Question on the final cylon

[The Nubs]

I have been thinking about who the final cylon is as I am sure most of us have been. One question I have about the final cylon is are they some sort of leader of the final five and that is the reason why we haven't seen them yet or are they final five using the same decision process as the other 7(6)? I'm just curious as to if the final model is the one who some how activated the other four or if it was simply programming that did it.

[timbo]

Why is everyone so blindly accepting tigh and the others as cylons. Think beyond the hype, smokescreen semi confirmations and clue riddled posters. Think back to that "Oh my god, we are cylons and have been from the beginning". Every series has finished with a moment like this that you just know is not going to be true. I think we have something bigger in store than "pin the tail on the donkey - spot the cylon". Look at the brave enough thread and let me know what you think.
If I am completely wrong , I will toss myself out of the nearest airlock.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Hmm... That would be a good point, if this weren't the final season.

However, it is and they really need to wrap up many of the major story lines, so throwing out red-herrings like a fake "Four of the Final Five" is ridiculous.

The main focus of the season: Earth, The Final Cylon, and Kara Thrace.

[timbo]

Okay, I know all the evidence is against me, but I cant shake the conviction that the "watchtower four" are not cylons. What I meant by season ending cliffhangers is that we saw Adama apparently fatally shot, but we knew he would survive. This Time we saw Tigh saying we four are cylons, and I made the same jump in my mind that they are not. That "we are cylons and have been from the start" moment couldn,t have been more hammy if Tigh had turned, put his hands on his cheeks and stared into the camera as he said it. If it were really true they would have let us make the assumption ourselves from them all hearing the music, not spelled it out in giant letters. I am not saying that the creators are misleading its audience, I am sayin that they have been as ambiguous with their responses when pushed about what will happen as the y have been with the characters and storylines - which for me is one of the things that has made it so compulsive

[The Nubs]

Okay, I know all the evidence is against me, but I cant shake the conviction that the "watchtower four" are not cylons. What I meant by season ending cliffhangers is that we saw Adama apparently fatally shot, but we knew he would survive. This Time we saw Tigh saying we four are cylons, and I made the same jump in my mind that they are not. That "we are cylons and have been from the start" moment couldn,t have been more hammy if Tigh had turned, put his hands on his cheeks and stared into the camera as he said it. If it were really true they would have let us make the assumption ourselves from them all hearing the music, not spelled it out in giant letters. I am not saying that the creators are misleading its audience, I am sayin that they have been as ambiguous with their responses when pushed about what will happen as the y have been with the characters and storylines - which for me is one of the things that has made it so compulsive

If you go on your theory that happens in the season finally doesn't really take place then how do you explain the cylon occupation on new caprica? Going by your theory that shouldn't have happened and when the next season began the cylons should have been gone.

[bazzyb]

Why is everyone so blindly accepting tigh and the others as cylons. Think beyond the hype, smokescreen semi confirmations and clue riddled posters. Think back to that "Oh my god, we are cylons and have been from the beginning". Every series has finished with a moment like this that you just know is not going to be true. I think we have something bigger in store than "pin the tail on the donkey - spot the cylon". Look at the brave enough thread and let me know what you think.
If I am completely wrong , I will toss myself out of the nearest airlock.


Interesting ideas however various sources across the web have quoted RDM clearly confirming that the 4 are in fact cylons.
Have a look at www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm)

[timbo]

Nubs - good point. I am going to stand in the corner now for half an hour as punishment.

BazzyB - Okay, the evidence is mounting, I am nearly ready to accept defeat.

Double teamed - very effective.

To both of you, I would say that It does appear that I am wrong, but my conviction is growing that this puzzle isn´t really important. The big questions for me are how does the history repeating itself idea fit with the themes of self knowledge, personal identity, faith and some sort of contact with God, however you may concieve himto be. These are the real themes of the show, I think.

[timbo]

Now, you are probably going to all laugh at me now, which wont be aything new, but I just had a great/crazy idea. I still dont think that Tigh and co are the final four, but it looks like I have to accept that they are cylons. I think that maybe in the end everyone is a cylon to some extent, in a "we are all brothers under the skin sort of way". If this has all happened before, then there have been hybrids before, which means it is possible that the whole human gene pool could have been dilluted to a greater or lesser degree by cylon blood in the past. Every redneck fascist has a bit of jewish blood in him, the same as everyone in Spain has a little moorish blood. This may be part of the path toward reconcilliation. Everyone on the Gallactica is more or less human, but just cylon enough to mean that RDM wasn´t lying when he said they were cylons. The real answers here need some out of the box thinking.

