Season 4: What the Hybrid said.

[Georgiotje]

Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves, the pain of that revelation, bringing true clarity. And amidst confusion, he will find her... Enemies brought together by the apostle, enemies now joined as one. The way forward, once impenetrable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, though still in the shadow yet clawing for the light, hungry for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all, the seven, now six self-described machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching, the agony of the one splintering into many. And then they will join in the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning.

This is what the Hybrid said in Razor to Kendra Shaw. I understand the first part about the four, glorious in awakening-> Final Four. I think that and amidst confusion, he will find her... points to Lee finding Kara. But then? Enemies brought together by the apostle, enemies now joined as one. Who is the apostle? I think that the apostle is Kara, so that would eliminate her as a Final Fiver? There is also another option, that's the option that Kara Thrace is the Final Cylon and that she is the Cylon apostle to unite the Final Five. I also had some thoughts about Baltar being the Final Cylon, but I skipped that part. But that would also mean that the Final Four/Five will ally themselves with The significant Seven/Six? The next part is about finding the road to Earth I think. And then it says: And the fifth, though still in the shadow yet clawing for the light, hungry for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I think that the Hybrid says that the last Final Fiver is still hidden and that he/she wants to be redeemed for things that she has done before or will do again. All this has happened before, and will happen again. The next part is about the six remaining Cylons(without Three) and the rebellion that will occur in season 4. But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching, the agony of the one splintering into many. The promised land ofcourse, is Earth. But gathered on the wings of an angel? The only angel I could think about right now is Battlestar Galactica, because she saved the remaining humans of extinction. Does dit mean that the survivors of the Cylon rebellion and the survivors of the Cylon holocaust will join together and live on Earth? Not the end of civilization, but the beginning of a new one? And then they will join in the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning.


Please tell me what you think:lol:.

[brokedown77]

I think Kara is the Angel (see the figure of Aurora she gave Adama in Maelstrom)

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

From the previews and ads, I will say the "he will find her" points to Saul Tigh association with Caprica Six. The apostle is up in the air, but that may be Baltar.

The one in need of redemption is Lee Adama, who has always tried to differentiate himself from his father, and to atone for the things he's done. (Refer to his speech in "Crossroads, Part II".)

The angel is either Kara... or Hera, since she is the "shape of things to come", whatever that truly means.

[Georgiotje]

Hmmm, very clever thinking there. I didn't think of the connection between Tigh and Caprica-Six because I never saw them together. I don't think the one in need of redemption is Lee Adama though, because the one in need of redemption is the Final Cylon. If Lee Adama is a Cylon, then the Old Man is a Cylon, or Lee his mother is a Cylon, or they kidnapped him when he was still a baby/kid. So that doesn't really make sense... I also think that the angel is Kara. Because Hera is not the only angel, Cally's kid is also a Hybrid, so if they wanted to point to the Hybrids, they would have probably used the word angels.

[NEXUX]

From the previews and ads, I will say the "he will find her" points to Saul Tigh association with Caprica Six. The apostle is up in the air, but that may be Baltar.

The one in need of redemption is Lee Adama, who has always tried to differentiate himself from his father, and to atone for the things he's done. (Refer to his speech in "Crossroads, Part II".)

The angel is either Kara... or Hera, since she is the "shape of things to come", whatever that truly means.

Are you one of the writers teams?
So briliant and vise aproach , I am totally agree with you.
I guess there will be 2 angels may be?
One will repsent human side and one to Cylon side so Kara and Hera both.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Are you one of the writers teams?
So briliant and vise aproach , I am totally agree with you.
I guess there will be 2 angels may be?
One will repsent human side and one to Cylon side so Kara and Hera both.

Nah. Just some who has thoughts from the peanut gallery. :D

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Hmmm, very clever thinking there. I didn't think of the connection between Tigh and Caprica-Six because I never saw them together. I don't think the one in need of redemption is Lee Adama though, because the one in need of redemption is the Final Cylon. If Lee Adama is a Cylon, then the Old Man is a Cylon, or Lee his mother is a Cylon, or they kidnapped him when he was still a baby/kid. So that doesn't really make sense... I also think that the angel is Kara. Because Hera is not the only angel, Cally's kid is also a Hybrid, so if they wanted to point to the Hybrids, they would have probably used the word angels.

The writers have said that they're basically ignoring Nicky and are focusing on Hera. (The question had come up before and I think RDM said that, but I don't have any link handy...) So "angel" probably refers to Hera exclusively, since Caprica is likely going to be Hera's protector.

As for Lee being a Cylon, I'd be interested to see how they'd pull that one off. My assumption is that he was either switched at birth, or was somehow "born" a Cylon.

However, the "Final Cylon" question aren't as important as "What is a human being?" and "Are we worthy of survival?"

[iheartthesystem]

I feel like I can't make the slightest sense of what the hybrid said but nevertheless I'll throw in my wild guesses (though Joe is most likely more right than me):
and amidst confusion, he will find her...It would be great if that points to Caprica/Tigh. Or it could be Lee/Kara (although I'd like it to point to Kara/Sam, being one of the few people who like Kara better with Sam than with Lee, even though I know that it'll be Lee/Kara in the end).
Enemies brought together by the apostle, enemies now joined as one.I don't have the slightest idea but my guess would be Kara- or Natalie, the new Six character in that "Last Supper" promo pic. I remember reading spoilers about her wanting to re-unite the 12 cylon models.
And the fifth, though still in the shadow yet clawing for the light, hungry for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.Totally makes me think of Baltar, mostly because of the redemption part. For some reason I also think of Kara due to the terrible suffering, even though I don't feel like she needs a lot of redeeming, at least in comparison with other characters. Lee would be a logical candidate for this too but without being able to give a reason for this, I feel he's not meant with this.
And then they will join in the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning. Kara is the angel IMO.

