Remember that Tory said this to him, and he rejected it violently, but then got arrested, released, beat up, and then gave a speech espousing it.

Tory was speaking of herself as perfect in the throes of her newfound cylon-ness, and I was unclear whether she meant that the cylons, the final five, or all beings are perfect, but her statement about perfection is where this idea came from. I don't see it as an innocent idea at all.


Most of the posts in this thread have taken one line, "you are perfect", misinterpreted it, and then used bad opinions of Baltar, based on his past behaviour, to discredit what he is saying. Baltar has been gradually broken through his various trials and ordeals (a lot of which he has brought on himself). Most of us are broken in some way, and I think he is saying "you are perfect" in your brokenness, because now, you are open to whatever may be out there.

Most modern respected scientists would probably say "yeah, I believe there are powers at work in the universe that we cant even begin to understand", which is really the essence of what Baltar is saying, not the perfect thing. I think humanity has a innate fear of the things we don´t understand, and this fear impels us to destroy these things.

This is a quote from my favourite book. I have used it before but I think it fits here.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation"
- Herbert Spenser

[Proxenus]

Most of the posts in this thread have taken one line, "you are perfect", misinterpreted it, and then used bad opinions of Baltar, based on his past behaviour, to discredit what he is saying. Baltar has been gradually broken through his various trials and ordeals (a lot of which he has brought on himself). Most of us are broken in some way, and I think he is saying "you are perfect" in your brokenness, because now, you are open to whatever may be out there.

Most modern respected scientists would probably say "yeah, I believe there are powers at work in the universe that we cant even begin to understand", which is really the essence of what Baltar is saying, not the perfect thing. I think humanity has a innate fear of the things we don´t understand, and this fear impels us to destroy these things.

This is a quote from my favourite book. I have used it before but I think it fits here.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation"
- Herbert Spenser

Of course people are looking at his past actions to discredit his current statements. Baltar becoming a spritual leader is like David Duke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Duke) becoming a civil rights champion. Sure, it's possible, but it'll take a lot more than just saying pretty words to convince anyone.

Also, keep in mind his actions immediately after he was found "not guilty." He expressed glee that he got off, but disappointment that Lee Adama did not "stick it" to President Roslin more. At least to me, it appeared that he didn't learn anything from his ordeals. He still expressed an attitude of complete narcissism and no moral conscious. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he has even expressed remorse regarding his actions on New Caprica (except how it related to him).

In short, Baltar is of low moral character.

Regarding your quote, I think it is misplaced. Many of us have looked at Gauis Baltar. Overall, his actions show his character. He game a woman he didn't even know access to the Colony Defense Mainframe. The fact that he did not know she was a Cylon is irrelevant. She could have easily been a terrorist or a rebel. He actively collaborated with the Cylons and did nothing to help the resistance. He hid the results of Sharon Valerii being a Cylon which eventually led to the assassination attempt on Commander Adama (no, he is not responsible, but he could have prevented it).

He is a villain, not in the traditional meaning of the word, like the original Baltar (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Baltar_%28TOS%29), but a more subtle villain. He sows deceit and rebellion wherever he goes.

[Dzonatas]

Baltar rocks! lol

I don't get the Christ like attitude from him.

I see someone being like "omg, they believe this... well ok.. i can play that..."

he's a playa

he played the humans
he played the cylons

he's got a unique position that both side can't figure him out
it adds to the story

[Inki]

Well, I am not fully certain that BSG would be heading towards a biblical link to our earth.

However, if it were, I would consider John the Baptist as a more fitting role for Baltar. Especially considering that Jesus has a biblical childhood history, Baltar is too old already, and his religious thoughts would need some refinement.

This scenario would also allow Hera and/or Nicky to have roles as Mary and/or Joseph. Furthermore, it would nor degrade Jesus in a way that some people might find offensive (though I personally wouldn't care).

[5th Cylon]

Baltar doesn´t have a religion, he has a message. His message is there is more to this life than can be seen by the naked eye, and that there is a power in the universe that we can´t even begin to understand. His talk of being perfect is probably more about ending our modern epidemics - self-hatred and low self esteem, than "you are perfect, you can do what you want without any consequences." Also, he isn´t saying the aryan / anglo saxons are perfect, he is saying everyone is, so the Hitler comparison is absurd.


I posted this in another thread but i think it's the case that sometimes the Messanger gets mistaken for the Message. While i see the point of his message, some people are looking beyond it to much making him more then he really is.

Now question is will people look at Baltar when all is said and done as a Baltar(eccentric genius who had a nice message), Jesuslike (ie god) figure or Moseslike (ie prophet from god) figure?

As somebody who is agnostic i do hope he ends up as a "Godlike" figure in the end because it echos my opinion of any religous belief system(ie that 1 person had good intentions at first then when they die the people who like the message so much made them out to be more then they are)

[genji2000]

The current position of Baltar's story arc is intended to revisit how a monotheistic religion is tolerated by an open polytheistic society, and how that religion gains support and grows to the point where it is big enough to stamp out polytheism in name of a jealous, vengeful and intolerant god, branding 'pagans' as heretics and burning them all. It remains to be seen whether Baltar advocates this or not. I'm sure Jesus Christ would not have advocated the Spanish Inquisition.

Baltar has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. It's about the political rise of monotheism against polytheism.

[jabedoben]

Does anyone see the possible connection between Baltar's teachings and the Cylon religion?

A machine, like a Cylon, would be considered by many to be 'perfect'.

Go back and revisit some of the things that Head Six told Baltar about the Cylon's 'one true God'.

