Final 5

[Dantela]

I am sorry if this has already been posted. I am new to this forum so please forgive me if you have heard all of this before.

I have some questions and thoughts that maybe someone here to help answer for me. Yes, I know, like Star Trek, this is only a TV show but I love to think about it so please forgive me if I seem to think about it too much.

6 told Baltar that there were 12 (humanoid) models. We then later learn that only 7 of them are active in Cylon's society an none of the 7 speak of the other 5 or know what the other 5 look like.

All the Cylons at the end of the war, 40 years ago, looked like the original series Cylons. Between the end of the war and the holocaust the chrome Cylons developed the 12 humanoid versions. Doing this made themselves obsolete. Apparently the 7 models had multiple copies but the other 5 may not have. Because the 7 do not remember what he 5 looked maybe there was something done to the 7 to make them forget. Of course if something could be done to make them forget what the 5 models looked like then why not simply remove all memory of the 5 especially if knowing more about the 5 can get you and your model boxed?

Maybe they need to remember the 5 so they do not do the same mistakes they see that the 5 had done (whatever this mistake maybe).
It was said that the 7 models keep the centurions from being sentient (I am not sure if this comes from a line in the show or not). 6 said that the Cylons from 40 years ago still had their uses so I wonder, if the humanoids keep the centurions from reaching sentience did they do something to early model Cylon too?

Was there a war or something else that over threw the original Cylons and put the humanoids in control?

Are the humanoid Cylons just new shells for the original models?
Are there more copies of the 5?

If not, are they even Cylons (in the strictest sense)?

Could the 5 be human/Cylon descendants?

I am not sure if the whole descendants idea would work after all Tigh is supposed to be about 71. To be a descendants of a Cylon you would have to be 40 years old or younger, unless, and assuming is as old as he says he is, Tigh is descendant of a Cylon that experimented with humanity before up-rise.

How is it, that all of the lost 5 ended up with the Galactica fleet (I can understand how one or two of the 5 ended up on the Galactica but all 5 - yes I understand that Samuel Anders was brought to the Galactica after the holocaust)?

Thank you for letting me ramble. ;)

[OrionFour]

Haha, you just managed to ask just about every question regarding the Cylons that hasn't been answered yet. See that's what I love so much about this show - it forces you to ask questions. I've asked myself all the same questions, and then theories build upon theories upon theories. The only real answer seems to be.... you're going to have to wait until season 4.

[Gaelic Cowboy]

All the Cylons at the end of the war, 40 years ago, looked like the original series Cylons. Between the end of the war and the holocaust the chrome Cylons developed the 12 humanoid versions. Doing this made themselves obsolete. Apparently the 7 models had multiple copies but the other 5 may not have. Because the 7 do not remember what he 5 looked maybe there was something done to the 7 to make them forget. Of course if something could be done to make them forget what the 5 models looked like then why not simply remove all memory of the 5 especially if knowing more about the 5 can get you and your model boxed?

They may know exactly who they are remember they lie to humans or mix truth with lies. The subject may be taboo or a cylon heresy we can only speculate. Removing all memory may repeat the mistake as we know from the show thay can and do make mistakes.



Maybe they need to remember the 5 so they do not do the same mistakes they see that the 5 had done (whatever this mistake maybe).
It was said that the 7 models keep the centurions from being sentient (I am not sure if this comes from a line in the show or not). 6 said that the Cylons from 40 years ago still had their uses so I wonder, if the humanoids keep the centurions from reaching sentience did they do something to early model Cylon too?

Yes they do keep the under control the obey any order given by a human model and they can't tell the human models apart we saw this in season 3


Was there a war or something else that over threw the original Cylons and put the humanoids in control?

We can't say yet roll on season 4



Are the humanoid Cylons just new shells for the original models?
Are there more copies of the 5?

There is no reason for the 5 not to have copies unless the 7 wiped the out



If not, are they even Cylons (in the strictest sense)?

They could be the most human making them in a sense less cylon irronically



Could the 5 be human/Cylon descendants?

I don't think so it seem to be a continuing thing the twelve symbol



I am not sure if the whole descendants idea would work after all Tigh is supposed to be about 71. To be a descendants of a Cylon you would have to be 40 years old or younger, unless, and assuming is as old as he says he is, Tigh is descendant of a Cylon that experimented with humanity before up-rise.