[UncleFracker]

The most this show is trying to convey is the roles that people play in life.
It's mostly about finding out who you are & what your purpose is. Now, the interesting thing about this is sometimes the roles change...but the story remains the same.

Laura Roslin - Dying Leader

Gaus Baltar - Protector of the "new generation of God's children"

Then, Roslin cures her cancer, and Baltar becomes president instead. Hera's death is faked. New Caprica begins!!!! and the roles change:

Starbuck - Dying Leader

Caprica-Six - Protector

[The Nubs]

The writers have said that they're basically ignoring Nicky and are focusing on Hera. (The question had come up before and I think RDM said that, but I don't have any link handy...) So "angel" probably refers to Hera exclusively, since Caprica is likely going to be Hera's protector.


If that is true that really makes me mad. I know that many shows especially sci-fi ones have plot holes, but this one is huge. How can you just ignore the fact that Nicky is a child of a cylon? If this is true it would really cause me to have a lesser opinion of the show as a whole and make me feel like I wasted so much time watching a show that just ignores something so big. Unless they can come up with a good reason as to why Nicky is different then Hera I just can't believe they would ignore him.

[Silusar]

One reason that Nick could not be like Hera. If the Final Five are reborn Cylons from the last circle. Then Nick could be another version of the chief (or clone). Nick would be a full Cylon.

Just a thougth of me.

[james968]

In one of the previews Kara is talking to a Hybrid

[Georgiotje]

In one of the previews Kara is talking to a Hybrid

What preview are you talking about? I didn't see it

[The Dirt]

I have some speculation about the meaning of these Hybrid utterances (from GWCTD):


The wing beat of the dove drown out the heartbeat of those who follow the sixes (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Number_Six) back in the stream.

Those who follow the sixes back in the stream = the rebel Cylons
The wing beat of the dove = the desire for peace? An analogy for the damaged rebel basestar?
Overall meaning -- no idea.


The Six (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Natalie) who went among the maker is no longer.

Ovearall meaning -- Natalie is dead (pretty obvious).



Back in the stream that feeds the ocean that feeds the stream.

The stream = the afterlife/death
The ocean = the living world
Overall meaning -- There seems to be some kind of recycling of souls, which feeds the cycle of time


Such a format will close the door.

Format = way of conducting yourself (Athena killing Natalie or the whole we kill them, they kill us, we kill more of them attitude)
Close the door = either breaking the cycle or not allowing the cycle to be broken

Overall meaning -- This either means that what Athena did would break the cycle or that it would perpetuate it (I tend to lean towards the latter, as Athena's actions are not seen as favorable, nor is the cycle)

[icklepants]

I have some speculation about the meaning of these Hybrid utterances (from GWCTD):


The wing beat of the dove drown out the heartbeat of those who follow the sixes (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Number_Six) back in the stream.



Peace can break the devil's cycle of life and death.

I like puzzle solving.

[Stairway]

That's funny, I've always interpreted "amidst the confusion he will find her" as Leoben finding Kara on the Demitrius. He said he had been looking for her.

[timbo]

I have some speculation about the meaning of these Hybrid utterances (from GWCTD):


The wing beat of the dove drown out the heartbeat of those who follow the sixes (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Number_Six) back in the stream.

Those who follow the sixes back in the stream = the rebel Cylons
The wing beat of the dove = the desire for peace? An analogy for the damaged rebel basestar?
Overall meaning -- no idea.


The Six (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Natalie) who went among the maker is no longer.

Ovearall meaning -- Natalie is dead (pretty obvious).



Back in the stream that feeds the ocean that feeds the stream.

The stream = the afterlife/death
The ocean = the living world
Overall meaning -- There seems to be some kind of recycling of souls, which feeds the cycle of time


Such a format will close the door.

Format = way of conducting yourself (Athena killing Natalie or the whole we kill them, they kill us, we kill more of them attitude)
Close the door = either breaking the cycle or not allowing the cycle to be broken

Overall meaning -- This either means that what Athena did would break the cycle or that it would perpetuate it (I tend to lean towards the latter, as Athena's actions are not seen as favorable, nor is the cycle)

I love this, Dirt. Don´t know if this really contributes anything, but I think it more likely that the stream is life, and the ocean is the pool (well) of souls waiting to reenter the stream.

[genji2000]

The Rebel Hybrid's Season Four utterances (from the Wiki and Twiz):

From Six Of One:
The excited state decays by vibrational relaxation into the first excited singlet state. Yes, yes and merrily we go. Reduce atmospheric nitrogen by 0.03%. It is not much consolation that society will pick up the bits, leaving us at eight modern where punishment, rather than interdiction, is paramount. Please, cut the fuse. They will not harm their own. End of line. Limiting diffusions to two dimensions increases the number of evolutionary jumps within the species. Rise and measure the temple of the five. Transformation is the goal. They will not harm their own. Data-font synchronization complete.

