Who is the Final Cylon poll?

[The Nubs]

Not sure if this has been done before but I haven't seen it so I thought I would throw this up here. Who do you think is the final cylon. Now, I know RDM has stated that some on the list are not the final cylon but he could just be saying that to throw us off the scent. I've tried to include anyone I could think of within the limit of options for a poll.

[frakk`up]

I second this

[Orion]

Wow. I'm with the 100% people. Let's have a party!

[aylinn]

And I voted Dualla :D

[Orion]

And I voted Dualla :D

Yeahhhhh, the usual women stuff.... and those female Cylons always stick together;)

[Lestat]

I dunno but I hope it's Kendra Shaw , I really do.

[aylinn]

Yeahhhhh, the usual women stuff.... and those female Cylons always stick together;)

As Cylon men are not handsome so it can't be Gaeta :P.

[Embo24]

i voted Dualla

[Malcolm]

Let it be Dualla.

[Maj. Apollo]

It would make sense to be Gaeta since he has access to pretty much every thing that goes on in the ship but im hoping it Lampkin, his Irish accent was lethal!!! (compared to some other shite holywood attempts)

[Briggart]

Boxey:p

[The Nubs]

Sorry for to all you Kendra Shaw fans out there. I just forgot to include her on the list. I didn't mean to exclude here.

Boxey would be an interesting choice but wouldn't make much sense since I don't believe he has appeared since the mini series. If he has, it wasn't much.

[TitanimRex]

Head 6 - not on the list but it feels right to me.

[gmuno]

My feeings tell me somehow it's Roslin. Especially her breakdown when reaching the nebula created quite a hunch.

[Malcolm]

Roslin had cancer ...

[gmuno]

So? The other - not so special - Skinjobs got a flu.
It has been said, a lot of times, that the Final Five are a lot different then the other Skinjobs.

[Lestat]

She has indeed but she recovered completely by a simple shot of Hera's blood , an half cylon blood

also given her age she should be one of the very first models , maybe they were flawed models , in fact Col Tigh is an acoholist and he's a cylon for sure

[Orion]

She has indeed but she recovered completely by a simple shot of Hera's blood , an half cylon blood

also given her age she should be one of the very first models , maybe they were flawed models , in fact Col Tigh is an acoholist and he's a cylon for sure

But I never assumed Cylons are supposed to be "perfect". They may all be considered flawed, one way or another. First of all, they're paranoid without end, they're religious psychos, and they may succumb to many things, such as radiation, some diseases... no carbon unit (;)) can be perfect...

[Lestat]

Well everything you said is not an hardware problem they're all problem of either their software or external causes , a cancer is a flaw in their design and such is alcoholism being a chemical need of their artificial organism it is unlikely that someone programmed an addiction into Col Tigh


EDIT I replied to Malcolm who replied to a poster who said Roslin , Malcolm said she had cancer thus implying she cannot be a cylon because of this, I said it might not be a reason of exclusion since there's another cylon model flawed

[Seanathin]

Ah the argument that I have with my GF every night. I say Getta she thinks its Dee.
Clearly its Getta.

[gmuno]

There's one thing to remember: the known Finals are supporting characters, to create some shock for the watchers, it has to be a main character.

[Orion]

There's one thing to remember: the known Finals are supporting characters, to create some shock for the watchers, it has to be a main character.
Maybe. But with that president's adviser... I keep forgetting her name... was I shocked? Nope. I was bored.

[Lestat]

Tory is her name , I wander what will be the development between Tigh and Athena since now he distrust her buy now knowing his personal loyalty to the fleet and his aknowledgement of being a cylon might change a lot of things


Edit

@ Orion a curiosity if I may ,I also have a Raumpatrouille Boxset and I'm wondering if your nick comes from there also since I can't recognize that in your avatar I was just wandering if there's a new series or a remake of that myth

[Orion]

@ Orion a curiosity if I may ,I also have a Raumpatrouille Boxset and I'm wondering if your nick comes from there also since I can't recognize that in your avatar I was just wandering if there's a new series or a remake of that myth


Details are for private posts, but I may reveal publicly that yes, I am also a big fan of "Raumpatrouille" (en: "Space patrol"; for those of you out there: This was the first space mini series ever, it aired even before star trek. Produced in Germany and very funny in parts. E.g., their speed accelerator on the bridge was made from a flat iron:lol:...)
The space craft's name was Orion.
No, there's no remake, continuation or reimagination of that show. German TV is too lazy for that, unfortunately.
Apart from that, the constellation Orion is my favourite on the night sky.

The avatar is not an actor from any TV show.:D

[Zod]

kneel before Gaeta....

[Maj. Apollo]

Gaeta is a total dude!!! he oozes cool!!! it has to be him!

[ShadowEnigma]

Oh comon it can't be Gaeta. That would be a total anti-climatic crap fest.

[Lestat]

Actually there are two cylons missing , we know 6 of the Significant Seven and four of the Final Five that means we know only ten out of twelve.

Also one of the lately discovered four might actually be the seventh or one of the seven might actually be a five , I'm thinking about Leoben his role appears a little different from that of the others and he's almost never seen along with them, I can remember only in Ragnar in the miniseries.

Again twelve colonies , twelve cylon models , five priests , five hidden cylons , but the colonies are actually thirteen , so there might be another cylon model with a total of 13


This assuming that the hybrids are not in the count of human models and especially of the Significant Seven being them unreliable but for navigational purposes

[ShadowEnigma]

Don't we know 11?
1. Number 3 (D'Anna Biers)
2. Number 5 (Aaron Doral)
3. Number Six
4. Number Eight (Athena/Boomer)
5. Leobon Conoy
6. Simon
7. Cavil

Then we have the four people who are cylons from the season closer - Tyrol, Anders, Tigh, and Foster.

[Lestat]

You'te right I forgot the doctor

[Musereader]

I definatly think it is very obvious that it's Kendra Shaw, I'm a newbie here so if there is a thread that discusses Kendra being the last cylon coud someone direct me to it?

Thanks in advance

[Lestat]

there isn't also we (me and you) are the only two to think that , and mine is more a hope than an actual guess

[Musereader]

Ok, wierd. I've just joined this forum, I've watched the series from the begining but I used to watch it with my ex-boyfriend, (who left me for another girl last May). Then I watched razor 3 days ago and since then I've been bursting with the idea that the last one is Kendra, and I'm going stir crazy because I DON'T HAVE ANYBODY TO TALK TO ABOUT IT, because the only person I knew who watched it is that ex-boyfriend who I now hate. Any way I need somebody to pick holes in this because I'm sure I can't be right, but it seem to be the only one that fits.

It's based around the quote from the hybrid

"Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves, the pain of that revelation, bringing true clarity...." The Four we've seen

"...And amidst confusion, you will find her..." Starbuck

"...Enemies brought together by the apostle, enemies now joined as one. The way forward, once impenetrable, yet inevitable...." Because Starbuck knows the way now and she's gonna convince the cylons call truce.

"...And the fifth, though still in the shadow yet clawing for the light, hungry for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering..." It's got to be someone looking for redemption, what was the whole theme of Razor? Kendra Felt bad about that massacre - drugs etc, she sacrificed herself because of that. That hybrid actually ASKED her if she wanted redemption for god's sakes AND he called her "My Child" What other character besides Baltar is looking for any kind of redemption for what they have done? Terrible suffering, what do you call being blown up?

"...I can see them all, the seven, now six self-described machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them..." Something is going to convince the cylons that thier hunting of the humans is a sin

"...They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching, the agony of the one splintering into many..." The cylons copies are going to all become individuals and disconnect from that network

"...And then they will join in the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning..." Promised land = earth, obvious yes.

It's just the scene between Kendra and the Hybrid, He was waiting for HER he knew who she was, she wanted redemption he called her his child. Watch that scene a couple of time and you will see what I mean.

[Musereader]

And thats not even the half of it, thats just the main story basis for why I think that. Why would the writers set this up - this character with all her backstory and then kill her? There must be something linking Razor to the rest of the story of the series, otherwise it adds nothing to the canon, you could watch the series without it and you would lose nothing. And there has to be a consequence, some effect of this story down the line, otherwise why tell it? What would it be for. You can't tell me with all the thought that went into the entire series that they just threw this together because they were asked to.

I've just read that and it sounds fanatical and rambly, I'm not doing such a good job of explaining the feeling that I have from watching razor that its Kendra.

But the main thing is that the prophecy cannot be ignored when you are discussing the last cylon, any character must fit the criteria in that line "...And the fifth, though still in the shadow yet clawing for the light, hungry for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering..." It has to be relevant, they wouldn't have put it in if it wasn't.

[Musereader]

I can't belive it, I was reading anthoer thread and it mentioned the lords of kobol - 12 Lords of Kobol, 1 of them Athena kills herself, leaving 11, Kendra killed herself, need I say more??

[Lestat]

Starbuck killed herself too

[The Nubs]

I agree that a lot of signs point to Kendra Shaw and she is a great character. But from a show perspective it just doesn't make sense to introduce a character in a two hour movie outside of the normal flow of the show, kill her off in that same movie and then later throw her back into the storyline as the final cylon. Also, a lot of religions/societies have priests/people of power refer to people as their children. For centries kings and queens refered to their people as children. I'm not saying that it can't be Kendra Shaw, but it to me just doesn't make sense. It's going to see someone who we have seen probably since early on in the series. My opinion on Kendra Shaw also is similar to my opinion about Lampkin.

[Lestat]

There's logic in Musereader's thoughts but many of them may apply to more than one carachter , for example other than Kendra and Baltar also Adama feels guilty , he thinks he started the war plus left behind half fleet , plus after the rescue of Anders he said about how many other survived to be rescued but he didn't.
Not to mention Admiral Cain

[Musereader]

ut from a show perspective it just doesn't make sense to introduce a character in a two hour movie outside of the normal flow of the show, kill her off in that same movie and then later throw her back into the storyline as the final cylon.

But it doesn't make any sense for her to be introduced (with a full backstory) and not make anything of it either, there can't be no reason for it.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Kendra Shaw is "us", more or less. She is the conduit through which "Razor" is told, thus making it easier for people to "get" the story, rather than just throwing people into the universe and hoping they'd swim.

In other words, she's a human-form MacGuffin (http://www.screenonline.org.uk/tours/hitch/tour6.html).

[Orion]

The one "seeking redemption" could basically be anybody.

Think of the war crimes committed by all main characters during the first three seasons (Apollo quoted many of those in Baltar's trial). All forgiven - officially, but not likewise ethically correct.

So, from a writer's perspective, any person who committed one of those acts might be turned into somebody seeking redemption. Movie scripts ARE that flexible and the writers are... :devil: well you know, they keep all possible loopholes open.

Also, the Hybrid's talking bullshit. Finding oneself hearing strange music in one's head and meeting in a damp hallway doesn't really feel like a glorious awakening:lol:

[LSOP]

It seems that Kendra is at least enough of a contender that she should be included in the poll, and those who would have voted for her had she been there could contact the moderator and have their votes switched.

[Sparrow]

I would like a lot Kendra being the last one..

but i think that the writers are not that smart....

[Lestat]

Kendra made an impression as a carachter and as an actress , writers aren't blind.
but... what about Helena Cain?

Males : Cavil, Simon, Leoben, Doral , Tigh , Anders , Tyrol
Females: D'Anna , Sharon, Six , Tory

given this proportion my guess is that the final one is a female cylon

[The Nubs]

Males : Cavil, Simon, Leoben, Doral , Tigh , Anders , Tyrol
Females: D'Anna , Sharon, Six , Tory

given this proportion my guess is that the final one is a female cylon

That is a great point. It would be strange to have the final cylon a male and have a 4:1 ratio. With all these points I may have to change my vote away from Gaeta. I still don't think it is Shaw because that would just not make sense to me based on her just being intrduced in Razor. I don't know who I think it is now.

[Ukia25]

The producers wanted a stand alone, and thats what Razor was. So Kendra Shaw could just be a cool character that was made for Razor. I dont think they intended her to be the Fifth, but its common with TV shows for a character that was ment to have a small role getting a bigger one because of fan approval. I dont know if you watch The Wire, but Omar is an example of this. So eventhough Shaw wasnt intended for the Fifth, I think there is a chance it could be her.

[caprica_six]

I voted Tom Zarek! I think he would be a very intereting coice seeing as they have developed his character in a way that we know enough about him, his motives about politics, and also being a Sagittarian. He seems like a good choice :)

[Lestat]

Could be especially because maybe Richard Hatch wants a less marginal role

[DodgyDave85]

ellen tigh, just cos baltar covers up her results.... well supposedly

[Osprey]

Having the 5th be female gets as close to possible as the same gender balance of the 7 [4/3, 3/2] {fwiw}
Having the 5th be a "right-hand" character fits as well -- tigh to bill, tory to laura, anders to kara, galen to , um, cally?, ok that analogy breaks down a bit here, but dee to lee would still fit
Hence i vote for dee.

If the 5th must be male [highly doubtful imo] then follwing the "right-hand person" rule one could lean toward gaeta & lampkin, or maybe zarek, and if i could choose solely for dramatic purposes i would chose zarek ...

[Shane]

I upped the date to April 3rd. After that all bets are off. :D

[The Nubs]

ellen tigh, just cos baltar covers up her results.... well supposedly


I can't remember if they actually finished testing the entire fleet for being cylons? If they did test the fleet then obviously Tigh and Chief would have been test just to weed out any that might be in the military. I'm surprised that they didn't do any tests on any of the people like Anders they rescued from Caprica. My guess it that somehow they don't show up in the test. Although, if it is Ellen then she would fit the clue about needing redemption. She is also female but I don't think it would make sense to have the "right hand" of the commander to have "right hand". Plus if they go this route I think I would be a little let down.