Quite possible he is the timeline fits but I think he is a full cylon



How is it, that all of the lost 5 ended up with the Galactica fleet (I can understand how one or two of the 5 ended up on the Galactica but all 5 - yes I understand that Samuel Anders was brought to the Galactica after the holocaust)?

we know the 5 can meet in the opera house maybe they told each other where to go to safety

[Aset]

What exactly do we know of Tigh's background? Theoretically speaking, could his memories of "childhood" & growing up be manuafctured? Are teh Cylon's capable of that kind of advanced technology, especially around the time of the first cylon war?

Out of all of the, quite honestly, Tigh is the one that baffles me the most.

[Gaelic Cowboy]

What exactly do we know of Tigh's background? Theoretically speaking, could his memories of "childhood" & growing up be manuafctured? Are teh Cylon's capable of that kind of advanced technology, especially around the time of the first cylon war?

Out of all of the, quite honestly, Tigh is the one that baffles me the most.

We know nothing of his background before he met Adama during the fight in the bar years after the war where they became friends.

Yes the cylons did have that tech there is a reurection tank shown in the razor flashbacks from the first cylon war.

Adama uses his pull and helps him get back in the fleet when he has got command of a battlestar.
(was this a mission to befriend Adama and find out what he knew about anything)

He can be seen smirking often in the background of a lot of scenes or displaying a look of bafflement when something amazing happens.

He gives a creepy speech about being a demon in the garden of eden.

He has no great love for the president yet fixed an election why.

Everyone assumed his drinking is a personal problem but possibly his conflicted cylon mind cant handle the pressure of such a longterm sleeper agent operation. Or possibly its a good cover for erractic behaviour of any kind "Oh dont mind him he's on the sauce again cos the wife is off with some fella"

On several occasions his gutsy calls and intuition save the fleet
(cylon foreknowledge anyone)

[Aset]

He has no great love for the president yet fixed an election why.

Honestly, I didn't find that far-fetched at all. No, he is not a Roslin fan, but anyone with an ounce of reason & in close association with him, would know that Baltar ias President would be an unmitigated disaster.

[Gaelic Cowboy]

Honestly, I didn't find that far-fetched at all. No, he is not a Roslin fan, but anyone with an ounce of reason & in close association with him, would know that Baltar ias President would be an unmitigated disaster.

Thats true but Tigh hates Baltar way to early for my liking back as far as season one I think. It all only makes sense if he is working to a plan possibly the one stated in the shows opening credits. They go for Roslin someone who believes in and misuses religon for her own needs interestingly cylons believe her religon is a complete lie.
On a differant note anyone noticed how Tori keeps messing things up. She loses the vote so she tries to rig it she loses Hera she picks Adama out of the bowl as a judge in a private meeting she orders the prosecutor to go for treason a charge the lawyer says she cannot prove.
The result of all this is a divided fleet and possibly a wedge between Roslin and Adama and Baltar is free.

[Sgt_Smiles]

because of what happened at the end of Razor with the hybrid, Kara Thrace is #5, /thread.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Thats true but Tigh hates Baltar way to early for my liking back as far as season one I think. It all only makes sense if he is working to a plan possibly the one stated in the shows opening credits. They go for Roslin someone who believes in and misuses religon for her own needs interestingly cylons believe her religon is a complete lie.
On a differant note anyone noticed how Tori keeps messing things up. She loses the vote so she tries to rig it she loses Hera she picks Adama out of the bowl as a judge in a private meeting she orders the prosecutor to go for treason a charge the lawyer says she cannot prove.
The result of all this is a divided fleet and possibly a wedge between Roslin and Adama and Baltar is free.

Tigh's hatred of Baltar seems to stem from Baltar's own arrogance, and the fact that Tigh can see right through people like Baltar who use "weaselly technobabble".

But, yeah, Tori does frak up quite a bit, but then again, Tigh and Tyrol did their share of frakups as well.

Although she didn't frak up all that severely as one may think either. I don't think the election fiasco was solely her fault. It was a printing error that ruined everything in that regard.

Also, she was the one who helped Roslin do the evacuation drills on New Caprica, and those ran (mostly) without a hitch. So Hera got killed in the liberation effort... that's not Tori's fault either.