From Faith:

All these things at once and many more, not because it wishes harm but because it likes violent vibrations to change constantly: then shall the maidens rejoice at the dance. Structural integrity of node seven restored: repressurizing. The children of the one reborn shall find their own country. The intruders swarmed like flame, like the whirlwind, hopes soaring to slaughter all their best against our hulls... Replace internal control accumulators 4 through 19. They'll start going ripe on us pretty soon. Compartmentalize integrity conflicts with the obligation to provide access. FTL sync fault uncorrected. No ceremonies are necessary... then shall the maidens rejoice at the dance. Structural integrity of node seven restored: repressurizing. The children of the one reborn shall find their own country. End of line. Reset. Track mode monitor malfunction traced. Recharge compressors. Increase the output to 50%. Assume the relaxation length of photons... All these things at once and many more, not because it wishes... transfers contact is inevitable leading to information bleed. FTL sync fault stands uncorrected. No ceremonies are necessary... Centrifugal force reacts to the rotating frame of reference. The obstinate toy soldier becomes pliant. The city devours the land. The people devour the city... Assume the relaxation length of photons in the sample atmosphere is constant. The intruders swarmed like flame, like the whirlwind, hopes soaring to slaughter all their best against our hulls... All these things at once and many more, not because it wishes harm but because it likes violent vibrations to change constantly: then shall the maidens rejoice at the dance... Reset. Track mode monitor malfunction traced. But you are a spark of God's fire. Core update complete... Threat detection matrix enabled. Dendritic response bypassed. The received dose is altered by the delayed gamma burst. Going active. Execute. The children of the one reborn shall find their own country. End of line.

Thus will it come to pass: a Dying Leader will know the truth of the Opera House. The missing Three will give you the Five who have come from the home of the Thirteenth. You are the Harbinger of Death, Kara Thrace. You will lead them all to their end. End of line.

The Wiki pulls out these lines of note from Faith:

Then shall the maidens rejoice at the dance.
They'll start going ripe on us pretty soon.
Centrifugal force reacts to the rotating frame of reference.
The obstinate toy soldier becomes pliant.
The city devours the land, the people devour the city...
Intruders swarm like flame, like the whirlwind; hopes soaring to slaughter all their best against our hulls*.
All these things at once and many more, not because it wishes harm, because it likes violent vibrations to change constantly.
But you are a spark of God's fire.
The children of the one reborn shall find their own country.
Compartmentalize integrity conflicts with the obligation to provide access.
No ceremonies are necessary.
Contact is inevitable, leading to information bleed.
Assume the relaxation length of photons in the sample atmosphere is constant.

Thus will it come to pass. A** dying leader will know the truth of the Opera House. The missing Three will give you the Five who have come from the home of the Thirteenth. You are the harbinger of death, Kara Thrace. You will lead them all to their end. End of Line.

* I'm not convinced that this word is "hulls". It sounds more like "hopes" to me.
** I'm also not convinced this is "a dying leader"; I think it might be "the dying leader".

In Guess What's Coming To Dinner, Roslin gets the "JUMP!", and in The Hub, the Hybrid says:

Filters ... filters ... the sublime elevation of the lifters and the filters... elevation... control... filters ... filters - the sublime elevation of the lifters and the filters... booting up... booting up... JUMP!

... of the dove drown out the heartbeats of those who follow. The Six is back in the stream... [something] chestnut tree, the aft vents require optimisation... [something] back in the stream... the wingbeats of the dove drown out the heartbeats of those who follow. The Six is back in the stream...

The Six - the Six who went among the makers is no longer. End of line. Back in the stream that feeds the ocean that feeds the stream... [indecipherable] reload the [indecipherable]... the wingbeats of the drown out the heartbeats of the [indecipherable]... the wingbeats of the dove drown out the heartbeats of those who follow. The Six is back in the stream... reload the [indecipherable] complete. The wingbeats of the dove drown out the heartbeats of those who follow... the wingbeats of the dove drown out the heartbeats of those who follow. Calm your mind. Cease countdown. Cease countdown. Circulation, ventilation, control. Filters ... filters ... the sublime elevation of the lifters and the filters... booting up... booting up... JUMP!

And a little later:

...such a format will close the doors. Protect the child. Protect the child... filters... booting up... booting up... manually entered format will protect the system, such a format will close the doors...

Three! The Three is online. The Three is online. Accessing data. Loading data. [indecipherable] booting up... booting up... JUMP!

And near the end:

To remove the pump with the attached hose and wiring, simultaneously release the three tangs while pulling the pump out of the retainer along with the line and wiring... JUMP!

The Wiki pulls out these lines as significant:

Filters, Filters, the sublime elevation of the lifter and the filters...
The wingbeats of the dove drown out the heartbeat of those who follow the Sixes back in the stream.
The Six who went among the maker is no longer*.
Back in the stream that feeds the ocean that feeds the stream.
Such a format will close the door.
The three is online.
Protect the child.
To remove the pump with the attached hose and wiring, simultaneously release the three tangs while pulling the pump out of the retainer along with the line and wiring.

* I'm not convinced the Wiki has "those who follow the Sixes back in the stream" right. It's not grammatically correct (it should be "into the stream"), the Hybrid always pauses after "follow", indicating a full stop, and "the Sixes" doesn't always come after "those who follow", but anyway...

[Shadow Rider]

The dove thing, I think that relates to Baltar talking about how he realizes that God made us all perfect and "all his guilt has [flown] away, [flown] away like a bird." This makes me think that the his "wing beat" is stronger than those of the rebel cylons. Whatever that means for story...not quite sure yet. =P

[genji2000]

From Six Of One:

Yes, yes, and merrily we go.

This might refer to the inevitable, slavish adherence to the cycle of time, or to the Twos, Sixes and Eights' careless march to rebellion.

