The Final Five explained

[sWozzie]

Think outside the box...

"Five pillars of the temple were fashioned after the five priests devoted to the one whose name cannot be spoken".

Proposition: The [Final5] are a creation of the [Five Priests], they may even BE the [Five Priests].

As far as we can tell, the [Final5] are born, grow and die just as the [humans] do. Therefore I would suggest that they reincarnate, this constrasts nicely with the [Significant7] idea of resurrecting and also goes a long way to explaining how for instance Colonel Tigh could have existed prior to the [pure machines] developing the technology to create him. It also explains why the [Final5] don't really know their true identity yet have this sense that they are more than they seem to be and of course the fact that the [Final5] are similiar to the [Significant7] yet fundamentally different.

Bear in mind that Galen Tyrol was drawn to and subsequently discovered the Temple of Five and also his Father was a Priest. This suggests a kind of influence passed down through the generations - exactly the kind of phenomenon that is attributed to the idea of reincarnation (having some kind of link to a previous life).

The [Significant7] have somehow managed to work out how to resurrect. Since they consistently demonstrate that they know more than the [humans] about Coloniel history, can it be that they have some (probably incomplete) knowledge of how the [Five Priests] were able to reincarnate? This would explain why they associate themselves with the [Final5] yet at the same time, revere them and view see them as superior. It is also why they are called the [Final5] since they are, from the point of view of the [Significant7], the only others that have this ability. The [Significant7] also appear to be montheistic, believing in one God which is probably the Lord of Kobol that the Five Priests worshipped.

The shows producer/writers have told us that the [Final5] are cylons which at first sight seems to imply that the above hypothesis cannot be true. However, this can be reconciled if you are willing to view the term "cylon" to be a label given to something that has the ability to transcend death.

This is a simple almost elegant solution to all the questions about the [Final5] without requiring any wild theories or speculation. It is an interesting idea that would fit well with the series if it turned out to be true and is a useful starting point for considering the nature of the cylons "plan" as well as all the other mysteries surrounding the series.

NOTE if you have a view on the identity of the last cylon, then there is already a thread setup for this http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=309

[Finch]

i agree and in the season 4 trailer it shows the scene where people believe he is a spiritual healer so i too think its him.

[sWozzie]

If you accept the new interpretation of the term "cylon" then it wouldn't be the show stopper that people assume it to be if Starbuck were revealed as a cylon, in fact it would be a good story. She needs redemption although not as much as Baltar and she wasn't aboard Galactica so couldn't be attracted toward the gym. It also explains her painting the supernova image as a kid. Remember she is an reincarnated Priest and the Priests saw the Ionian Nebula supernova. It can also and can go along way to explaining her destiny - saving the humans by leading them to safety. It would also hint at why Leoben is so interested in her, it's been said that he seems to be some kind of cylon oracle so maybe he knows something.

[Murph]

Every time I settle on a new member of the Final5, something changes my mind. I am trying to bear in mind that the Final4 were a complete and utter surprise to me, and that Kara's reappearance had some well-coordinated misinformation "leaked" by the production team (rumors of her removal from the credits), so I hope/expect the writers to do a similarly good job with the last of the 5.

I think President Roslin is a candidate - she has dreams that are shared and experienced and discussed with Athena and a Six, which requires some explanation. However, Athena and the Six are both surprised to be sharing this dream vision with Roslin.

Kara is still a candidate. She is definitely special, but I am not sure if that necessarily means she is a Cylon. And the Leoben that visited her leading up to her disappearance at one point said, "What makes you think I am Leoben?" Also unexplained and bearing follow-up. To me, Leoben doesn't seem to fit with the rest of the 7 somehow.

I am also wondering if, as the Final4 came together, if the fifth heard the music too, but was unable to join the 4. Maybe the fifth is not on Galactica or simply couldn't get to the gym for some reason. Could there be some poor soul that now knows they are a Cylon but has no idea what to do about it - something that hasn't been revealed to the audience yet?

So many questions to be answered in just one season. I cry that SciFi didn't renew for the full 2 seasons.

[Aset]

I think President Roslin is a candidate - she has dreams that are shared and experienced and discussed with Athena and a Six, which requires some explanation. However, Athena and the Six are both surprised to be sharing this dream vision with Roslin.

That is easily explained. They are sharing the dream with hera, Roslin was "cured of her cancer with Hera's blood. The real question in this scenario is...why is Six there?

[Murph]

Yeah I thought about Hera's blood as a factor there. It was a stretch to cure cancer with hybrid blood, but I can accept that Cylons have super-engineered antibodies and immune systems that temporarily cure cancer. However, I'm not really able to accept (yet) that Hera's blood somehow re-wired Roslin to communicate on the Cylon brainwave frequency. I would say that your explanation is the most likely one, but I'm being a stubborn skeptic at the moment, which allows me to think that Roslin is possibly the Fifth.