Perhaps what is happening with Baltar is the beginning of the Cylon religion or the attempt to actually create a 'perfect being'.

Remember, this has all happened before, and will all happen again.

[Leroy Morte]

If it was the biginning of the cylon religion, then the cylons wouldn't already practice or believe in this religion.

[genji2000]

Does anyone see the possible connection between Baltar's teachings and the Cylon religion?

A machine, like a Cylon, would be considered by many to be 'perfect'.

Go back and revisit some of the things that Head Six told Baltar about the Cylon's 'one true God'.

Perhaps what is happening with Baltar is the beginning of the Cylon religion or the attempt to actually create a 'perfect being'.

Remember, this has all happened before, and will all happen again.

Er... well, yeah... I think it was in 33 that Baltar repented - effectively (if duplicitously) accepting the one true (Cylon) god. Baltar's monotheistic preaching is entirely based on Inner Six's indoctrination. I'm not saying James Callis or the writers have convinced me that Baltar believes, but his message is obviously the Cylon message. That's totally clear isn't it? Or have I missed something?

[timbo]

Er... well, yeah... I think it was in 33 that Baltar repented - effectively (if duplicitously) accepting the one true (Cylon) god. Baltar's monotheistic preaching is entirely based on Inner Six's indoctrination. I'm not saying James Callis or the writers have convinced me that Baltar believes, but his message is obviously the Cylon message. That's totally clear isn't it? Or have I missed something?


I don´t think Baltar´s message is the cylon message at all. I think he felt something beyond human or cylon understanding when he finally began to face himself and his actions. Around the time of his trial, he seemed to start being a bit more honest with himself. Although he wouldnt take responsibility for the attrocities of New Caprica, he later spoke of having done unspeakable things. I am not completely sure, but he has me more or less convinced that he believes his message.

[genji2000]

I don´t think Baltar´s message is the cylon message at all. I think he felt something beyond human or cylon understanding when he finally began to face himself and his actions. Around the time of his trial, he seemed to start being a bit more honest with himself. Although he wouldnt take responsibility for the attrocities of New Caprica, he later spoke of having done unspeakable things. I am not completely sure, but he has me more or less convinced that he believes his message.

Well, maybe that's right. Maybe I'm seeing it in black-and-white, polytheism = humans, monotheism = Cylons. Perhaps Baltar has found his own one true god, but then again that's what Caprica Six always told him to do - to forge his own relationship with god. Within the confines of the show I think it's still the same god, the god that a Cylon introduced him to. We haven't heard many tenets of Cylon faith but "be fruitful and multiply" was one. I don't think Baltar has espoused that foundation of faith yet, so perhaps you're right.

[Tzipporah]

Hmmm.

If I may stick my nugget-head into this discussion for a moment...

I do not think that they are going to try to set up a perfect Baltar=Christ equation. THough I am fairly certain that at some point (though, to be fair, he has already shown self-sacrifice once) he will give his life to save someone else, whether an individual or more than one. I have ADD (rather severe) so forgive me if my points of proof don't seem to follow logically from one another.

--The

[Proxenus]

Does anyone see the possible connection between Baltar's teachings and the Cylon religion?

A machine, like a Cylon, would be considered by many to be 'perfect'.

Go back and revisit some of the things that Head Six told Baltar about the Cylon's 'one true God'.

Perhaps what is happening with Baltar is the beginning of the Cylon religion or the attempt to actually create a 'perfect being'.

Remember, this has all happened before, and will all happen again.

If you watch Flesh & Bone (Episode 1.08), Leoben uses many of the same terms that Baltar uses. He talks about how he sees things in a river or stream as people go by.

I thought it was pretty clear that Baltar was preaching the Cylon religion.

[Tzipporah]

(Sorry, I can't get the text size to be anything but too large or too small). This started out as a somewhat shorter reply to the topic, and then it turned out that I had timed out, didn't see the login right, so I kept pressing the button without actually logging in, and lost my ability to log in for 15 minutes. So, while waiting I begin to rewrite this. It is REALLY long. Please forgive me, skim what you want to out of it, and feel free to skip the rest!

I do not think that Baltar's character is as simple as a strict one to one equation between Gaius/Symbol and Christ/symbol's meaning. Though that kind of symbol use (as in Hawthorne's Scarlet Letter has come in and out of vogue in the literary world, I find that the literary (I guess I use this word to mean writing of most sorts, including plays and television episodes) trend right now leans towards invoking a number of symbolic possibilities and similarities.

First of all, I'd like to start with his name, Gaius. Though it appears that the name might have some historical significance (sorry, I'm not terribly familiar with Roman history, save for the little tidbit I'm about to introduce) above and beyond this, I understand that Roman wedding vows involved saying, "Where you are Gaius, I then and there am Gaia" (and vice versa for the other gender). Clearly, then, if that is the case, Gaius and Gaia were archetypal male/female figures in a sexual relationship of some sort. Given the many scenes of physical intimacy between Gaius and Six, it seems likely that at least for Baltar as he is in the beginning of his journey (that we see on the show), they are trying to evoke these pagan archetypes. It is an interesting choice to evoke these archetypes with Gaius, especially since he begins the show as what I'd call a rational materialist. He doesn't acknowledge anything that he cannot materially prove, and ridicules anyone who might.