[Lestat]

they didn't besides Baltar cheated the test or at least all commanding officers were tested and discovered

[buerger23]

why weren't tigh dicovered as a cylon

[Lestat]

i just said why, Baltar cheated the test because he was afraid that a newly discovered cylon would kill him

[Zod]

i definitely think that there is something in the 'final cylon is a woman' theory.

I did vote Gaeta originally, but now I am going to stick my neck out and call out Laura Roslin as the final cylon. I know, I know, she has cancer, but if she one of the final five, and the final 5 cylons are from a previous cycle of time, why not?? Wouldnt the final 5 have inherited human genetic characteristics through mixing over time??? This would also explain why Baltar's cylon detector probably wouldnt work in trying to detect any of the final 5. It would only be calibrated to pick up new generation cylons (significant 7). The Final 5 cylons DNA would be 'diluted' through human mixing to such a degree that no obvious differences would be evident or discovered in any test.

Also, wasnt Laura President Adar's lover?? this neatly ties up with the 'next in rank or an aid to someone in an important position' theory, Tighe to Adama, Tory to the President, etc. Is there any rule where they have to be currently next in rank or an aid???

And in regards to the 'seeking redemption' statement made by the 1st hybrid, surely Roslin has made a great many mistakes in her time as president. fixing an election for starters??

Also, it really has to be somebody BIG doesnt it???

[Lestat]

I agree with Roslin as a major candidate and in fact is my candidate although i'd like to see Kendra Shaw again but a couple of things make me doubt , she was close to President Adar and this fits but then why Tory if the President herself is a cylon?
also in the miniseries there's a scene before the attack and just before Roslin arrives aboard Galactica in which Number Six talks to the camera as she was talking to somebody and aknowledge that the beginning of the attack was very close , who was him/she?

[The Nubs]

Ialso in the miniseries there's a scene before the attack and just before Roslin arrives aboard Galactica in which Number Six talks to the camera as she was talking to somebody and aknowledge that the beginning of the attack was very close , who was him/she?

I just saw this scene the other day and was wandering that. But it wouldn't make any sense to have it be Roslin because then she would know who one of the final 5 is and that she kept it a secret the whole time from everyone. My opinion on that scene is that it was just a different model who may not have been cast yet. If I remember correctly we don't see Cavil or the Dr. model until season 1 or just to make everyone wonder who she was talking to.

I do agree that it is probably a women and that having it be Roslin make sense in some respect but then that throws out Tory as being of any real importance. My problem with guess who is the final model is that there are so many good opinions on the board, so many ideas in my head and so many choices that everyday I think it might be someone new.

[iheartthesystem]

My problem with guess who is the final model is that there are so many good opinions on the board, so many ideas in my head and so many choices that everyday I think it might be someone new.That's exactly my problem. I think my list of people whom I suspect to be a cylon is much longer than my list of people of whom I'm pretty sure they are not a cylon.

Well, out of a hunch I just voted for Zarek, although the person highest on my suspect list is probably Gaeta. Then again, Gaeta being revealed as a cylon might be pretty anti-climatic because he is so high on many people's susoect list.

Going with the idea that every main character has his personal Final Fiver (and in that case I think that Tyrol is linked to Galactica- technically not a real character but still) then Lee still needs his. But in that case I'd rather say it's Kara or Romo Lampkin or maybe Zarek if Lee really leaves the military.

I know it's completely unrealistic but I'd like it if the final cylon were Helena Cain, if only I'd like to see her again.

[Lestat]

Actually Helena Cain could be a candidate , you know in Razor there's a flashback scene (Extended available only on DVD) in which a cylon assault her house when she was a baby maybe kills her little sister but spares her , it was ready to shoot but did'n't it was explained or at least she thought it was because the war was over but couldn't it be because it recognized her as a cylon?

[iheartthesystem]

Aw, I didn't explain myself well (or at all) why I thought that's it highly unlikely that Cain is a cylon: For me it's mostly because I doubt that they'll bring Michelle Forbes back. Having not seen the extended Razor version yet I can't really comment on it. But from your explanation of it it might point to her as being a cylon and it actually raises her higher on my possible cylon list. Still, she'll remain also on my "people who I want to be a cylon but who very likely won't be one" list.

[Neakal]

I chose Lee. I know the issues of having Lee as a Cylon while he has a father and I kinda agree the 2 female final five argument because of the pictures Number Three had in Torn. However, I always felt in my gut that Lee is the Cylon. First there is the practical issue: Lee is one of the few people whose revelation will have enough of a "Holy Frak!" response, particularly in light of Tigh.

Second is Leoben's "Adama is a Cylon". Of course Leoben was trying to mindfrak Roslin but it was always said that Leoben's don't lie. They mix lies with half-truths. Maybe Leoben did not even realise half the thing he said was true.

However, the only bit of "proof", if you can even call it that, is as follows.

During the episode "Downloaded", Head-Baltar recites a poem to Six (Life is Short / But the next one's not / Let your heart adrift / And your soul will get caught). In the episode's podcast, RDM was saying that he had initially written the poem for the episode Ressurection Ship Part II, specifically when Lee was floating in space and "hallcinating" (I saw some people claim this was a projection). The cast would appear at the shore of the lake he was swimming in and recite the poem.

That got me thinking. Why would a character that is considered almost definitely human have a dream/vision that clearly references to downloading. Particularly considering he was responsible for destroying the very ship that ensured Cylons download and that he was about to die. Does that mean the Final Five had a larger download range and that he is still "within the safety net" (Do the Final Five even ressurect?)

Now I realise this happened in Season 2, much before the Final Five were conceptualised. But RDM said he has been playing with the idea of the Final Cylon since Season 1. Did he during the podcast, by mistake, slip that Lee was one of the people he considered?

Any ideas? Counterpoints? I know its not a sloid idea but it had a grip on me.

Oh and the transcript of the Podcast is here: http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Podcast:Downloaded The part about the poem is midway through the "Act 4"

[Osprey]

"Did he during the podcast, by mistake, slip that Lee was one of the people he considered?"

considered -- surely, as rdm prolly considered just about every cast member at one time or another.

for it to be lee, you have to take the whole "tigh's 50 years of life in the colonial fleet is a farce" tact and go even further since lee is 1] younger and 2] has 1/2 his parentage still around to attest to baby lee, young lee, cadet lee, etc. etc.

[Lestat]

Lee would be very hard to justify and explain how he can have had a mother , a brother an almost sister in law , a father and a very famous grandfather, that can't be possible all of them knew him over the years some of them since he was born if all these people and recalls were faked than they are all cylons including Romo who knew Lee's grandfather

[The Nubs]

I still am considering Lee a possible option for the final model. If I remember correctly, wasn't there a scene where his mom would not let Bill in during the birth of both Lee and Zak? Although, it would be strange to have Starbuck who is obviously some sort of messenger be fracking 2 of the final 5.

[iheartthesystem]

I still am considering Lee a possible option for the final model. If I remember correctly, wasn't there a scene where his mom would not let Bill in during the birth of both Lee and Zak? Although, it would be strange to have Starbuck who is obviously some sort of messenger be fracking 2 of the final 5.I think that scene was more along the lines that Bill seemed to be present for Zak's birth but not for Lee's (or that Zak was born on a battlestar and Lee wasn't). But still, it seemed a tiny bit suspicious that Lee wasn't mentioned in that scene. It might be a minor detail but it's one of the reasons why I don't rule out Lee completely as being the fifth cylon. Plus Lee would be one of the few characters, the others being Bill and Laura Roslin, that bring the somewhat necessary WTF!?! effect to the reveal of the final cylon because it's really hard now to top the revelation of Tigh being a cylon. Still, Lee and Bill are the two people I think are most likely not to turn out cylon.

[The Nubs]

I think we can rule out Roslin being the final cyclon because of the shared dream with six and sharon. So that leaves Bill and Lee as being the biggest WTF for the final cyclon. Although some discount it Leoben did say that Adama was a cylon, he just didn't say which one.

However, I still do think that it won't be a WTF character as much as it will be a right hand type person. Someone staying slightly behind the scene but still it it enough to an important part.

[Lestat]

I believe the cylons are 13 just as many as the tribes and I think the two missing are Baltar and Roslin I say so because were all in the same dream with Six , Hera and Athena also Roslin was able to connect her dreams with Leoben , how can humans be so connected with machines?

[iheartthesystem]

Although I think that quite a few points can be made against Roslin being the final cylon (for example her having cancer which seems to rule her out IMO and her not being "activated" by the music- though her feeling nauseous when the Galactica came to the nebula could certainly be construed as some kind of reaction) I'm still not ready to discard the possibility entirely. For example, the shared dream with Six and Sharon does rather point into the cylon direction for me. Then again, Roslin could have been somehow affected by Hera's blood, causing the dream.

Regarding the WTF?!? effect: I personally also think it'll rather be some kind of right-hand character. But I also think it might be possible that the writers are going for that effect and quite a few fans are certainly expecting said effect. Because of that and because of Leoben's "Adama is a cylon" statement (which might not be very reliable though, given the source), I still have Lee and Bill on my cylon list.

[Lestat]

I tell you what the WTF could be , Baltar is Zeus or even Jesus to which right now he have a great resemblance
Roslin having a cancer is not a clue she's not a cylon , apparently the final five are flawed in some way , Tigh is addicted to alcohol , Anders got pneumonia back on New Caprica

[ShadowEnigma]

What about other 2? What are their flaws?

Personally I highly doubt either of the Adamas or Roslin will be a Cylon.

[Lestat]

I didn't they all have flaws I said they might have , two of them certainly have maybe the others might have the same as Anders or of Tigh but being younger might not yet developed any addiction which also possibly be an additional flaw of Roslin if she's addicted with chamalla extract

[timbo]

In the poll there is no possibility to vote for "none of the above", which is what I want to do, because when we finally find out, the whole thing will have taken an earth-shattering lurch in another even more amazing direction, and it may not be so important. Please read the "Brave enough" thread. If it is possible, could you add "none of the above" to the poll options. I think he has us all gazing into outer space when the answers are right here.
Kara - "You´re going the wrong way"

[james968]

Although, it would be strange to have Starbuck who is obviously some sort of messenger be fracking 2 of the final 5.

Why not? Baltar got away with 2 of the Significant Seven.

(I was wondering about when Boomer found out he could get Hera to stop crying. "Is he going to have some sort of tryst with her? How come he never seemed to interact with the male cylons, except for a rumored conversation about toilet paper...).

Also if Starbuck is a cylon, that means he got pretty close to getting 3 of them. (And he'll have pieces from both sets).

[james968]

Watching some of the old episodes I have to at least entertain Cmdr Adama as a possibility.

There are so many times where something happens and the other characters are 'lets shoot/nuke/runaway/kill/relax/party/etc' and Adama responds no this is/isn't a Cylon attack. Maybe its just lack of creativity, or maybe Adama has somehow found a script for the show that has slipped into that universe, but he seems to have lots of hunches which turn out to be right.

The biggest non-sequitur behavior would be his loyalty to Saul Tigh. If he knows Tigh is the super-deep cover cylon (i.e. the one who's human persona hates cylons and hence his cylon persona) and feels obligated to support him.

I think/hope that the way that the FF are different types of cylons will be revealed by the time we find the final Cylon and by that point the pieces will fit together. (My personal opinion is that the FF do not reserect, but reincarnate and hence their survival is dependent on the survival of the Human race (to have somewere to reincarnate to)).

[timbo]

Reincarnate instead of resurrect, I like it. "All this has happened before... etc" could mean they might have been also reincarnating as prominent figures in human history on earth. Nice idea 968, I am recommending you for a promotion.

[timbo]

I am going back to my original conviction that we are all barking up the wrong tree. However, something to consider when thinking about the identity of the last cylon (I actually dont think Tigh and co are cylons) would be the "nature or essence " of each of them.
We have: Tigh - the soldier
Tory - the politician
Tyrol - the engineer
Anders - the athlete
What is missing from this list? I think probably - the artist
Which may mean Kara, as she painted the strange images that came into her mind.
Another idea that is crystalising in my mind is this: I think that in organised religion, all the ceremonial stuff - rosarys, facing mecca, pointed hats, wafers, sitting cross-legged etc. have, because they are easier, taken the place of the real spiritual journey - "the road less travelled", and all the hysteria over who is a cylon is an echo of this.

This is my insightful back-up post for when my main ideas turn out to be B.S.

[The Nubs]

We have: Tigh - the soldier
Tory - the politician
Tyrol - the engineer
Anders - the athlete
What is missing from this list? I think probably - the artist
B.S.

I think there is some sense to what you are saying here. But what about the educator? The scientist? The priest? the doctor? The animal lover? the lawyer? There are to many other types of people out there for this to be the basis for how these people were selected.

I do however think that they are cylons.

[timbo]

Yes, you are right. Like most of my theories, it is full of holes. I am sending myself to bed now without any dinner.

[james968]

I am going back to my original conviction that we are all barking up the wrong tree. However, something to consider when thinking about the identity of the last cylon (I actually dont think Tigh and co are cylons) would be the "nature or essence " of each of them.
We have: Tigh - the soldier
Tory - the politician
Tyrol - the engineer
Anders - the athlete
What is missing from this list? I think probably - the artist


What about the Geek?
The pacifist/wimp?

[Shane]

Going to make this interesting, for those who participated thanks :) heh. For those who pick the right person, those who voted for the correct character will get 1 month free of no ads here on the forum only. So get your votes in now! :) Those who have already voted... sorry!