However, let's put aside the evaluation of cylon/human physiology in a fictional show in a setting where FTL jumps are perfectly normal, and ask: Why the hell is Six in Roslin's dreams? I'm sure the symbolism of Roslin and Athena searching for Hera only to have her scooped up by Six is obvious to someone, but it isn't to me... :-)

[shaggy_socal]

As a side note, I think that the Final Cylon is most likely Gaius Baltar, only for the following two reasons...

1. In the extended cut of Razor, apparently the Hybrid states "And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering." Gaius is the only character that really needs redemption (for betraying the human race) and besides, he has been through enough suffering already, why change things for Season 4 :)

There are three other characters that I can think of, off the top of my head that are seeking some sort of redemption for their sins.

Lee is still hung up on destroying the Olympic Carrier and the possibility of killing innocent civilians. Can you imagine what he'd be like if it was confirmed that there were actually innocent civilians aboard the ship when he destroyed it?
Kara's a walking sack of guilt/issues, but they probably all center around her relationship with her mother.
Kendra's was not able to get over killing the civilians.(If Starbuck can come back from the dead, so can Kendra.)

2. He is the only likely candidate that wasn't in a position to be drawn toward the gym at the end of Crossroads Pt II. If I remember correctly he was roaming the corridors in a state of confusion but then ran into some religious faction who presumably took him into hiding.

IMO, with the fifth "still in shadow" it wouldn't matter where he/she was at the time the other four gathered. The fifth would be completely oblivious.

He was of course the obvious choice early on in the first season, so obvious that people tend to find reasons to not believe it, coupled with numerous incidents throughout the series that lead to believe he can't be a cylon he has almost been written off as a possibility. The revelation that he is in fact a "cylon" will therefore produce the shock factor that the mystery demands.

What about Cmdr. Adama? Leobin told Roslyn that Adama is a Cylon in S1.

IMO, it would be too convenient for Baltar to be the fifth. They spent way too much time in S3 teasing :tos-cylon:"Baltar is a Cylon":tos-cylon: without a payoff one way or the other.

IMO, wWhen the fifth Cylon is revealed...
1. We won't see it coming.
2. It'll blow our frakking minds.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

IMO, with the fifth "still in shadow" it wouldn't matter where he/she was at the time the other four gathered. The fifth would be completely oblivious.

One possibility is that the fifth Cylon may very well be the "leader" of the Final Five, and is likely awaiting to see how the rest of his (or her) ilk react before showing up. For all he or she knows, they could end up going bugfrak and shoot each other, or some other damn thing.

[Aset]

However, I'm not really able to accept (yet) that Hera's blood somehow re-wired Roslin to communicate on the Cylon brainwave frequency.

Honestly, I don't think it has. It's made her able to lock in on Hera's brainwave projections. I truly think the most likely & most plausible is it's Hera's projection, she has drawn her mother into it & Roslin since Roslin shares her blood. The question still remains, how is Six being drawn in? We have nothing other than Head Six to give us any explanation for that. Head Six really only gave a bunch of mystical mumbo jumbo without any real substance. Why is she there? What is her role? Is she there to simply save Hera? What is she saving her from? The F5? Why? Are they going to destroy what the cylons, to that point, had banked their entire future on? If so, again, why?

[Murph]

Yeah, that makes more sense - that some cylon is somehow directing (consciously or not) their attention and somehow including Roslin in the dreams. It could be Hera, Six, or Athena I suppose.

All 3 of them are in fairly close physical proximity, so it makes sense there there could be some spillover or something, letting any nearby cylon "tune in" to the shared dream.

I was thinking more about this after I posted and also realized Baltar has no problem hosting a Six in his head and he never received a cylon/human blood transfusion. However, in Baltar's case, I would chalk it up to a repeating psychotic event if HeadSix hadn't given him helpful information. She fed him some info that helped point out how to destroy the Tylium mine on the moon base in season 1 or 2. To me, this indicates that she was placed in his head somehow, rather than a some manifestation created as a result Baltar's (deteriorating?) mental state.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

She fed him some info that helped point out how to destroy the Tylium mine on the moon base in season 1 or 2.

That's pretty sketchy evidence... It could be Baltar deduced this on his own subconsciously. We don't know either way.

[Murph]

True - either way Baltar really pulled a rabbit out of his hat. Head6 betrayed the mine to solidify Baltar's position in the fleet or Baltar blindly guessed and was 100% correct.

I'm just trying to decide which stretch I want to make...for some reason I think 6 telling him is more feasible than Baltar guessing and getting really lucky.

