Who were the eight cylon agents in the fleet? Do they know the five?

[Lestat]

We ,of course, will never know but we speculate on the composition of that group.

I mean when Boomer was captured she was forced by Baltar to reveal that there were 8 cylon agents left in the fleet , that was before the arrival of Gina from Pegasus and after Shelley Godfrey 's escape.

Researches had been made on the known model at that time , Boomer, Shelley , Leoben and Doral , I assume that these model cannot move free withoit being caught , Gina in fact will hide and almost holed , she's not moving.

We know about 2 new models the fleet didn't discovered yet , Brother Cavil and D'Anna Biers , that makes 6 in total so far and also 6 of the significant seven models so 6 are still missing there was no known Simon in the fleet

Assuming that they cannot be all the same model or it'll be discovered easily and since there was one copy of each model (Caprica is in Baltar's mind and Shelley was the only six til Gina arrived and Doral was discovered because he cannot be on board as well as Leoben)

So question is do the Seven know the identity of the Five ? Or at least do they know that the five are actually in the fleet?

so far we have eleven cylons out of 12 and maybe 13 (one per colony the twelves and the lost 13th) being the others 4 known Tory , Anders, Tigh and Tyrol.

[Maj. Apollo]

Its doubtful that the the 7 know the identities of the final 5, sure didnt D'Anna keep killing herself saying she could almost see their faces before resurrecting? as for them being aware of their presence in the fleet i would say myself that they dont know, but im open to correction :)

[Sparrow]

they didnt know who the final five are , wich is very clear having in count what they did to Tight and how D'anna behaved with Anders.... so if they dont know who they are , less they would know how many are in the fleet..

The 8 agent figure is one of those things that would be nice to develop but the writers chosed to forget.. and New Caprica reseted it..
i mean... i doubt there is any doral or leobens left..
Shelly? ok, i think she airlocked herself out of Galactica after she was discovered, but that is not confirmed so Boomer can count her.. thats 1.. D'anna and Cavil.. thats 3.. can we asume a couple of Simons as they are not yet discovered... thats 5 , plus Boomer.. thats 6 ,.. still 2 more to fill.. unless there is one extra copy of D'anna or Cavil arround in the fleet.. or some Leoben/Doral really good hiden..
also its dissapointing how they hide the surprise of revealing D'anna .. i mean.. sure she would be revealed as soon as the Cylons landed it would be cool a D'anna walking and the shook of realicing that she is a Cylon ... but no.. they hide us that part..

[Lestat]

Boomer doesn't count , Baltar's question was: How many cylons are left in the fleet ?

that means other than Boomer otherwise he wouldn't use the word left also she is very well known so it is most unlikely that there's another copy of her , same for D'Anna being on wireless TV is a most known person and the same should be considered for Cavil counselling people something strange would happen when you meet with someone who deeply knows you but is barely able to recognize you or even doesn't recognize you at all.

[aylinn]

I think she meant final 5 although she didn't know who they are but she knew they are hidden somwhere in the fleet. Then we have not yet discovered D'ana (it turned out later that she's a Cylon), Cavil and probably Simon who was seen only by Starbuck on Caprica. That gives us 8 Cylons :).

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

You're all assuming that Boomer wasn't lying in the first place. After all, the information was given under psychological duress...

[Lestat]

good point but if she wanted to lie than she could do it before than the last minute also the number match exactly that of the remaining unknown cylons , it is true though that no cylon has ever revealed anything when forced so that of Boomer would be the only one known ,it is also true that Boomer was in love with Tyrol so being him in danger could've triggered a new priority and override her security program

[genji2000]

You're all assuming that Boomer wasn't lying in the first place. After all, the information was given under psychological duress...

I thought initially she was lying, or rather, saying anything just to answer Baltar's question and save Tyrol. Afterwards, I believed that, given the "psychological duress", she said the first number that came into her head - she's an Eight, so she said "eight".

But what if this was actually a clue... Baltar ordered her to tell him "how many Cylons there are left in the fleet."

There's Boomer herself - that's 1.

As Aylinn said, D'Anna was revealed later - that's 2.

Cavil, also, was revealed later, that's 3.