[The Nubs]

Now, you are probably going to all laugh at me now, which wont be aything new, but I just had a great/crazy idea. I still dont think that Tigh and co are the final four, but it looks like I have to accept that they are cylons. I think that maybe in the end everyone is a cylon to some extent, in a "we are all brothers under the skin sort of way". If this has all happened before, then there have been hybrids before, which means it is possible that the whole human gene pool could have been dilluted to a greater or lesser degree by cylon blood in the past. Every redneck fascist has a bit of jewish blood in him, the same as everyone in Spain has a little moorish blood. This may be part of the path toward reconcilliation. Everyone on the Gallactica is more or less human, but just cylon enough to mean that RDM wasn´t lying when he said they were cylons. The real answers here need some out of the box thinking.

Timbo, once you are done standing in the corner please be sure to rejoin the group for more discussions.

Anyway, I agree that there has to be some meaning to this has all happened before and it will happen again. But the question is how literal do the writers want to make that. I put a theory out there at one point saying that in the end they will reference the orginal series as it happening before. Obviously, I wasn't serious but that was a very literal suggestion as to what that means. I think that what the this has happened before is about is that history does usually repeat itself in some way. Nations rise and fall. Army's march across lands and defeat everyone and build an empire until someone else comes along and defeats them and builds their empire. I think that will be the meaning of the this has happened before that they are talking about. I think the cylons are taking a to literal approach to that which will be part of their downfall.

My opinion is that in the end there will be some sort of truce to coexist and join with the remaining humans to build a better society. Now obviously once the cylons learned how to reproduce they became a different society. I think they will have to give up the ability to resurect and integrate with what is remaining human society in some way. Over time they cyclon will go away and someone will once again build machines to help the humans. Thus repeating the process over again.

As for the final five. I belive the four we know are in fact cylons and the fifth is someone of a great significance to them. I also think that the fifth knows that they are a cylon and always has. I think that the final five have a differenet form of resurection than the other seven and have been around for ages.

[caprica_six]

Interesting ideas however various sources across the web have quoted RDM clearly confirming that the 4 are in fact cylons.
Have a look at www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm)

I agree with you too, why are you guys questioning the writers??
I think thier choices for the final 4 were very good and just

here we go again with:
Tori = Roslin
Tigh = Adama
Anders = Kara
Tyrol = Galactica

I agree with your speculations on the blood thing, I do. I just think that the FINAL 5 have achieved so much more than the Significant 7. I don't think they can download or ressurect. Listen to All Along the Watchtower, it says it in there; "There are many of us here among us, feel that life is but a joke. But you and I have been through that and this is not our fate."

That right there says it all to me.That they have gone to the next level that they are born into life. Any comments?

[timbo]

R
Really, I am not disagreeing with the writers, I think they have written something really special. What I want to say is that the whole" who is a cylon thing" will turn out to be not so important. The "this has happened before thing" may be referring to some of man´s acts of great good and great evil, we have had nazi occupation, genocide, pearl harbour, revenge executions, a flawed leader (ring any bells), and I think it runs deeper than empires rising and falling. For me it is about wherever there are humans present our flaws doom us to keep making the same mistakes until we learn to obey the spiritual laws of the universe as well as the physical ones. I know this sounds a bit flakey but the real common theme through the series has not been "who is a cylon" but God or Gods or higher power or whatever name you want to use. There is a little poem that reflects the main theme of the show for me. This is probably not quite right but you get the idea.
"I looked for god, but he was hidden from me,
I looked for myself, but could not see,
I looked for my brother and found all three"
I think the story is heading toward some sort of redemption that can only come about through the reconcilliation of man and cylon (chrirstian and muslim etc.).
I have honestly never taken part in a forum before, and I dont know what made me start a few days ago. I saw "Razer" for the first time last night, and began to get an idea. If you are interested, I posted my thoughts on the "Brave enough thread last night - It´s probably a bit flakey also, but I was tired and hungry. Buenas noches.