This poll still ends April 3rd.

[Gizzy-Mo]

What about the Geek?
The pacifist/wimp?

I think they covered that with Lee :lol:

-------------------------------------

[timbo]

Dear poll organiser, would it be possible to add "someone not yet seen" or "none of the above" to the poll, as I think everyone is barking up the wrong tree.

[timbo]

I think there is some sense to what you are saying here. But what about the educator? The scientist? The priest? the doctor? The animal lover? the lawyer? There are to many other types of people out there for this to be the basis for how these people were selected.

I do however think that they are cylons.

Maybe the others count? Bit flimsy this, but the black cylon was a doctor, the little gay one looks like a teacher, Leoben is a priest wannabe and Six can be whatever she wants, as far as I am concerned.

[ShadowEnigma]

the little gay one looks like a teacher


?

[timbo]

I am referring to the one who was The PR guy, and then later a suicide bomber- dont know what number he is. Well, I did say it was a flimsy theory. Even flimsier than usual.

[Shane]

Added. :)

[timbo]

You are a gentleman, sir.

[redwards95]

Fascinating thread. I am surprised at how many people think some of these characters are the final cyclon. It never occurred to me that Zarek or Dee could be the one. My most likely candidates are:

Starbuck
Roslin
Baltar
Admiral Adama

I eliminate any character for whom if it that character was the final cylon my response would be, "Eh? Ok whatever." That disqualifies Cottle, Billy, Ellen Tigh, and Lampkin for me. It would seem to have to be one of the very most important characters or else the revelation of the 5th's identity will be quite a let down.

I do like the theory that the 5 have a mix of professions (politician, engineer, military officer, athlete). That would make Baltar a strong candidate as he is a scientist plus there's the fact that he is the "chosen" and he sees head six. But I get the impression that RDM has made it clear that Baltar is definitely human. This could be obfuscation of course, but it hurts Gaius' chances none the less.

Admiral Adama seems highly unlikely due to having children and a father who was known by other characters. Plus if he is the 5th that would give the cylons the top 2 officers on Galactica which seems excessive. The "wow" factor if it is Adama would be huge though. I don't know if RDM could pull off a convincing explanation for such a plot turn though, so I doubt this is the case.

Starbuck is too obvious a choice due to her death in season 3, so by process of elimination I guess I'll take Roslin. Yes there is the cancer problem, but we know that the final 5 are not like the other 7 so that is not a fatal flaw.

The only other character I could see it being is Gaeta, but I don't think he's a strong enough character to be the 5th cyclon. He would fail the "so what" test for me.

(Note: I haven't seen RAZOR yet so I can't assess Kendra as an option but it seems highly unlikely to me that a character that hasn't even been in the series regular episodes would turn out to be the 5th cylon.)

[ShadowEnigma]

Can we really limit the final Cylon to the limits of the S7? I mean, I don't know for sure one way or the other, but the F5 seem (at least to me) to be not fully one way or the other. They are a mixture, a combination of the two sides, and also religiously significant.

I do agree with the idea that it will probably be someone different (when discussing the spread of occupations). They probably have a reason for picking those specific occupations, and hopefully will become more clear in Season 4.

[timbo]

Yes, religiously significant. I agree.

Redward - Ok, it would be a let down NOW, but we have a whole season left. If the show continues its trajectory and takes us to even greater heights, maybe THEN, it wouldnt be a let down, in the context of where it all goes in season 4.

Shadow Enigma. 2 questions.
Q1 - how do I get to be a deckhand?
Q2 - Do I have to salute you now?

[ShadowEnigma]

A1 - You have to have no life like myself and be on here wayyy too much, haha. Deckhand just means I've become a moderator. I have to watch over you silly people to make sure you play nice on the forums.

A2 - Nah.

[timbo]

I know what you mean, but its weird, I actually do have a pretty cool life. Wife, kids, job i love, spanish sunshine. But I am somehow taking from sleep time, eating time and wife time to make forum time. Weird.

[ShadowEnigma]

It's a break from life. Everyone needs it occasionally. I have a lot going on in my life, with everything I'm trying to accomplish in these four years of college. It's nice to come to a forum and chat with people about BSG.

[timbo]

Sorry about the thread jumping, act without thinking, story of my life.
It wont happen again sir.

[The Nubs]

Dear poll organiser, would it be possible to add "someone not yet seen" or "none of the above" to the poll, as I think everyone is barking up the wrong tree.

I would add it if I could. I think I maxed out the number of choices.

[timbo]

It´s ok, Nubs, I think one of the moderators did it already, and have duly voted for this choice - incredibly and mysteriously, so has someone else!!!

[timbo]

I have already mentioned this idea on another thread but it was a bit off theme. This is probably a better thread to air it as it affects the final five fevered frenzy. The idea is this: the cylons did something to those four on new caprica which they could later activate to make them think they were cylons, simply as a psy-ops divide and conquer, confusion and mistrust creating strategy. Lots of people have said if I come up with a viable possibility, they would consider the possibility that Tigh and co arent FF. Well consider away dudes, because this IS viable. One more day to go. If I turn out to be 100% wrong, I will post a photo of my bum with CYL o N written accross it.

I forgot to say, if it is true, then all the fifth cylon stuff will be thrown into chaos and anarchy.
Which is just what the cylons wanted. Ok, time for a lie down I think.

[Shane]

After looking at the last supper photo, and reading Season 1 through Season 3 guides, I am still totally convinced it's Cottle. I can't wait till we find out who it is. I been confused for days with the recent activity on the Last Supper Photo. I think I stared at the photo for at least an hour or more.

@ The Nubs: I made it so we can have unlimited options. :D

[james968]

I think it is Socrata Thrace, who has been reincarnated as Casey. She died about 2 or 3 years before the Holocaust, and about 2 years after that we meat a ~4 yo Casey

[ShadowEnigma]

But Kacey isn't actually Kara's daughter. She was kidnapped from her mother and Leoben just tried to use her to get Kara to warm up to him. Though it would be shocking, I don't think it would be as good as having one of the main characters. I mean we only saw/heard about her in what? Two episodes? If it does end up being her, that would make Kara a hybrid, that could be interesting, but I don't see that panning out like that. An interesting idea for a twist though.

That last supper photo has been getting crazy amoutn of attention. I really wonder if it's supposed to mean something or if they just did it to drive us fans nuts.

[Shane]

Billy has gotten no votes. If Billy is the final cylon... I would be stunned. :)

[timbo]

Why are you still all scrambling around on your knees looking for the answer? Look toward the heavens - the last one will be some incarnation or representative of God.

[The Nubs]

It´s ok, Nubs, I think one of the moderators did it already, and have duly voted for this choice - incredibly and mysteriously, so has someone else!!!

You have two accounts don't you? :lol:

[Shane]

I took billy off since no one voted for him. Anyways.. the poll is closed. Now we get to wait and see! :)

[timbo]

Nubs - No, only one. There really is another among us who shares my view. I would love to know who it is. Honestly.

Poor Billy, it all went pear shaped for him didn´t it. But I suspect he still has his part to play. He is naive and innocent, but has integrity. He is one of the purest characters. So is Dee. Their moment in the com centre at the very beginning was what made Adama realise the important thing now was not to get back into the fight, but to make babies. That was the moment when the possibilities of the future overcame the desire for revenge. Dee once said that she loved Lee, but accepted that she would probably have to settle for the part of him that didn´t belong to Kara. The scraps from Kara´s table. Billy represents hope for the future, free from the mistakes of the past, and I hope he gets Dee in the end.

I still think this show deserves a bit more than this "pin the tail on the cylon" circus.

Sorry, dudes, a bit melancholy tonight. Big day tommorrow.

[james968]

I still think this show deserves a bit more than this "pin the tail on the cylon" circus.

Sorry, dudes, a bit melancholy tonight. Big day tommorrow.

When I saw the (supposed) new opening text, I was a bit worried the last season turning into a "pin the tail on the cylon circus", but I couldn't think of such a good description.

[timbo]

I am giddy with excitement. And maybe this is the right thread for this now. I am sorry I am repeating myself but I just need to post it once more.

From the start, I didn´t think Tigh and co were the final four, but I couldn´t explain why. NOW, I think on New Caprica, the cylons put a chip or something in their heads to make them draw the conclusion that they were cylons. The objective would be to cause more mistrust, division, hesitation and confusion. If I am right, they have achieved it perfectly. I haven´t seen it yet but Anders´glowing red eye would be a marker to show who has chips planted in them, as obviously these people serve the cylons better alive. Apparently, President Roslin thinks Starbuck´s return is a cylon trick. Nooooo!! The cylon trick is the "watchtower four", Starbuck is the real deal. Oh, those cunning tricksy cylons.

Please, will someone at least comment on what they think about this idea.

James - thank you for the compliment.

[The Nubs]

Nubs - No, only one. There really is another among us who shares my view. I would love to know who it is. Honestly.



I know Timbo, I was just giving you a hard time. Although, i don't agree with your theory, it's glad to see a board where people have passion and aren't slamming each other and being idiots about things.

[Shane]

You can click on the number and it shows who voted for which option. Since it's a public poll. :)

[redwards95]

After thinking about it more, I've changed my mind. It's not Roslin. I think it is either Lee Adama or Lee's mother. But more likely Lee since having the final cylon be a dead character would be lame. How can it be Lee? Swapped at birth I guess. We know cylons show signs of aging since we've seen flashbacks of a younger looking Saul Tigh. I also think there is a very good chance there are actually 13 cylons since there are 13 colonies. I would guess the 12th will be revealed as somebody like Gaeta or Cottle early in season 4 while the 13th (Lee) will be revealed in one of the final episodes perhaps when the fleet arrives at Earth.

[timbo]

After all the hysteria about the final four/five, I cant believe that noone has at least commented on what I have been saying about Tigh and the other three. If my idea is right (see three posts back in this thread) then there are four more candidates for the final cylon. Now, either you are dismissing it as another crackpot idea, or some of you think it may be right but are reluctant to comment after previously dismissing as a crackpot idea. I would hope that any fan of this show, is also a fan of the truth, and would be big enough to at least consider responding.

Personally, I still dont really care, or think it is important who the final cylons are, and I suspect that the creators of the show would be pretty disappointed if it was remembered just as a really good mystery. It is bigger than that, and its fans should try to be too.

A bit preachy tonight sorry. I was told off earlier for posting in the wrong place. Now I am sulking.

[ShadowEnigma]

redwards95, I don't think there will be a 13th cylon. Though shocking, that wouldn't be a way they would go, I think anyways.

Also, I've mentioned this in other threads, but what if Tigh isn't human or Cylon, but a mixture of the two. I don't think the final five have the same traits as any of the S7.

Timbo, you have an interesting idea, though I dunno if they would do that. So Timbo, do you think Starbuck showing up at the exact same time the Cylons do a coincidence?

[timbo]

Señor Enigma, I sensed you were a gentleman from our first few encounters. Thank you for at least acknowledging that it is an interesting idea. And no I dont think it was a coincidence. I think she has perhaps had a kind of Gandalf the grey / Starbuck the rebel to Gandalf the white / Starbuck the angel transformation.

What is going on with you yanks. I think I am posting some pretty cool ideas here, and the only one who wants to play with me is Señor Enigma.

[Leroy Morte]

I've been kinda thinking along the lines of a post a few up from here about a 13th cylon, for the same reason. As for the four not being cylons, unless RDM out right lied, they are 4 of the final 5. No way around it, he has several times definitely said they are. It'd be pretty frakked up if he lied. I mean, I understand playing it close to vest, releasing "misleading info", and such, I'd do the same in his position, but to outright lie? But I do think the final 5 are fundamentally different in some way, possibly even partially human, and maybe they don't look identical in every incarnation. I don't think anyone has suggested this before, but what if they aren't exact duplicates like all of the S7 are? Anyone got any thoughts?

[ShadowEnigma]

No no, i'm not disagreeing about them being the final 5. I fully acknowledge and agree they are the final five. But I think the final five are more then just Cylons.

[timbo]

I Give Up.

[Shane]

No no, i'm not disagreeing about them being the final 5. I fully acknowledge and agree they are the final five. But I think the final five are more then just Cylons.
Like a newer newer humaniod cylon?

[timbo]

I´ve changed my mind. I dont give up. I hardly ever do. And maybe I have an ally now. Mr Cosmomonopoly, are you with me? You guys cant keep leapfrogging me forever.

[ShadowEnigma]

Like a newer newer humaniod cylon?

I wouldn't say exactly newer. Just different from the S7. Because they are Part human, part Cylon, and definitely have something religious to them. They embody all aspects. I don't have a concrete way of explaining them, once I get words for it I'll try to explain it better.

[timbo]

C´mon, Señor Enigma, Don´t play their game. You only have one soul, dont sell it cheap.

[Coopsomulous]

I think the final cylon is Helo.

Firstly, his child Hera is special. Nicolas Tyrol, also being a human-cylon child, however is not. Is Hera special because she is the offspring of two cylons?

We know that the final 5 cylons are fundamentally different. Being able to reproduce with another cylon would make them fundamentally different from the others. The 7 have stated that they cannot reproduce with each other, but they wouldnt know if they could reproduce with the 5; as they dont know who they are and therefore can't experiment with them.

Helo is basically a moral compass, he has a strong sense of right and wrong. This trait hasn't been seen in the other models, and if they are basically one of our "12" personality types, this personality would need to be included.