As he begins his journey, he is very, very self-serving. When he knows his world is in danger he doesn't move to try to send out a warning, he doesn't begin plans of how to help others if he survives the attack. He is immediately concerned with his own survival. First, before he realizes that there won't be enough left for an active investigation into his culpability, instead of warning his own people (or trying to) he calls his lawyer, and then when he realizes that the call is futile, he begins to try to guilt Six into giving up what he assumes are her escape plans so that he can escape too.

We see a little bit of another side of him, when he overcomes his temptation to secure his spot on the flight off of Caprica by claiming the lady's ticket as his own, but this overcoming of his selfish side, pretty much disappears until he's threatened at gunpoint to sign the execution papers. Though he does sign, the fact that he first refuses and struggles against it is much more than he would have done, say, in the first season. Through most of the series, he is concerned with number one.

These things to me clearly suggest that they are not going for a pure representation of Jesus. First of all, perfectly sinless people are rather boring, as saintly as they may be, and they don't make good fiction. Christ had faith in God the Father from the beginning (sorry, I am Christian and I can't help the caps), He had the ability to put His own desires aside and serve others from the beginning.

Though for whatever reason they have invoked a couple of easy references to Christ with Gaius--including his rather cruciform posture at the beginning of his water hallucination and the unshaven/long-haired "Swedish Jesus" look (what my family refers to the Caucasian rendering of him in so many paintings with lambs and little children--his actual journey seems much more on the order of Paul (or shall I say, Saul) on the road to Damascus, or Moses, all who were imperfect people who did and were still doing imperfect things, yet still served the will of God. Gaius may have shared a simple upbringing with Christ (if his conversation with Tyrol can be believed), however, his repudiation of that background and his continuing love of the spotlight, womanizing, and ego swings him too far off course to be a Jesus figure (in my opinion).

Gaius has proven a change within himself, a conversion possibly (though definitely imperfect) when he asks God to take his life and save the child's. I expect that Gaius will probably die to save someone, but I don't think that necessarily proves that he was Christ (unless he not only bears the sins of others, but expiates them through his sacrifice, and thus restores everyone's (not going here into a discussion of whether Cylons are included in that, though I rather think that they are) I, myself, cannot buy him as an actual symbol of Christ.

Furthermore, Gaius has no more power (save intellectually) than anyone else. He is fully humanoid (to cover the possibility that he might be Cylon) and only so. His faith is certainly imperfect. I think I might start a separate Theology of Gaius thread which I hope won't be considered to similar to this one, because the subjects aren't necessarily the same. I respect where those of you who think he is such a symbol are coming from, and I think there might be shades of it, but I don't think that we can categorically say for certain (though it is quite possible that I'll be proven wrong!)

Also, I think the writers, directors, and producers, are savvy enough to avoid common Christ stereotypes (like the Swedish Jesus issue) if they did want to take the show in that direction. If they were to do such a thing, I think that it would be a Cylon who chose to die for humans, I don't think that the individual would be Caucasian or even look much the stereotypical American image found on so many depictions of him with lambs and little children because they want to continually shock, surprise, and twist our brains around in knots.

[Tzipporah]

To respond to the above, I would posit that Baltar would actually be seen by many Cylons as blashpheming the Cylon religion. He declared humans to be perfect, which would be a major blaspheme to the Cylons who still believe that their God-given mission is to wipe out imperfect humans and replace them with their perfect selves (how many of them still believe that is up for grabs, but he doesn't seem to be toeing the Cylon party line, either.

[genji2000]

To respond to the above, I would posit that Baltar would actually be seen by many Cylons as blashpheming the Cylon religion. He declared humans to be perfect, which would be a major blaspheme to the Cylons who still believe that their God-given mission is to wipe out imperfect humans and replace them with their perfect selves (how many of them still believe that is up for grabs, but he doesn't seem to be toeing the Cylon party line, either.

The Cylons have split. Half of the active models are searching for Earth, searching for home, searching for God. If Three can be unboxed it wouldn't take much for D'Anna and Caprica Six to push Baltar as the first pope.

The Sixes, Fives and Eights are the ones questioning whether the attck on the Colonies was right, and whether the pursuit of the colonial fleet was right. Their god-given mission isn't to wipe out the human race, but to usher in the the new children.

[Tzipporah]

I know, that is why I said many, and not all.

Isn't it ironic that the cylons who started out so sure of their own perfection are experiencing the same sorts of conflicts, disagreements, and imperfections that they first condemned us humans for.

[BaltarstarGalactica]

I hope they don't crucify Gaius.

[genji2000]

Is the title of this thread actually an equation?

[Pnutmaster]

I don't know, but it is the most relevant thread for my future Baltar-centric post. :)

[ThPrime]

Is the title of this thread actually an equation?

I dunno. But if you reorder the equation to

My Theory = Christ + Gaius

it begins to be interesting. Look who is standing in the pole position, the catbird place at the table, in the Last Supper ad. Is that just strategic hot chick advertising composition or is it meant to convey something?

In the beginning, Caprica Six sacrificed her life to save Baltar in the miniseries. She downloaded but still, it was a nice gesture. As we see later, dying a violent death is a painful and traumatic experience for Cylons.

Near the end, by saving Baltar's life, Roslin egotistically expected she earned humanity's right to survive, after she changed her mind about killing him.

Saving the fragile body of Gaius frakking Baltar, guardian and protector of god's new generation, has always been a central theme. What is Head Six is another. Whatever you think her to be, she is psychologically or cybernetically part of Gaius, and he is part of her.

[genji2000]

Is that just strategic hot chick advertising composition or is it meant to convey something?

Who cares when...

She downloaded but still, it was a nice gesture...

...we now have this observation?