It is not much consolation that society will pick up the bits, leaving us at eight modern where punishment, rather than interdiction, is paramount.

I have no idea what "eight modern" is. It's a gallery of modern art in Santa Fe in our world.

"... punishment, rather than interdiction" - might this refer to the boxing of the Threes?

The entire line is spoken against that Basestar piano music, which seems to accentuate the dolefulness of the line.

Please, cut the fuse. They will not harm their own.

This might be the Hybrid imploring the Cylons to stop the cycle, or her reflection on the impending Cylon rebellion, or a call to the Twos, Sixes and Eights to rebel, and a mistaken belief that the Ones, Fours and Fives will not attack.

Or it could mean the opposite - "the fuse" being the rebellion that is fermenting in the minds of the Twos, Sixes and Eights, which the Hybrid implores them to snuff out because the Cavil-contingent are not their enemies.

Limiting diffusions to two dimensions increases the number of evolutionary jumps within the species.

Anyone?

Rise and measure the temple of the five.

"Rise" again could be a call to arms, to rebel, to stand up to the Cavil-contingent, to measure themselves against god's will and the purpose of the Final Five. Without the original script's capitalisation we can't tell if "temple of the five" means the physical temple on the algae planet, or the religion itself.

Transformation is the goal. They will not harm their own.

Is "transformation" the same as "evolution"? Whose "transformation" is "the goal"?

[genji2000]

From Faith:

All these things at once and many more, not because it wishes harm but because it likes violent vibrations to change constantly...

"... it likes violent vibrations to change constantly" can be read differently, perhaps as "it likens violent vibrations to constant change", but to stick with a surface reading...

"All of these things" I would guess to be: "the intruders swarmed like flame, like the whirlwind, hopes soaring to slaughter all their best against our hulls." MHall and Timbo have discussed overlapping or intertwined multiple cycles, which fits with "all of these things at once, and many more."

What "it" is, I don't know - maybe MHall's the One Whose Name Cannot Be Spoken, or the original programmer. Perhaps it is the cycle of time, the cycle of creation and destruction.

... then shall the maidens rejoice at the dance.

This calls The Rite of Spring to mind, the new age after the apocalypse (as the new year follows winter). All together, I think this line is an expression of the cycle.

Structural integrity of node seven restored...

I know this is probably Basestar maintenance, or a report on the resurrection servers, but I like the allusion to the missing model Seven, possibly the Final Cylon.

The children of the one reborn shall find their own country.

The "one reborn" could again be MHall's the One Whose Name Cannot Be Spoken. It might be Kara, but I don't know who her children might be at this stage. It could be Baltar (I'll bring up the theory that he died in the Caprica blast and was reincarnated like Kara, but I still don't buy into it), whose rebirth might mean his enlightenment (a rather elongated process that occurs between Exodus and Crossroads). As the 'father' of Hera (and her descendants), this would mean that they reach their promised land. Less convincingly, it might mean Roslin, reborn after being saved by Hera's blood, reborn after this episode, in which she shares a vision of heaven/Elysium with Emily, or reborn after her visions of Elosha during the Basestar jumps, and her 'children' might be the RTF.

The intruders swarmed like flame, like the whirlwind, hopes soaring to slaughter all their best against our hulls...

Do we know for sure that she says "against our hulls" and not "against our hopes" or something else?

I'm not sure if this is an account of the Blaze on Kobol, or the Fall of the Colonies, or if it's a prophecy of what is to come, likely regarding Earth.

The obstinate toy soldier becomes pliant.

Could be Helo, reigning in his usual "do the right thing" instincts to follow Roslin's order regarding bringing D'Anna alone to her. Could be Lee, now a civilian politican, who seeks the middle way and proposes an alliance with the rebel Cylons. Or might it be Adama, who becomes (always was, since the Miniseries) pliant for Roslin?

The city devours the land. The people devour the city.

The generic city state, as of Rome or Caprica City? The Cylon Homeworld, which perhaps had to be abandoned once all resources were consumed? Or maybe the city across the water in Revelations?

But you are a spark of God's fire.

Is this to Kara? Or rather, to the Herald of the Apocalypse? And might it bring us back to the Hybrid's first words in this episode:

All these things at once and many more, not because it wishes harm but because it likes violent vibrations to change constantly...

Is the role of the Herald of the Apocalypse by necessity played by one writhing in anguish and violence?

[The Dirt]

I love this, Dirt. Don´t know if this really contributes anything, but I think it more likely that the stream is life, and the ocean is the pool (well) of souls waiting to reenter the stream.

You're totally right. I just re-read it and it makes more sense this way.


Genji - good analysis. How did you have the time to do all that?

[genji2000]

I love this, Dirt. Don´t know if this really contributes anything, but I think it more likely that the stream is life, and the ocean is the pool (well) of souls waiting to reenter the stream.

You're totally right. I just re-read it and it makes more sense this way.

No. Natalie dies, and the Hybrid says "the Six is back in the stream."

[Wouter]

Enemies brought together by the apostle, enemies now joined as one. .
I thought the actual quote was: "enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one". No apostle involved, I think.

those who follow the sixes (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Number_Six) back in the stream.
As genjo noted, there were no "sixes" in the hybrid talk.

[Shadow Rider]

But you are a spark of God's fire.

Is this to Kara? Or rather, to the Herald of the Apocalypse?


I think this relates to what the hybrid said to Baltar when she reached out for him and said, "Intelligence. A mind that burns like a fire." Which makes me think that there is some God controlling events in some way.

