Cylon FTL vs. Colonial FTL

[buerger23]

My thought on this is that the cylon FTL works different from the colonial FTL.
I think the cylon's bend space (this is where it gets a little crazy). They bend it like the navigators from the Dune series and hence they are only half human. But the colonials just travel faster then light and so they use fuel. I know the cylons have needed tillium ore but lets say thats to build Raiders, Centurions, Basestars, etc. But humans need it for fuel but lets say if a Basestar doesn't have a hybrid (1st cylon war) they use the tillium for fuel and have "coventional" FTL. but they also have conventional FTL for back up FTL drives. This is just a thought and nothing else but the hybrid-navigator connection is just too much for me too ignore.

[Neakal]

Well the analogy of Dune is a valid one since the Hybrids do seem to have a hightened awareness of time and space like in Dune although I found them more similar to the Bentusi in Homeworld.

While the process of becoming a navigator in Dune was somewhat explained (long exposure to Spice Melange to the point where the person evolves and can not live without breathing it while also giving them a level of clairvoyance (spelling), the exact process and how they feel during "foldspace" wasn't detailed much.

In turn, the Bentusi in Homeworld referred to the experience of Hyperspace (their version of FTL) as "song" while the Hybrids in BSG seemed to have an orgasm when commencing jump. I know is more about the state of existence of Hybrids, Navigators and Bentusi rather than Cylon FTL. Just pointing out the differences and similarities of such beings in other fiction.

I like your explanation of the Cylon FTL though we probably will never see it explained :)

[Spencerian]

Better not to take analogies from other SF stories, as it is unclear ( and unlikely) that Ron Moore derived his FTL concepts from these.

Remember that Cylons are a creation of Man. Thus, they received the same technology as the Colonials had to do their work. After the exile, their cybernetic nature merely allowed improvements in the Colonial design. Modern Cylon FTL tech MUST be the same, albeit improved. Otherwise, as shown in "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part 2" (in Starbuck's Raider) and in "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part 1", the Colonials would not be able to interface their tech to the Cylon tech to fly the Raider or sync their Colonial FTL drives to the Cylon navigation computer operated by Caprica-Sharon.

By the same logic (and as shown in "The Hand of God", the Cylons use the fuel tylium for the reasons as the Colonials. They likely can get it more readily due to their FTL improvements as well as probably having more efficiency in burning it.

The Hybrids are just living computers. While their perception of the FTL process is certainly unique, it doesn't change the nature of the science. Cylon and Colonial FTL are the same. One is just more efficient than the other.

[buerger23]

I see your point but, how much more advanced is the cylon FTL than the colonial version.

[ShadowEnigma]

I think they mentioned it in an episode, about how far a cylon FtL could jump compared to the Colonial. Try the episodes around the Kara going back to save Anders. When they bring Athena in to do the jumping controls, they say, a colonial drive will take X amount of jumps, however a Cylon drive can do it in 10! Or some number like that. That's probably about as close as you'll get to knowing how much more advanced the Cylon FTL is.

[NEXUX]

Cylon FTL advanced than the colonial FTL
able to jump longer and less energy
coordinat calculations perfect thn again colonial FTL

[ShadowEnigma]

Perfect? Aren't we a bit modest about Cylon FTL? :P

[NEXUX]

Perfect? Aren't we a bit modest about Cylon FTL? :P

what do you expect from a Cylon? :):devil:

:tos-cylon:

[buerger23]

I expect cylons to be too stupid to figure out a way to advance their FTL system. They propabbaly found some alien race and stole their system. :lol:

[ShadowEnigma]

I expect cylons to be too stupid to figure out a way to advance their FTL system. They propabbaly found some alien race and stole their system. :lol:

Agreed! :lol:

[JDS]

I think the cylon's bend space (this is where it gets a little crazy). They bend it like the navigators from the Dune series and hence they are only half human. But the colonials just travel faster then light and so they use fuel.Three things come to mind here.

1: Yes, most obvious, the Heavy Raider FTL computer would have been useless to the Raptors if they used entirely different FTL technologies.

2: Notice that they use the same CGI effect for both Cylon and Colonial ships when they jump. They likely would have used different effects if the ships used completely different FTL technology.

3: Now this is getting a bit technical, but remember when the Raptor jumped inside of a mountain on Caprica? If you're bending space so that your target point becomes infinitesimally close to your point of origin, you could, maybe, just appear inside of a mountain. But if you were actually travelling at speeds greater than c, you would most likely impact the mountain, causing all manner of huge explosions and chaos, which the Raptors around them would have SEEN and felt, and there would have been no beacon remaining to home in on.