[The Dirt]

Here's my theory:

Gaia = Greek for Earth Goddess
Gaius = A follower of the Earth Goddess (a man of the Earth)

Adama = ancient Hebrew for earth
Adam = man that was created from earth

Eve = the first woman, came from Adam

So, if you carry the 5, then Eve = Caprica Six

Gaius + Caprica Six = the progenitors of the human race

[Bruce]

I'm not sure Jesus would have knobbed Xena though.

[The Dirt]

Hey, even the son of God has needs. Plus, the ladies dig the long hair and rock hard abs.

[genji2000]

I'm not so sure Xena would have allowed herself to be knobbed by Jesus. He's only the son of some god or other.

[BSGfan-atic]

With his preaching that people are perfect as they are, and his own narcissism, I am sure that Gaius will end up becoming a therapist in the recreated California, telling the new Brittney Spears and Lindsay Lohan that they really aren't f---ed up bimbos, they are serious artists with temporary issues.

Seriously, though. I think that what was said about Adama suffering the most at the end of the series, and The Dirt's post about Adama = earth, I can see the human-cylon combined fleet starting a new civilization through some supreme sacrifice by Bill Adama. A man who has served in the military as long as he has will be used to sacrifice. Gaius would play some role, perhaps as a kind of prophet (John the Baptist, for example, as mentioned previously).

[genji2000]

With his preaching that people are perfect as they are, and his own narcissism, I am sure that Gaius will end up becoming a therapist in the recreated California, telling the new Brittney Spears and Lindsay Lohan that they really aren't f---ed up bimbos, they are serious artists with temporary issues.

Seriously, though. I think that what was said about Adama suffering the most at the end of the series, and The Dirt's post about Adama = earth,

That was Aurora, I think. The Dirt just paints fey pictures of himself.

I can see the human-cylon combined fleet starting a new civilization through some supreme sacrifice by Bill Adama. A man who has served in the military as long as he has will be used to sacrifice. Gaius would play some role, perhaps as a kind of prophet (John the Baptist, for example, as mentioned previously).

Or maybe they'll come up with some shit about the Final Five not being Cylons after all (like they were were created thousands of years before CYbernetic Life-fOrm Nodes were created a few years prior to the Cylon War, which is what Cylons are) but being some earlier form of robot that is somehow different to Cylons.

[DJBonebrake]

through all of the poly/mono theism conflicts in the show, it's clear that at the least Gaius is inspired by jesus

but is he fullfilling the actual role of jesus? is monotheism a good thing?

1st episode of the series (excluding the miniseries ) is the infamous "33"... caly said... "why is it every 33 minutes? why isn't it 50?"

jesus died at 33

on new caprica they tried taking baltar out during the swearing in of the police force...

33 dead not gaius

last supper photo... look at the real painting by davinci... that color that jesus is wearing... that orange shall.... very similar to gaius when he is released from the brig after the trial, when he's being introduced to his herd...

*edit all along the watchtower is unofficially associated with jesus's parable of the servants...
I won't go into deciphering RL religions... but it's another connection.. look up the parable and see if it applies

the whole opera house... head six, gaius, and hera.... trinity...
feel like there's something missing here...

could this space jesus really be "bad" at the end? would they really go out and compare a religious icon of such RL magnitude to the end of mankind?

even for the show that took the argueably 2 most "hated" chars and made them gay (I enjoyed both Gaeta and Kain tremendously, to me so bad that you liked them) such a comparison would be extremely contreversial

lets say those 3 survive... might be enough of a gene pool to start anew...


I'm sure there could be other evidence to back this all up that escapes me...

either way love to hear some input

[genji2000]

lets say those 3 survive... might be enough of a gene pool to start anew...

I think it takes about 150 completely (genetically) different humans to start anew.

[DJBonebrake]

I think it takes about 150 completely (genetically) different humans to start anew.

6 is a cylon, hera is a hybrid.... I don't know the science behind the 150 genitcally different humans... I find it hard to believe you could even find 150 completely "genetically different" humans...

many if not most "purebred dogs" share the same lineage... essentially are related... that's how they keep them "purebred".... blah blah

in any event I don't see the relevance in the 150 figure

[genji2000]

Hmm... maybe I should have said "unrelated (to a number of degrees)" reather than "genetically". I think you're right about that. 150 is a number that sticks in my head. I will try to research it. In any case, I don't three is enough.

EDIT: OK I'm bored of looking now. The best I could come up with is "is oral sex immoral?" and "I believe that gay people have evolved into existence because the earth is becoming over populated - evidence: Boy George" so you can scratch that unless someone else can find something worthwhile.

[Prolescum]

through all of the poly/mono theism conflicts in the show, it's clear that at the least Gaius is inspired by jesus
Agreed.
but is he fullfilling the actual role of jesus?Observably not. is monotheism a good thing?I doubt if many could answer that.

1st episode of the series (excluding the miniseries ) is the infamous "33"... caly said... "why is it every 33 minutes? why isn't it 50?"

jesus died at 33
clutching at straws in the wind.
on new caprica they tried taking baltar out during the swearing in of the police force...
one straw left...
33 dead not gaiusIt's there if you want to see it, but so are faces in sand.

last supper photo... look at the real painting by davinci... that color that jesus is wearing... that orange shall.... very similar to gaius when he is released from the brig after the trial, when he's being introduced to his herd...Isn't herd the pejorative term for flock? The last supper is a teaser to get us waffling and interested during the off-season.