[ThPrime]

I think this relates to what the hybrid said to Baltar when she reached out for him and said, "Intelligence. A mind that burns like a fire." Which makes me think that there is some God controlling events in some way.
One of the new deleted scenes from Escape Velocity cracked me up and reminded me of this. Maybe everyone with a special destiny needs a brain scan series, by someone other than Doc Cottle. Let's look at Baltar in chronological order:

"Maybe you see and hear me because while you were sleeping, I implanted a chip in your brain that transmits my image, right into your conscious mind.

No, no, no. See, that's me again." - Head Six, Baltar, miniseries

"Intelligence! A mind that burns like a fire!
Yes, I'm here." - Hybrid, Baltar, The Passage

"Your strength doesn’t come from numbers, it's fueled by the divinity burning inside you.
I know, I feel the burning inside my head. There is one god and he lives in us all." - Head Six, Baltar, deleted scene Escape Velocity

[Pnutmaster]

"Your strength doesn’t come from numbers, it's fueled by the divinity burning inside you.
I know, I feel the burning inside my head. There is one god and he lives in us all." - Head Six, Baltar, deleted scene Escape Velocity

Divinity burning inside you, eh? It's one thing to say you are God's creation, respect thy maker. Another thing to say you have divinity ;)

[Neakal]

Comes kinda close to what Leoben says about how "We are all God" eh?

[thevarrior]

Divinity burning inside you, eh? It's one thing to say you are God's creation, respect thy maker. Another thing to say you have divinity ;)

Not entirely. Sounds a lot like the holy spirit in Christianity. Of course, it also sounds a lot like atman in Hinduism, but the writers are pretty eclectic.

[genji2000]

Genji - good analysis. How did you have the time to do all that?

I just thought it was a good choice of thread to resurrect, so I pumped in all the Season Four Hybrid quotes and gave me take on a couple in the hope that others would follow your lead and have a bash.

Car's in the garage so I took a couple of days off (I fear (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7667499.stm) public transport) to slob around and get involved in a few discussions.

[icklepants]

From Six Of One:
Yes, yes, and merrily we go.
It is not much consolation that society will pick up the bits, leaving us at eight modern where punishment, rather than interdiction, is paramount.

I have no idea what "eight modern" is. It's a gallery of modern art in Santa Fe in our world.

Please, cut the fuse. They will not harm their own.
This might be the Hybrid imploring the Cylons to stop the cycle, or her reflection on the impending Cylon rebellion, or a call to the Twos, Sixes and Eights to rebel, and a mistaken belief that the Ones, Fours and Fives will not attack.

Or it could mean the opposite - "the fuse" being the rebellion that is fermenting in the minds of the Twos, Sixes and Eights, which the Hybrid implores them to snuff out because the Cavil-contingent are not their enemies.
Limiting diffusions to two dimensions increases the number of evolutionary jumps within the species.
Anyone?
Transformation is the goal. They will not harm their own.
Is "transformation" the same as "evolution"? Whose "transformation" is "the goal"?

Just a couple of things, sorry about the splicing of your quote I am useless with these things.

Merrily we go sounds like a cute reference to the stream of life myself, ever row row rowed your boat?

Punishment rather than interdiction? Interdiction is the cutting off of supplies before the battle field, either by destroying or holding off supplies or new troops. Interesting that destroying the hub actually accomplished both the supplies and the new troops... Not sure where the punishment is though.

Unsure about the fuse, it's a trigger. Cut the fuse implies you should stop something blowing up.

Limiting the two dimensions sounds like putting cylon with "human" and the evolutionary jump has already happened by Hera's blood not containing antigens(?)

Transformation being the goal sounds like the future is to splice together Cylon and human as it is the only way mankind can survive, whether it be due to war or disease.

[genji2000]

Just a couple of things, sorry about the splicing of your quote I am useless with these things.

:)

Merrily we go sounds like a cute reference to the stream of life myself, ever row row rowed your boat?

Could be... I just googled it, expecting to find it to be some nonsense song in Shakespeare, but apparently there's a 1932 movie with Cary Grant called Merrily We Go To Hell.

Limiting the two dimensions sounds like putting cylon with "human" and the evolutionary jump has already happened by Hera's blood not containing antigens(?)

Sort of like, [100% human + 100% Cylon] increases the evolutionary jumps, rather than [100% Cylon + F5 Cylon] or [100% human + F5 Cylon], so Nicky and Caprica Six's child are somehow 'less' than Hera?

[icklepants]

I think creation between two types of Cylon is not the way forward, whether they are fundamtentally different or not. The concept is that Cylons have not been able to survive as a race alone, they destroyed their own planet (potentially) and when they tried to recreate life to prolong their existance, for some reason that also went wrong (this is a theory obviously). The only answer for the continuation of Cylon life is to reproduce with humans. humans are immune to the disease that killed the Cylons, so are Cylons that carry human children, this coupled with the fact that cancer (obviously not a cancer we know) can be curtailed with cylon-human blood bodes well to evolutionary progression.

In order to re-start the species as human-cylon hybrids you would have to wipe out nearly the entire of the human populace and start making babies. The problem is (and once again I am over-theorising) if humans and cylons repeatedly have been unable to live as one without war or disease wiping each other out, then it is a bit of a plan to make them the same as "they will not harm their own".