As for the hybrids speach about the last cylon needing redemption before he/she could realise what they are, Helo has many things that require redemption. He gave up his seat for the traitor Baltar, he killed his wife - just cos she's a cylons and was going to rise again doesn't mean he didn't feel bad -, stopped a chance of eliminating a mortal enemy for good...just to name a few

And finally, cos revealing Helo as the last cylon would be a HUGE shock to the viewers and would have the forums working overtime. This, from what I know about Ron D Moore and his DS9 antics, would be what he wants. To reveal something that no one saw coming, and I think that this would be it.

Sorry if this seems rushed, but my first draft was lost somewhere betweent me pressing the post button and it appearing in the thread. Kat is my back up option, but I can't see her being a big enough reveal and not enough evidence pointing to her.

Is this out there enough timbo?

[timbo]

Halleleulah !!! Am I taking my first tentative steps toward a fellow seeker of the truth, or is it a trap. Your "is this out there enough for you" ending makes me think you are an ally. I hadn´t heard of Ron Moore until a few weeks ago, and I have honestly never been on a forum before. I only got this, my first computer, six months ago. You say "from what I know of Ron Moore" like you know him pretty well. And Mr Moore likes to surprise everyone with something that nobody saw coming. I think if maybe somebody did see it coming it might cause problems. So tell me if I am spoiling things for people and I will stop. I dont know about Helo being the final cylon, but he is the moral compass of the show. I have posted before that I think one of the strongest storylines has been how Helo´s love for Sharon, even knowing she was a cylon. He was all in and so was she. As a consequence, she saved the entire fleet - Sharon, a cylon. I did the post below before I Read your post. It is a response to Mr Enigma´s "why didn´t Anders eye light up on Caprica´when cylons were around" post. I suppose the honest thing is to just post it as I wrote it.

Maybe the Final Five were only activated when they came to the nebula and/or through the song?


Good point, But. Please, please, please, think about this carefully: Everyone, even me, believes that the final five are somehow superior or senior to the other seven. Clearly, the first seven are in awe or even frightened of the final five. Now, imagine Anders on Caprica risking his life fighting the cylons. If he really was a final fiver, would they risk a centaurian killing him because he was not activated? Of course not. Think about this, because it really DOES blow a huge hole in the universally accepted view that he is a final fiver. The logic is flawless. I think his eye did not glow on Caprica because he was and is human, and they hadnt put the chip in him yet. Perhaps it is time to think about who is really clutching at straws.

My intentions are honorable. I am not trying to cause trouble and I definitely dont want to spoil the show for anyone. Some honest feedback please.

Thank you Mr Enigma for just opening the door a fraction.


Damn, this editing busines is difficult. I think I have said just about everything I have to say. I dont think I will post again, but before I go to bed, I just want to say two things. First, Thankyou for everything the show has given me, and secondly, that often, when I have watched an episode late at night, especially those episodes that finish, after another ordeal has been survived, with wonderful tender moments between people who love each other, it has given me an overwhelming desire to go in and kiss my two beautiful daughters before I go to bed. I can´t imagine anyone is ever going to say anything nicer than that about the show.

[Shane]

I figure that the final five are like were the first developed cylons. There were developmentally a flawed so then they were forgetting. Maybe because they realized there were joining the colonial miltary... Tigh for example.

Then came the 7 others, and were never informed of the but were considered far superior than the first five because of better programing.

That's my "theory" in simple form.

[Coopsomulous]

Shane, maybe the final 5 were created first and we made too 'human' - hence were forgotten / disposed of / kicked of the cylon world by the others.

Also timbo, I dont think that there was ever an original human to the cylon models. Hence, Anders was a cylon while he was on caprica. Perhaps the centurions dont know who the final 5 are (they are new models) - The centurions I would assume are programed by the 7. The raiders may have been built and programed by the original cylon centurions / hybrids, hence they know who the final 5 are and hence will not attack a fellow cylon.

As for me saying I know Ron D Moore, I mean that in the sense that I have seen what he has done on other series, star trek - specifically Deep Space 9 and from this I believe that he likes doing something big and unexpected, but that ultimately works.

Hopefully in a few weeks we will know how the 5 are different and who the last cylons is. Unfortunatly, I dont think we will know 100% who the last cylon is until late in the season, i'll guess episode 17.

On a completely different track, I think I heard that Seelix callsign is Hardball and Anders callsign is Long Shot (early in HTBIM) - Does anyone know if this is correct?

[Starstruck]

Halleleulah !!! Am I taking my first tentative steps toward a fellow seeker of the truth, or is it a trap. Your "is this out there enough for you" ending makes me think you are an ally. I hadn´t heard of Ron Moore until a few weeks ago, and I have honestly never been on a forum before. I only got this, my first computer, six months ago. You say "from what I know of Ron Moore" like you know him pretty well. And Mr Moore likes to surprise everyone with something that nobody saw coming. I think if maybe somebody did see it coming it might cause problems. So tell me if I am spoiling things for people and I will stop. I dont know about Helo being the final cylon, but he is the moral compass of the show. I have posted before that I think one of the strongest storylines has been how Helo´s love for Sharon, even knowing she was a cylon. He was all in and so was she. As a consequence, she saved the entire fleet - Sharon, a cylon. I did the post below before I Read your post. It is a response to Mr Enigma´s "why didn´t Anders eye light up on Caprica´when cylons were around" post. I suppose the honest thing is to just post it as I wrote it.

Maybe the Final Five were only activated when they came to the nebula and/or through the song?


Good point, But. Please, please, please, think about this carefully: Everyone, even me, believes that the final five are somehow superior or senior to the other seven. Clearly, the first seven are in awe or even frightened of the final five. Now, imagine Anders on Caprica risking his life fighting the cylons. If he really was a final fiver, would they risk a centaurian killing him because he was not activated? Of course not. Think about this, because it really DOES blow a huge hole in the universally accepted view that he is a final fiver. The logic is flawless. I think his eye did not glow on Caprica because he was and is human, and they hadnt put the chip in him yet. Perhaps it is time to think about who is really clutching at straws.

My intentions are honorable. I am not trying to cause trouble and I definitely dont want to spoil the show for anyone. Some honest feedback please.

Thank you Mr Enigma for just opening the door a fraction.


Damn, this editing busines is difficult. I think I have said just about everything I have to say. I dont think I will post again, but before I go to bed, I just want to say two things. First, Thankyou for everything the show has given me, and secondly, that often, when I have watched an episode late at night, especially those episodes that finish, after another ordeal has been survived, with wonderful tender moments between people who love each other, it has given me an overwhelming desire to go in and kiss my two beautiful daughters before I go to bed. I can´t imagine anyone is ever going to say anything nicer than that about the show.


The seven don't know who Anders is, and neither does he. Who exactly is "risking" blowing him up on Caprica?

[timbo]

Good question. Point me in the right direction.

[timbo]

Five minutes of hard thinking later.......

Who is risking...?

Ok, I think I get it. I never thought about who? I always thought that the cylons have achieved everything they have just through networked processing power. But maybe there is a human / humans behind it all somehow. Maybe trying to teach us a lesson. Maybe it is Adama´s father. And Romo Lampkin (one of the coolest characters ever created) is his envoy, or even is him downloaded into Romo.

Another thought - I always thought that Lee and Kara´s love was always clearly deep, but somehow sexless. Through that part where they came close, but Lee wouldn´t cheat and Kara wouldn´t divorce, it seemed almost like they knew they shouldn´t, but didn´t know why. This makes me think that perhaps Zach is somehow still involved.

Now that really is out there.

[Osprey]

the entire helo argument tho rests upon -- a f5 cylon can procreate with s7 cylons whilst s7 cylons have proven to not have been able to procreate with each other. Sorry, not buying ...

/just as an aside tho, would that not be the greatest "experiment" in history for the male cylons? "look, we need all of you 4 to try to knock up lucy lawless, tricia helfer, and/or grace park. have at it!"
:-)
:-)

[Coopsomulous]

/just as an aside tho, would that not be the greatest "experiment" in history for the male cylons? "look, we need all of you 4 to try to knock up lucy lawless, tricia helfer, and/or grace park. have at it!"
:-)
:-)

I would like to be a part of that experiment ;)

[crood]

I don't believe the Final Five, were necessarily the first five humanoid Cylons. My main reasoning is that the Seven contain Cylons numbered 3, 5, 6, and 8. Leoben's, Simon's, and Cavill's numbers are unknown (assuming they all have numbers). However, there's no way the final five can all have consecutive numbers.

The longest consecutive run of numbers available is 9-12, which would be four Cylons. My guess is that Tigh, Tyrol, Ander, and Tory are 9-12 and the unrevealed Cylon is number 1.

While I don't think it's a great choice, my vote is for Dualla. My main reason is for the irony of both Starbuck and Apollo marrying Cylons.

[Starstruck]

That makes a lot of sense (that the four are 9-12 and the final is #1).

Dualla and Gaeta are the only top contenders not sitting at the Lord's Supper photo, but then, why didn't they hear the music and come to the meeting? Was Dualla on Galactica or Pegasus at the time?

[ShadowEnigma]

To have Starbuck and Anders both Cylons would be interesting, especially if they didn't tell each other. The drama that could cause could be an interesting story, just to use the fact that they are married as a way to create more drama.

[Chiefchess]

Hello, my name is Chiefchess, and I am addicted to Battlestar Galatica.:lol:
I have read the responses to this forum, and you all brought many interesting ideas. Here are my thoughts on the matter. Please feel free to respond.
1. The Final Five are "fundamentally different" from the other cylons (Producer Moore said this in an interview). What makes them different? They can get sick (think Anders on New Caprica), they can reproduce (Tyrol's son Nicholas), and they are "they who must not be named." Here are my thoughts: Tory, Tyrol, Tigh, and Anders are a completely different breed of Cylons. They are cylons who have chose to serve humans and thus are becoming human. Another way to view it is that they are a medium in which the other cylons may become more human. That could be why cylons like Cavil would be desperate to destroy the fleet and the Five with it. The Final Five are proof that Cylons and Humans can co-exist together, and some cylons cannot except that, while others would break away and join the Final Five so that they can become "human." This would suggest that there may be two cylon creators instead of one.
2. I agree that the Final Cylon is female. I also don't think it is Starbuck. I know there is a rumor that she finds a body of herself and burns it, but I think it is a trick by Leoben. Remember that the rumor is that Leoben is with Starbuck when she supposedly find her body. It could be a trick to make Starbuck think she is a cylon (and thus more likely to accept Leoben as a lover).
3. Who is the Final Cylon? I am torn between two-Laura and Dee. Laura is the dying leader and is supposed to die before the fleet finds Earth, but that doesn't mean she won't be resurrected (on a resurrection ship hidden on Earth). She is also a strong leader and lives to serve the human race. I know she is in the promotional picture and that Moore has said that none of the main characters are cylons, but maybe Laura must die before she can be revealed as the final cylon and thus take her place among them.
Dee is also a strong contender. Her name Dualla Anastasia (Dualla-Duel, Anastasia-resurrection) is suggestive, as is the suggestion by Leoben that "Adama is a cylon" (Dee is married to Lee, which would make her an Adama). Dee is winning the fight on who is the Final Cylon unless Adama marries Laura before she dies, which would make Laura an "Adama."
4. Final Ending-the humans and pro-fleet cylons (Tyrol, Tigh, Tory, Anders, the models 6 (Caprica and Natalie), the models 8 (Boomer and Athena), the Leoben models, and the final cylon) are on one side. The remaining cylons are anti-fleet and are on the other side. They will fight it out (losing many characters), but Galatica will collide with the main Cylon baseship, thus destroying the anti-fleet cylons once and for all. The survivors of the humans and pro-fleet cylons are now stranded on Earth and work to rebuild it and their lives together because those that are left realize that they are all "people." It will be a very sad and yet hopeful ending filled with irony. My jaw-dropping prediction-Cally is rumored to die soon, leaving poor Tyrol and Nicholas alone. Boomer will become a pro-fleet cylon and eventually get back with Tyrol. End result will be Tyrol and Boomer on Earth with Boomer becoming a mother to Nicholas (the son of the woman who shot her!). Now that is irony and a statement that the Cylons and humans can eventually find a way to co-exist.
Thanks for listening to my thoughts and hope to hear feedback soon.

[Starstruck]

That makes a lot of sense (that the four are 9-12 and the final is #1).

Dualla and Gaeta are the only top contenders not sitting at the Lord's Supper photo, but then, why didn't they hear the music and come to the meeting? Was Dualla on Galactica or Pegasus at the time?


Nevermind, I just remembered the Pegasus was destroyed, so Dee would have had to have been on Galactica.

[bobbavet]

I don't know the identity but have some theories on the 5th and the wormhole.


I think who ever helps Starbuck to persuade the president to use the worm hole maybe 5th Cylon. Or I think there will be a investigation party of Vipers and Raptors sent in for investigation. If the 5th is not revealed it will def be on this mission as the Cylon will want to have a bet on each way. Or maybe Sanders will be on the mission and the 5th will reveal himself to Sanders on the findings when he returns.

OR.......Has anyone thought that the president actually believes Starbuck? Like what are you going to do? Jump into the wormhole while the Cylons are like within striking distance or do a few ftl jumps around back to the wormhole and ftl jump directly into the eye (starbucks last co ordinates) when the Cylons aren't looking? Like they did a FTL to evade the Cylons and in the Ep have already done 1 or 2 FTL's (Starbucks panic) with no apparent reason. Only the Prez and the Oldman knows, as they cannot trust anyone on the ship because of the 5 unknowns.

OR....... "sex on legs"cylon says the 5 are close. We know 4 could the 5th be on the otherside of the worm hole waiting or un activated? Earth is billions of miles away, but through the wormhole literally seconds. Thats pretty close. This explains how the 5th could not be revealed at the time. We now the earth song that triggers the 4, could it be that it is being transmitted through the earth side of wormhole by the 5th?

