Last Cylon

[Zikenol]

I want to throw this out there and get some feedback. I know they are pushing hard for Kara to seem like a cylon. The most obvious answer is often wrong in entertainment. I have a hunch it is actually Caine. I need to go back and revisit the first 2 seasons to see if I can find anything more evident. Got anything? Please reply

[aylinn]

Cain? But she died. I mean, I know that other Cylons don't know who the final 5 are but I don't think it's Cain.

[Zikenol]

Her body died. Unless I missed the part where they regain the same body. Not to sure. Just because she has not resurfaced means little

[aylinn]

But it wasn't said that the Final 5 can resurrect. I think they can't and that and the fact that there is only one model of the Final 5 makes them unique. The rest of the Cylons might not respect life because they can resurrect everytime they die and the Final 5 will try to survive at any cost as they won't get new body.

[JDS]

Well...if Kara ISN'T a Cylon, there's gonna be some pretty serious explaining to do.

However, it's just as likely to see Cain reappear if she's a Cylon as it was for Kara to reappear...and she never really seemed to have any serious familial ties or long history, she got fast-tracked to Admiral faster than anybody, if you remember the deleted scene.

I don't know, I still think Kara feels right for it.

[Zikenol]

It's never said the final 5 cannot ressurect. They have yet to die. And they are pushing Starbuck way to hard for her to be it. What was the last movie where the bad guy was unknown and ended up being the one they push to appear to be?

[aylinn]

Well. if Cain's alive and she's a Cylon (which I wouldn't mind) than I want Gina back ;] Then there could be a great confrontation...

[BlackTigh]

Who was Gina again??

I say it's that 1-day wonder pilot, the drug-dealing wench. What was her name? Cat?

[aylinn]

Gina was a Cylon tortured at Pegasus and yes, Kat was that pilot :). But I don't think she's a Cylon. Let her rest in peace... I think it's either Dualla or Dr Cottle or maybe Baltar. That would be something :]

[JDS]

Kat served her purpose, I don't really want to see her again.

[DBC562]

I really thought Kara was till Razor.

I get the feeling that the final five must of broke off from the other cyclons at some point to help champion humanity. Don't see if Kara can be one of the five if she is "going to led humanity to extinction". Whole point of Razor is to tell us she is bad.
If Kara isn't the last, maybe its Apollo.

[ouiouiwewe]

The Final 5 are also refered to as the "five lights of apocalypse" and the "five priests of the one whose name cannot be spoken". Sounds benevolent indeed.

[aylinn]

The Final 5 are also refered to as the "five lights of apocalypse" and the "five priests of the one whose name cannot be spoken". Sounds benevolent indeed.
It's like lord Voldemort ;).
Maybe revealing the Final 5 will bring some apocalypse and even the Cylons are afraid of that so much that they don't want to talk about it. They even shot down D'ana so she couldn't search for answers about them. To the rest of the Cylons she saw too much and was not suppose to share with the knowledge.

[Gaelic Cowboy]

A lot of people are posting they may be some kind of good Cylon I am not convinced they are benevolant how can we be sure they didnt do bad thigs to the fleet. Now they are activated they seem to want to be human but they may lose that fight especially Tigh and Tori.
Tigh becasue he may go on the beer or maybe because he will blame humanity for Ellens death. And Tori because she has that whole politics thing going which on tv is usually bad. I already posted how I believe its either Cottle Gaeta or Dualla in S4 section so I wont go into it. But there is an idea floating around that these three would not add to the story well I disagree because then all there good actions take on a differant light on rewatch. Don't believe me just watch any episode looking specifically for Tigh its a hoot he is smirking and laughing and pissing off Starbuck which now has a differant meaning than it did in the beginning. If she has some part in the whole find earth herald of the apocalypse craic then Tigh has an even bigger reason to hate her.

[neo80]

Hi all,

To start off with I'm new at this forum and my apologies if I do something wrong.

I haven’t seen Razor yet so I can’t take that into the equation of guessing who the fifth Cylon could be. From what I read on the forums here everyone seems to forget about an episode in season 1.
There was a person on episode 9 that mysteriously appeared. Mrs. Tigh! Everyone suspected her as being a Cylon so she had her blood tested. Baltar said the result was green where Six made a comment to Baltar saying if they only knew that everyone will have green result. So Six asked him what is Mrs. Tigh and Baltar's comment was that he will never tell.

If the 7 don’t know about the 5 then Six wouldn’t know just by looking at her or any of the other 7.
Also since at the finale of season 3 the 4 cylons didnt know who else was cylon and were shocked to see each other in that room Tigh wouldn’t know if his wife was a Cylong or not till he sees her again.

[JDS]

I don't know, I just don't see Ellen as EVER having been central enough to be the final Cylon. That would be like Doc Cottle being the last toast toaster..."Huh? WHO is the last one?"

Although I would have said the same about Tory until the season finale...

[neo80]

Well as you said. Tory Foster is one of the 5 and she didnt play such a big role. Ellena was pushing Tigh to be strong and get command of the ship after Adama was shot and was in the infirmary.

Who could it be? :D

The other question is, why did this nebula triger the switsch? Was it a wake up call since they are near earth?
Has all this happened and will happen again because of time travel possibly?

Many unaswered questiones which probably wont be answered even after the end of the season 4. :(

:tos-cylon:

[JDS]

Yeah, I think it's because they're getting closer to earth. Something about getting to the nebula set off a trigger.

And I don't think it has anything to do with time travel...just the cyclical nature of the universe.