[JDS]

the Hybrids in BSG seemed to have an orgasm when commencing jump.Whoa, I must have missed something, maybe I should go back and watch a few episodes again :lol:

[Sieglord]

I might be confused, but my understanding of the Colonial "hyperlight engine" was that it was some sort of space-fold...an instantaneous leap from one point to another, without actually occupying any of the intervening space. Velocity would be irrelevant to this sort of travel, which is why Racetrack and Skulls were able to jump out of the way of a Cylon missile even though their Raptor wasn't moving at all (Crossroads, Pt.I)

Based on what I've heard from the dialog of the series, this is what I've come up for how the Colonial FTL works (the Cylons use the same technique, but I'll get to that in a moment): Tyllium is used to power some device that generates a localized gravity well, powerful enough to "fold" space, enabling instantaneous transport from one place to another...if you get the calculations right. The gravity effect must be precisely calibrated, and the number of variables is quite large. This is what limits the Colonial ability to jump distance...their ability to perform the calculations needed to manipulate the FTL device with sufficient precision.

This is also why the Cylon FTL is capable of greater jumping distance...because of their much more advanced computing technology, they are capable of plotting more precise jumps at greater distances.

[JDS]

I might be confused, but my understanding of the Colonial "hyperlight engine" was that it was some sort of space-fold...an instantaneous leap from one point to another, without actually occupying any of the intervening space. Velocity would be irrelevant to this sort of travel, which is why Racetrack and Skulls were able to jump out of the way of a Cylon missile even though their Raptor wasn't moving at all (Crossroads, Pt.I)

Based on what I've heard from the dialog of the series, this is what I've come up for how the Colonial FTL works (the Cylons use the same technique, but I'll get to that in a moment): Tyllium is used to power some device that generates a localized gravity well, powerful enough to "fold" space, enabling instantaneous transport from one place to another...if you get the calculations right. The gravity effect must be precisely calibrated, and the number of variables is quite large. This is what limits the Colonial ability to jump distance...their ability to perform the calculations needed to manipulate the FTL device with sufficient precision.

This is also why the Cylon FTL is capable of greater jumping distance...because of their much more advanced computing technology, they are capable of plotting more precise jumps at greater distances.All of this is correct, at least based on what has been presented so far.

[buerger23]

Yeah that's got to be the way the FTL jumps are made because there in no acceleration at all. Just like what the navigators do in Dune.

[britboyj]

This is also why the Cylon FTL is capable of greater jumping distance...because of their much more advanced computing technology, they are capable of plotting more precise jumps at greater distances.

That's what I've always thought, in a similar manner as to Star Wars NavComputers, the better the computer, the straighter and more efficient the jump.

Of course, the engines in Star Wars obviously are actual ENGINES, and since FTL jumps are instantaneous, there's some differences, but in SW, a ship with a faster engine but worse computer could conceivably end up at a destination AFTER a ship with a slower engine and better computer.

Sort of the same idea, although it seems the Cylon FTL drives are also definitely more efficient with their fuel than Colonial ships.

[ShadowEnigma]

That's what I've always thought, in a similar manner as to Star Wars NavComputers, the better the computer, the straighter and more efficient the jump.

Sort of the same idea, although it seems the Cylon FTL drives are also definitely more efficient with their fuel than Colonial ships.

The first half I could definitely agree with. The Cylons probably have a better efficiency than the Colonial computers in computing, as well as mapping because it is obvious they have a decent sized fleet of ships, and probably have more up to date maps and better numbers to crunch.

As for being more fuel efficient? I don't know if you could make that argument in my opinion. Their systems could use much more fuel.. they just have a constant (or better supply) of fuel than the colonials. They have the manpower (machine power :p) to constantly mine and transport fuel to their fleet while the colonials barely have enough time to do anything.

[britboyj]

As for being more fuel efficient? I don't know if you could make that argument in my opinion. Their systems could use much more fuel.. they just have a constant (or better supply) of fuel than the colonials. They have the manpower (machine power :p) to constantly mine and transport fuel to their fleet while the colonials barely have enough time to do anything.

Well, from Season 1 I'd say it's safe to assume tillium is pretty rare overall and even though it's a big galaxy it requires some searching and from the last episode, it appears the Cylons have TONS of Basestars, plus each raider obvious has to have some tillium as well.

I just don't see, even with a large reserve, how the Cylon fleet could last as long as it has without being more efficient. You don't hear them complaining about a lack of tillium after all.

[buerger23]

Although they did have a Tillium facility on that planet or asteroid or what ever! But they must have much more efficient FTL .

[Sparrow]

In star wars universe the time a route throught hiperspace takes depends in how much "Explored" and common is that route.. the more documentated, the less calculations the computer has to make and the less adjustements.. less common routes.. much much shorter take much much more time due to not being quite documented..