*edit all along the watchtower is unofficially associated with jesus's parable of the servants...That last straw just blew away.
I won't go into deciphering RL religions... but it's another connection.. look up the parable and see if it applies
Don't need to, it's not relevant. Gaius is supposed to be messianic, and who better to emulate than the most famous of them.
the whole opera house... head six, gaius, and hera.... trinity...
feel like there's something missing here...A valid theory?

could this space jesus really be "bad" at the end? would they really go out and compare a religious icon of such RL magnitude to the end of mankind?
No, like a Cylon, you're projecting.
even for the show that took the argueably 2 most "hated" chars and made them gay (I enjoyed both Gaeta and Kain tremendously, to me so bad that you liked them) such a comparison would be extremely contreversial
What? I can't even think of a response to that without being insulting.
lets say those 3 survive... might be enough of a gene pool to start anew...
I suggest you read some non-fiction, mate.

I'm sure there could be other evidence to back this all up that escapes me...There isn't any to find except a casual familiarity with our own civilisation.

either way love to hear some input
There you go. :thumbsup:

[Batman316]

Genji-I think it takes about 150 completely (genetically) different humans to start anew. DJ-in any event I don't see the relevance in the 150 figure Did you even look it up? or are you just assuming you are right and Genji is wrong? despite him implying that he only 'thinks it's about 150'

You can't stick with theories if they have no basis in fact. Even if Genji is a little off and it takes 100 people you really should atleast consider it.

I'm not a smart man but I know that trying to begin anew with 3 survivors and you will end up with double headed tasmanian toasters....

*edit all along the watchtower is unofficially associated with jesus's parable of the servants...unofficially?..... unofficially anything can mean well anything. Unofficially Kurt Cobain was inspired to write his music because of his second string relationship with Elvis's housemaid.... I would give you a link but I just made that one up. How about a link to your source?

and instead of looking into hidden meanings, try taking stuff at face value.

Hell how could you not mention him being "The chosen one by God" It seems to me that that little line might end up being important in your theory.

*Prolescum posted just before I did so I may have to edit....

[ghettohobbit2]

i think somethihng has been missed here...

jesus is self sacrificial,

gaius is the exact oppisite. people keep having to be sacrificed (like helo in the pilot and thousands of others) to keep him alive

it's like bruce willis and samuel l jackson in unbreakable... they're oppisites, but they're on the same curve, giving them similar traits

[blackjedi47]

Warning to the faithful; there is a debunking of mythic elements going on here. The statement/question,"any revelations of mythic proportions," answered with a drunken smiling,"nope" by Tigh says more than a little. Yes, the comparative overlay with Gauis as Jesus and Ellen as the Jealous God (c'mon, you have to admit that one), a lot of debunking of any grandiosity. so don't expect far flung overblown outcomes in the plot line. Things are getting slimier and more primal, " is this stuff alive?" Yes, wasn't that the initial question asked by the very first 6?
Ah.
Sofar Sogood
:thumbsup:!

[DJBonebrake]

clutching at straws in the wind.one straw left...It's there if you want to see it, but so are faces in sand.
Isn't herd the pejorative term for flock? The last supper is a teaser to get us waffling and interested during the off-season.
That last straw just blew away.Don't need to, it's not relevant. Gaius is supposed to be messianic, and who better to emulate than the most famous of them.A valid theory?


There you go. :thumbsup:

ok, I guess it's difficult to convey a cheekiness that the post had in my mind.... I obviously don't believe the number 33 cements Baltarchrist superstar... it's something I noticed
little things sprinkled in to jesus it up..

as far as flock goes... when I was writing it I was thinking "herd or flock" and thought since jesus as a shepherd made it more sensible to use that term... you're projecting but yeah maybe you're right refering to a group of women as a group of birds... like chicken heads is less insulting. ;)

I'm terrible at using this board and can't grasp multi quotes... but the gaeta/cain .. 2 gay chars argueably amongst the most despised good chars on the show is just another thing I noticed.... an unintended backhand by the writers


batman... I wasn't giving genji a hard time, and I think in his response he understood how I read it... I know what he's saying...
but when I say "whats the relevance?" it's more like...

we're talking about inter-species reproduction, our understanding of science might not apply... as it (believe it or not) doesn't always apply in a science fiction show

like 3 beings starting a brand new civilization is soo rediculious, but starbuck being better than anders in pyramid schemeball is believeable?!

--edit
the parable of the tenants... not servants.. that's the name of it...I've read it myself have my own idea of how it fits with the song... but since giving you a link ... in the internet will give it ....validity ...here is 1 interpretation

http://www.stmatthewsnoho.org/Sue%20Sermons/2005_10_02.htm

[Prolescum]

ok, I guess it's difficult to convey a cheekiness that the post had in my mind....No worries, dude. I obviously don't believe the number 33 cements Baltarchrist superstar... it's something I noticed
little things sprinkled in to jesus it up..Like I said, I agree that we are supposed to understand his role with visual cues.

as far as flock goes... when I was writing it I was thinking "herd or flock" and thought since jesus as a shepherd made it more sensible to use that term... However, it can be assumed you were referring to 'the herd', as in the proles or the masses instead of 'flock' the term usually applied to followers of the Christ. I know you didn't mean it, I just wanted to point it out...
you're projecting but yeah maybe you're right refering to a group of women as a group of birds... like chicken heads is less insulting. ;)
Who does that, then? I can't remember reading or saying that.
I'm terrible at using this board and can't grasp multi quotes... but the gaeta/cain .. 2 gay chars argueably amongst the most despised good chars on the show is just another thing I noticed.... an unintended backhand by the writers
I don't agree with that, Gaeta was liked until an episode or two ago. You wouldn't even know about his sexuality if you hadn't seen the webisodes.