[ouiouiwewe]

Remember, the 13th tribe did build the Temple of the Five. So, it is possible that they are actually aligned with the Cylon God and have planted devices that awaken the five priests at the Ionian Nebula.

[Briggart]

This is something that puzzles me.:confused:

The temple of the Five was supposed to be built by the 13th tribe to honour the five priests, which I assume to be human, but it clearly had a connection with the last five cylons.

Moreover, the 13th tribe built the temple sometimes around 4000 years before the current events, while the cylons have been around for what? a few centuries?
and humanoids cylons for less than 50 years.

There's too much confusion in the air...

Anyway, Ellen Tigh being the last cylon would be interesting. I'd love to see Saul's face when he discovers that :D

[aylinn]

I don't want Ellen to be a Cylon. She was irritating and mean and all and I don't know anybody who liked her. But I know what would Tigh said to his wife: "Frakking Cylon bastard" :D

[Aset]

Your arguments for Ellen are good ones. They would have been great for making her one of the 4....they're holding back the 5th one for the shock & awe factor. As much is it would be a surprise, I don't think Ellen has enough of a punch for it to be her. I'm rewatching season 1 currently to sift it over for clues!

[JDS]

I sort of liked Ellen.

[Sgt_Smiles]

"JDS party of one, JDS party of one your table is now ready!"

[JDS]

Yeah I know, I thought Ellen was kinda cool, I love Cally, I don't think it's Baltar's fault, I think Gaeta's straight...am I missing anything?

[Dymero]

I've seen in other places that people keep coming up with Lee. I'd like those people to explain how the child of at a human can be anything other than either a human or a human-cylon hybrid. And I don't want to hear the contrived "they were switched at birth" explanation. BSG is better than that.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

I've seen in other places that people keep coming up with Lee. I'd like those people to explain how the child of at a human can be anything other than either a human or a human-cylon hybrid. And I don't want to hear the contrived "they were switched at birth" explanation. BSG is better than that.

Do you really think so?

Because they tried that trick with Hera. Of course, it didn't work, but BSG has been known to use hackneyed, deux ex machina ways of story telling like any other SF series. Just look at "Epiphanies" (the stem cell/blood "cure"), or at "Sacrifice", or the Lee/Dee/Starbuck love triangle (which is really just a rinse-repeat of the Lee/Dee/Billy triangle in season 2, except worse) in season 3.

I could go on, but I rather not.

Of course, regardless of who is the "Final Cylon", they have a lot of explaining to do. I think they've really backed themselves in the corner on this one; it'd be interesting to see what rabbit they'll pull out of their arse to explain the Last Cylon.

[Dymero]

Another idea: Wouldn't it be the greatest of ironies if the final Cylon is the person who wrote the music the other four kept hearing? :p

Do you really think so?

Because they tried that trick with Hera. Of course, it didn't work, but BSG has been known to use hackneyed, deux ex machina ways of story telling like any other SF series. Just look at "Epiphanies" (the stem cell/blood "cure"), or at "Sacrifice", or the Lee/Dee/Starbuck love triangle (which is really just a rinse-repeat of the Lee/Dee/Billy triangle in season 2, except worse) in season 3.

Yea, I know, but something about him being one bothers me. The evidence/speculation thus far seems to put the final five as existing before the first Cylon war. Now, if Lee is a Cylon, it would mean he was made/born after the war, which goes against that idea that the FF were forerunners to the current crop. Don't know how they're going to explain that.

[JDS]

Don't even get me started on how demented the "Cylon/Human baby blood cures cancer" idea was. Words just cannot describe it. Not just from a storytelling perspective, but from a medical perspective.

"Human blood is a hexagon, and cylon blood is a pentagon, so the hybrid baby's blood must be half way between a hexagon and a pentagon, so it cures cancer."

[aylinn]

Lee is not a Cylon. He can't be. Just look at him, he's cool but sorry to say that, sometimes weak and whining in a "feel sorry for me" way. All Cylons are strong, I mean they may have some problems with psychic but not in such a way (well, maybe except Gina, but that's a different story).
What's more, when I think about the blood, if Hera's blood is different, than Cylon blood must be somehow different too. What's the problem to do the blood tests but not in Baltar's way but normal way to check the blood. Right now you can test up to 50 blood samples at the same time. It would turn out very fast who's Cylon or not. What's more, Baltar was making those tests and suddenly he stopped (he had reasons) but nor Adama or Roslin didn't say anything about it.

[DBC562]

Is it possible for a cylon skin job to drastically gain and loss weight? Wasn't Lee 60-80 pounds overweight in the begining of the 3rd season. Lee can't be a cylon.
For some reason, I am just getting the feeling the last cylon is not a main character, but a minor character.
The name escapes me, but what about the former terrorist/vice president guy. Not really a main character, but has been in enough of the storyline to make an impact.

[aylinn]

Tom Zarek? Hmmm... didn't think of him. He actually wants to destroy the gov but I don't think he's a Cylon. For me he just doesn't fit as a Cylon

[northtwilight]

Is it possible for a cylon skin job to drastically gain and loss weight? Wasn't Lee 60-80 pounds overweight in the begining of the 3rd season. Lee can't be a cylon.

No less than a Cylon could lose his hair and visibly age: cf Col Tigh.

For some reason, I am just getting the feeling the last cylon is not a main character, but a minor character.

For dramatic purposes it can't be a minor character.

The name escapes me, but what about the former terrorist/vice president guy. Not really a main character, but has been in enough of the storyline to make an impact.

Maybe; using Zarek would work from an 'echoing-SDS' perspective (Joe's mentioned this a few times, so I won't rehash it here).