Completely random but everytime we talk about this stream/cycle of life, all I can think about is salmon going back to the place they were born to give birth and then die...have no idea of the relevence but I'm bored of Greek/Roman/etc mythology having the answer, the answer should be "fish" ;)

[The Dirt]

You know, they say that salmon is a lot healthier than tilapia. Salmon has a lot of Omega-6 fatty acids, while tilapia has a lot of Omega-3s. Tilapia has so much Omega-3 that it's as bad as eating red meat. Furthermore, tilapia is a very hardy fish that survives in conditions that most other fish cannot. This brings me to my next point... tilapia are like the Cylons... they can survive where humans (the salmon) cannot, and they reproduce a lot faster (downloading into a new body), while the salmon is more fragile and they have to swim upstream to reproduce (giving birth). In essence, the Cylons represent an abundance of Omega-3s, while the humans represent Omega-6. If you think about that hard enough, the Sixes always represented sexuality and virility. It's no wonder that Caprica Six is carrying a child, while D'Anna (Three) is not, and has been boxed.

[Batman316]

O.o

Stoners rock!

[The Dirt]

Jesus also represent Pisces. That's why we see the "Jesus Fish". I think the Picons are the key. And, who was born on Picon? That's right, Samuel T. Anders. The T stands for Jesus.

[Batman316]

Tory, Tigh, Tyroll, Samual T Anders..... all four are part of some cosmic Jesus Fish? People I think you're reaching a little.

[Prolescum]

Eurgh. There seems to be a pro-fish bias on this forum that makes me feel queasy.

[icklepants]

Jesus also represent Pisces. That's why we see the "Jesus Fish". I think the Picons are the key. And, who was born on Picon? That's right, Samuel T. Anders. The T stands for Jesus.

or "Trout" but they're not nearly as exciting.

[The Dirt]

People I think you're reaching a little.

Yes. We're all reaching for some fish and chips. Except, Scummy, there, only likes land meats.

[Batman316]

...... ok so maybe.... The Jesus Fish bring the Colonials to Earth. There they find all Christians are wiped out by the Muslims. The Taliban come out of hiding, discover the Jesus Fish Christian Cylons exist and continue their Jihad!

or

Ohhhh the FF were created by the Taliban and sent to the colonies because they ran out of christians on Earth. Little hard to have a war without an enemy so they create their own.

hmm the second part seems a little American to me

[fr33lancer]

From Six Of One:
Rise and measure the temple of the five."Rise" again could be a call to arms, to rebel, to stand up to the Cavil-contingent, to measure themselves against god's will and the purpose of the Final Five. Without the original script's capitalisation we can't tell if "temple of the five" means the physical temple on the algae planet, or the religion itself.

This reminded me of Revelation Chapter 11:

And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.


In this case the measuring was of what was holy i.e measuring the people within that they are worthy.

With reference to the temple on the algae planet and the five themselves: The bible also uses "temple" in both cases. A pysical temple which was destroyed in 70 AD by the Romans and the temple that is described as the human body. In one sense while the physical temple which was destroyed, it was/is carried on through the body, ie that which is holy.

I think the correlation of this statement to it's biblical source is pretty clear and it would reenforce the significance of the five and their elevated status as that which is holy.

[ThPrime]

This reminded me of Revelation Chapter 11:


In this case the measuring was of what was holy i.e measuring the people within that they are worthy.
Yes. Nicely observed! But continue along in Revelation 11 and compare it against subsequent events. Who is listening to the hybrid as she says this? What do they do? Afterward and much later, what happens to Natalie and I assume this very same generic Eight that are first introduced in Six of One?

Look who is superimposed on this scene of the two receiving their prophecy from the hybrid, topless Tai Chi Boomer. Nice symbolic touch, Boomer who stands alone and sides with the unbelievers who will soon be cast out. I do not suppose season four will run in parallel to the Book of Revelation in any great detail, or that one is any kind of roadmap for the other. But maybe the visual here foreshadows that Boomer has her own Revelation styled role yet to play, far and above being Cavil's pet.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8917/twowitnesseskw4.jpg

[Batman316]

It it actually Boomer or just another 8 with a naked tai chi fetish? To be honest I can't remember this scene that well... but if it is OUR Boomer superimposed, adding what we know about her having a larger part to play in the concluding 10 eps...

I think we got a live one here

Nice pick-up Mr Prime

[Wouter]

It is Boomer. There is no other 8 involved with Cavil.

[fr33lancer]

Very intersting Prime. So by your account (and not saying that RDM is running as yousay parallel with revelation) 8 & natalie as the two witnesses?

Interesting. Thanks

[genji2000]

It is not much consolation that society will pick up the bits, leaving us at eight modern where punishment, rather than interdiction, is paramount.

I have no idea what "eight modern" is.

This might be flogging a dead horse, but if so then the thread will just go to sleep again. I do think the Hybrids know what's going on though and I don't think we should give up trying to interpret their words.

I don't know the correct etiquette for this and I hope ThPrime doesn't take offence but IMO it's an interesting topic. He brought up one of his older scifi.com posts earlier today so I'm just going to reproduce it (http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2305517&st=20&p=5147557&#) here:



You might think I google spammed these phrases to find related meanings, but I couldn't possibly comment

"Yes, yes and merrily we go."

Seems to be a reference to 17th century English poet Abraham Cowley, popular in his own day. The line is from his ballad, Cheer up, My Mates stylized as a sea shanty and since the poem is dedicated to Francis Drake, you could take the poem to be a hearty pirate song.

"Cheer up, my mates, the wind does fairly blow,
Clap on more sail, and never spare;
Farewell all lands, for now we are
In the wide sea of drink, and merrily we go."

