He That Believeth In Me - 4/4/08

[Shane]

http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/thumb/7/75/4x01_-_Promo_1.jpg/300px-4x01_-_Promo_1.jpg


Airs 4/4 on the SciFi Channel at 10pm EDT/9pm CST. First episode of Season 4.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Ok, the episode guide is up for "He That Believeth In Me". Content from the last 15 minutes of it will be posted on Battlestar Wiki after 12:01 P.M. today.

In the meantime, read at your own peril (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/He_That_Believeth_In_Me). :D

[OrionFour]

I just wanted to express just how excited I am about tonight! It's been exactly 375 days, 14 hours and 17 minutes since the Crossroads, Part II, and the wait has been excruciating every day. Having a viewing party tonight with some of my friends if anyone is in the Austin area. :D

[Shane]

I been watching it live on the stream. It's fraking great!

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

An update: The last two acts have been added to the Wiki's episode guide (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/He_That_Believeth_In_Me)!

Also, it's streaming live on SciFi Channel. Here's the link to the high resolution version (http://www.scifi.com/700k.html).

[OrionFour]

I'm saving it for tonight. I'd rather watch it for the first time on my tv with my surround sound than my laptop.

[The Nubs]

I thought it was great. The only bad part about it was people kept on knocking on my office door needing to talk to me. Don't they know I'm watching BSG? I'll watch it again this weekend to catch the parts I missed.

[Shane]

After watching the episode in it's entirely, I must admit... I loved every second of it. Six's new look, Baltar's Cult Girls, and the great battle at the start. The graphics looks just as good as the commercial for Iron Man.

The episode for me left me more questions than answers, as Joe's review pointed out, but still this was a killer episode. For sure not a stand alone episode. That "To be continued" at the end really threw me off and that last part was crazy!!@!@!@


Kara Thrace pointing a gun a Roslin. :eek:

[buerger23]

I'm saving it for tonight. Besides I can't watch SciFi stream because I'm
Canadian "Eh".

[ShadowEnigma]

Silly Canadian :lol:

[Dwyn2435]

I love Baltar right now.

[DrWho42]

An update: The last two acts have been added to the Wiki's episode guide (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/He_That_Believeth_In_Me)!

Also, it's streaming live on SciFi Channel. Here's the link to the high resolution version (http://www.scifi.com/700k.html).The video doesn't play with a notice stating: "Can not create DirectShow Player". :(

Anywhere I could download this for free or just torrent it?

[JDS]

I now know EXACTLY what is going to happen to Baltar!

After the events of this episode, his ego will now grow at a geometric rate until, in the final episode, his head simply explodes.

[ShadowEnigma]

This season seems to have gotten off onto a very good start. They certainly opened it with enough ways stories and sub-stories can go. And to make it all the better, that frakkin' cliff hanger was good.

[1Nivek1]

Still think my last cylon choice is correct. The whole conversation between Lee and Father ("what if Zak came back in that viper?...Would you love him any less?"), was just begging the ("What if I was a Cylon Dad??? Would you no longer love me? .... Dad? ............. Dad? <airlock starts to beep:lol:>

I think they're going to go with a wormhole on Kara's travel to Earth (I DO HOPE, it doesn't come through the black storm on Jupiter...but I have a feeling it might (Eye of Jupiter)). Time dilation would make her reference frame 20 min vs 2 months for the others. However, a new viper is going into metaphysics if you ask me, but I'm sure the writers could play that card.

So, can't say it surprised me any.....EXCEPT,

Baltar's coven !!!! Can't tell you how much I love this actor/character/plotline. Pure entertainment (I'm thinking of making that Baltar shrine my new desktop)

Also interesting was some possible allusions to a little of my superimposed picture (See "insane conspiracy theory") nonsense with the following:

#1)Kara will fall in love with Sam...NOT Lee

#2)Roslin will end up on the wrong side of the tracks when the gates fall.

[positron]

I requested off work this Friday so I could stay home and watch the premiere and it was well worth the year long wait! This was an excellent start to the season. Two things, I found myself feeling sympathy for Baltar and I don't trust this "second coming of Starbuck"! I still remember that hybrid telling that soldier in Razor that she was "the harbinger of death!":thumbsup:

Ever since I saw "The Farm" and the Cylons did some slicin' and dicin' on Starbuck, I always thought that wasn't the end of it. What did they take and what were they planning to do with it? DNA goes a long way. Baltar went from a duped collaborator on the miniseries to a ally on season 1 with his efforts to create a Cylon detector to a hated traitor in season 3. I think he's going to redeem himself in season 4 somehow. Go from someone who almost destroyed his entire race to someone who saves it! Oh and what was he in season 2, a politician...need I say more!:p

[timbo]

I totally agree about Baltar. One of the big themes of the show has been the spiritual transformation thing. Noone would embody this better than Baltar. Remember that fantastic Baltar praying scene - first begging, then angry, then promising, negotiating and finally accepting, well he made that promise that if He would save him now,he would dedicate his life to doing God´s will. He is probably going to be held to that promise.

[Asiriya]

Hmm, I loved the episode, slightly worried that they've poured half their FX budget into the first ten minutes but by gosh, it was worth it. I'm slightly annoyed that it ended where it did, the time really did fly by. it's quite obvious that Laura won't be shot so I found that unnecessary.
I'm liking how they are involving the new cylons, subtle, and not so much at different times. I'm also hopeful for a lot more Baltar-Six interaction, much like we saw in the first season. I have to love Baltar, purposefully or not I find him hilarious, though this new Messiah, Jesus-esqueness could become tiresome.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Baltar's Cult definitely has shades of "Manson Family" all over it.

I expect Baltar to sing a Colonial-ized cover to "Helter Skelter" next.