The Watchtower/Dylan/penultimate Four were revealed much later, that's 7, but her knowledge of them would depend on her having known about them pre-programming, which she didn't, but for the sake of bumping an old thread (maybe she was subconsciously able to sense them, like Caprica Six can)... so, 7.

That leaves one to be discovered by my count. Obviously I would say Boomer thinks she's a Eight (or that she is in an Eight body) but she can also sense that's she one of the Final Five, so there's your 8 Cylons left in the fleet.

However, given that she might not be the final Cylon, or that if she is she's still only one Cylon, who do you think might be the last one of the 8?

[Prolescum]

ha ha.

[snowmelter]

In the episode Resistance, while the Chief and Boomer are in the brig, Baltar comes to see them. He says he can tell if the Chief is a cylon with his detector. Boomer disagrees. Baltar shoots the Chief up with something, turns to Sharon and says that his cylon detector works just fine and admits that he lied to her for his own purposes. In the ensuing drama, Baltar says that deep down, in what passes for her subconcience, Boomer knows how many cylons are in the fleet. She finally admits to 8.

Who are these 8 cylons?

At that point in the series, the Colonials know for sure about Doral and Leoben, so they're out. I'm assuming Boomer is not counting any other model eights, because, clearly, they know about model eight now as well.

That leaves Cavil and D'anna, who we know from later episodes are "outed" to the fleet. I presume there is a Simon as well. And of course, Shelley Godfrey (a six) who, though perhaps a physical manifestation of Baltar's "head" six, she still was there. I think it likely there would be a six anyway. So that accounts for four.

If you count the known final five, only Tyrol, Tigh, Tory, and, presumably the "unknown" fifth are on board. That adds to eight, but how would Boomer know about four of the final five?

Just some mind candy to chew on. This is all predicated upon the idea that the writers had everything planned out in advance and weren't making stuff up as they went along.

Thoughts?

[Wouter]

I assume Boomer just took the first number that came up in her and hoped it would satisfy Baltar. It isn't even clear at all whether or not she is supposed to include herself - strictly speaking, she is a Cylon in the fleet, at that time. Baltar is so happy that it turns out she really loves Tyrol (because he was really thinking about Caprica-6, and her love for himself, wondering if a Cylon can truly love somebody), that he doesn't even considers the possibility she is lying, nor does he ask the obvious follow-up question: who are those 8 (or 7, if Boomer is supposedly including herself).

I don't think the number means anything. Keep in mind that Boomer didn't know any other Cylons; she had only just recently learned (the hard way) that she is a Cylon herself. Not only doesn't she know about the final five, she even has no clue which agents the "normal 7" Cylons have in the fleet. She didn't know Doral was a Cylon, she didn't know Cavil or D'Anna were. She just said something, anything to save Tyrol. And it worked, because that was what really interested Baltar; would she try to save Tyrol or would she not care what happened to him?

[timbo]

I think she is talking about the ones we already know, plus Billy, Dee, Sesha, maybe Gaeta, and one other.

[snowmelter]

wouter, you're probably right. However, they make a point of bringing that scene up later (beginning sequence of Home pt 1) which is what intrigued me. Besides, who's to say what Boomer knows. The 8 on Caprica at this time (who later becomes Athena) knows all about the breeding farms, colonial religion, etc. Perhaps she's "opened herself" to the knowledge locked in her subconscience whereas Boomer has not, but that does not mean Boomer doesn't know it deep down. Not only that, but under extreme duress (like, say, the love of your life having ten seconds to live if you don't give up certain information) she might access such knowledge in order to save Tyrol.

As for the validation of love angle vis-a-vis Baltar and Caprica 6, I agree whole heartedly. I rewatched that scene after reading this and I think you hit the nail right on the head. Nevertheless, it would not be the first time that the writers have thrown a double entendre at us in one scene.

Just sayin'.

[Batman316]

Maybe she said '8' because she is one?