[The Nubs]

Hey everyone, I'm new here but am happy that others love this show like I do.

As for the final Cylon. I have to admit that I am confused and for once I sort of hope that it isn't spoiled somewhere on the net so I can be surprised during the show.

I don't think it is Kara, that would be to easy. But I do think that she is somehow more than just a regular person. She has to be some sort of messanger.

Lee and Bill don't make sense either.

Roslin and Baltar are to extreme opposites for it to be one and not the other. If one of them was then they both should be.

It has to be a major character so who is left?

I like Zarek as a choice but I don't consider him a major character.

[JDS]

I don't see any reason why a Cylon couldn't get fat.

[Aset]

Oh the irony of it all if it DOES turn out to be Zarek.

What would be even more ironic is if it ends up being Dirk Benedict....but there's about a snowball's chance in hell of that occurring.

[DBC562]

So, if we assume that the last cylon is to be a main character..who is left to choose from?
Roslin, Kara, Adama, Apollo, Baltar..
Also 4 of the final 5 that have been revealed seem to be "strategically" placed, but are in support roles/postitions.
Tigh - 2nd in command of the fleet
Chief -head of maintenance/vipers
Tori -Assistant to the president
Anders - ground force commander(actually seems to be 2nd in command on the ground, basing this off an episode)

Who is left to choose from? I personally thought Tigh being reveled as the last cylon would of been perfect.

Could it be Balter? I wouldn't think so after his capture and torture aboard a base star. Pretty sure the seven could recognize an older model skin job under those circumstances.

Roslin? Wouldn't we of known she was a cylon with the whole cancer/blood work in the first season.

Apollo? Just can't buy the thought of it being Apollo. I'm assuming the last cylon is "the leader of the final five" or something important.

Adama? think he has a scar from his chest to his belly button ala Sharon. Think the Doc may has missed seeing something Cylon?

Kara? I guess, but she seems to be the pick if BSG was a 6 hour miniseries instead of 4-20 plus episode seasons.

Just my take. I'm sticking with a minor character. Tom or Gaeta (spelling?)

[JDS]

Baltar KNOWS he's not a Cylon. He got it revealed to him, or something like that.

I wish we'd stop talking about Lee Adama being a Cylon, it's just too stupid. If it happens, I really don't want to think that we might have encouraged it.

William Adama is even MORE not a Cylon. If William Adama were a Cylon, that would leave no more slots for Lee Adama, so you'd have the human child of a Cylon. I don't even want to think of how excruciating the explanation for THAT ONE would be.

[Orion]

Hi, I'm saying sorry first, because I'm completely new here and also I only browsed through the postings of this thread briefly.

Now, as to the topic: I don't think any of the *dead* characters can be the last of the final five, at least according to the inherent logic of the series. How so?

1) None of the seven "regular" skinjobs know any of the final five. However, basestars and their resurrection facilities (possibly added by means of a resurrection ship) are manned also by skinjobs; they "nurse" the resurrected Cylons. If the last of the final five were resurrected there, he or she would be known immediately to the rest of the Cylons. Seems not very probable.

2) You might argue that there could be another facility special for the final five's resurrection, but I don't believe such a thing exists. The only "irregular" Cylon facility we've seen so far was the Guardian Basestar in "Razor", which was more than enough confusing for the inherent logic of the series (did Cylons know about the Guardian Basestar? If so, why was it not protected by a fleet? Was the First Hybrid abandoned alongside his old-fashioned chrome toasters, etc., etc.). If there are to be more such facilities around, where do they come from? Who mans them? It seems unlikely.

The interesting remaining question really is about Kara and her "death" and "resurrection". What are the "pro"s for Kara being the last Cylon?

pro 1: She was known to the First Hybrid. If the Skinjobs were entirely "children" of the First Hybrid, thus worshipping It as their God, then the First Hybrid would know all of them, and know their potential.

pro 2: She has had visions that are directing her towards a future "fate" and is susceptible for supernatural sensations, as are the other four (ref: they heard the music, which was supernatural).

pro 3: She "died" and "came back", which regular humans cannot do.

What are the "con"s?

con 1: Cylons have a remarkable knowledge about humans, so the First Hybrid mentioning her may just be a ruse. Also, it has not been revealed where the final five are coming from, when they were introduced to their "human" lives... If Tigh's memories are true, then he existed before the First Hybrid. Meaning, the Final Five are possibly not true Cylons after all. Maybe they are leftovers from the last temporal cycle - I don't know. But I give benefit to the doubt.

con 2: Now, who's not had visions on that frakking bucket? Adama had one in the lab (Razor flashbacks), Roslin has had plenty... is anybody who has visions a Cylon? Then we are in trouble, as there are more than enough options for more and more Cylons... does't work.

con 3: Did she die? We - i.e., Apollo - saw her Viper explode. Was she in there? Did the Viper explode in the first place? If yes, where the frak did she get another one for her return? And if she died, where was she resurrected (see my objections above).

As somebody said in this thread, the obvious does not always work in entertainment. So, I keep waiting, but I don't cast my vote in for Kara.

Cheers!