Given Helo's expertise with bypassing life support systems, we should send him to do some, ahem, maintenance in the cultist's compartment. :evil:

[james968]

Baltar's Cult definitely has shades of "Manson Family" all over it.

I expect Baltar to sing a Colonial-ized cover to "Helter Skelter" next.



Well, if he'd kept the beard, he would like a bit like Charlie.

Plus there are two (possibly) dead people in the Officer's head. They're already headed in that direction. (When she was talking about having the energy to 'smite them' did she look a little like Annie (?) from the film "Misery"?)

[james968]

Couple of thoughts/questions:

Is everyone going to start using the phrase "they have been from the begin" (or the appropriate tense/conjugation)? Laura Roslin suddenly says it while they are inspecting Starbuck's ship. (The WTF (Watch Tower Four, it also summarized EVERYONE'S reaction) seem to have latched on it and Anders used it at least once).

Did the writers just pick 'viral encephalitis' out of the air? Or does it have special significance? (A strain of Viral Encephalitis wiped out the Basestar in the Lion's Head Nebula). Are the really old cylons (from the beginning) familiar enough with it to tip the balance? (it was encountered 3,000 years ago).

Don't the Colonials have an equivalent to "Einstein's THeory of Relativity". As an object gets closer to the speed of light, time slows down?

[Hermes]

Holy frak! That was a great episode. Great battle scene in the opening. I loved Baltar's reaction to the cult. The way he would roll his eyes. But you can see it won't take long before he'll start drinking the Kool-aid too and will start believing it. And the resurrected Starbuck storyline is so wonderfully Twilight Zone.

The idea of the Theory of Relativity explaining the time discrepancy for Starbuck would make sense. Though it still doesn't explain the new ship or the missing data from its black box.

[ShadowEnigma]

Hmm, I loved the episode, slightly worried that they've poured half their FX budget into the first ten minutes but by gosh, it was worth it. I'm slightly annoyed that it ended where it did, the time really did fly by. it's quite obvious that Laura won't be shot so I found that unnecessary.


Yeah they definitely did go nuts with that firefight. It was absolutely amazing to watch, and I can't wait for that to come out on DVD.

Why can't Laura be shot? I could see them killing her off.

[buerger23]

When Anders is in front of the cylon and his eye flashes did he download something? Is the fleet going to turn around just for Kara Thrace?

I don't think Roslin will be shot. But I could see Roslin shooting Kara in the knee or something.?

[Shane]

When Anders is in front of the cylon and his eye flashes did he download something? Is the fleet going to turn around just for Kara Thrace?

I don't think Roslin will be shot. But I could see Roslin shooting Kara in the knee or something.?
I think it was just an IFF signal to the raiders, indicating that "Hello. I am a Cylon."

[buerger23]

Ohh Thats makes sense. Then I have another question. Was he conscious of signalling the cylons or was it a subconscious thing that he didn't know he was doing? Why did the cylons run from the colonials? Was it because of the F5 or something else?

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

In the preview for the next episode, "Six Of One":

The Significant Seven know of the Final Five's presence in the Fleet. Cavil is confronted by Natalie about lobotomizing Raiders.

What happened was that Anders was basically sent an IFF signal. He responded. The Raiders called off the attack, notified their Hybrids, and spun their drives.

This is not unprecedented. The humanoid Cylons carried transponders (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Cylon_transponder) with them to help Cylons identify ships with Cylon agents aboard, as we later find out in "Kobol's Last Gleaming".

[positron]

Does Starbuck really think that killing the President is going to make everyone listen to her? They already don't trust or believe in her now so killing Roslin will solidify that. I see Roslin talking her out of doing it because it's not going to change anything, the fleet is still going to follow the path of the scriptures.

[OrionFour]

Does Starbuck really think that killing the President is going to make everyone listen to her? They already don't trust or believe in her now so killing Roslin will solidify that. I see Roslin talking her out of doing it because it's not going to change anything, the fleet is still going to follow the path of the scriptures.

Who knows what she's thinking. She doesn't really seem like the same Starbuck if you ask me, you can tell there's definitely something off about her, and I'm not talking about the headache she gets when they jump farther off course. I should point out though, that she may not be trying to kill the president, she may want to take her hostage, or may be even just trying to make a point about just how serious she is about this, you just don't know yet.

[ShadowEnigma]

Who knows what she's thinking. She doesn't really seem like the same Starbuck if you ask me, you can tell there's definitely something off about her, and I'm not talking about the headache she gets when they jump farther off course. I should point out though, that she may not be trying to kill the president, she may want to take her hostage, or may be even just trying to make a point about just how serious she is about this, you just don't know yet.

Quite true. Though she is definitely going to get brig time for doing that. Major brig time.

So do you think the IFF signal, or whatever Ander's red eye was only activated after Watchtower? What about before when he was still on Caprica fighting the Cylons?

[james968]

Quite true. Though she is definitely going to get brig time for doing that. Major brig time.


Will Anders get brig time also for keeping the 2nd marine from stopping her? It would seem a really big continuity gap.

[timbo]

Quite true. Though she is definitely going to get brig time for doing that. Major brig time.

So do you think the IFF signal, or whatever Ander's red eye was only activated after Watchtower? What about before when he was still on Caprica fighting the Cylons?

Exellent point, Mr Enigma. Perhaps it is because he is not one of the final five, merely human but with some sort of chip put into him on New Caprica, to make him think he was a cylon to create confusion, etc. etc see other posts. Why didnt his eye go red on caprica when there were cylons around? For those of you who like everything to add up through the plot, my ideas must seem a little likelier with each new piece of information.

I just thought of another possible explanation for Anders´red eye. Maybe Chief Tyroll blew one right in his face like in the best movie of last year, "knocked up".