There is also the 1932 film Merrily We Go To Hell, where the debonaire alcoholic rogue utters the title phrase to toast his own drinks, likely a pun on this same Cowley poem.

The hybrid then, seems to be issuing a call to arms.

"It is not much consolation that society will pick up the bits, leaving us at eight modern, where punishment rather than interdiction is paramount."

Comes from of all places, the floor of the British House of Commons during the 1953 debate over the Prevention of Crime Act. Where an uncredited member of Parliament said, "society ought to undertake the defence of its members, nevertheless one has to remember that there are many places where society cannot get, or cannot get there in time. On those occasions a man has to defend himself and those whom he is escorting. It is not much consolation that society will come forward a great deal later, pick up the bits, and punish the violent offender."

Opponents of gun control, American and English alike, frequently use this very speech as ammunition for their cause. Here are two examples written by Joyce Malcom, England's History of Failure and Gun Control's Twisted Outcome

The hybrid then, seems to be saying the consequences of inaction are intolerable, reliance on authority is not a solution. Or in so many words, "Got a problem? Grab your gun and solve it yourself." This is the second time she's used "eight" the first is from her debut appearance in the episode Torn: "The embryo becomes a fish that we don't enter until eight plate."

Basically she might saying, stand by and do nothing and the "final five" in the human fleet will die permanently, for this cycle, leaving us with eight modern Cylons. If true, this has many implications about the nature of the final Cylon. Might want to mull that one over at length.

"Please, cut the fuse."

Going back to The Passage, "Under pressure-heat ratio ides of evolutions have buried their fears." This is wrong. The season three DVD subtitles have, "Under pressure heat ratio. Ions of evolution have buried their fuse."

Literally, cut the fuse buried by ions of evolution. Ion evolution is an actual scientific term. However even reading it in different contexts gives me not the slightest clue what it means. Is there a physicist in the house?

"Rise, and measure the temple of the five."

Many here shouldn't need Google to recognize this one. It's paraphrasing a line from the last gospel of the New Testament, the Book of Revelations, also known as The Apocalypse of John.

Chapter 11, verse 1: "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein."

There's no shortage of scholarly interpretation associated with this passage and Revelations as a whole, so I'll defer to that mountain of work. However now's the time to point out that Natalie and the generic Eight are seen listening intently to the hybrid as she says all of the above. There are no other Cylons present in the hybrid room. The next verses in Revelations go on to describe Two Witnesses and apparently the hybrid sees Natalie and the Eight as fulfilling this role, or in general the Cylon models Six and Eight.

The hybrid babble might simply be the writer's ongoing inside joke, or snarky obscure hints really unnecessary for viewing enjoyment. Either way, much of it is plain old fashioned foreshadowing.

He also linked grrl_unscripted (http://grrl-unscripted.livejournal.com/6447.html)'s take on it:



The excited state decays by vibrational relaxation into the first excited singlet state.
Yes, yes and merrily we go.
Reduce atmospheric nitrogen by 0.03%.
It is not much consolation that society will pick up the bits, leaving us at eight modern where punishment, rather than interdiction, is paramount.
Please, cut the fuse. They will not harm their own. End of line.
Limiting diffusions to two dimensions increases the number of evolutionary jumps within the species.
Rise and measure the temple of the five. Transformation is the goal. They will not harm their own. Data-font synchronization complete.

"Eight Modern" - there are EIGHT not SEVEN standard models of humanoid cylons. We're missing one. Not only that but moving from a society that is structured by punishment (or discipline) rather than interdiction is a move from invisible psychic/physical laws to those that are negotiated and must be reinforced through action to gain credibility. Or in short, something Foucault said like a bazillion-jillion times. Only this is a developing society, so we get to see how it evolves naturally as they become more human. Plus, free will = a right to create and reject "law."
"Limiting diffusions" - this is driving me nuts. Reference to binary code? Reference to the binary of cylons and humans, only mix the two not with other species, wait what? cylons and humans and other? grr. or two dimensions meaning, cylon-human hybrids must only mix with other cylon-human hybrids, and humans with cylons, to make the evolutionary jumps more quickly? ie- no hybrids mixing with pure cylons or pure humans?
yes yes we know they won't harm their own. who are their own? ;)
cut the fuse- is that the five anyhow or is it something else?
transformation is the goal. the ultimate scifi question of course, transform into what?
I love you basestar-hybrid. When I can't sleep at night, your cryptic ramblings are the koan that keeps my mind occupied until it numbs itself from sheer exhaustion, and I can finally rest.

COMMENTS:
This is very interesting!

Interdiction (programming or whatever which says you must not think of the Final Five) v. punishment (you will be punished for doing so). Seems to be the path Cavil tried to put the Cylons on.

They will not harm their own? The Raiders wouldn't attack the fleet once they sensed the Final Five were there?

Or this: Rise and measure the temple of the five. Transformation is the goal. They will not harm their own.
is all about the Final Five. Were the Final Five the priests who worshipped in the temple built for the god who couldn't be named? The Five are with the humans and think of themselves as human, and thus won't harm the humans? Transformation is the goal: the Five will perhaps be the bridge between the humans and the Cylons?

Okay I'm making no actual connections to anything so I'm going to stop now. I need to pay more attention to hybrids. But hybrids confuse me.
Hybrids confuse me too! Originally I was going to link to the Battlestar Wiki that lists all of the cryptic hybrid quotes (so um there it is). But it was too much for me! This one is mind-boggling alone.