[Zod]

Hi, this is my first time so please be gentle!! I have been rewatching the whole BSG series and have a few ideas as to who the final Cylon actually is.To be honest, i can't see it being anybody but Baltar. i know this is probably quite a boring speculation, and has probably been discussed to death previously in these pages, but everything seems to fit nicely with my theory.
The virtual 6 is a program written to guide the 'human' Baltar after the planned Cylon destruction of the 12 colonies, to activate once the destruction has taken place. Baltar's intellectual gifts predominantly in sciences, and his celebrity, place him in the right places at the right times with the right people.The Cylons would have 'known ' this, especially leading upto the destruction of the colonies, despite probably not 'remembering' in the truest sense of the word because of previous programming ( by the final 5??). The events leading to the destruction of the Colonies placed Baltar as the chief programmer for a networked defence, surely this cannot be a coincidence?
As to why Baltar didnt hear any music once the fleet approached the Ionian nebula can easily be explained by the fact that he is already 'partially' activated. Baltar can also 'project' himself like a Cylon can and has an untraceable history on Aerelon,. no one really knows anything about Baltar's upbringing save for what may be a cover story.
to me it seems that everybody is looking at anyone but Baltar being the final Cylon just because it seems to obvious that it is him!

[The Nubs]

Sorry that I don't remember all the names or episodes, but in the one at the temple where the now boxed cyclon saw the final five didn't she stop at one and say something like sorry. It makes me think that there is some sort of relation between the two of them or they have some sort of history in the first couple of season.

[Rukia]

She apologized to one of them I think for seeing the vision of the Final Five that she wasn't supposed to.

I believe Baltar was meant to see the vision that Di'anna saw.

I still don't believe that Baltar is the last Cylon or that its Kara for that matter. I'm still thinking on who it could be.

[The Nubs]

What if she was saying sorry for another reason. If they are just visions of the final five then maybe she felt the need to say she was sorry for something she did to the real version? Just an idea?

[Zikenol]

The final cylon is the Galactica itself.

[JDS]

Too bad Galactica doesn't talk like Lexx.

[Aset]

Ya know....the more I think about it, the more I really like Zarek being the final cylon. A long standing dissenter, protester & some say he's a terrorist. Embraced by the new establishment, although reluctantly. Gets himself a VP nod & elected to president. He has the trust of the leadership of the humans just as the other 4 do. It would also pack quite a punch on a couple levels simply because of who Zarek is as well as Richard Hatch's connection to the franchise itself. I also think Richard would have a field day with that one!

[JDS]

Yeah, he certainly does fit the Final Five mold of somebody with power, but not a direct leader (anymore).

[uzurpator]

Remo Lampkin

Just because I love the character :>

[james968]

I don't see any reason why a Cylon couldn't get fat.

I seem to remember the Sharon Cylon putting on a lot of weight :)

[JDS]

You mean when she got pregnant?

[Pizentios]

It was proven in Razor that cylons can have their own agenda's with the old models breaking off and protecting their own hybrid. So with that being known whats stopping the final 5 form breaking off from the other 7 and doing their own thing?? That would explain why the other 7 have no knowledge of them and it wouldn't prevent the final 5 from working with the humans. It would kind of be like the final 5 seeing the path of destruction the other 7 were heading down and wanting nothing to do with it and just up and leaving and setting up shop with the humans and truly try and live up to the prophecy of trying to have a hybrid but doing it in collaboration with the humans and not against against them.....just a thought!

[frakk`up]

the old greek would admire your wits...

[Korporate]

Hey im new here, but I just watched the entire season in about a month and have some thoughts im dying to share.

I think the last cylon could be Zerek. It does make some sense plus he seems to be absent from the last few episodes of the season which would keep him from hearing the sounds to the viewing audience, but also make him an afterthought so we would not guess him as easily.

however from a writers standpoint and a plot device it would seem to me that they would want it to be a even bigger surprise, but not only that it would have to play a major role in all the protagonists characters lives.

Who are the main protagonists
William Adama
Lee Adama
and Starbuck

all others are secondary and or now a cylon.

So what is the string that connects those three.

Zack Adama.

The son, brother, and once husband to be if I remember correctly. Plus nobody would ever see it coming since he was never seen on camera, but played a major role in the series characters.


Furthermore. I havent researched it but does each cylon represent a different constelations. All all of the known skin jobs from a different colony.

If so I seem to remember reading that there is a secret 13th constellation in the zodiac that alot of ancient people recognized. Typically that sign meant destruction. If Kara is a cylon, perhaps she represents that constellation which would give some validity to what the hybrid said in Razor.

It also might fit in since 13 seems to be very secretive, as in Earth was the 13th colony but nobody knows where it is or why they choose to go a separate way.

Also if Col. Tigh is a cylon he had to have been created a long time ago. Probably by humans since he was in the first cylon war and been around for a long time. It that is the case maybe that lends some insight into the final fives role. Col Tigh just seems a bit out of place compared to all the others due to his age and extensive history

[OrionFour]

Zack Adama.

The son, brother, and once husband to be if I remember correctly. Plus nobody would ever see it coming since he was never seen on camera, but played a major role in the series characters.

They've thrown bigger curve balls at us before. But I still think it's Lee.

Furthermore. I havent researched it but does each cylon represent a different constelations. All all of the known skin jobs from a different colony.

Not as far as we know. In fact we still don't know why the Cylons picked 12 as the number of models they would build. As a result, there are just tons of fan theories out there, take your pick.

If so I seem to remember reading that there is a secret 13th constellation in the zodiac that alot of ancient people recognized. Typically that sign meant destruction. If Kara is a cylon, perhaps she represents that constellation which would give some validity to what the hybrid said in Razor.

It also might fit in since 13 seems to be very secretive, as in Earth was the 13th colony but nobody knows where it is or why they choose to go a separate way.

If you find some words on that out there I would love to read it!

[Aset]

Not as far as we know. In fact we still don't know why the Cylons picked 12 as the number of models they would build. As a result, there are just tons of fan theories out there, take your pick.