[Wouter]

wouter, you're probably right. However, they make a point of bringing that scene up later (beginning sequence of Home pt 1) which is what intrigued me. Besides, who's to say what Boomer knows. The 8 on Caprica at this time (who later becomes Athena) knows all about the breeding farms, colonial religion, etc. Perhaps she's "opened herself" to the knowledge locked in her subconscience whereas Boomer has not, but that does not mean Boomer doesn't know it deep down. Not only that, but under extreme duress (like, say, the love of your life having ten seconds to live if you don't give up certain information) she might access such knowledge in order to save Tyrol.

It's possible Boomer had such knowledge in her subconscious. However, even then it would require for her to know about the final five (without Tyrol, Tigh and Tory I doubt she could reach 8, especially with Doral and Leoben already "out" of the fleet at that time) and also to have gotten (subconscious) information from other Cylon agents about the active Cylon agents in the fleet. She could hardly know by herself how many Cylons might have made it into the fleet, as there is an element of coincidence in this (the Cylons weren't planning for big groups of survivors).

Athena otoh didn't need to access her subconscious, she was a fully aware Cylon up-to-date on the situation. It was fully conscious knowledge.

[Stairway]

Maybe she said '8' because she is one?

I believe this theory the most. The number eight is deeply embedded in her mind.

Otherwise I'd count Cavil, D'Anna, Gina (yes, I would) Tory, Anders, Tigh, Tyrol and the fifth.

[Wouter]

I believe this theory the most. The number eight is deeply embedded in her mind.

Otherwise I'd count Cavil, D'Anna, Gina (yes, I would) Tory, Anders, Tigh, Tyrol and the fifth.
Not only is Gina not in "the" fleet at the time, neither Boomer nor the colonials even know that Pegasus survived. And that Gina was still on it when it escaped, was probably pure coincidence. Anders is also not in the fleet, he's on Caprica at this time.

Boomer just picked a number at random, perhaps subconsciously her model number as Batman suggested, but she picked something that she hoped would sound believable. There is no significance. Even the writers didn't know yet how many Cylons were in the fleet, at the time...

[snowmelter]

the writers do make an issue of it though. In home pt 1, Baltar even laments to head-6 that he did not have a chance to ask Boomer who the eight were before Cally shot her. I guess the question really hinges on whether the writers had a story arc going with the "mysterious eight" (which, if you watch season 2.0 it seems they do) or if they discarded the idea for something different, or, perhaps, it was all misdirection and loose ends they were trying to tie up.

Thinking more about it...maybe this was a story arc that was to be used in case BSG failed to get a third season.

[Stairway]

Not only is Gina not in "the" fleet at the time, neither Boomer nor the colonials even know that Pegasus survived. And that Gina was still on it when it escaped, was probably pure coincidence. Anders is also not in the fleet, he's on Caprica at this time.

You're right about Anders, my old thought was that she counted herself and that she on a subconscious level knew.

[Mishakal]

My line of thinking on the so-called 8 cylon agents aboard the fleet is that Boomer simply told Baltar the first number that came to mind in order to save the Chief and that number was simply her model number, nothing more.

[Hofner1962]

My personal feeling is that when she said it, the writers expected it to be true. We were early in season 2, and we viewers only knew who 4 of them are (Leoban, Doral, Boomer and 6). We haven't seen any others either in the Caprica storyline or in the fleet. Considering that there isn't an already plotted story line, I could see them easily thinking, " OK, 4 in season 1, 4 in season 2 and 4 in season 3 and we are done - maybe we will save one for a season 4 if we are lucky enough to get that far"

I think the way they used the next cylon reveals supports this theory. 1 of each of the remaining models, or maybe even a couple of one of the models would have worked. Not too hard to hide "twins" among 50,000 people who rarely move between ships. I think the fact that there is no model 7 is also supported by this. When they named them in downloaded they had every intention of filling in all 12. There was no mysterious final 5 envisioned. Then they lost the plot and things lost consistency. Now we rationalize that it was the first number she thought of and other such things but I don't think it true.

I have a long diatribe about how they used and misused the cylons here for any interested. http://battlestarforum.com/showpost.php?p=32206&postcount=8

At this point, if the writers even bother to answer this question, they will come up with a rationalization. I think the real answer though is poor (well, non-existant) planning.

[ThPrime]

I'll bite. Put me on record. "Eight! There are eight." is part of All Will Be Revealed. Several seeds sown in season two will bear fruit in the end.