Oh the options are endless. WooT!

[timbo]

You can´t keep a good man down.

I like the arguments in favour of Dee and Helo, but as I asked for the "none of the above " option in the poll, I have to go with Helo I suppose.

And really, I just wrot that as an excuse to put this underneath to make sure you don´t all forget. As you know, I think Tigh and the others are not cylons, but had some kind of reciever / identification device fitted in them on Caprica to make them think they were. I just read a new thread talking about the relevence of the "eyes". I am not well enough read on mythology to see what it all means, but I think The device is fitted in the right eye. I think they messed up with Tigh and he lost his eye. Maybe they had to put his in the left eye instead. I am also beginning to think that the hand of man is behind all this somehow. I can´t remember where, but yesterday I posted that maybe Adama´s father was somehow involved and also possibly Zach. The sins of the father X 2. I was thinking today that perhaps one of the twelve colonies allied themselves to the cylons in some unholy pact of war.

I feel a little ashamed that I am getting lost in the details and falling into the swirling, sucking "who is the final cylon" Dantean inferno of confusion. I thought I had something to bring to this, but I suppose now I am just trying to show how clever I am, guessing what is going to happen. Any ideas to put me on a better road? One a bit less travelled.

[timbo]

You can´t keep a good man down.

I like the arguments in favour of Dee and Helo, but as I asked for the "none of the above " option in the poll, I have to go with Helo I suppose.

And really, I just wrot that as an excuse to put this underneath to make sure you don´t all forget. As you know, I think Tigh and the others are not cylons, but had some kind of reciever / identification device fitted in them on Caprica to make them think they were. I just read a new thread talking about the relevence of the "eyes". I am not well enough read on mythology to see what it all means, but I think The device is fitted in the right eye. I think they messed up with Tigh and he lost his eye. Maybe they had to put his in the left eye instead. I am also beginning to think that the hand of man is behind all this somehow. I can´t remember where, but yesterday I posted that maybe Adama´s father was somehow involved and also possibly Zach. The sins of the father X 2. I was thinking today that perhaps one of the twelve colonies allied themselves to the cylons in some unholy pact of war.

I feel a little ashamed that I am getting lost in the details and falling into the swirling, sucking "who is the final cylon" Dantean inferno of confusion. I thought I had something to bring to this, but I suppose now I am just trying to show how clever I am, guessing what is going to happen. Any ideas to put me on a better road? One a bit less travelled.


Any suggestions, Coopsomulous?

[timbo]

I have just watched the rest of HTBIM, and my brain is on fire. I feel like Kara telling you all "you are going the wrong way". I am now absolutely more convinced than ever that Tigh and the others are not cylons. Why it is so clear to me, yet seems so unbelievable to you, I do not understand. It is a feeling. This really is weird. The Baltar thing with the boy made me cry, nearly as we went through something similar with our eldest daughter when she was two. I made my deal then, and am now trying to keep to it. This show resonates within me way way above anything else I have ever watched. Am I starting my mid-life crisis or do some of you feel the same? I dont think it is the mid-life crisis thing because I have already had two. Too much spanish sun maybe. Fried my brain. Late night posts. Deadly. Sentences without verbs. Very bad.

So maybe the REAL final five are Adama Snr, Zach, Kara´s mum plus two more that elude me now.

"outside the box is where I live"

[Osprey]

while i'm still holding to the f4/5 really are the f4/5, i will agree htbim makes it very clear that they are a much different cylon than the s7 and any other models before or since. Having 2 dead folks be in the final five just doesn't wash, among other things ...

[timbo]

Yeah but what about the Tigh eye thing. It´s at least worth considering. By someone. Please.

Sometimes I think I post some pretty cool stuff, and the next poster usually posts about the one before mine. This is like when I was at school and they wouldnt let me play. C´mon guys, let me play. Or maybe I am getting too close to the truth and the shadowy figures behind the Forum have set up a dummy alternative forum that my posts are diverted to. I feel like Truman. See what you have done to me. Three weeks ago I was a pretty average guy, now I think half the people posting are Ron Moore in disguise, Armstrong didn´t really go to the moon and Iraq is all about oil.

And when do I get my next promotion?

[bazzyb]

That last supper photo has been getting crazy amoutn of attention. I really wonder if it's supposed to mean something or if they just did it to drive us fans nuts.

I agree. I think it's very easy to overanalyse such things. Of course such analysis is understandable since we had little to do while waiting for S4

[ShadowEnigma]

Oh I don't disagree with that lol. It was nice to finally get something, even if it was a promo picture.

[caprica_six]

Ok, I really have to say something here.

Tori, Anders, Tyrol, and Tigh ARE cylons!!
Doesn't anyone else agree with me?? It seems lke this board is Cylon hating or whatever.
It makes sense that they are! Doesn't anyone understand?
They are part of the collective, they will help humanity get to Earth, thats their sole purpose in my mind. And again, all are next to something powerful that can infuence the fleet!!!

They aren't really there to harm them, they have just been activated and the Cylons notice thats somethings different. In the next few episodes something is going to change. I won't be specific, no spoilers here.

I need a reasurance of people who beleive that they are the final 4, and who is proud that they are!

[ShadowEnigma]

Yeah they are Cylons, podcast confirmed it. There is no doubt about that. Whether or not they will be helpful for humanity or cause problems, well I think that could be up for debate. I think a lot of dynamics will change in the upcoming episodes since they did find out that they are Cylons now.

[toaster_lover]

I just read a new thread talking about the relevence of the "eyes". I am not well enough read on mythology to see what it all means, but I think The device is fitted in the right eye. I think they messed up with Tigh and he lost his eye. Maybe they had to put his in the left eye instead. I am also beginning to think that the hand of man is behind all this somehow.
hmmm..i like where this is going. Interesting angle.

[timbo]

I cant believe it - some feedback and opening of minds to possibilities. Thanks fellow forum dudes. I even have Caprica six thinking she is now in the minority. By the way, I am not against them being cylons because I hate the cylons, I have stopped making cylon / human distinctions now. I am trying to take each one on their merits. This much fun on a forum? I did not think it was possible. I keep having these visions where I am in an opera house and Ron Moore whispers in my ear "they are not cylons, tell the world Timbo". No, I made that up. But I do have these visions of Tigh or Anders, at the end of an episode, hearing someone else hum the tune, and shouting "what was that", similar to Gaeta mentioning the dog bowl, just before they were about to throw him out of the airlock, and the chief said "what did you say.".

The eye thing has really sealed it for me. Free the watchtower four.


And what about my promotion.

[Starstruck]

Looking at it as a plot structure and story, I can't imagine what it would add to have the big revelation of last season (four of our beloved humans are cylons) turn out to not be true. They not only all heard the music, they knew the lyrics and were drawn to the same place to meet each other. It forces the audience to rethink cylons, and I think eventually it will force the fleet to rethink them too.

The eye thing is interesting, though, since Anders was clearly having his eye(s) scanned by the raider and Tigh doesn't have one of his eyes to be scanned. And the cylons did it! Would be a cool twist if that ends up meaning something.

[ShadowEnigma]

A lot of them are right hand people. If the right eye is somehow connected, maybe it could do something with that. Especially since Tigh lost his right eye, and in a sense he lost his place somewhat of being the right hand man. Though that doesn't explain all four of them, but it's an idea.

[toaster_lover]

1. tigh lost his right eye
2. tigh shot adama in adamas right eye
3. anders' right eye was scanned....

if the episodes start to begin with a closeup of an eye, someone from Lost should prolly look into this...







:)

[toaster_lover]

Thanks fellow forum dudes.

and dudettes :lol:

[timbo]

Yeah sorry. Thanks dudes and especially dudettes.

Just had an idea. This time I am not even very convinced myself, but I´m gonna toss it out there all the same. We have all assumed that Tigh and co come as a package - all cylon (99% of the fans), or all human (1%). What if some are cylon and some human. Part of some nasty cylon trick. That Tory cant be trusted, but Tigh and the chief - no way. Jury´s out on Anders.

Do you guys get to see the next episode tommorrow?

What about my promotion?

[buerger23]

:) I think that they're all cylons and that one of the current cylon models are the fifth think about it. It would reason to say this because the fifth would be a bridge to the current models.

[Leoben]

I think in order for the gap between and Cylon to be bridged, you will need a lot more than a simple answer like "we are all Cylons" or "we are all humans".

Cylons attacked us because we enslaved them, then came back to finish the job.

Humans continue to fight the Cylons, mainly because they have no other choice, but also due to the fact that the Cylons obliterated most of humanity.

I think everyone being the same race isn't enough to bridge the gap.

[Coopsomulous]

Yeah sorry. Thanks dudes and especially dudettes.

Just had an idea. This time I am not even very convinced myself, but I´m gonna toss it out there all the same. We have all assumed that Tigh and co come as a package - all cylon (99% of the fans), or all human (1%). What if some are cylon and some human. Part of some nasty cylon trick. That Tory cant be trusted, but Tigh and the chief - no way. Jury´s out on Anders.

Do you guys get to see the next episode tommorrow?

What about my promotion?

I agree that Tory cant be trusted. Dont know why, just some gut feeling after seeing 6 of 1 and HTBIM.

Nice theory timbo, but I dont think that the writers will make things that confusing. I still think that the 4/5 are full cylons, just exactly how they differ I am not entirely sure. The one thing that is apparent is that the Raiders can tell them apart from humans.

Heres a question though, if the raiders can distinguish between f5 cylon and human, and hence decide that they cannot risk attacking the fleet, why cant they directly communicate the info to the skin jobs on the baseship. As far as I could tell, the skin jobs didn't know why they retreated as the Hybrid acted on the Raiders info. I would have thought that the raiders would have been capable of communicating directly with the skin jobs, especially since I remember a scene saying the raiders dont get a vote. This implies some sort of direct communication between the Raiders and the skinjobs.

Anyhow, Im still betting on a huge and unexpected reveal for the final cylon. Main bet is still Helo for reasons I have explained before on this thread. Im suspisious of Dee but cant give any solid evidence for her being a cylon.

Enjoying reading all these theories

[ShadowEnigma]

They raiders are most likely programmed not to communicate that back to the skin jobs, in the same way they are programmed not to think about the final five.

[timbo]

Quote from Coopsomulous - Heres a question though, if the raiders can distinguish between f5 cylon and human, and hence decide that they cannot risk attacking the fleet, why cant they directly communicate the info to the skin jobs on the baseship. As far as I could tell, the skin jobs didn't know why they retreated as the Hybrid acted on the Raiders info. I would have thought that the raiders would have been capable of communicating directly with the skin jobs, especially since I remember a scene saying the raiders dont get a vote. This implies some sort of direct communication between the Raiders and the skinjobs. End of quote (I dont know how to use the quote thing properly)




Good question. I have no idea.

When you guys start talking about "and this leads to the question.... which then leads us on to.........." I get a bit lost. You guys sometimes peel the onion back six or seven layers. If I try to do that, I cut myself or start crying. I suppose you are saying that the difference between the five and the seven is really important and has huge implications for the story. Since everyone started talking about the raiders being sentient, I have been thinking about Dr Moreau and his island of man made monsters. Scar clearly seemed to have a personality, and maybe the idea of that episode was to make us consider the raiders as individuals with character traits.

[timbo]

My tentative choice was Helo, but I am beginning to think that Hot Dog (what is his name?)also has some special part to play, so I have decided to put all my chips on him. Someone mentioned something about hiding the answer in full view of everyone, and Hot Dog always looks as if he is about to say something important, then decides to hold his tongue. I have nothing to back this up, just instinct again. Every time we see him in close up, I get the impression that there is a lot going on behind the cool "bad boy" expression he usually wears. It kinda fits with the idea that when we do find out, it will be a "oh yeah, of course, I should have seen it coming" moment. Plus, I like Hot Dog - he went back to fight alongside Starbuck when she took on all eight.

[buerger23]

We'll maybe a current skin job could be the fifth. They could've sherved to bridge the gap between skin jobs being a concept and to them being a reality. IDK it's was just a thought but I don't think anyone will know for sure until they decide to reveal it to us?

[Leoben]

Well no one will know for sure until they tell us, that is true, but there is what's plausible and what isn't within the scope of the story.

For example, minor extra #894 is probably not our final Cylon and while a current Human model would be an interesting twist, I really don't think that is anymore likely.

Regardless of my theory on who our last Cylon is, I still think it'll be a big name, who we've gotten attached to in some form.

[buerger23]

I agree with you there about the part of it being a big name which is why I don't bite off on the former president Adar was the 5th cylon.

[Leoben]

Yeah he is way way too minor. If it wasn't for one of Laura's flashbacks when she was dying, we wouldn't have even seen the guy.

[buerger23]

Right so this is why it can't be him are there any reasons why he could be though?

[ShadowEnigma]

We'll maybe a current skin job could be the fifth. They could've sherved to bridge the gap between skin jobs being a concept and to them being a reality. IDK it's was just a thought but I don't think anyone will know for sure until they decide to reveal it to us?

Though I agree this could be an interesting twist, I don't know if they would do that. That's a pretty big twist that they would have to do a decent amount of explaining... especially since none of the FF are known to have copies.

[buerger23]

A model of cylons could have been modelled after the FFifth and the rest of the skin jobs would just be a different body and F5 skin job would be somewhere and someone like "Boomer" or "Caprica 6".

[Coopsomulous]

No offense mate, but that seems like a bit of a crazy idea. Im all for crazy, but I personally dont think that the last member of the final 5 will be a model, perhaps original, of a skin job we already know.

My guess is that the final cylon thinks they are human and are not aware of who they are. I think this is confirmed with the Hybrids speach in Razor.