And you can't really blame Tori for Cassidy's incompetence in not presenting the prosecution's case. That's Roslin's fault too, because she knew of Cassidy's attack plan, but was so blinded by her hatred of Baltar that she didn't think rationally. Cassidy was at least smart enough not to go after Baltar based on Roslin's word that she saw Baltar on Caprica with Caprica-Six prior to the attack.

[JDS]

I have to agree with that...when they say "All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again", I think Tigh hating Baltar is one of those things. It's an archetypal personality clash.

But what's that about Hera getting killed in the Liberation effort...do you mean Maya? Last I looked, Hera was still alive...

[Gaelic Cowboy]

Well I was under the impression that Hera was lost because Maya and the two guys who were supposed to protest her got killed. Then D'Anna Biers think she could be number 3 found Hera so she did not set off the nuke to prevent the colonials from leaving. Course it could just be a simple error and not some grand design of Tori but it does bug me.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Right, it was Tory. Bit of a slip there.

[Pizentios]

It was proven in Razor that cylons can have their own agenda's with the old models breaking off and protecting their own hybrid. So with that being known whats stopping the final 5 form breaking off from the other 7 and doing their own thing?? That would explain why the other 7 have no knowledge of them and it wouldn't prevent the final 5 from working with the humans. It would kind of be like the final 5 seeing the path of destruction the other 7 were heading down and wanting nothing to do with it and just up and leaving and setting up shop with the humans and truly try and live up to the prophecy of trying to have a hybrid but doing it in collaboration with the humans and not against against them.....just a thought!

[Bootis]

I am not sure if the whole descendants idea would work after all Tigh is supposed to be about 71. To be a descendants of a Cylon you would have to be 40 years old or younger, unless, and assuming is as old as he says he is, Tigh is descendant of a Cylon that experimented with humanity before up-rise.

The 7 Cylons have that old man in the Hat, he who posed as a priest, he looks to be atleast 60. That man also mentions that it dosent matter if it takes 5 days or 5,000 years to find earth, they are machines.
Therefor I think its safe to say that they dont age, at all. So do they remain the age they where when captured as real humans?

Which is strange concidering that Thrace not only remember herself as younger but other characters can testimony to this. Tigh aswell, but we dont know how he will look as Cylonreborn. Dont know if he will have one or two eyes even..
Maybe they age to a certain age?
I sure hope they go deeper in this system in season four and explains it, if they can >.<


How is it, that all of the lost 5 ended up with the Galactica fleet (I can understand how one or two of the 5 ended up on the Galactica but all 5 - yes I understand that Samuel Anders was brought to the Galactica after the holocaust)?

This show is strongly affected by faith, everything is faith. So id say it was faith :)


Edit:
I forgot my own question:

What I find most interesting is when D'anna sees one of the five and says "Oh, im so sorry! I didnt know!" Was that Tigh and was she refering to his torture in the prison? Or Sam and the hunt for him at Caprica? I cannot recall D'anna having any personal contact with any of those five, atleast not that we got to see, did we?
At this point I really thought Baltar was a Cylon afterall, but apperently not..

[Korporate]

I was wondering that and was under the impression that she was probably speaking to Tigh due to the eye and torture and what not

[james968]

What exactly do we know of Tigh's background? Theoretically speaking, could his memories of "childhood" & growing up be manuafctured? Are teh Cylon's capable of that kind of advanced technology, especially around the time of the first cylon war?

Out of all of the, quite honestly, Tigh is the one that baffles me the most.

From the Wiki (which is based on the Shows and the Deleted Scenes from the Episodes). Tigh was on the Brenik (sp?) when it was boarded and he was one of the few survivors. Later he was on another unnamed ship that had the same fate.

It seems to me that 2 times for the same thing would be the perfect time for the cylons to somehow replace a guy named Saul TIgh with either a clone or a cylon who looks reasonably like him.

------
I just realized (when reading another comment) in downloaded "DeAnna" does meet Anders and is pretty ready to kill him. (Actually Caprica 6 kills her, thus saving Anders*).

Although she was never seen in a scene with Tigh, that doesn't mean she didn't know him on site and played a role in ordering him tortured. (Brother Cavil could have been the Dirty Hands guy and she might have signed the papers).

*Interestingly, of the SS, she is the most religious (at the time) and the FF seem to be most associated with the cylon god. (Temple of 5 worshipped one god, etc).