There is a Galaxy map with space lane time calculations to illustrate it..
for example.. you would need 7 days to go from Tatooine to Yavin straight..
but it takes 1/s days to go from Tatooine to Alderaan and same time to go from Alderaan to Yavin.. so you can cut the 7 days to 2/4 if you go first to Alderaan and then jump to Yavin.. thats what justifies in starWars comertial hubs and comertial routes when one would thing "why you dont jump straight"..

FTL is the same.. colonials must use compters+humans calculations.. Cylons are awesome computers+awesome walking computers calculating.. so they can jump much more far away..
in fact..now that they are near the Orion Belt..so near earth...i wonder after finding hearth how much would take to both Colonials and Cylons to jump back to the Colonies

[jp2542as]

Don't forget that the technology in battlestars and other colonial craft are dumbed down. It was too easy for the cylons to take control of advanced systems. So a Cylon ship can probably use few jumps to get somewhere due to more sofisticated nav computers.

[JDS]

It's not so much that the technology is dumbed down...it's just isolated instead of interconnected. The Cylons can dedicate all of their processing power to calculate accurate jump coordinates whereas the Colonials only have the maximum processing power of their single navigation computer.

[jp2542as]

It's not so much that the technology is dumbed down...it's just isolated instead of interconnected. The Cylons can dedicate all of their processing power to calculate accurate jump coordinates whereas the Colonials only have the maximum processing power of their single navigation computer.

You're right, JDS. That is what I meant by dumbed down. I worked for a company who's slogan was "The network is the computer"....

[jerrywickey]

Theoretical physics is a very advanced subject. When the physics principles are further complicated by the principles of theatrical license and dramatic effect the science becomes even more complicated.

The writers don't have to worry about anything but making it look cool. Us geeks do all the work of figuring out how it works.

The admiral asked Gaeta if he could plot such a long jump from Ragnar far past the "red line," to uncharted space. The response suggested the greatest difficulty was in ensuring the jump did not end inside a star or other equally disastrous location. If we assume the limit to FTL jumps is simply the ability to confidently observe the destination location for dangers and sometimes correctly and accurately locate planets into whose orbit the jumper is attempting.

This is the first step in understanding the BSG FTL drive as reveled in the story.

Calculations of where matter is and where moving matter will be when a jump is calculated must be more than just the matter of the chance odds of jumping into a planet. If it were simply a matter of the chance odds, and since space occupied by matter is so ridiculously small compared to empty space, it would be very safe to jump anywhere at random. The actual chances of ending up inside a planet or sun would be far less than the random chance you might choke to death on the meal you happen to be eating just before the scheduled jump.

Since calculations are necessary at all in the BSG world, we can infer that the nature of the FTL travel might have to do with a new M Theory (M theory is real and is the latest incarnation of string theory) which postulates that space is a characteristic of matter-energy in the same way mass, spin and charge are.

If this is true then the distance between two particles or a ship and a planet for that matter, does not have to do with the space that exists between them. Instead it has to do with the relationship between the characteristics of the matter between which the distance is perceived.

BSG FTL drive must manipulate those characteristics, such that the matter is not moved, instead the distance it is from another place is adjusted directly. If one manipulates these characteristics purely at random, intuition would suggest that the chance of rematerializing at any given point along the line shown below would be as such.

Planet A|...12%...|...12%...|...12%...|...12%...|...12%.. .|...12%...|...12%...|...12%...| Planet B

However, when M theory is understood to the level the colonials have studied it, we might find that instead space is warped by the gravitational mass of the planets, such that if a purely random jump were made the odds of rematerializing at any random point would be more like.

Planet A|...38%...|...6%...|...3%...|...1%...|...1%...|.. .1%...|...1%...|...3%...|...6%...|...38%| Planet B

The mass of the planets so distorts the space between them that it is far more likely to rematerialize inside a massive body than near it. This makes the precision of the calculations much more important.

Jumping close to a planet is very dangerous. Since even the slightest of errors is going to be greatly exaggerated by the gravitational mass of the planet. Even jumping a fair distance from a planet poses danger since any error at all will always tend toward to push rematerialization strongly toward the greatest mass in the area.

Kara's single jump back to Caprica with a Raider revealed the Cylon FTL drive is far advanced. The Cylon drive itself might compensate for some jump calculation errors on the fly. Making adjustments just prior to rematerialization as it senses the space distortions near massive bodies.


It is very difficult to theorize regarding physics in Sci Fi but we can infer the probable extent of exploration with much greater confidants. We can know with much greater confidence the extent of the "red line" of charted space for the colonials. Check out my post "Red Line." Tell me what you think.

Jerry