[iheartthesystem]

Ok, I'm totally late to the conversion but IO have to say I really loved this episode. But then again, after a year of nearly no BSG (except Razor) I possibly would have get all excited about the cast reading the phone book of LA. :lol:
Totally random: I totally loved the space battle scenes, but that's something I generally do. And for some reason I was glad that the Space Park ship (the one with the spinny ring) didn't get destroyed.
And I really wonder why Starbzck thinks her somewhat crazy plan might work. Then again, she really doesn't seem like herself but rather completely confused and troubled so I can kind of see how and why she came up with that.
Baltar's altar/shrine with the blinky lights never failed to crack me up though.
Why didnt his eye go red on caprica when there were cylons around?
Maybe the Final Five were only activated when they came to the nebula and/or through the song?

I have a small continuity problem though: Was Sam ever in a Viper before? Because Racetrack mentioned something about Nuggets having to get familiar with a Raptor first before they would get in a Viper in Crossroads II to the group of Nuggets Sam was part of.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Maybe the Final Five were only activated when they came to the nebula and/or through the song?

I have a small continuity problem though: Was Sam ever in a Viper before? Because Racetrack mentioned something about Nuggets having to get familiar with a Raptor first before they would get in a Viper in Crossroads II to the group of Nuggets Sam was part of.

Right. They were activated. That would mean that any "systems" in them that were lying dormant were now activated.

It's like enabling services or new drivers on your computer. Without the "software", the "hardware" can't be recognized. Similar concept with the Cylons...

Basically, the Cylon sensed something, sent out an IFF pulse, and got a response.

Interestingly, we should note the "right eye" motif in this episode. Tigh's right eye no longer exists. Tigh shoots Adama in the right eye in his nightmare. Anders right eye glows.

It's all about the eye. LOL

Anyway, Sam didn't seem to be in Viper training... So that might be a retcon on their part. Further, anyone notice that the limp he had in "Crossroads, Part II" suddenly went away?

[ShadowEnigma]

Sorry Timbo, didn't see Knocked Up so I dunno what you mean.

Yeah, that's what I was figuring about Anders, that none of that stuff would have happened until he got activated.

As to his training. I wouldn't be surprised if he had some basic training here and there. Maybe all textbook training, because they were in training, and you would have to know the textbook stuff before getting in the cockpit. Would explain why he was frakkin' up so much.

As to his not limping... good point, I didn't realize it until you mentioned it. I dunno, adrenaline?

[iheartthesystem]

As to his training. I wouldn't be surprised if he had some basic training here and there. Maybe all textbook training, because they were in training, and you would have to know the textbook stuff before getting in the cockpit. Would explain why he was frakkin' up so much.
Yeah, that seems very likely to me. But I still think this might have been his actual first time flying in a Viper (and they don't have flight simulators on the Galactica if I remember correctly?). I know it's really not that important but still somehow bugging me.
I realized the missing limping too but the limp seems to have really bad continuity: I didn't remember it much in Crossroads I and at the beginning of Crossroads II, but at the end of Crossroads II it was really visible, especially when the four Final Fiver all left the gym (or whatever room it was) after them being revealed as cylons. And now it was gone again, mere hours later.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Yeah, that seems very likely to me. But I still think this might have been his actual first time flying in a Viper (and they don't have flight simulators on the Galactica if I remember correctly?). I know it's really not that important but still somehow bugging me.
I realized the missing limping too but the limp seems to have really bad continuity: I didn't remember it much in Crossroads I and at the beginning of Crossroads II, but at the end of Crossroads II it was really visible, especially when the four Final Fiver all left the gym (or whatever room it was) after them being revealed as cylons. And now it was gone again, mere hours later.

Pegasus had simulators. However, they might have moved one or two to Galactica... Maybe as a means of not keeping all their eggs in one basket?

Also, the time that passed between the revelation scene and his Viper scene in HTBIM scene were mere minutes. Sam wasn't limping when he and Tyrol had "the talk".

[ShadowEnigma]

As to the limping, I'm going to say adrenaline. Just because that somehow solves the problem, haha.

As to his flying, I would agree this was probably his first time actually in the cockpit. If Galactica got the simulators from Pegasus, maybe he was in one? He did have some understanding of the cockpit, which could be textbook knowledge, or textbook/simulator knowledge. He reminded me of myself when I first try to play a fighter video game. Really shaky, can't get stuff to work, haha.

[Lestat]

I have to view again and to put order in my thoughts , the episode was great but created a lot of new points such as why Athene isn't able to recognize two cylons standing a feet away but Caprica Six can sense them from the brig ? also why a raider should send a signal to Anders in the middle of a battle?
Why they never did this , Anders didn't shoot whereas anyone else would, so why that raider was sure enough to stop in front of the weapons of a viper and sent a signal?
No else had ever received such signals nor have had a raider in such comfortable position to aim to.

[ShadowEnigma]

Well, we know that Caprica Six has been having those Opera House dreams. That most likely has something to do with her sensing the final five.

Anders didn't shoot because he couldn't get his Viper to shoot. If you remember, he was jamming on the trigger, but the guns wouldn't shoot.

As to why the raider turned to look at him, maybe the eye wasn't the initial signal, but the confirmation. Maybe the raider sensed the F5 person behind it, the raider spun to confirm it, which the eye turning red did.

[Lestat]

Exactly my point why an ordinary Raider could do what a more sofisticated one can't?

I didn't meant that Anders wouldn't shoot , I meant that the raider put his life at stake standing in front of him to send that signal , he couln't know that Anders was unable to shoot.