Now I'm wondering if there has to be a single meaning to each phrase. You meaning "They will not harm their own" as the raiders as well... I didn't even think of that!!! You've kind of convinced me that it is necessarily multi-layered and each possible reading is potentially truthful, like all good religious text.
Just wanted to say that I thought that "they will not harm their own" meant that humans will not harm the final five as long as they perceive them as humans.
Interesting! I'm still on a multiple meanings bent, I must admit, but I really love this interpretation as one of them :D
Thanks for stopping by!

Also: I hadn't looked at this in quite awhile, glad I did because I noticed "cut the fuse" - a reference to the hybrid being unplugged temporarily?

[ThPrime]

Not at all. Have at it. Check out all of grrl_unscripted's BSG tagged (http://grrl-unscripted.livejournal.com/tag/) posts, old and new. Don't mind the OMG/slash/squee stuff. :lol:

Since there are two acceptable pronunciations of the word "Aeons," maybe this was the actual scripted word and Tiffany mispronounced it. Especially in light of the recent "thousands" sighting in the Top Ten Things video, aeons fits in very well.

[icklepants]

We will not harm their own does to me sound like the only way Cylons and humans can ever co-exist is to become one type of being rather than separate factions. When you can't quite easily draw the line between human and cylon, the self-destructive tendencies of the groups could subside. If the human race is getting smaller and smaller, as is the cylon, surely transformation is the goal.

Also I thought interdiction was cutting off supplies/armies en route to battle? Exactly like knocking out the Hub.

[smelly_feet]

Please tell me what you think:lol:.

I really think that everything that the hybrid said will not happen until the final episode of the series.

[Prolescum]

Even the stuff that's evidently already happened? That's one serious mindf*ck.

[Batman316]

This sounds like a interesting exercise.

*goes to copy quote to notebook

[jerrywickey]

In the Razor episode, as the Galactica strike team neared the hybrid aboard an old Cylon basestar which had fled Cavil's fleet long ago and which appearently did not beleive or take advantage of the final five's offer of skin job and reserection technology, the ship's hybrid said these words.


"At last they've come for me."
"They" is probably not just the assault team but the whole human race.


"I feel their lives, their destinies spilling out before me. The denial of the one true path played out on a world not their own will end soon enough."
The human race denies one true god in favor of polytheism, but is the "world not their own" the twelve worlds of the colonies or is it Kobol?


"Soon there will be four glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves. The pain of revelation bringing new clarity."
The "four glorious" are, of course, Tyrol, Tigh, Anders and Tory. They struggle with the knowledge of their true selves as Tory embraces it. Tigh rejects it. Anders and Chief continue to struggle.


"And in the midst of confusion he will find her."
Tigh finds Ellen, the fifth.


"Enemies brought together by impossible longing. Enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable yet inevitable."
Obviously the Cylon, human alliance. Both want Earth. This alliance was certainly unthinkable and given their equal passion for Earth also inevitable.


"And the fifth still in shadow will claw toward the light hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering."
The "fifth still in shadow" is, of course Ellen. The shadow under which the final four still live will be illuminated by Ellen but only in the course of great suffering. The suffering began with Ellen escaping Cavil's brain butchery and the rest of the redemption will be forth coming as the next three episodes unfold.


"I can see them all. The seven now six self described machines.who believe themselves with out sin, but in time it is sin that will consume them."
D'Anna, "the seven now six," is boxed by Cavil who describes himself a machine. Cavil will ultimately fail. But that does not mean that Galactica must succeed, in the same way the colonists had hoped anyway.


"They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many."
The Cylon civil war.


"And then they will join the promised land gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end but a beginning."
These last two sentences are the final three episodes....

Who or what is the Angel? Is this Starbuck who leads them to the end which is not an end. Where is the promised land? To where does she lead them? To Pythia Earth? Is that the same location to which her feelings led her in the Demetrius before the Cylon civil war distracted them?

Who is joined? All Cylons or just three and the final five and the colonists? How will the end be the beginning?

Jerry

[Vesihiisi]

"Soon there will be four glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves. The pain of revelation bringing new clarity."

The "four glorious" are, of course, Tyrol, Tigh, Anders and Tory. They struggle with the knowledge of their true selves as Tory embraces it. Tigh rejects it. Anders and Chief continue to struggle.I would have thought it obvious after the last episodes that struggling with the knowledge of their true selves refers to the fact that Cavil had blocked them from remembering their true identities. The prophecy does not contain any element of a differing reaction to the knowledge.

Why do you support a different interpretation (that appears outdated by a couple of episodes)? It seems to me that they all have pretty much accepted who they are. I admit that Anders is struggling currently, but that struggle is most obviously of a different nature.

[Static_Shadow]

I've thought about this throughout all of season 4. Thus far, pretty much everything has happened according to as the First Hybrid spoke. About the only thing we have left is to figure out the angel, and what exactly this "promised land" will be. Ultimately though, it appears all those expecting a nihilistic ending haven't paid much thought to how this prophecy ends.

On a side note, all I can do is chuckle about the seven now six and the "wrenching" line. The random 8 sure came to know of wrenching last episode. LMAO

[sensational]

Jerry
which means to me that god fake being zero but he is under that is why god cant tolerate a presence of one

[Static_Shadow]

which means to me that god fake being zero but he is under that is why god cant tolerate a presence of one

lolwut?

[sensational]

lolwut?
signing his post off for him it is something special and new like he is believing he has new thoughts not resaying somebody elses he read somplace

I know who is writng the post it says so at the top