[buerger23]

My "a current model is the fifth theory" was just a theory that the more I thought about it. It made sense but please explain where you heard the FFifth revealed or talked about in the Hybrid's speech. And secondly Razor and the Hybrid itself raised a lot more questions than it answered. These again are only my thoughts but I think everyone's got to agree with me about Razor asking more questions than it answered.

[Coopsomulous]

This is the Hybrid speach from the extended DVD version of razor - its a voice over as the team board the basestar.

"Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves. The pain of revelation bringing new clarity and in the midst of confusion, he will find her. Enemies brought together by impossible longing Enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of one splintering into many. And then, they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel."

Obviously, the part about the fifth reads:
And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.

Im obviously interpreting that the "still in shadow" part means that the final cylon is not aware that they are a cylon. I do agree that Razor brings up many questions, I just personally feel that the final cylon is someone who doesnt know they are a cylon at the moment

[buerger23]

I do agree that Razor brings up many questions, I just personally feel that the final cylon is someone who doesn't know they are a cylon at the moment

It brings up so many but I guess that was to just get us ready for season 4 and start some new lines of questions. But the part about how the cylons will split could mean either the Centurion revolution or the models becoming more individualistic?

[JDS]

Why the hell is Gaeta winning this poll???

[buerger23]

Ya really, whoever thinks Gaeta is going to win, post and put your reason. I'm curious to see what your reasoning is? I'm all for a skin job as FFifth.

[Leoben]

Gaeta is bested in my "who gives a crap" list only by Dee. He at least has done a few notable things in the series, but still.

[buerger23]

The notable things are:

Feeds the resistance
Almost gets killed
Works in the CIC and you see him 3/4 of the episodes.

That's defiantly not enough to make him the Final Cylon. The Final Cylon as I have said from the beginning will be somebody very integral to the show and it will be a bombshell to the viewers.

[JDS]

There's one character that nobody's mentioned yet...Galactica herself! We ARE talking about a robotic species after all...maybe somewhere buried in the ship is the consciousness of one more Cylon...I have no idea how this would work out, though...

[Leoben]

Well that would be a shocker, I'm not sure how I'd feel about it. On the bright side, it isn't Dee.

I somehow doubt the ship would be a Cylon. We could have some HAL 9000 crap going on.

[JDS]

I doubt it, but...if you had to pick one single protagonist of the series, I'd say it wouldn't be William Adama, Lee Adama, or Starbuck. It would be Galactica. And yet I think that a lot of the time, people start to take the ship for granted and just start thinking of it as the background to the story rather than a major player. If Galactica were brought to the forefront by becoming the linchpin to this whole human/Cylon mess, it would be a real feat of storytelling.

[Jason1975]

Here is the funny thing. By the time that BSG is over, I believe that the reveal of the final cylon will not be the big bombshell that people expect. Do I think there will be bombshells in the story? Yes. However these bombshells will answer some of these questions? Why and how are the Adamas so important to this story. How did Baltar and Kara Thrace survive certain death. With that, How are they related? The story might even reveal who the god or gods are.

[buerger23]

That would be interesting but I'd like the final cylon to be the hiatus cliffhanger and for Starbuck and Co. will jump to earth but someone/something will be waiting?

[JDS]

That would be interesting but I'd like the final cylon to be the hiatus cliffhanger and for Starbuck and Co. will jump to earth but someone/something will be waiting?Maybe the Earth is populated entirely by Starbucks.

A giant global Starbuck lesbian orgy :lol: :lol: :lol:

[buerger23]

Well ain't that just great because you know we all a whole bunch of lesbian starbuck's

[timbo]

Here is the funny thing. By the time that BSG is over, I believe that the reveal of the final cylon will not be the big bombshell that people expect. Do I think there will be bombshells in the story? Yes. However these bombshells will answer some of these questions? Why and how are the Adamas so important to this story. How did Baltar and Kara Thrace survive certain death. With that, How are they related? The story might even reveal who the god or gods are.




Haleleujah. I concur totally. The other night, I whispered to my wife in bed "Do you know, I think BSG might actually help me find my way to God (capital G please, Jason), and do you know what? she just turned into a bat and flew out the window. No, that´s not true, she said c´mere and I´ll show you the way to God. No, made that up too. Anyway, my point is that I really believed, and still do, that this show is more than the sum of its parts. Something strange and wonderful is taking place before us. I lost my mojo a little when I got bogged down in the guessing game, but your post was a breath of fresh air. I am not sure I can answer any of your questions, but I do think that at least they are the right questions.

Just so that you dont all think I have come completely to my senses, I still think the watchtower four are not cylons.

Let me tell you a story......

Timbo is deep inside a long train tunnel, taking a short cut with a few of his friends. In the distance, two faint lights appear and one of Timbo´s friends says "that might be a train". Timbo says "no, it is just two fireflies dancing in the warmth of the evening. The lights get brighter and are now accompanied by a low rumbling and another of the group says "Timbo, I think it´s a train, I think we should get out of the tunnel". Timbo, blind to his friends concern says" look the pretty fireflies are putting on a show for us". Timbo´s friends turn and begin to run for safety, screaming now, Timbo, Timbo, it´s a freight train, run. Finally, Timbo is alone in the tunnel, his friends having long since fled to safety. The tunnel is now flooded with the light of a thousand suns and there is deafening roar rattling the tunnel to its very bones. Timbo, his eyes carrying a serene glaze, kneels and holds out a steady hand and says "come fragile fireflies, settle on my palm and dance just for me".

.............to be continued.

[buerger23]

Nice Story Timbo. I am curious why you don't think the watchtower 4 are cylons. And what is the relevance of the story??? :D

[timbo]

Thank you Buerger.

I cant give you anything concrete as to why they are not cylons. I have simply had an overwhelming feeling, similar perhaps to Kara, that they weren´t cylons and that everyone else was going the wrong way. Not just a feeling like "I think it might rain", but a feeling so strong, it made me join a forum for the first time in my life. This one.

My little story was supposed to be a window to my world. You perhaps haven´t seen my persistent rantings as much as the others on the forum, as I have tried to tone it down a little lately. But, the story is supposed to paralel the idea of me being the only one who thinks they are not cylons, and who doesn´t see the train coming despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Read it again now, and see if it makes sense. Buerger, I have enjoyed reading your ideas, but I am a little disappointed and embarrassed that I have to explain the metaphor.

By the way, I love your machine gun approach to the forum. It looks like you load up your posting gun, set it on automatic, shut your eyes and just hold the trigger down until the thing is empty. When the smoke clears, you have plastered every thread on the forum with an opinion.
Absolutely brilliant. I got up earlier in the week with the monday morning blues, but when I had a quick look at the forum before work, it put a smile on my face to see your name at the end of every thread. That enthusiasm is infectious.

[Leoben]

Timbo, you stand by your opinions, and I admire that, even if I don't agree with them.

Really at this point, especially with some of the things we see in todays episode. The evidence just keeps stacking up that these 4 people, are in fact, Cylons. I'm curious though, why you, and others, feel that they aren't or shouldn't be (I've read your posts, I'm just not 100% clear). Does it make say....Chief, a bad person or an disliked character now? Is it their humanity that really makes you step back and say "hey wait now"?

I'm just trying to get a clearer idea of where your coming from.

[Jason1975]

Timbo, The Watchtower Four are cylons. However they are not like the S7. They are probably the closest thing that a cylon can be being human. So I agree with Leoben, they are cylons.

[Leoben]

Way to sum it up Jason. I like that, the F5 are the closest thing a Cylon can get to be human. Good stuff.



Granted after todays episode, we see a bit of the behavior we associate with the S7. Very interesting.

[Jason1975]

I know I am going to drive Leoben crazy but here it goes. :p

What I am to do is a little bit lengthy process but I just want to bring it up for people to think about it. Could it be crazy. You bet. Thats half the fun.

Seeing what Anastasia means I did some more digging with other names.

Then something interesting happened when I looked up name Zarek.
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Zarek

The boy's name Zarek \z(a)-rek\ is pronounced ZAR-ek. It is of Polish origin. Nickname or short form of Belshazzar (Babylonian) "Baal protect the king". Biblical: the son of Nebuchadnezzar, and the last king of Babylon. At a famous feast held by Belshazzar, handwriting appeared on the wall of the hall, warning of the king's doom. This led to our saying, "the writing is on the wall".

Then I clicked on the name Belshazzar
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Belshazzar

The boy's name Belshazzar \belsh(az)-zar\ is a variant of Balthasar. See also Zarek.

Then I clicked on the Balthasar
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Balthasar

The boy's name Balthasar \b(a)-ltha-sar, bal-thasar\ is of Babylonian origin, and its meaning is "Baal protect the king".
Balthasar has 8 variant forms: Baldassare, Baltasar, Baltazar, Balthasaar, Balthazaar, Balthazar, Balto and Belshazzar.

So looking up meaning of Zarek name I might have gotten where they got name Baltar from. They could mean the same thing. It is something to think about with the last cylon.

[Leoben]

Well Jason, the post didn't contain "Dualla is a Cylon" so we're cool. :P That's an interesting find for sure. If memory serves Baltar was called Baltar back in the TOS, so I'm not sure how much we can take from it. His first name might hide more clues if we're doing the name game.

My money still rests with Gaius though on being our Final Cylon, you can scroll back a few pages on one of these F5 threads for my shaved down theory.

I think we'll be seeing more of Mr. Zarek in the episodes to come, especially if this week was any indication. I'm just not sure he fits the bill for our final one. Still, at least I wouldn't be as disappointed if it were him, though he still doesn't carry enough weight for me yet.

[buerger23]

Well that is got to be the coolest thing ever. You would have though that they wouldn't put that much thought into the names.

[timbo]

Timbo, you stand by your opinions, and I admire that, even if I don't agree with them.

Really at this point, especially with some of the things we see in todays episode. The evidence just keeps stacking up that these 4 people, are in fact, Cylons. I'm curious though, why you, and others, feel that they aren't or shouldn't be (I've read your posts, I'm just not 100% clear). Does it make say....Chief, a bad person or an disliked character now? Is it their humanity that really makes you step back and say "hey wait now"?

I'm just trying to get a clearer idea of where your coming from.




Okay. I really did mean to tone it down a bit and stop annoying everyone with this, but I am flattered that you ask me why and so I will try to explain. Firstly, I am what I appear to be - a fan. I had never even looked at a forum before I joined this one, and I don´t look at or use any other forum. I like this one. I got hooked on the show almost instantly mainly because I recognised a lot of the spiritual ideas and themes on the show from what I have seen and read as member of a fellowship that has helped me recover from alcoholism. The ideas in the show resonated so strongly in me that I decided to see if other people felt the same. You see, the cylons didn´t need to destroy my home planet, because up until about twenty years ago, I was making a pretty good job of destroying it myself. Anyway, I looked at the forums and liked this one. When I saw what people were writing, I thought I want to do that too. Around the time I joined the forum, I watched the two crossroads episodes and thought that they were brilliant - Lee´s speech, Baltar´s praying and the watchtower tune, great stuff. Through the last episode, I saw it coming that the people who were hearing the tune would take it to mean that they were cylons, being contacted somehow. I saw it coming so clearly that I thought it can´t be right. It honestly has nothing to do with whether I want them to be cylons or can´t accept them being cylons. I have no hidden agenda. From the start I thought that the line between human and cylon was being deliberately blurred, and I liked that. You know, we are all brothers under the skin and all that. I was not making myself have an opinion, it just came. Really strongly. So while I really joined the forum to talk about the echoes of the spiritual stuff that I was hearing, at the same time, I couldn´t not write about this idea that Tigh and co weren´t cylons. I know the evidence is overwhelmingly against me, but I can´t seem to shake it off. When the show reaches its conclusion and I am almost certainly proved wrong, I wont feel bad or embarrassed because all I will have done is followed my instincts. That is what spiritual is - something that you can´t touch or explain, but that feels right. These days, my intuition machine is surprisingly reliable. If I am wrong about all of this, it wont be the end of the world. I still think the bigger ambitions of the show are truly noble and deserve more attention than all of the guessing games. I understand that these games are important too, as they give us all a starting point to start making friends, exchanging ideas and firing up each other´s enthusiasm, but hopefully, once hooked we will be open to the ideas on offer. I understand your confusion and perhaps mistrust of why someone would choose to disbelieve the universally accepted storyline. Honestly, I didn´t choose to think it, it just came, and I am not playing devils advocate just for the fun of seeing the sparks fly. So all of this is a pretty long winded way to say "I don´t really know where I am coming from", but hopefully I have convinced you at least that my motives are honorable.

Buenas noches mis amigos.

[JDS]

The other night, I whispered to my wife in bed "Do you know, I think BSG might actually help me find my way to God (capital G please, Jason), and do you know what? she just turned into a bat and flew out the window. No, that´s not true, she said c´mere and I´ll show you the way to God. No, made that up too.She said, "You're a stupid frakker and if you don't shut up, you're sleeping on the couch tonight!" :lol: :lol: :lol:

Really at this point, especially with some of the things we see in todays episode. The evidence just keeps stacking up that these 4 people, are in fact, Cylons.I know that you're not revealing any plot points, but I really wish you would just keep it simple and not bring up the episodes until 10:00 PM Fridays.

BaltasarBaltarstar Galactica (http://wiki.frakr.com/en/Baltarstar_Galactica)? :lol:

Seriously though, that's some excellent research. I really want to know whether that's hinting at a significant connection between Zarek and Baltar, or if it's just a wild coincidence.

[Leoben]

I don't even realize I'm doing it, sorry man.