All things considered I think it's pretty fair to extrapolate the zodiac theory. All of the colonies with the exception of Earth are named after the zodiac constellations. We know from Kobol's Last Gleaming part 2 the orginal names & that they are definitely based on the constellations. ATo then take that a step further, we know for sure that there are 12 humanoid cylon models, since most of what we know about these colonies revolves around the zodiac's it's doesn't take much to figure that these 12 are *loosely* based on those same signs which represent 12 distinct human personality types.

[Murph]

That is the first I've heard someone propose that the 12 cylon archetypes match the Zodiac relationships. I really like the theory, and never realized that the 12 cylons match something so obvious.

I know almost nothing about astrology, but wikipedia has a summary of 12 traits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_sign#The_twelve_signs). I'm now struggling to decide which models match which zodiac signs, if they line up at all.

I am dying for the final reveal because, I just can't find a theory that I can get behind 100%, and I'm starting to get a headache from all the speculation.

Fifth of Final Five aside, I am starting to think this first hybrid has some sort of connection to Leoben. He's always had a strange connection with Starbuck and has always repeated that time is a loop and events repeat, similarly to the first hybrid. Leoben has always seemed to have his own agenda (or perspective), separate from the other 7 models we know. For some reason, he has always seemed to be a little bit different, more mysterious. IMO...

[Bossman]

Well, since Kara is re-appearing in season 4 after her supposed death, it's obvious that everyone is going to think she's a Cylon when she really isn't.

The thought that Gaius Baltar was one of The Final Five has crossed my mind, but personally, I now think that Laura Roslin may be one of The Final Five instead. It all has to do with Roslin, Sharon and Number Six sharing the same dream of being at the the Kobol Opera House chasing Hera. It's also at the Kobol Opera House where D'Anna Biers sees visions of The Final Five.

[Finch]

maybe the 2 kids get sent on earth, and the human and cylon fleets destroy eachother, or return to to the 12 colonies because then it can happen again just like that cylon in razor said "it has happened before, and it will happen again. I personally think the 2 kids go to earth, and earth is set in 2008 time, and then the human/cylon fleet return to the colonies, and in 100 or so years another war breaks out and then they do the same dance.

[Korporate]

I find it hard to believe that I might have been the first to suggest the zodiac theory. However if I was to try and match them up I would probably go with Gemini first as Boomer/Athena/ Sharan due to her duel nature that of being a cylon but siding with the humans because if I remember correctly Gemini was the twin zodiac.

Any other ideas that might match?

[Orion]

What if she was saying sorry for another reason. If they are just visions of the final five then maybe she felt the need to say she was sorry for something she did to the real version? Just an idea?

Well there is still the option that is around with fans that she saw Tigh. But then, doesn't she say later that what she saw was "wonderful" or something of the sort. You know, the sight of Tigh is not exactly what would frakk me up into the sky.

So it is possible that she saw somebody else... what would be the most fascinating person to see?

or maybe she just did stupid things because it was in the stupid script and they boxed her because they didn't know how the frak get out of that horrid storyline.

[Aset]

There's quite an extensive speculation thread about the whole Zodiac theory over on TWoP, Korp. You might find it pretty fascinating reading.

[frakk`up]

where?

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

televisionwithoutpity.com

[OrionFour]

All things considered I think it's pretty fair to extrapolate the zodiac theory. All of the colonies with the exception of Earth are named after the zodiac constellations. We know from Kobol's Last Gleaming part 2 the orginal names & that they are definitely based on the constellations. ATo then take that a step further, we know for sure that there are 12 humanoid cylon models, since most of what we know about these colonies revolves around the zodiac's it's doesn't take much to figure that these 12 are *loosely* based on those same signs which represent 12 distinct human personality types.

I agree, I fond of the Zodiac theory myself.

[Orion]

But there are also the 12 Olympic Gods, and they don't correspond to ther Zodiac. However, in support of the Zodiac theory, we may say that if the 12 Cylon models represented the possible divine ancestry of mankind, they are in dissonance with the original Gods: Whereas there are 6 male and 6 female gods, up to now we have 7 female models and 4 male models.

It may be worthwhile to look into the question which Zodiac signs represent rather male and which female characteristics. this might help to find out whether the last Cylon might be a man or a woman.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

The Zodiac theory is interesting, but I don't fully buy into it yet. Although it would be interesting to break down which Cylon corresponds to which Zodiac. :-)

[Korporate]

That other website mentioned above does have some really in depth discussion of the Zodiac.

I was thinking though. Maybe the cylons are based on the Zodiac and some of the human characters are based on the Gods.

For instance. Adama has been referred to as Zeus which makes sense. His son is Apollo whom I believe was one of Zeus sons and often disagreed with his father.

Now if that senario is correct then I believe that Aries might have been another of Zeus sons. Also Aries is a zodiac sign and the God of war.

The hybrid said that the last cylon would bring war or something like that and Aries was the God of War
.

If that was the case then wouldnt it stand that Adamas dead son Zack would fit the profile given.

Im not sure if the facts are totally straight there just something off the top of my head.

[OrionFour]

But there are also the 12 Olympic Gods, and they don't correspond to ther Zodiac. However, in support of the Zodiac theory, we may say that if the 12 Cylon models represented the possible divine ancestry of mankind, they are in dissonance with the original Gods: Whereas there are 6 male and 6 female gods, up to now we have 7 female models and 4 male models.