Or maybe Tylium mines are extremely unstable and it doesn't matter where you hit them. I think that's how the special effects team voted.

[Aset]

I don't think they are going to fully explain the Head Six thing with Baltar.

[ThPrime]

This is a simple almost elegant solution to all the questions about the [Final5] without requiring any wild theories or speculation. It is an interesting idea that would fit well with the series if it turned out to be true and is a useful starting point for considering the nature of the cylons "plan" as well as all the other mysteries surrounding the series.


"Not an end, but a beginning" = "all of this has happened before" = "Birth is not a beginning. Death is not an end" = reincarnation?

It is a simple solution and I'd also be relatively happy if the story proceeded much in this way. Great post!

RDM stated there is a "direct connection" between the apparently mortal final five and these no less than four thousand year old glowy beings. If this seeming paradox isn't pragmatically explained in season four, then does the identity of the last Cylon really matter?

Incarnations of the five could have lived during the previous cycle, that ended with the apocalypse that happened on ancient Kobol. If so, they are the continuity behind "all of this has happened before" as vessels of living memory and why some characters are supernaturally aware of events past, present and future.

Hearing Bob Dylan songs from Earth, as if remembered from childhood, could be nothing more than memories from a distant past life. There'd be no need for any further problematic connections to Earth. Bob Dylan just needs to be in the past. Considering the alternatives, I'll take Shirley MacLaine if I have to.

Lending credence to the R word are the Razor Story Meeting podcasts. Two writers present almost all of the Razor pitch, I assume one is Michael Taylor. Besides the recognizable voices of Ron and David there are others in the room. Listen closely to the "third" writer farther away from the microphone that occasionally interjects. Somewhere in the middle of the four hours he says "reincarnated" and it is not in the context of the Razor story.

The concept that only five individuals can reincarnate and that no one else in Battlestar shares this capacity (at least in a "natural" way) carries an shocking implication.

[james968]

I don't think they are going to fully explain the Head Six thing with Baltar.

My suspicion is that Head Baltar/Head Six where somehow implanted by the the Five. Until we discovered "Head Balatr" in Downloaded, we all assumed that Head 6 was put there by 6 and was part of her plan, but now.... it might be someone else's plan. (My bet the Final 5, unless RDM is going to suddenly reintroduce the beings of light (or maybe the 5 are a hybrid of the cylons and the beings of light)). I'm really hoping they explain it (if not in the show, in a podcast)


As for the Final Cylon being the big boss, I kinda doubt that. I kinda think the final cylon is in sleeper mode and going to go through what boomer went through (based on the Hybrid Narration).

[sWozzie]

There is a plausible explanation for the "head six".

Head six is not a cylon, she is extremely religious and prophetic. Like she says herself, she is an angel from God, sent to protect Baltar who is the guardian/protector of Hera. The reason everyone thinks she is a cylon is because she looks like Caprica-Six but she only appears that way to Baltar because she chose to appear that way because Baltar was in love with Caprica Six and its an important figure in his mind. In the same way, head Baltar appears to Caprica Six after she downloads after the Cylon attack (Downloaded) and Leoben appears to Starbuck in Maelstrom, right before she apparently dies. They are all angels - of some description.

The Significant7 are also completely unaware of these "angels", in Downloaded head Baltar stresses how important it is that the others don't know.

There is no link physical between the "virtual cylons" and the real ones even though they look the same.

At the beginning of "Collaborators" Baltar has a conversion with Adama, Tigh and Roslin in which "virtual six" appears and talks to them. Baltar realises that they can see and interact with "virtual six" and so thinks that he must be dreaming. Everyone is led to believe that Adama, Tigh and Roslin are forgiving Baltar for the mistakes he has made as president during the occupation of New Caprica but it makes more sense that Adama, Tigh and Roslin are also "angels" and are forgiving him for letting Hera out of his protection - they agree "it wasnt his fault", virtual six say that they are fools, they are being too lenient and he actively tried to kill them. The "Roslin angel" also says she has always wanted Baltar right before kissing him. This is why "virtual six" can see and talk to them - they are all manifestations of these "angels". Dont forget that on Kobal, Baltar had a dream about Adama drowning Hera and "virtual six" who appeared after he woke up was completely unaware of that dream :)

The Leoben that appears to Starbuck in Maelstrom seems to be a "virtual being" or "angel" but that situation is a slightly different so there are at least 5 "virtual beings" possibly 6 if you include "virtual Leoben" - can these 5 be the Final Five? Can the 6 be 6 of the Lords of the Kobol? These "angels" certainly seem to want to hide their existence from the real cylons. There is no doubt that they are allied with the humans and want Hera to survive.

Don't confuse their appearence with their real world counterparts.