Timbo, that helps a bunch actually. Your opinions are yours, and quite honestly you (like all of us) are posting them out here for the the community to see, which is gutsy, especially cause not everyone will agree. Keep the posts coming man.

[JDS]

It's okay, just watch what you say. Loose lips sink ships, after all.

[Leoben]

On the bright side I suppose, if rumors prove true, I wont even be able to slip up next week.

[timbo]

I don't even realize I'm doing it, sorry man.

Timbo, that helps a bunch actually. Your opinions are yours, and quite honestly you (like all of us) are posting them out here for the the community to see, which is gutsy, especially cause not everyone will agree. Keep the posts coming man.


Thanks. That was a nice thing to say.

[buerger23]

Well now who is the final cylon? It is definatly one of the S7

TRICKED ALL YOU!!!!!!! No spoilers here!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :D:D:D

I'm sorry I'm really bored. If you have no idea what I'm talking about look at the spoiler!

[timbo]

Nice one burger dude, you got me good.

[buerger23]

Ha, First one and probably the last I doubt anyone else will fall for it though. After reading these.

[timbo]

Are you a lighthouse keeper?

[buerger23]

Yes, how did you guess? I'm very amazed with you Timbo! Congratulations :D :D :D :D :D :D

[britboyj]

"Soon there will be four, glorious in awakening, struggling with the knowledge of their true selves.

This is obvious now.

The pain of revelation bringing new clarity and in the midst of confusion, he will find her.

He will find her is a bit odd and something we probably don't have a whole lot of information on. Virtual Balter finding Virtual Six? Anders finding Kara? Lee finding Kara when she shows back up again?

Enemies brought together by impossible longing Enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable.

The Cylon Civil war we saw a start of this week will [supposedly] lead to an alliance with the colonials by SOME of the Cylon models.

And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering.

Someone who's done something. It could be Baltar, but it really could be anyone. Baltar would be a cop-out and I'd be really, really disappointed if he was, personally.

I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of one splintering into many.

Referring to the S7, with a boxed D'anna, which makes them sex. One splintering into many could also be indicative of Boomer voting against the other Eights.

And then, they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel."


They're all either going to find Earth together, or die. That's my reasoning of that at least.

[timbo]

How do I chop up the quotes like that?

Off to the coast now, to escape the madness.

JDS - the mocking bird is no stranger to me, and I am happy to give you a few laughs at my expense.

Viva Sant Jordi

[ShadowEnigma]

Referring to the S7, with a boxed D'anna, which makes them sex. One splintering into many could also be indicative of Boomer voting against the other Eights.

Which makes them sex? :lol: Sorry I couldn't resist.

[cylonsmurf]

i remember reading somewhere in an interview with RDM that the final cylon was not either adama, rosalin, thrace, or baltar. he also said that the final cylon has been here since s1. in "razor", it was referenced that the final cylon was in the shadows, seeking redemption. my guess is that the final cylon is tom zarek. he was found in the shadows in the prison ship from s1. and ever since he has been operating in background...and he wouldnt he be seeking some kind of "redemption" as he was headed to his parole hearing as the cylon sneak attack broke out? and currently he's playing counter-weight to rosalin, using lee adama as his tool of checks and balances against rosalin's evolving machievellian character. just a thought.

[Leoben]

Zarek is not seeking redemption. The man was offered a full pardon in the events before the attack if he would merely apologize for his actions. He refused, the man believes in his causes and his actions and has no regrets.

Zarek is an interesting character, but I wouldn't count on him being the final Cylon.

[buerger23]

I don't think he is the final cylon.

1) He would have accepted the Pardon.
2) What's so special about him? He's was and Interplanetary terrorist that was fighting for something that probably had nothing to do with the Cylons.
3) There would be something in his background functions if he was a Cylon to say don't get that much attention!

[Jason1975]

I like looking up meaning of names of characters in the show. So I decided to look at the meaning call signs. So here is one. I put in Spoiler tags because I really believe that is a big clue. However, Is it a big clue about the last cylon?

I looked up Husker. The call sign for William Adama I got the meaning of Husk from this website http://www.thefreedictionary.com/husker
husk (hhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ubreve.gifsk)n.1. The outer membranous or green envelope of some fruits or seeds, as that of a walnut or an ear of corn.
2. A shell or outer covering, especially when considered worthless.
3. A framework serving as a support.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

It's been said that he's called "husker" because of his voice, as in:

husky 1 |ˈhəskē|
adjective ( huskier , huskiest )
1 (of a voice or utterance) sounding low-pitched and slightly hoarse.
2 strong; hefty : Patrick looked a husky, strong guy.
3 like or consisting of a husk or husks.

Which clearly describes Adama's voice. ;-)

[Dzonatas]

I studied what Three did to Novachek (Hero), and I thought that Novachek was the fifth. I'm not convinced now after I read this thread (with/about comments from RDM).

What people call Chip Six or Internal Six is what I call IL-Six and IL-Baltar. If you read back, TOS had the IL-Cylon models. Baltar ideal role hasn't changed, but his overall character is quite different. I like the chaotic bits of Baltar in the new series. When he made president, I was like, right on, this show is 'frakkin out-there.'

Baltar is human. I quick review of TOS confirms that even without RDM's quotes. It appears #1 has picked up some of the evil side of Baltar from TOS, so the role was obvioulsy split.

Back to the IL-Cylons. There were two of them, in the TOS -- Lucifer and Specter. The role of IL-Cylons matches exactly what Chip Six and Chip Baltar does, except that in TOS, everyone could see the IL-Cylons, and they removed the TOS's 'demonic' character, and... k 'nuff said there =)

Based on that, I doubt we'll know who the last cylon is for sure. It wouldn't surprise me if the end left it a question among a few. I don't think RDM will point it out as 'hey yo... i'm the last cylon... whoopeedoo... lets party and kill some frak'n cylon haters'!!!

Novachek met the criteria pretty well, but I suspect the idea was ditched. It would mean that Adama's secret mission was much more than already explained. Also, someone told Adama about the 12 before others knew, so why did he even have to know? Further, he kinda kept silent about how much he knew -- even though we knew he knew.

Roslin, it appears she was a maybe. She's got the cylon dna helping her now, so if anything, she is afraid its going to turn her into one from the inside out. We can see how her character was developed so that if any other cylon detected her then that cylon would be a dead cylon. The RDM note about the last supper picture places her out of the selection.

Kendra, oh yes, she is frak'n hot. Both Tyrol and Kendra have such a hard core acting style. Either one could be sighted as the final one and pull it off for the series with their acting skill. However, if we consider some things carried over from TOS, the reincarnation bit just won't fly since RDM already stated that there is no sped-up growth among the newborns.

Gaeta, omg... reminds me of Data. BSG has stayed pretty far away from ST:TNG ambiance except for the 1701D locker bit, um... spare me -- He's not a bad actor, but I would go apologize to all those I recommended to watch BSG.

Dee -- too obvious. Besides, I don't think RDM (or Sci-Fi channel) wants another Locutus out of Adama or Dee. No.. no.. no... back to the ambiance of TOS plz

Kara, nope. The Beings of Light from TOS have started to have a role here. I think we'll see who one of the Beings of Light are before we'll find who might be the final cylon.

Whos is the final one? You'll have to watch Caprica to figure it out from the few possibilities at the end of S4. =p

[Jason1975]

I
Roslin, it appears she was a maybe. She's got the cylon dna helping her now, so if anything, she is afraid its going to turn her into one from the inside out. We can see how her character was developed so that if any other cylon detected her then that cylon would be a dead cylon. Last supper note left her out of the pick, in the end.


What do you mean? I know she was in BSG last supper picture. She was on the far left in the picture.

http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/images/downloads/desktops/season04_800.jpg (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/images/downloads/desktops/season04_800.jpg)

[Dzonatas]

Sorry, "pick" as in selection for final five... not "pic" as in picture as she is in that..

[buerger23]

I like looking up meaning of names of characters in the show. So I decided to look at the meaning call signs. So here is one. I put in Spoiler tags because I really believe that is a big clue. However, Is it a big clue about the last cylon?

I looked up Husker. The call sign for William Adama I got the meaning of Husk from this website http://www.thefreedictionary.com/husker
husk (hhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ubreve.gifsk)n.1. The outer membranous or green envelope of some fruits or seeds, as that of a walnut or an ear of corn.
2. A shell or outer covering, especially when considered worthless.
3. A framework serving as a support.

That would mean his outer shell is worthless and what does that mean?

[Coopsomulous]

I'm now hoping that the final cylon is Cally, cos she is hot.

On that note, what if the final cylon is someone who has been killed and somehow resurrected, possilbly on a "final 5 resurrection ship". This would allow for so many more possibilities, such as Cally (ignoring the whole kid problem), Kat, Jammer, Kendra, Adm Cain, Billy, etc. I think we may be ignoring a significant portion of the people involved in the story.

And being "dead" they obviously wouldn't be in the last supper photo as that would be a give away.

[timbo]

I'm now hoping that the final cylon is Cally, cos she is hot.

On that note, what if the final cylon is someone who has been killed and somehow resurrected, possilbly on a "final 5 resurrection ship". This would allow for so many more possibilities, such as Cally (ignoring the whole kid problem), Kat, Jammer, Kendra, Adm Cain, Billy, etc. I think we may be ignoring a significant portion of the people involved in the story.

And being "dead" they obviously wouldn't be in the last supper photo as that would be a give away.

Is Billy dead? I missed that. When did he die?

[fijnemens]

Roslin!

[ShadowEnigma]

Timbo, Billy died in the Sacrifice (Ep 216)

[timbo]

Timbo, Billy died in the Sacrifice (Ep 216)


It´s not really surprising that nobody takes my ideas seriously, is it.

[timbo]

Timbo, Billy died in the Sacrifice (Ep 216)

Wait a moment. I was going to write an idea that I thought Billy, Dualla, Gaeta and maybe Seelix were really four of the FF. OK, it´s all falling into place at last. Everyone seems to assume that essentially "good" people are just there as padding. The meek shall inherit the Earth. The fifth might be Tigh.


About me missing Billy being dead - it is inexcusable, I know but I am watching downloads at the moment, and a couple of the episodes were really bad quality. When the show finishes, I will buy the box set, I promise.


Who is this guy Adama, everyone is talking about?

[Osprey]

Bill's callsign is "husker" is most likely a nod to his gravelly voice, which btw was very well done by that actor who bascially channelled a young ejo ...

[timbo]

I just had this great image in my mind. I´m sure everyone has had that thing where you´re on a stationary train in a station, and the train on the next line moves away and you think you are moving until the last carriage passes and there is that weird inertia moment, when everything stops and you realise you weren´t moving. I think that´s how you are all going to feel when the final cylons are revealed.

[buerger23]

You mean the sort of stomach-lurch feeling. And where if your on a zip line and you close your eyes you think in the next metre you're going to hit the ground and when that doesn't happen you feel like your falling through the ground.

Wait a moment. I was going to write an idea that I thought Billy, Dualla, Gaeta and maybe Seelix were really four of the FF. OK, it´s all falling into place at last. Everyone seems to assume that essentially "good" people are just there as padding. The meek shall inherit the Earth. The fifth might be Tigh.

Wait isn't Tigh already a part of the FF?:(

[timbo]

You mean the sort of stomach-lurch feeling. And where if your on a zip line and you close your eyes you think in the next metre you're going to hit the ground and when that doesn't happen you feel like your falling through the ground.



Wait isn't Tigh already a part of the FF?:(

Not in my book. (By the way, I will be signing copies of my book in my toilet tommorrow, 1pm - 3pm.)

What´s a zip line?

[buerger23]

You're strapped into a harness and you hold on to these handle bar type-things. Then you jump off a platform and ride the handle bar things down a steel cable. I did the one in Hawaii it's the longest one in the world.

[timbo]

You're strapped into a harness and you hold on to these handle bar type-things. Then you jump off a platform and ride the handle bar things down a steel cable. I did the one in Hawaii it's the longest one in the world.


Yeah, then that´s it. One second you are plummeting toward the ground, then you are swept away by the ride. It tricks your senses. Just like the train thing. Just like the show.

Buerger friend, I have this image of you in my mind, where you are sitting at a sort of semi-circular console with six keyboards and monitors in front of you, and you are this "Sheeva" like figure with six arms, operating your machines, posting hundreds of ideas simultaneously. Brilliant.

Buenas noches.

[buerger23]

I know I'm a posting Machine aren't I?

You are referring to how the RDM Forum sometimes has my name beside everything aren't you.

The truth of it is I'm sort of what you call A.I or Cylon. I'm in a Computer.

[Mishakal]

The poll is closed but I think that it will be Dr. Cottle, no doctor I have ever met in real life is that ethical and since this show is supposed to aim for a certain level of realism...

Of course I would like to see another female Cylon and NOT another blond!!! Unless they drag in someone new it will most likely be Dulla in that case since she has a "backstory" but she is the only person who can verify it.

[manishmotwani]

It has to be Roslin and she knows it too, I think. A few reasons:

1. She does a telepathy session with 2.5 cylons (6, athena and her daughter). Only cylons can meet and talk like that, not humans, no matter what drugs they're taking. She is not even surprised when she finds out that 6 and athena and her daughter were in it as well.

2. When at the nebula, it's because Admiral Adama convinces Laura Roslin that he's going to nuke the entire planet that the Cylons decide to take their ships back. Laura must be communicating back with Cylons to tell them whether the Admiral is bluffing or not.

[Coopsomulous]

1. She does a telepathy session with 2.5 cylons...

2 and a half cylons. Sounds like a name for cylon tv show :p

[Starstruck]

2 and a half cylons. Sounds like a name for cylon tv show :p

Haha.