I think you meant the opposite, that is, 7 male models and 4 female models, but in any case, that largely depends on the source. The most popular form is 6 and 6, however the truth of the matter is that it largely depended on what city you were in or what time period you were there. We tend to take a much more literal view of the 12 Olympians than even the Ancient Greeks did. Whatever you do, don't go to Wikipedia and look up the Twelve Olympians, it's like a bunch of monkeys throwing crap at each other. The Twelve Olympians listed in the article change hands almost every day. As I'm writing this, someone took Demeter off the list and added Hades. They all think they know who the 12 were, but what they don't seem to understand is that there was a lot of variation on the list throughout the Ancient realm. They want to ascribe the constancy of modern religion to ancient religion, and it's an incorrect assumption.

For all intensive purposes the Olympians that were definitely among the 12 are: Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Hermes, Hephaestus, Aphrodite, Athena, Apollo and Artemis.

The Olympians that are on some lists and not others are: Hades, Ares, Hestia, Hebe, Helios, Heracles, Demeter, Dionysus, and Persephone.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it's not always 6 and 6, sometimes it's 7 and 5, or even 8 and 4, in either direction.

[Korporate]

Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Hermes, Hephaestus, Aphrodite, Athena, Apollo and Artemis.

If these guys were used to base off the human characters I would match them up as follows

Zeus: Adama.....duh

Hera: Roslin, she is basically the closest thing to Adamas wife and has alot of power

Poseidon: Im kinda torn here between the doctor and Helo. But I think it would be Helo because he seems to always be just underneath the main guys. Perhaps Baltar excluding him as a cylon of course

Hermes : Gaida, he is in charge of the functions particullarily the FTL jumps

Hephaestus: sounds alot like the chief, but he is a cylon. Perhaps the Doctor of Helo again

Aphrodite: Probably Dualla, or Cally

Athena: Although a Cylon she defines herself as a human, maybe its Sharon, perhaps Dualla or cally again

Apollo: take a guess

Artemis: Very much StarBuck excluding her as a cylon of course.

Maybe thats how the writers identifed the characters at first and the cylon/human might have been the lesser gods (Tigh/Hades) etc...

[Aset]

The main reason I think it's more based on the zodiac than the 12 Olympians mainly because of Kobol. The zodiac constellations were all represented as the pointers to Earth.

[jongos]

I want to throw this out there and get some feedback. I know they are pushing hard for Kara to seem like a cylon. The most obvious answer is often wrong in entertainment. I have a hunch it is actually Caine. I need to go back and revisit the first 2 seasons to see if I can find anything more evident. Got anything? Please reply

I agree with you look at how the series unfolded two things happened repeatedly. Secondary characters became primary characters and tertiary characters became secondary characters. Examples:

Hotdog, Racetrack and Kat all started out at tertiary character, (3rd rate, just above extras). Kat, eventually became a secndary, supporting cast member right around mid 3rd season when she dies. Hotdog remains a tertiary character. The distinction is that tertiary characters we never learn much backstory because to have a character with backstory who takes center stage more than a few episodes means that that character needs to be paid attention to.

Notice that Kat's backstory was only fleshed out for the same episode that she died. That's because in TV screen time is money so either you are part of the bigger story, or you're a part of a story meant to be expendable to 'extended' the overall episode count. Kat's story only existed to be a 'filler' episode.

So here's my theory. It's gotta be an existing secondary character because the tertiary characters we barely know or care anything about:

Since Kara is played up so much to be the fifth...she's more than likely not. She's the opposite. In Razor the original hybrid says not to follow her because she will lead the fleet to doom. Also, no one in the cast outside of Kendra ever receives that message so that means it was meant to be a clue for the viewer and not any of the characters. She'll be revealed to be something new. I'm not sure what, but it's not a Cylon yet it's something more than human.

The Fifth is also not Baltar or Rosilin, the next two obvious choices. They've alluded to the fact that two of them might be Cylons for the past TWO seasons, it's a decoy. While it would be a shock, I doubt its either of the Adama's because Cylon's don't duplicate existing humans. Both Bill and Lee have too much history with other characters on the show for it all to be fabricated.

That said here are my choices:

Helena Caine - BSG wasted two of it's twenty-two episodes this season to tell backsotry?! I think not. The series has to have some significance beyond the revelation about Starbuck at the end. Otherwise they could have just condensed it into a normal one hour show and saved an entire episode. Chances are someone from this episode is a Cylon otherwise it serves no real purpose.

Kendra Shaw - see above statement.

Anastasia Dualla or Felix Gaeta - they've both been here from the beginning. Under our noses the whole time just like the Final Five. They both have high level positions in the military. Furthermore, Gaeta tried to murder Baltar who I'm pretty sure isn't a Cylon, especially since they teased us so much with that this season.

or

Cally - maybe the reason the Cylons never noticed the Tyrol baby like they noticed the Agathon child is because the Tyrol child is the offspring of Cylon on Cylon action?

I'm gonna go out on the limb and say it's someone I've listed by name here. If it turns out to be an Adama or Rosilin this will instantly become the worse television show I've ever watched and I will personally sh*t in a box, wrap it like an x-mas present, and mail it to Mr. Ron Moore myself.

[Korporate]

I agree its something thats been there already, nobody knew and not a major character.

I also wonder why they would go into such detail with Kendra Shaw and then forget about her the rest of the series, gotta be something more there.

Same with Caine, but I think she just became a really good character that could be used to flesh out somebody else ie Kendra Shaw.

I dont think its Bill or Lee Adama, but I still stand firm that I think its Zack Adama, Admiral Adamas dead son.


As far as Starbuck goes.