As for quote tags, [*quote] stuff [*/quote] without the asterisks. If you want to add a name, use [quote=Prolescum] first.

[Batman316]

starbuck being better than anders in pyramid schemeball is believeable?!What? you never let a chick beat you to get into her pants?

As for quote tags, [*quote] stuff [*/quote] without the asterisks. If you want to add a name, use [quote=Prolescum] first.

hehehe you learn something new every day ;)...... but somehow I screwed that one up lol

[Prolescum]

He's got you there, dude.

[DJBonebrake]

However, it can be assumed you were referring to 'the herd', as in the proles or the masses instead of 'flock' the term usually applied to followers of the Christ. I know you didn't mean it, I just wanted to point it out...
Who does that, then? I can't remember reading or saying that.I don't agree with that, Gaeta was liked until an episode or two ago. You wouldn't even know about his sexuality if you hadn't seen the webisodes.

As for quote tags, [*quote] stuff [*/quote] without the asterisks. If you want to add a name, use *** first.

I'll work on the quotes, thanks for the input... I'm not good with the touchpad but in the future with the mouse hooked up I'll do that... the individual quotes does look much better

it was just funny with the flock/herd thing because I did honestly take it into consideration while posting... flock to me is just a group of birds... that's why it made me think flock-chicken heads...
is chicken head still used as a term for "skanks"? 90s term...

I can't go back in time, and since I only recently posted here... honestly have no reason to lie... I (a couple friends as well) had thought Cain and Gaeta were gay before seeing the razor or the webisodes...
for whatever reason these weren't huge surprises.... you're right though... Gaeta was liked, I did enjoy the whole paradox in him being a traitor or spy from within new caprica... overall maybe the best complete secondary (even though you could consider him main) char in the show...

What? you never let a chick beat you to get into her pants?

you know what, the starbuck-anders match really bothered me.... but your point does make a lot of sense

[Prolescum]

However, it can be assumed you were referring to 'the herd', as in the proles or the masses instead of 'flock' the term usually applied to followers of the Christ. I know you didn't mean it, I just wanted to point it out...
Who does that, then? I can't remember reading or saying that.I don't agree with that, Gaeta was liked until an episode or two ago. You wouldn't even know about his sexuality if you hadn't seen the webisodes.

As for quote tags, [*quote] stuff [*/quote] without the asterisks. If you want to add a name, use *** first.

I'll work on the quotes, thanks for the input... I'm not good with the touchpad but in the future with the mouse hooked up I'll do that... the individual quotes does look much better
No worries, I'm here to help with that sort of stuff.
it was just funny with the flock/herd thing because I did honestly take it into consideration while posting... flock to me is just a group of birds... that's why it made me think flock-chicken heads...
is chicken head still used as a term for "skanks"? 90s term...
Sorry, man. That went straight over my head at the time...
I can't go back in time, and since I only recently posted here... honestly have no reason to lie... I (a couple friends as well) had thought Cain and Gaeta were gay before seeing the razor or the webisodes...You're not the only one, many presumed Gaeta had a liking for the lads...
for whatever reason these weren't huge surprises.... you're right though... Gaeta was liked, I did enjoy the whole paradox in him being a traitor or spy from within new caprica... overall maybe the best complete secondary (even though you could consider him main) char in the show...
Agreed. I never much cared for him, though.
What? you never let a chick beat you to get into her pants?

you know what, the starbuck-anders match really bothered me.... but your point does make a lot of senselol

[skooma]

33 is a song on "Mellon-Collie and the Infinite Sadness" by The Smashing Pumpkins.

Bill Corgan is a Cylon.

[Ranger Wolf]

Given the recent events in "Deadlock," I think that Baltar might be heading for a fall. Paula looks like she's got some seriously evil machinations going on in her head. With just one or two supporters from Baltar's flock, she could really pull it off. Either she wants to run the operation herself, or she's planning a massive hit on the Sons of Ares. Whatever the case, looks like there's going to be blood.

[skooma]

Given the recent events in "Deadlock," I think that Baltar might be heading for a fall. Paula looks like she's got some seriously evil machinations going on in her head. With just one or two supporters from Baltar's flock, she could really pull it off. Either she wants to run the operation herself, or she's planning a massive hit on the Sons of Ares. Whatever the case, looks like there's going to be blood.

Are they evil?

[Jeff O'Connor]

Virtual Six has put Gaius Baltar through ups and downs, science, politics and ultimately religion, put him through this entire journey; I doubt he's just going to crumble beneath the Sons of Ares.

There's a destiny for him now, too, and we're finally about to see it. Whether the writers had an idea of what that destiny was earlier on in the series or not, it's coming. Paulla's potential machinations aren't likely to have anything to do with where he's headed, in my opinion.

[meels]

My roommate had the same theory and actually asked James Callis about it...he said he saw Gaius as more of a John the Baptist figure....and also some Hindu god whose name I can't remember but had a lot of sex.

[Prolescum]

Hello meels. Grab a seat and feel free to introduce yourself here (http://battlestarforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=50), and if you'd like to meet a few of the other forumites, you can find some here. (http://battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=1577&highlight=thread-me-do)

I think Baltar's more of a lothario than a John The Baptist personally.

[Jeff O'Connor]

33 is a song on "Mellon-Collie and the Infinite Sadness" by The Smashing Pumpkins.

Bill Corgan is a Cylon.

Missed that before.

I lol'd.