Athena was also in those dreams but still she can't sense the F5 not even when she calmed down Tyrol and Anders standing a feet away from them

[timbo]

I posted this on the final cylon poll thread, but I think it probably belongs here.Halleleulah !!! Am I taking my first tentative steps toward a fellow seeker of the truth, or is it a trap. Your "is this out there enough for you" ending makes me think you are an ally. I hadn´t heard of Ron Moore until a few weeks ago, and I have honestly never been on a forum before. I only got this, my first computer, six months ago. You say "from what I know of Ron Moore" like you know him pretty well. And Mr Moore likes to surprise everyone with something that nobody saw coming. I think if maybe somebody did see it coming it might cause problems. So tell me if I am spoiling things for people and I will stop. I dont know about Helo being the final cylon, but he is the moral compass of the show. I have posted before that I think one of the strongest storylines has been how Helo´s love for Sharon, even knowing she was a cylon. He was all in and so was she. As a consequence, she saved the entire fleet - Sharon, a cylon. I did the post below before I Read your post. It is a response to Mr Enigma´s "why didn´t Anders eye light up on Caprica´when cylons were around" post. I suppose the honest thing is to just post it as I wrote it.

Maybe the Final Five were only activated when they came to the nebula and/or through the song?


Good point, But. Please, please, please, think about this carefully: Everyone, even me, believes that the final five are somehow superior or senior to the other seven. Clearly, the first seven are in awe or even frightened of the final five. Now, imagine Anders on Caprica risking his life fighting the cylons. If he really was a final fiver, would they risk a centaurian killing him because he was not activated? Of course not. Think about this, because it really DOES blow a huge hole in the universally accepted view that he is a final fiver. The logic is flawless. I think his eye did not glow on Caprica because he was and is human, and they hadnt put the chip in him yet. Perhaps it is time to think about who is really clutching at straws.

My intentions are honorable. I am not trying to cause trouble and I definitely dont want to spoil the show for anyone. Some honest feedback please.

Thank you Mr Enigma for just opening the door a fraction.


Halleleulah !!! Am I taking my first tentative steps toward a fellow seeker of the truth, or is it a trap. Your "is this out there enough for you" ending makes me think you are an ally. I hadn´t heard of Ron Moore until a few weeks ago, and I have honestly never been on a forum before. I only got this, my first computer, six months ago. You say "from what I know of Ron Moore" like you know him pretty well. And Mr Moore likes to surprise everyone with something that nobody saw coming. I think if maybe somebody did see it coming it might cause problems. So tell me if I am spoiling things for people and I will stop. I dont know about Helo being the final cylon, but he is the moral compass of the show. I have posted before that I think one of the strongest storylines has been how Helo´s love for Sharon, even knowing she was a cylon. He was all in and so was she. As a consequence, she saved the entire fleet - Sharon, a cylon. I did the post below before I Read your post. It is a response to Mr Enigma´s "why didn´t Anders eye light up on Caprica´when cylons were around" post. I suppose the honest thing is to just post it as I wrote it.

Maybe the Final Five were only activated when they came to the nebula and/or through the song?


Good point, But. Please, please, please, think about this carefully: Everyone, even me, believes that the final five are somehow superior or senior to the other seven. Clearly, the first seven are in awe or even frightened of the final five. Now, imagine Anders on Caprica risking his life fighting the cylons. If he really was a final fiver, would they risk a centaurian killing him because he was not activated? Of course not. Think about this, because it really DOES blow a huge hole in the universally accepted view that he is a final fiver. The logic is flawless. I think his eye did not glow on Caprica because he was and is human, and they hadnt put the chip in him yet. Perhaps it is time to think about who is really clutching at straws.

My intentions are honorable. I am not trying to cause trouble and I definitely dont want to spoil the show for anyone. Some honest feedback please.

Thank you Mr Enigma for just opening the door a fraction.


Damn, this editing busines is difficult. I think I have said just about everything I have to say. I dont think I will post again, but before I go to bed, I just want to say two things. First, Thankyou for everything the show has given me, and secondly, that often, when I have watched an episode late at night, especially those episodes that finish, after another ordeal has been survived, with wonderful tender moments between people who love each other, it has given me an overwhelming desire to go in and kiss my two beautiful daughters before I go to bed. I can´t imagine anyone is ever going to say anything nicer than that about the show.

[Sgt_Smiles]

[QUOTE=JDS;7607]I now know EXACTLY what is going to happen to Baltar!



Long time ZERO posts everyone ! good to be back and:

BALTAR IS THE CYLON GOD. END OF SEARCH.

WHERE'D MY CYLON EMOTE GO?!?!?!?!?

[Seanathin]

Great episode glad to see the Space Park, or as I call it circle ship, make it.

Sam was in the viper because Adama ordered anybody who knew how to ride a stick to get in the air, thus all the nuggets.

He didn't fire becuase the safty was still on his weapons....maybe.
I think that there is something diffrent about the raiders from the other cylons because in the teaser for the next episode we hear that a Cavil is lobotomizing [Leobenizing? Haha! ;) -JDS] them. And I think that CapSix picked up on the F5 becuase there is something very specal about her as the protector of the next generation.

[empathy44]

A lot of things seemed squirrelly to me--as in undercurrents.

Paulla seemed to show a sort of look of disdain for Baltar sometimes. She also seemed to be surprised when he didn't act selfishly or was honest. I wonder if she's watching Baltar as a spy; or if she doesn't believe in him and only wants to use Baltar to have power.

Sixes reaction to Baltar's reaction upon seeing the kid revived. She looked sort of sourly satisfied. I personally think that there might be some over-arcing third force responsible for Baltar's and Six's respective visions of each other. Perhaps this force could have controlled the kid getting sick and the kid getting better.

[bsgjunkie]

Awesome Season Premiere

[Induraen]

Good Episode but leaves me wanting more now! What was up with the Cylon Raider's blood all over Starbuck's pristine Viper. We've seen the Raiders bleed before but that one seemed to be particularly juicy. Also, Baltar was profusely bleeding after being attacked and Bill Adama, in Tigh's waking dream, also had a noticeably bloody (and brainy) discharge after being shot in the right eye. Is there a connection in this episode between blood and transformation with Thrace, Baltar and Tigh?