I was watching some TiVoed episodes tonight and noticed that the 3 priests/the final five cylons worship the "One that Cannot be Named". Which would imply that there is something more to reveal than the final five. There is still "The One that Cannot be Named"

My money is on Starbuck.

[Aset]

OK, I've come to the conclusion it is one of 3. I still like the idea of Tom Zarek being a cylon. Having rewatched Lay Down Your Burdens 1 & 2 again, I'm thinking it might be either Dualla or Gaeta, leaning more toward Dualla.

Think about her, she's in charge of all communications, she has the absolute trust of Adama. She was involved with Billy she then goes on to marry Lee. Although the quadrangle of her, Apollo, Starbuck and Anders was honetly, painfully forced. However, her placement has some interesting dynamics.

Gaeta has some real possibility as wel, but frankly I just don't see it being him.

[james968]

The Guardian Hybrid Narration (posted in the S4 spoilers section), makes some comments that strengthens my belief it is Geata, and kinda contradicts my thinking it was Dee.

Though it was kinda suspicious how she was able to see the power failure and power restoration was fleet wide and simultaneous. (All 40 or 50 ships within a few seconds of communication)

[Seanathin]

I agree that its going to be a secondary charator, and my money is on Getta. It fits with the narration, it works with his position, and his relation to Baltar (the mans a cylon magnet) and it would just be frakking cool.

It being Baltar would just be disapointing becuase he went to so much troble to see if he was one, but then maybe #3's "i'm sorry" was to him. Sill meh to that. I know RDM stated that nither Bill nor Roslen were Cylons. I also don't by that its Lee becuase he is the only charator where a person on the ship has known them their entire life. Hell Bill might have been there for his birth.

As for Cain and Shaw. I remember reading somewhere that the only advancing story point of Razor was to give us that narration. I think the resion it was two hours was to throw the audeance a bone, because sci-fi boned us with this year long gap. As cool as Cain and Shaw would be as cylons they are both dead, and we a bit to secondary for my taste. Also didn't RDM say he know who the 5th was at the end of the first season which would nigate Shaw, though not Cain, being as she is also a TOS charator.

[Aset]

According to the narration track on the DVD, Sci Fi approached RDM wanting him to produce a 2 hour special movie associated with the show. He took it to the writers to see what they could come up with. They figured season 3 ended on a pretty significant cliff hanger & they did not think they could resolve it the way they would like to in a 2 hour movie especially with it being seperate from the 4th season. So they decided to go back & revisit something they had not fully explored previously. They decided on the Pegasus because they felt there was a lot more story to tell with it. The only bearing it has on 4th season was the hybrid's speech, deliberately done to foreshadow things to come & to give us all a different perspective about Starbuck's significance.

[Korporate]

I agree that its going to be a secondary charator, and my money is on Getta. It fits with the narration, it works with his position, and his relation to Baltar (the mans a cylon magnet) and it would just be frakking cool.

It being Baltar would just be disapointing becuase he went to so much troble to see if he was one, but then maybe #3's "i'm sorry" was to him. Sill meh to that. I know RDM stated that nither Bill nor Roslen were Cylons. I also don't by that its Lee becuase he is the only charator where a person on the ship has known them their entire life. Hell Bill might have been there for his birth.

As for Cain and Shaw. I remember reading somewhere that the only advancing story point of Razor was to give us that narration. I think the resion it was two hours was to throw the audeance a bone, because sci-fi boned us with this year long gap. As cool as Cain and Shaw would be as cylons they are both dead, and we a bit to secondary for my taste. Also didn't RDM say he know who the 5th was at the end of the first season which would nigate Shaw, though not Cain, being as she is also a TOS charator.

I dont think its Baltar. In the episode with her was interrogated by Adama I think it was "Put down all your worries" when asked if he was a cylon while drugged he said no. I would think that deep down subconsciencely he would know.


About Apollo and Adama seeing him born. The episode that Kat died Adama talked about wanted a girl. he also said that his wife would make him leave the room during each of his sons births. Which again makes me wonder about Zack Adama, the son that died.

[sWozzie]

"Cylon" is a term used to describe something that can transcend death.

The Significant7 are cylons since they resurrect, the Final5 are cylons because they reincarnate - this is how they are similiar and yet fundamentally different.

The Final5 are the reincarnation of the 5 priests that worshipped the one whose name cannot be spoken. This one is the God that the cylons believe in, this is why they are so interested in the Final5 and why they don't know their identity because they keep reincarnating therefore their identity changes throughout the generations, this is how Colonel Tigh can be a cylon even before the cylons developed the technology to create him.

They didn't create the Final5 but they model themselves on the Final5 and therefore they view themselves as the same, both following the same one God. When the machines created the Significant7, they modelled them on the Final5. Remember they know more about Coloniel hisory than the humans do, they know about the Priests and the fact they can trancend death by reincarnating and so built the Significant7 with a similiar ability, the ability to resurrect. Resurrecting is a cheap way to reincarnate, the cylons want to reincarnate which is why they are so desperate to join with the humans, this is the significance of Hera and hints at the Plan that the cylons have.

This is what the whole series is about, rebirth.

Once you realise the meaning of the term cylon, then all your reasons for why it can't be certain characters become invalid and it opens up all sorts of other interesting possibilities. For this reason I suggest the last cylon is either Starbuck or Baltar, probably Starbuck. Why did she doodle a supernova as a kid? Because she is the reincarnation of the Priest that saw a similiar supernova 4000 years ago - the one in the Ionian Nebula. This is why Leoben, the cylon oracle is so interested in her because he suspects she is a Priest. Why did Tyrol get drawn toward the Temple of Five, because he is the reincarnation of a Priest for which the temple was built. Hey his father was even a Priest!