[Prolescum]

Me too, I love that record...

[UrsusArctos]

Wouldn't know which Hindu God he's referring to, but Baltar as John the Baptist is an intriguing idea. That does leave the question as to who Gaius will "Baptize" so as to speak. Apollo, maybe?

(OT- I like my John the Baptist seven feet tall, in iridescent green armor, and bashing, blasting and shooting Covenant forces)

[whoosh]

In the latest episode, I count Gaius' followers to number 12 or 13 (didn't manage to get a clear look with them all lined up). Including an obvious Judas type character.

[Prolescum]

There are more than 12 or 13 in every other episode.
Gaius is more like Mick Hucknall than Jesus of Nazareth.

[whoosh]

There are more than 12 or 13 in every other episode.
Gaius is more like Mick Hucknall than Jesus of Nazareth.

I wasn't asking about other episodes. How many does he have now?

[genji2000]

There must be dozens because there was an outcry when Roslin restricted public gatherings to twelve people.

[Prolescum]

I wasn't asking about other episodes.
You didn't ask anything.

[timbo]

Gaius isnt Jesus. Jesus was probably a deeply spritual person, one of those special people that come along from time to time with the ability to communicate spiritual ideas and what they should mean to us. Baltar is a sort of everyman mix of good and bad, and weak and strong, and I think in the show he represents a sort of general human possibility to overcome the darker side of ourselves and undergo some sort of transformation. Baltar is me.

[Prolescum]

Baltar is meUntil someone makes you angry. We wouldn't like you when you're angry; you become The Incredible Elosha.

[weedkiller]

Baltar is a sort of everyman mix of good and bad, and weak and strong, and I think in the show he represents a sort of general human possibility to overcome the darker side of ourselves and undergo some sort of transformation. Baltar is me.


Let's recap

Baltar, the bad:
Integral part in the killing of billions
Gave a known cylon a nuclear weapon (killing an addition 10,000+)
Killed Crashdown with a bullet to the head
Always thinks of self preservation before species preservation
Signed the death warrants of humans on New Carprica

Baltar, the good:
He feels really, really guilty and we should love him for his failings.


Maybe I hold a grudge, but Baltar soooo needs to die.

[genji2000]

Let's recap

Baltar, the bad:
Integral part in the killing of billions
Gave a known cylon a nuclear weapon (killing an addition 10,000+)
Always thinks of self preservation before species preservation
Signed the death warrants of humans on New Carprica

Baltar, the good:
He feels really, really guilty and we should love him for his failings.
Killed Crashdown with a bullet to the head

Fixed.

[blackjedi47]

Yes, Baltar has to die. We know it we feel it it has to happen. The Ram symbol PS wears is Baltar's symbol and the sheep symbol let's us know somebody's going to get sacrificed. It's the sheep element that puts Baltar in the Christ mold not anything particularly special about his person. He is being set up by special forces to be sacrificed. Everyone we want to die eventually kicks the bucket except for Baltar. We want it so very very bad, but having to wait for it, that's Baltar's special nature.

[Hofner1962]

Let's recap

Baltar, the bad:
Integral part in the killing of billions
Gave a known cylon a nuclear weapon (killing an addition 10,000+)
Killed Crashdown with a bullet to the head
Always thinks of self preservation before species preservation
Signed the death warrants of humans on New Carprica

Baltar, the good:
He feels really, really guilty and we should love him for his failings.


Maybe I hold a grudge, but Baltar soooo needs to die.

I really can't agree with most of this.

Baltar, the good: He feels really, really guilty and we should love him for his failings. It is good that he feels guilty. Maybe we shouldn't love him for his failings, but we should understand them. Most of us act in a self interested manner every single day without a second thought.

Baltar, the bad: Killed Crashdown with a bullet to the head
Arguably in doing so he saved all of their lives on the planet (besides Crashdown's for obvious reasons) and the lives of everyone in the Raptors. Crashdown's plan was suicide - it would not have accomplished getting rid of the missile battery or any other strategic objective. After that he helped Chief take out the dradis dish with Centurions shooting at them.

Baltar, the bad: Signed the death warrants of humans on New Carprica Do you honestly believe that if he hadn't signed it the cylons wouldn't have killed those people anyway. Cavil was talking about reducing the human population to something manageable - like 1000.

Baltar, the bad: Always thinks of self preservation before species preservation
Granted, Baltar is not particularly brave and both of the above acts were also for his self preservation - which by the way we are all hard wired for. People will sometimes trade their life for that of a child or other loved one, but there are very few people that aren't military trained who would put themselves in front of a bullet for a stranger. Even less who would willingly add themselves tot he pile of dead bodies knowing that their gesture would not change the outcome and the others would die anyway - which is what would have happened in both of the above scenarios. Not sacrifice for another but voluntarily throwing ones life away with no change in outcome.

Baltar, the bad: Integral part in the killing of billions He isn't bad because billions died. You can argue he is bad because he let a hot piece of ass talk him out of state secrets. Yes, he bears some responsibility for what happened, not all - I think the cylons bear a bit of responsibility in the whole holocaust thing and the military who provoked them as well.

Baltar, the bad: Gave a known cylon a nuclear weapon (killing an addition 10,000+) Yep - bad bad bad bad bad.

Baltar, the ugly: I'm surprised that you didn't bring up settling on New Caprica which I think is actually one of his worst mistakes. He used it as his platform for the sole purpose of gaining power knowing that it really wasn't viable for the long term. (Though I am still puzzled why they settled in the mud/sand flats and not in the pretty mountains with fresh water) This really was an instance of him putting his own desires in front of the welfare of everyone else. Sadly, it is more than a little reminiscent of our leaders today.