Head Six/Virtual Six looks so much more sexy and sophisticated, especially in contrast with Baltar's new harem.

And that Diloxin should be cross-prescribed as an anti-aging treatment because the Prez sure looks a lot younger since she started taking it... or was that a face lift in between seasons??? lol She looks really good, actually.

And lastly, if Thrace was a Cylon and was resurrected, would she still have her tattoos? We did not get to see much of her skin in this episode, deliberately or not.

[positron]

That guy really dug into Baltar's neck with that razor so that's why he was bleeding so much.

[Neakal]

Really good episode. I loved the pilot-perspective of the space fight. And maybe because it is the brightness of the nebula but the whole thing has an odd feel to it. Nothing bad. All the way through the battle I was going "Aww not Space Park! Aah! They shot Astral Queen! Zarek!" Really good feel :)

I loved Tigh's "pulling a Boomer" moment. I had seen the gun scene at trailers so I expected it and I knew Adama didn't die that early but they way they shot and how long it took with the whole camera pan made me have that "holy hell did he actually shoot?" moment anyway. Tigh's expression just before he pulled the trigger ("Never felt better in my entire life") and the song right after. Sorry Im kinda stuck on that one sequence.

Baltar's cult. Weird stuff. Nuff said.

This may not be a place for it but am I the only one who had a sudden thought that Starbuck may be a reincarnation of Pythia? It had that hunch during the mention of scrolls, Pythia and arguments over leading the fleet.

[JDS]

Hmm, I loved the episode, slightly worried that they've poured half their FX budget into the first ten minutes but by gosh, it was worth it. I'm slightly annoyed that it ended where it did, the time really did fly by.Mmm...I didn't like how it just broke off like that. The fleet is getting pummeled and then, "Meh, nevermind, we're going home."

If I'd been given that scene to write, I would have made it more ambiguous, and I would have made it more dynamic. Have Adama do something really, really crazy...spin up the FTL drive and jump right inbetween the upper and lower arms of a base star, where it can't fire its missiles (too close, it'd do more damage to itself than Galactica), maybe the closest jump in Colonial spacefaring history...right as the basestar is collapsing, one of the huge arms swinging towards Galactica, FTL spinning up for a second crazy jump, the other basestars launching missiles now that Galactica's target is dead anyway, and Anders gets scanned. BOOM everybody jumps at once. Galactica reappears right on top of the space where one of the other basestars just disappeared (oops, they woulda materialized inside...)

Did the Cylons leave because Galactica's suicidal attack was inflicting unacceptable losses? Did they leave because of something with Anders? Hmm...

The way the wrote it...it's too explicit.

[OldManRivers]

If anyone could anwser this question, that'd be great:

Do any of you know of any "flashing triple star"'s near Earth/Sol System? If so, I'm pondering how many light years it is.

Also of notice, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NGC_2440 NGC 2440 could be the Ionian Nebula. If so, it is 4000 light-years from Earth. Then we take the Ionian Nebula, which was 13,000 light-years from the Algae Planet, it'll take somewhere between 5-12 episodes to get to "Earth", assuming they keep jumping FTP, and jumping in the right direction. I'm trying to plot a course based on our evidence of astronomy of where they need to go/where they are going. Gas giant with rings, flashing red star, and a comet. Hey, what comet comes through Sol System but traveled the furthest into space?

Anyways, just curious nerd pondering here.


Oh, the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagoon_Nebula Lagoon Nebula is 4'100 light-years away.

[Mingus]

I think I remember hearing that they had a different FX company or something for Crossroads and Season 4. Or something along those lines. Anyhow, something has changed, and that could explain the blood in this episode, and other changes in style.

[ThPrime]

I loved Tigh's "pulling a Boomer" moment. I had seen the gun scene at trailers so I expected it and I knew Adama didn't die that early but they way they shot and how long it took with the whole camera pan made me have that "holy hell did he actually shoot?"

The paradox of how Tigh got his gun out his locker between the gym and the CIC is solved. He never did. Featuring character's hallucinations in promo trailers is a very effective foiler!

[1Nivek1]

It's like enabling services or new drivers on your computer.


That could very well be the geekiest analogy i've ever heard:thumbsup:

As far as Anders, what's to say he didn't send out the signal first ? That's my guess...he's learning to use his powers, etc.

No comments on the wormhole theory through the storm that traverses to the the black storm on jupiter?

Would wrap up time dilation problems, and would fit with "eye of jupiter", although, like I said before....I hope they don't do this.

[Osprey]

"know of any "flashing triple star"'s near Earth/Sol System?"
no frakking idea ...

but, since there are at least 12 known s4 episodes shot/in production, your potnetial timeline for "jumps until earth" seems to be close to what could occur ...

[Malcolm]

Very good episode, I watched it 4 times already.

[Neakal]

As it was talked in the "Starbuck's Earth" topic, there is a theory which says that the "triple-star" was referring to the Orion's Belt ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_%28constellation%29 )

[Shane]

If anyone could anwser this question, that'd be great:

Do any of you know of any "flashing triple star"'s near Earth/Sol System? If so, I'm pondering how many light years it is.
What Neakal said. Check out my post here (http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?p=7722#post7722) on this issue.

[aylinn]

I nearly cried when I saw the intro :D Been so long.
I must say that I hated this episode because it was frakking good and left so many questions and now I have to wait till Saturday ('cause that's the day episode is available to download).
I started to have fun and suddenly "to be continued"! Frak! :D I hope we will get to see Natalie in the next episode. I miss my good old Cylons :arf:

[Shane]

I nearly cried when I saw the intro :D Been so long.
I must say that I hated this episode because it was frakking good and left so many questions and now I have to wait till Saturday ('cause that's the day episode is available to download).
I started to have fun and suddenly "to be continued"! Frak! :D I hope we will get to see Natalie in the next episode. I miss my good old Cylons :arf:
:tos-cylon: == tos-cylon

[northtwilight]

Wow, that was spectacular!!