One thing I like about the idea of Roslyn being the final is the whole archetypes idea. Who is missing from the current cylon line-up, archetype wise? An older woman.

[manishmotwani]

I forgot to add point 3:

3. Roselin also wants to protect the "god's new generation", Athena and Helo's child, and considers protecting her more important than protecting hundreds of humans. We saw this when escaping from New Caprica. This is a cylon behavior, because as can be seen from other episodes, cylons want to interbreed with humans (The Farm) and Number 6 and Tory have been seen to want to protect these half human half cylons. Tory even killed Cally in order to protect her child.

I think after they reveal the last cylon they'll want to show that humans are the ones that are evil and not cylons. They'll show the cylon point of view (since most of the important characters turned out to be cylons) and how they're more superior and how humans should die =)

[Starstruck]

I forgot to add point 3:

3. Roselin also wants to protect the "god's new generation", Athena and Helo's child, and considers protecting her more important than protecting hundreds of humans. We saw this when escaping from New Caprica. This is a cylon behavior, because as can be seen from other episodes, cylons want to interbreed with humans (The Farm) and Number 6 and Tory have been seen to want to protect these half human half cylons. Tory even killed Cally in order to protect her child.

I think after they reveal the last cylon they'll want to show that humans are the ones that are evil and not cylons. They'll show the cylon point of view (since most of the important characters turned out to be cylons) and how they're more superior and how humans should die =)

I think what they're already workign with and will continue to show is that no side is evil or good. They're all flawed beings, trying to do their best and sometimes making major mistakes. Again, the whole humans and cylons aren't that different theme.

[manishmotwani]

You're right, Starstruck, but my reply was more interesting... lol

[Ukia25]

I just want say I don't think raiders can distinguish the f5. It is assumed that the Raider looked into Sander's eyes and then distinguished him as one of the f5. What really happaned with Sander looked into the Raider's eyes and sent it a message saying, "Stop attacking I'm on of the five."

If we use the theory that the Cylon's are Greek gods; and it seems to be working out. Apollo was the god of the trial system, he invented it. So the 5th Cylon being Romo Lampkin could work.

Also I think the 5 are different because of how they came to be. Human's made the Toasters and then inslaved them. The Toasters revoulted and made the Skin Jobs (the 7). but the 5 were made by the One God, who inturned was born as a human named Baltar. Also the 5 existed before the tosters, and were there with the humans on Kobol.

[Chiefchess]

Ready for a spoiler?

The final cylon has to be a female! Here's why! The new spin-off "Caprica" is a story of how two patriachs from different families (the Graystones and the Adamas) work together to make the first true cylon. The patriach of the Adamas is Commander Adama's father. He is involved in order to make a copy of his daughter (Adama's sister) Tamara, who was killed in a terrorist attack. The Graystone patriach is trying to make a copy of his daughter Zoe, who was also killed in the attack that claimed Tamara. (I got this information from several websites, so it is pretty consistent. Go to www.patriotsource.bsg.com (http://www.patriotsource.bsg.com) for a better description).

So why is the final cylon female?
1. For the ratings! The first cylon must be female (because Adama and Graystone were trying to make copies of their daughters, so it would follow the first cylon was female).
2. Second, if what we believe is true about something being very significant about the final cylon, it would make her the most important one (and thus the one most likely to be the subject of "Caprica"-I don't see the ratings going up as much for any of the other cylons except maybe for number 6, but the mystery would be gone).
3. The females are more interesting. Sorry guys, but on BSG, the females rule, both as humans and cylons. Therefore, it will be more interesting if the final cylon is a female character.

No doubt some of you are saying "wait a second, chiefchess. What about the numbering? If what we believe is true, then Cavil is 1, so he should have been first. Right?!"

Wrong. And here's why. According to spoilers about "Caprica", Graystone is fighting for a military contract to build super warriors (aka-cylons). The final cylon may be the first one made, but may be number 7 in terms of how efficient she was of the origninal 7 when it came to being a weapon of war. This theory fits, as Cavil is by far the most efficient at cold-blooded killing. Very likely the final cylon broke apart and built her own line of cylons (the final four) to help her in her agenda: To protect the people and ship destined to lead the human race to Earth (Tigh to Adama, Tory to Roslin, Sam to Starbuck, and Tyrol to BSG as chief engineer).

Of course, I could be wrong. It will be my luck that the final episode will reveal a guy (probably Baltar) as the final cylon and I will be eating crow for a year. But we will see.:)

[Dzonatas]

I was going through different pictures like IMDB and etc, and I found one that kinda spoiled it. I'm surprised the picture was up, as they usually hide that stuff.

All I'll say is that get ready for some action! =)

[leon]

Tom Zarek seems like a good possibility to me. He's a significant charcter who's floating in the background and he's not in the picture

[buerger23]

Ya, He would be good as well as a dozen other characters and knowing the writers the include thirty more in the list. And also they probably won't chose any of these characters.
So we probably won't know until they decide to show us!

[managizzle]

I was going through different pictures like IMDB and etc, and I found one that kinda spoiled it. I'm surprised the picture was up, as they usually hide that stuff.

All I'll say is that get ready for some action! =)

I don't see the spoilers on IMDB of which you speak?

[Martyr of the Cause]

I had to re-view this with Season 4 now finally underway.

Despite pushing Starbuck as a Cylon, and despite her not getitng much screen-time, I still think the final Cylon is Dualla. I think the Final Five are sent to sheperd humanity to the next cycle of life (in this case, Earth), and do so in times of extreme need, somewhat out of nowhere. Where Dualla fits this role in particular:

1. She lost the Olympic Carrier in "33". Perhaps it was just an accident, or perhaps she unconsciously realized the deal with the ship being tracked. Either way, it worked out for the best for humanity.

2. She worked with Tigh and Tory to rig the election against Baltar.

3. Dualla married Adama, an in such helped to guide him through the New Caprica mess.

And her first name means "Resurrection" in Greek (or some other language, I forget which one). She is also not in the Last Supper picture, and would make sense to be sitting between Lee (her ex) and Tigh (who she works on the bridge with).


Of course, Dualla has had one scene in Season 4, and they've been pushing the tar out of the Starbuck as a Cylon idea, so who knows there. Despite it all, Dualla still seems to fit the mold for me, but boy, with each episode, I can't help feeling pretty silly for this belief.

[Dzonatas]

I don't see the spoilers on IMDB of which you speak?

Not exactly IMDB. I avoided details for spoilers. I wonder now if what I saw would be included at all since how RDM noted a change in the story from Ties That Bind.

[timbo]

I had to re-view this with Season 4 now finally underway.

Despite pushing Starbuck as a Cylon, and despite her not getitng much screen-time, I still think the final Cylon is Dualla. I think the Final Five are sent to sheperd humanity to the next cycle of life (in this case, Earth), and do so in times of extreme need, somewhat out of nowhere. Where Dualla fits this role in particular:

1. She lost the Olympic Carrier in "33". Perhaps it was just an accident, or perhaps she unconsciously realized the deal with the ship being tracked. Either way, it worked out for the best for humanity.

2. She worked with Tigh and Tory to rig the election against Baltar.

3. Dualla married Adama, an in such helped to guide him through the New Caprica mess.

And her first name means "Resurrection" in Greek (or some other language, I forget which one). She is also not in the Last Supper picture, and would make sense to be sitting between Lee (her ex) and Tigh (who she works on the bridge with).


Of course, Dualla has had one scene in Season 4, and they've been pushing the tar out of the Starbuck as a Cylon idea, so who knows there. Despite it all, Dualla still seems to fit the mold for me, but boy, with each episode, I can't help feeling pretty silly for this belief.


Dont worry about it. I feel silly about just about every idea I have had. Anyway, I kind of agree with you. I am not sure if she is the final cylon, but I love your "shepherd" idea. By the way, in your list of contributions that she has made, you missed that it was her emotional appeal to Adama that made him decide to return to Kobol, and "put the family back together". Probably her biggest contribution. So as far as Dualla is concerned, I agree, she is not a failed character as many have stated, and it would not surprise me that she was being pushed into the background a little so that any revelation that may come would be more dramatic. Up to here you are probably pretty happy that someone likes your ideas. This is probably about to change. I also still think that Tigh and co are not cylons. I posted the other day that I think the real final five are Dualla, Doc Cottle, Gaeta, Billy and one other, and for the same reason you like Dualla. They are all in a sense "shepherds". That is exactly the word I was looking for the other day. So thanks.

I have to confess, a couple of times I have put on my ceremonial black bandana, and started to write my "forgive my stupidity, I was wrong about Tigh etc. etc" Statement, but after a few lines, I realised I couldn´t do it, because it is not true and I dont really understand why myself.

[Martyr of the Cause]

Good call about Dualla's plea to Adama to put the fleet back together. Mark that as another "out of the blue to save humanity" moment for Dualla.


Yeah, I was in denial about the Final Four for a long time. What eventually broke me of it was reading about BSG on the Wiki, then re-watching Season 2 with the foreknowledge of who many of the Cylons were. Strangely, it makes a sort of sense to it all, though the coincidence of so many of the Final Five Cylons all being on the last battlestar is pretty crazy to think about. (Of course, if you can see the future,
you'd know where you'd need to be to avoid the Holocaust of humanity.)

And yes, I'm glad someone out there still thinks Dee could be a Cylon :)

[Starstruck]

Good call about Dualla's plea to Adama to put the fleet back together. Mark that as another "out of the blue to save humanity" moment for Dualla.


Yeah, I was in denial about the Final Four for a long time. What eventually broke me of it was reading about BSG on the Wiki, then re-watching Season 2 with the foreknowledge of who many of the Cylons were. Strangely, it makes a sort of sense to it all, though the coincidence of so many of the Final Five Cylons all being on the last battlestar is pretty crazy to think about. (Of course, if you can see the future,
you'd know where you'd need to be to avoid the Holocaust of humanity.)

And yes, I'm glad someone out there still thinks Dee could be a Cylon :)

I think Dee makes the most sense for being the final Cylon if you look at the evidence, for all the reasons you mention as well as the fact that the Centurions didn't kill her (do they have the ability to recognize the five or was it coincidence), Leoben said Adama was a Cylon, and even in the picture of the final five in white robes there seems to be a short, little womans standing there. Tory ain't short!

But as others have mentioned, she won't have the dramatic impact of one of the more primary characters, unless, of course, something crazy happens to change that. At this point I honestly have no frakking clue who the last Cylon is. My mind changes all the time.

[timbo]

Good call about Dualla's plea to Adama to put the fleet back together. Mark that as another "out of the blue to save humanity" moment for Dualla.


Yeah, I was in denial about the Final Four for a long time. What eventually broke me of it was reading about BSG on the Wiki, then re-watching Season 2 with the foreknowledge of who many of the Cylons were. Strangely, it makes a sort of sense to it all, though the coincidence of so many of the Final Five Cylons all being on the last battlestar is pretty crazy to think about. (Of course, if you can see the future,
you'd know where you'd need to be to avoid the Holocaust of humanity.)

And yes, I'm glad someone out there still thinks Dee could be a Cylon :)

Please explain what you mean about being in denial about the final four, I really want to know.

.........and Starstruck, please look at that "boomer and chief again thread", and then the "how the series will ultimately end " thread, post 23 to the end, and tell me what you think. And watch that "why" scene again.

[Starstruck]

I will, Timbo, probabyy not tonight, but I will.

I have replayed the scene in my mind, and I have a sneaking suspicion you might be right and I just glossed over it. I seem to remember that when she said that he got a funny look on his face, and then had heart pain or whatever that made him let go.

As for the Joe being an insider thing...well, if he is, he better spill it when this whole thing is over! :p

[timbo]

I will, Timbo, probabyy not tonight, but I will

I have replayed the scene in my mind, and I have a sneaking suspicion you might be right and I just glossed over it. I seem to remember that when she said that he got a funny look on his face, and then had heart pain or whatever that made him let go.

As for the Joe being an insider thing...well, if he is, he better spill it when this whole thing is over! :p


Thanks, all I ask is that you look, and what you remember of the scene is on the right lines.


Joe, an insider. Yeah, it would be pretty cool, wouldnt it.


Buenas noches

[Martyr of the Cause]

I was in denial that the Four "Living in Secret" Cylons were Clyons at all. It seemed too crazy to me at first, but again, with time, it makes more and more sense (in a very weird way).

I forgot that Dee didn't get killed by the Centurions when they boarded Galactica. Interesting stuff.

[timbo]

I was in denial that the Four "Living in Secret" Cylons were Clyons at all. It seemed too crazy to me at first, but again, with time, it makes more and more sense (in a very weird way).

I forgot that Dee didn't get killed by the Centurions when they boarded Galactica. Interesting stuff.


It seemed crazy to me at first as well. It still does now. It probably seemed crazy for a reason and what you say about it making sense with time probably means popular opinion on the forum has swayed you.

I am going down with my ship.

[Starstruck]

I watched it. You're totally right, Timbo. It adds another layer to the mystery of what Athena knows, because this she couldn't have gotten from Boomer, since Boomer was a corpse at the time.

I think I forgot about it because Adama seems to have forgotten about it. At least, he never asked her about it on screen. Why not?

[timbo]

I watched it. You're totally right, Timbo. It adds another layer to the mystery of what Athena knows, because this she couldn't have gotten from Boomer, since Boomer was a corpse at the time.

I think I forgot about it because Adama seems to have forgotten about it. At least, he never asked her about it on screen. Why not?

Yes, its an interesting question isn´t it. Well, I have done the thing I am good at (noticing stuff), now I´ll leave it to you all to figure out what it means.