I could write reams of text justifying this hypothesis but there is no point, it may be speculation but it is most compelling and I challenge anyone to come up with any facts that can argue against it. Besides, if it isn't true then I would suggest to the writers that they follow this idea in Season 4 because I think it would be a brilliant ending to the show :)

http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?p=3700#post3700

[Aset]

The best argument against Starbuck is....they want you to think it's her, therefore it's not.

[sWozzie]

The best argument against Starbuck is....they want you to think it's her, therefore it's not.

They haven't given us any reasons for thinking it's Starbuck - except for the fact she appears to have resurrected at the end of Season 3, which turns out not to be true anyway but this has nothing to do with why I think it's Starbuck.

[Martyr of the Cause]

I've been re-watching all the DVD released footage of BSG up to the end of Season 2 in anticipation for Season 3 to hit DVD and Season 4 to hit TV. Re-watching the show with knowledge of what is to come, I have some observations about the Final Five that have been revealed, and who the 5th one is.

The Final Five are there to help humanity, to guide them to their new future. They don't realize they're Cylons (until the end of Season 3) because they couldn't have guided humanity as they have if they knew what they were. Each felt compelled to do what they thought was right.

Here are some brief examples of what I mean:

Tigh: A soldier against the Cylons, Adama's confidant and guide, New Caprica resistance fighter. (Yeah, I'm not sure how the Martial Law thing fits in except to show humanity what NOT to do.)

Tyrol: Finding the Temple on the Algae Planet, building the Blackbird to give humanity hope.

Anders: Resistance fighter (two times over).

Foster: Tried to save Roslin's political career through her cold analytics.


And it was when I saw "Lay Down Your Burdens"
once again and watched who helped Tori try to rig the election that I realized who the last Cylon had to be: Dualla.

Tigh, Foster, and Dualla tried to rig the election. Dualla has been a confidant for Adama before, and at a really crucial time as well (when the fleet was separated). She, like Foster and the others, as a way of coming out of nowhere to be crucial at the right time.

And like many of the Final Five, she has history of why she shouldn't be a Cylon. Tigh has a war history, but couldn't those records be forged, and his memory be false? Dualla has her memory of her father, but it's not something anyone other than her can really confirm. Losing most of society makes it hard for anyone to really prove things through record keeping.

I don't think it can be Gaeta because his
loyalty has been to Baltar. Roslin, the Adamas, and Baltar all seem to me to be the core of what is humanity; I can't see them being Cylons without undermining much of the discussion of what being human in the series is about. An as many said above, Starbuck seems so obvious to be the Final Cylon that it almost can't be here. Dualla fits my admittedly loose mold of what the Final Five Cylons are about. (Admittedly, I'm not sure who else might fit that mold, but this is a wild theory, after all.)



I may be way off here, but I see others have similar thoughts. I just wanted to put them down somewhere so I can feel really good about myself if I'm right.

(EDIT: Oh, and I forgot. I found this one today. "Anastasia" apparently is Greek for Resurrection.)

[Orion]

Tigh has a war history, but couldn't those records be forged, and his memory be false?

Certainly, however we have seen a young Tigh in Adama's flashback of their first meeting. So either the Final Five are capable of aging (a quality we have not seen in other Cylons, but then again, maybe they don't age but their bodies die rather quickly, similar to Blade Runner's replicants), which also means they have been around much longer, or Tigh and the others were exchanged for Cylons rather recently, shortly before the war began.

IF they were around already in the first Cylon war, then surprisingly the cylons knew about their existence even before the significant seven Cylons were bred. because, why would they stop at creating seven when they think there should be twelve? And where did they get that knowledge?

Now, I am not one for analysing how all of this works out, but I think this won't be explained in the show, leaving an air of mystery around the Final Five. Plus, allowing the writers a consistency gap as wide as space between here and Kobol.

[Lestat]

A thing must be considered in our guessing , the fifth should be a turn point a climax in the story , so what kind of climax might generate to have Ellen Tigh as a Cylon?
Maybe a new sober life of his hubby but that's all , she might be a majior revelation if Col Tigh stayed human with all his hatred toward the cylons and having to face his hatred and his love for her , but not now , he is a cylon he can fight the other cylons but cannot hate them anymore he also must understand both Boomer and Athena in their previous loyalty to the colonies , he also could fear that something like that of Boomer might happen to him to have an inactive program waiting to be triggered.
Ellen Tigh can't be the fifth cylon it has no meaning to the story so far.

[Spencer06Einstein]

Could it be lucy cain? Or at least someone in her image, as the cylons appeared to capture and not kill her, and there was no body.

[Lestat]

Could be anyone that way, Lucy never appeared or so , plus she died 40 years before that would be a stretched soution in my view besides Moore said there are clues , now how could they be if we barely saw Lucy in Razor DVD or the webisodes Cain?

[Slowclap]

I'm new to the forum, but fanatical about the BSG. One qualm about the final cylon being Kara: isn't she exposed to Leoben (and the others?) when they have the virus? Then again, perhaps she is the final one, and perhaps she did die. The Kara who returns might not be the Kara who left.

I lean towards Cottle, Zarek, Romo Lampkin, or a character who has died, such as Billy. Or Bulldog. Number 3 would apologize to Bulldog. Or perhaps the final cyclon is Adama, or modelled upon the young Adama when he encountered the hybrid back in the day.

I've been listening to the podcasts to refresh my memory of season three, but I can't find it spelled clearly why the cylons don't know each other. Did they spawn at different times? At different places?