[Eyor Watts]

> If anyone could anwser this question, that'd be great:

> Do any of you know of any "flashing triple star"'s near Earth/Sol System? > If so, I'm pondering how many light years it is.


The nearest triple star system to Earth is of course the three stars that comprise what is commonly known as Alpha Centauri - Alpha Centauri A, Alpha Centauri B, and the more far flung red dwarf Proxima Centauri. As to what it means to be a "flashing" star....well, that could mean any number of things, especially coming from someone like Starbuck who doesn't seem too well versed in the finer points of astronomy or rigourously exact descriptions of stellar objects....but most likely if someone was stating a triple star system found near earth they would be talking about Alpha Centauri. Proxima Centauri is 4.22 ly away with the binary A and B stars laying further at 4.36 ly.

steve

[nurseboy]

I think it was just an IFF signal to the raiders, indicating that "Hello. I am a Cylon."

Or it could be the Final Five overriding the Raider programming, making them no longer a threat. From the trailers for the next episode, it appears there is now something wrong with the Raiders as 6 is telling Cavil to 'Stop lobotomizing' them.

I am starting to get the feeling that the FF are either a failed experiment, cylon dissenters or part of the master plan to get the humans to Earth....

Anyway, Sam didn't seem to be in Viper training... So that might be a retcon on their part. Further, anyone notice that the limp he had in "Crossroads, Part II" suddenly went away?

Sam was in flight training. The only reason why the Nuggets were let loose in Vipers is that they were desperate and needed "anyone who's ever held a stick" in the fight.

[Hermes]

The nearest triple star system to Earth is of course the three stars that comprise what is commonly known as Alpha Centauri - Alpha Centauri A, Alpha Centauri B, and the more far flung red dwarf Proxima Centauri. As to what it means to be a "flashing" star....well, that could mean any number of things, especially coming from someone like Starbuck who doesn't seem too well versed in the finer points of astronomy or rigourously exact descriptions of stellar objects....but most likely if someone was stating a triple star system found near earth they would be talking about Alpha Centauri. Proxima Centauri is 4.22 ly away with the binary A and B stars laying further at 4.36 ly.

steveThat's a good choice. Look at this quote from wiki about Proxima:
Proxima Centauri is categorized as a flar star, as it undergoes random increases in luminosity because of magnetic activity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxima_Centauri (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxima_Centauri)

[dulce0605]

Just wondering if chief is really one of the final five then wouldn't the cylons be just as interested in his son as they are in Hera for being half human half cylon (the so called next generation)?

[ShadowEnigma]

Just wondering if chief is really one of the final five then wouldn't the cylons be just as interested in his son as they are in Hera for being half human half cylon (the so called next generation)?

We will have to wait and see. The Cylons don't know he is a F5 yet. Maybe they will be more interested in his child then Hera because of that.

[Jules]

I totally loved this episode! I've been watching the first 3 seasons over and over waiting for this one.
Seriously how funny was Baltar, the look he gives when he realises they are all worshiping him is hysterical.
I almost expected Tigh to jump into a Viper when Adama orders for everyone who's ever flown. That would have been fun, but understandably didn't happen.
The final 5 stuff was cool. Felt really bad for Anders when Starbuck said if he were a cylon she'd put a bullet between his eyes :(
Can't wait for more!
PS total newbie, my first post :)

[ShadowEnigma]

Welcome Jules! If you have any questions/problems feel free to ask myself or any of the admins or mods.

[JDS]

Felt really bad for Anders when Starbuck said if he were a cylon she'd put a bullet between his eyesHaha yeah, she's so heartless about it, he's just thinking "Oh goddamnit, now how am I gonna tell her?"

[aylinn]

:tos-cylon: == tos-cylon
I meant actually Number 6 and 3 :P

[Lestat]

Alpha Centauri ,the closest star to Sol ,is a triple star but it's not blinking all the three stars are stable although Proxima ,a red dwarf , has flares every now and then


that could mean that either it's a new clue or Starbuck has been deceived and wasn't actually on Earth's orbit , it's an elaborate hoax.

[The Nubs]

Right. They were activated. That would mean that any "systems" in them that were lying dormant were now activated.

It's like enabling services or new drivers on your computer. Without the "software", the "hardware" can't be recognized. Similar concept with the Cylons...

Basically, the Cylon sensed something, sent out an IFF pulse, and got a response.

Interestingly, we should note the "right eye" motif in this episode. Tigh's right eye no longer exists. Tigh shoots Adama in the right eye in his nightmare. Anders right eye glows.

It's all about the eye. LOL

Anyway, Sam didn't seem to be in Viper training... So that might be a retcon on their part. Further, anyone notice that the limp he had in "Crossroads, Part II" suddenly went away?

I think it also ties back to the episode where boomer states that the raiders are more like animals. Animals can sense things differently than people. I think somehow once the FF were activated and the raider got close enough he sensed the cylon presences. Turned around and did his little scan/check and sure enough it's our former master/I don't remember owning a droid before moment. I think that once the raider realizes it's one of the FF that they turn and run back to the mothership saying mom I just saw grand dad.

[iheartthesystem]

why Athene isn't able to recognize two cylons standing a feet away but Caprica Six can sense them from the brig ? also why a raider should send a signal to Anders in the middle of a battle?
Why they never did this , Anders didn't shoot whereas anyone else would, so why that raider was sure enough to stop in front of the weapons of a viper and sent a signal?
No else had ever received such signals nor have had a raider in such comfortable position to aim to.
I myself am wondering why Athena didn't seem to recognize the Chief and Sam as cylons. But then again, maybe she felt something but chose not to mention anything for some reason. Maybe she doubted her own feelings and didn't believe that the two could be cylons too, maybe she didn't say anything because she didn't want to upset the two in such a crucial battle situation. Or she just assumed that the two themselves didn't know that they were cylons and didn't want to make them suspicious of their true new cylon nature. Well, there could be all kind of explanations.