Baltar, the ugly: Keeping Boomer and any other cylon tests a secret for his own purposes. He did this so as not to be a potential target, but it put the whole fleet at risk since he had no idea what programming/missions potential cylon agents had. After lying to Boomer so as not to have his neck snapped, it certainly would have been easy for him to go to Adama and tell him in private. The fact that there weren't other S7 cylon plants in the fleet by that time doesn't diminish the severity of the action.

Baltar, the ugly: Using Doral as a scape goat to direct suspicion away from himself and having him marooned on Ragnar Anchorage. That he was a cylon does not matter, he didn't know that and sacrificed an "innocent" for his own position.

That said, I do love Baltar. Yes, he says and does what he needs to stay alive and comfortable. How many people have said "insincere" things to women to get them into bed? How many people have lied on a resume or made their existing experience seem more substantial in order to land a job?

[timbo]

Let's recap

Baltar, the bad:
Integral part in the killing of billions
Gave a known cylon a nuclear weapon (killing an addition 10,000+)
Killed Crashdown with a bullet to the head
Always thinks of self preservation before species preservation
Signed the death warrants of humans on New Carprica

Baltar, the good:
He feels really, really guilty and we should love him for his failings.


Maybe I hold a grudge, but Baltar soooo needs to die.

Scary stuff weedkiller. Maybe you can cast the first stone.

I lent the pilot movie to loads of people. Almost to a man, they are hooked. One of them is asking me when to watch Razor, and I cant rmrmber - can someone tell me.
Thanks

[Prolescum]

In it's proper place, Timbo.
End of season three.

[Hofner1962]

In it's proper place, Timbo.
End of season three.

There is a season, turn, turn, turn

[Pnutmaster]

Gaius isnt Jesus. Jesus was probably a deeply spritual person, one of those special people that come along from time to time with the ability to communicate spiritual ideas and what they should mean to us.

I swear, I thought you were describing yourself.

Jesus is me.

What humility cannot bring itself to say.

[Batman316]

Gave a known cylon a nuclear weapon (killing an addition 10,000+)

Should be noted that ANY BLOKE would do the same to get into Trisha's pants.....

[thevarrior]

Should be noted that ANY BLOKE would do the same to get into Trisha's pants.....

I'd settle for something on the order of TNT, mate...

[timbo]

In it's proper place, Timbo.
End of season three.

Thanks dude. .........and y´know, this recent experience has been pretty cool, like its not just me. I lent the pilot movie in spanish to about ten different people/couples, young and old, and more than half are hooked now.

I really can't agree with most of this.

It is good that he feels guilty. Maybe we shouldn't love him for his failings, but we should understand them. Most of us act in a self interested manner every single day without a second thought.


Arguably in doing so he saved all of their lives on the planet (besides Crashdown's for obvious reasons) and the lives of everyone in the Raptors. Crashdown's plan was suicide - it would not have accomplished getting rid of the missile battery or any other strategic objective. After that he helped Chief take out the dradis dish with Centurions shooting at them.

Do you honestly believe that if he hadn't signed it the cylons wouldn't have killed those people anyway. Cavil was talking about reducing the human population to something manageable - like 1000.


Granted, Baltar is not particularly brave and both of the above acts were also for his self preservation - which by the way we are all hard wired for. People will sometimes trade their life for that of a child or other loved one, but there are very few people that aren't military trained who would put themselves in front of a bullet for a stranger. Even less who would willingly add themselves tot he pile of dead bodies knowing that their gesture would not change the outcome and the others would die anyway - which is what would have happened in both of the above scenarios. Not sacrifice for another but voluntarily throwing ones life away with no change in outcome.

He isn't bad because billions died. You can argue he is bad because he let a hot piece of ass talk him out of state secrets. Yes, he bears some responsibility for what happened, not all - I think the cylons bear a bit of responsibility in the whole holocaust thing and the military who provoked them as well.

Yep - bad bad bad bad bad.

Baltar, the ugly: I'm surprised that you didn't bring up settling on New Caprica which I think is actually one of his worst mistakes. He used it as his platform for the sole purpose of gaining power knowing that it really wasn't viable for the long term. (Though I am still puzzled why they settled in the mud/sand flats and not in the pretty mountains with fresh water) This really was an instance of him putting his own desires in front of the welfare of everyone else. Sadly, it is more than a little reminiscent of our leaders today.

Baltar, the ugly: Keeping Boomer and any other cylon tests a secret for his own purposes. He did this so as not to be a potential target, but it put the whole fleet at risk since he had no idea what programming/missions potential cylon agents had. After lying to Boomer so as not to have his neck snapped, it certainly would have been easy for him to go to Adama and tell him in private. The fact that there weren't other S7 cylon plants in the fleet by that time doesn't diminish the severity of the action.

Baltar, the ugly: Using Doral as a scape goat to direct suspicion away from himself and having him marooned on Ragnar Anchorage. That he was a cylon does not matter, he didn't know that and sacrificed an "innocent" for his own position.

That said, I do love Baltar. Yes, he says and does what he needs to stay alive and comfortable. How many people have said "insincere" things to women to get them into bed? How many people have lied on a resume or made their existing experience seem more substantial in order to land a job?

I agree with all of this. The only thing that really jars is the giving of the bomb to whatshername, and I think this was bad writing. I dont think he would have done that.

[Prolescum]

He was still thinking with his willy at the time, I think.