As for the raider's signal: Wasn't that the same signal that the raiders sent out in the miniseries and which disabled all the more modern vipers?

[positron]

We saw how the Raiders reacted, I want to know what the skinjobs have to say about it. I guess we'll find out this week huh?

[james968]

Haha yeah, she's so heartless about it, he's just thinking "Oh goddamnit, now how am I gonna tell her?"

Probably a bit relieved, she doesn't already know, if not, he'd know. (For a split second. Then we would know if the FF resurrect or reincarnate, or 'spring fully grown from holes in the ground')

[ShadowEnigma]

I myself am wondering why Athena didn't seem to recognize the Chief and Sam as cylons. But then again, maybe she felt something but chose not to mention anything for some reason. Maybe she doubted her own feelings and didn't believe that the two could be cylons too, maybe she didn't say anything because she didn't want to upset the two in such a crucial battle situation. Or she just assumed that the two themselves didn't know that they were cylons and didn't want to make them suspicious of their true new cylon nature. Well, there could be all kind of explanations.


Well you have to remember what Caprica Six said. SS were designed not to think about the FF. FF seems to be a very taboo subject among the SS (I wonder why?). So her not recognizing them doesn't surprise me at all. Caprica Six seems to be connected with them somehow, and is definitely unique. Why she has the ability to sense them? (Maybe it's just a gut feeling and not truly the ability to sense them?) I dunno, but she will definitely become a key player this season I think.

[OldManRivers]

My theory is that the FF are the first 5 Cylons created by the colonies, as in, the first 5 artificial intelligence. We are to assume that the Raiders, Centurians, etc. were also self-conscious at some point, similar to the humanoid Cylons. If this is true, what happened then? Why aren't they self-conscious now?

If the SS's original programming dictates they can't think about the FF, there could of been a major disagreement. Maybe perhaps over going to war in the first place? The FF did not want to go to war in the first place (First Cylon War). This could cause a signigicant riff and force them to go into colonial society.

The other possibility is that the Final Five are Cylons from the previous cycle (All of this has happened before, and will happen again). They've did this previously, and the Beings of Light the D'iana, Six, Baltar see, are the previous Final Five (Five Priests to worship the One Who's Name Cannot Be Spoken).

I know my theory has holes in it, but it's the best I got at this point.

[Starstruck]

Hello, all. I'm new to the forums and desperately looking for a place to blab about BSG. :)

I agree with Old Man Rivers and others in that there must have been a split between the seven cylons and the final five. Possibilities on that: the final five programmed the seven not to remember them because they created the seven and are fundamentally different; or the five were banished for some reason, and a decision was made to program the seven not to seek them; or all 12 are the same and plotted the attacks together, but the seven were programmed not to recognize the five so no matter what happened, they wouldn't give away their positions in the fleet. Of course, if that's the case, how did the cyclons know which ships would survive?

It's interesting to note that the almost-final four ;) don't seem to have a clue who they are, where they really came from or what they're supposed to do now that they are aware they're cylons. Perhaps the most interesting thing about this series will not be how the plot turns out (though I'm dying to know that) but how the idea of humanity is explored. Do any of you feel differently about the four now that you know their true identities? I personally, don't. I'm just scared they're gonna pull a Boomer.

My last question, for now, is why didn't the 12th cylon hear the music and come to the meeting with the others? Is the 12th fundamentally different than the others? Was the 12th not on the ship?

Cheers!
Starstruck

[ShadowEnigma]

Welcome to the forums! If you have any questions/concerns, feel free to message myself or the other admins/mods.

As to your post, no I don't feel any different about them. I still see them as the people they were. I think the FF are more then just Cylon. But that's just me ranting the same thing I have in a half dozen other threads haha.

I'm curious though, do you think SS knew the FF before hand? I'm really curious to the background and history of the FF.

[TPL2008]

The seven know of the existance final five.

I'm thinking some outside influence (someone or something) made the FF either different from or seperate from the seven. Remember what 3 said before she was boxed, about answering the question about who programmed the cylons?

I find it odd that they should question who programmed them, before this was raised i (and i assume others) thought that it was just a 'natural' progression from the metal to organic with the original cylons choosing templates (both physical and progamming wise) for the organic generation.

It appears to me that at some point before the cylons made the transition to organics, with as seen in Razor started during the first cylon war, they made contact with, or it influenced them, with some other force. Judging by the religious significence of the visions including the final five it is my opinion likely that this force is spiritual in nature.

This force then for whatever reason decided to hide this five from the others and guided them to this point in time to survive, only to be activated for whatever reason.

[Hermes]

Hello, all. I'm new to the forums and desperately looking for a place to blab about BSG. :)Welcome. I've only a posted a few times myself.
My last question, for now, is why didn't the 12th cylon hear the music and come to the meeting with the others? Is the 12th fundamentally different than the others? Was the 12th not on the ship? This is one of the reasons that I think the 12th is Starbuck. She was off Galactica.
~ Larry

[timbo]

The seven know of the existance final five.

I'm thinking some outside influence (someone or something) made the FF either different from or seperate from the seven. Remember what 3 said before she was boxed, about answering the question about who programmed the cylons?

I find it odd that they should question who programmed them, before this was raised i (and i assume others) thought that it was just a 'natural' progression from the metal to organic with the original cylons choosing templates (both physical and progamming wise) for the organic generation.

It appears to me that at some point before the cylons made the transition to organics, with as seen in Razor started during the first cylon war, they made contact with, or it influenced them, with some other force. Judging by the religious significence of the visions including the final five it is my opinion likely that this force is spiritual in nature.

This force then for whatever reason decided to hide this five from the others and guided them to this point in time to survive, only to be activated for whatever reason.


Like God put souls in the final five or something?

[Jonathan]

I was on vacation and saw it there. Or rather I saw bits and pieces of it. But enough of it to understand what happened in that episode. Despite that I was hopelessly lost because I haven't seen season 3 yet.

I know when I see that season all will be caught up. Unfortunately, Netflix has it marked "Long Wait." /sigh.

[crood]

I don't agree that the five are "original". If they are, the Cylon numbering makes no sense. We no who 3, 5, 6, and 8 are. There are three of the SS that we don't know the numbers of. In any event, there's no way the FF can all have consecutive numbers.

The closest you can come up with is that the four we know about are 9-12 and the one we don't know about has a non-sequential number (probably 1).

From the Colonial standpoint, the original Cylons were the Centurians resembling the ones from TOS. They had to be self-aware as they were the ones who rebelled. The colonials didn't know about the humanoid ones until the fall of the colonies, but Adama (and presumably his superiors) knew about the first hybrid.

Given what we know about Tigh, the evolution was extremely fast. He's known Adama for 30 years. How did it happen so fast and how did they end up replacing the Centurions as Cylon leaders?

Given the "this has all happened before" theme, I'm wondering if the original series will be tied in somehow.

[Shane]

Numbers were assigned randomly. I doubt the numbering system means anything at this point, given he fact that more than half of them don't even have a number associated with them right now.

[ShadowEnigma]

I was on vacation and saw it there. Or rather I saw bits and pieces of it. But enough of it to understand what happened in that episode. Despite that I was hopelessly lost because I haven't seen season 3 yet.

I know when I see that season all will be caught up. Unfortunately, Netflix has it marked "Long Wait." /sigh.

Well if you want to drive over, I'll lend you my season 3 :lol:

[OrionFour]

Numbers were assigned randomly. I doubt the numbering system means anything at this point, given he fact that more than half of them don't even have a number associated with them right now.

Agreed. They don't seem to be all that important anymore. Although I don't see why it's so unimportant to RDM and Eick - the Cylon model numbers really help ground the characters to the fact that they are in fact artificial beings, no matter how much they grow and evolve.

[ShadowEnigma]

Yeah, I agree having the model numbers really adds the, well it has a name but it's still just a model number. It really mixes the idea of human and robot for the Cylons.

[Shane]

Well if you want to drive over, I'll lend you my season 3 :lol:

I think shipping it to him would be faster. :D

[JDS]

I noticed an interesting thing about the dream sequence where Tigh shoots Adama...

It's the sort of thing you'd probably never notice until the second watching...the "real" part of the scene is shot handheld...immediately after Adama asks, "What the hell is wrong with you?", it cuts to Tigh's face and this shot done with a mounted camera...and all of the shots are done with a mounted camera until we go back to Adama's face again in "reality", where it switches back to handheld.

It's interesting how early on, one of the elements of BSGs visual language was using simulated handheld shots where space sci-fi had never used them before, to convey the sense of being a documentary of real events...now we see RDM using the handheld shots to delineate what is "real" from what "isn't real".

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Well, they've used mounted cameras before... For instance, the scene with the multiple Cylons entering Ragnar Anchorage at the end of the Miniseries. That was done by a camera mounted on a motorized track.

[JDS]

I know, I'm not saying that the use of mounted cameras is unique to this sequence...I'm just saying that in this particular case, the transition was very specifically tied to the separation between "reality" and Tigh's "waking dream", which is interesting within the context of this particular series' visual language.

[positron]

I noticed that too, it is very cool as you say.

[Asiriya]

A point about the blood from the raiders; it has been seen before in previous episodes, I think it started just after Kara found the crashed one. They didn't keep it up I suppose because it's annoying to animate properly, but it has happened before. (Sorry if someone's already pointed this out)

[ShadowEnigma]

That is a very observant observation. We'll definitely have to watch for other times to see if he does that more. Have there been other situations where he has done that? Something so small you don't even think about the first time through. I love the details they put into the show.

[JDS]

Well the raiders usually explode in rather standard sci-fi fireballs (the ship that just disintegrated into a huge fireball as soon as the raider hit it kinda disappointed me in that sense). Maybe it depends on where you shoot them? Hit them in the engines or the magazines and they blow up...hit them in the brain and they pop like zits :p

[james968]

I've seen the blood. I've seen the blood! I'VE SEEN THE BLOOD!

Actually they have shown some clouds of raider blood in previous battles, its just we've never seen the Viper come home soaked in it. (Maybe the Nebulla batle was so much more intense than the rest).

[Jonathan]

I'm going to go against the flow and say it was really nice to see the show back on the air. BUT, I think overall the episode was mediocre at best. It was missing something essential, some essence or heart that makes other episodes really punch things home.

It was cool to see all those cg shots of the ships but the episode as a whole was mostly random, uncertain, and with mediocre acting. I'm sure a lot of it can be explained by the difficulty of getting back into the groove. The actors, the staff, the viewers, etc. It has been a long time since BSG was in the groove with new shows. It takes a bit. This episode is a slump that they shook off with last Friday's episode, which shined.

[Leoben]

This episode had a ton of material to cover. Starbuck, Cylons attacking the fleet, the revelation of 4 of the Final 5, where does the fleet go from here, etc.

I think all those things considered, they did a solid job and I thoroughly enjoyed the episode. As they start focusing in a little tighter things are getting better in my opinion (even ep2 is a whole lot better in my mind).

[jazz_jeff]

Loved every minute of it. Thought it was so funny, the expression on Baltars face when he walked into a certain room and saw what he saw, especially at the top of the room.