Rapture (Rewatch)

[bazzyb]

Each week, a thread and poll is opened on two consecutive episodes. Naturally the thread is open to veteran fans and newcomers alike. However newcomers to BSG may wish to keep in mind that the majority of contributors to these threads have seen all four seasons.

So this poll and thread on Rapture is now open for votes and comments. You may also wish to consider this episode for the season three awards, see http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=1595 (http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=1595)

Information on individual episodes can be viewed on the wiki.

[timbo]

Which one is this?

[genji2000]

FFS.

This is the one in which D'Anna sees the Final Five in the temple then dies of a nosebleed.

Prior to this episode comes The Passage first, where they have to get through the radiation storm to find the algae planet because they've run out of food, then The Eye of Juniper in which they miraculously find food growing on a bush they hadn't noticed.

[bazzyb]

Which one is this?

Information on individual episodes can be viewed on the wiki. ..

[MHall]

In the "Previously on Battlestar Galactica" for Rapture:

Hybrid: The Final Five revealed o*nly to those who enter the Temple. Only to the chosen o*ne. The chosen o*ne.

Then in the episode:

Baltar: This is what we've been waiting for. You are the anointed one. Chosen by God to look on the faces of the Final Five Cylons. It's already written. You will succeed.
Three: That's what I'm afraid of. To know the face of God is to know madness. The hybrid has looked into the space between life and death, and she's seen things that we cannot conceive of. But she's been driven mad as a result.
Baltar: Have faith in God. Put your life in His hands. He will guide you to your destiny.
Three: I'm grateful to you. For everything.
Head Six: Her destiny will part company from yours, Gaius. She's not the chosen one, you are.
Baltar: Yes, I know. (To Three): I know.

[Neakal]

In the "Previously on Battlestar Galactica" for Rapture:

Hybrid: The Final Five revealed o*nly to those who enter the Temple. Only to the chosen o*ne. The chosen o*ne.

Then in the episode:

Baltar: This is what we've been waiting for. You are the anointed one. Chosen by God to look on the faces of the Final Five Cylons. It's already written. You will succeed.
Three: That's what I'm afraid of. To know the face of God is to know madness. The hybrid has looked into the space between life and death, and she's seen things that we cannot conceive of. But she's been driven mad as a result.
Baltar: Have faith in God. Put your life in His hands. He will guide you to your destiny.
Three: I'm grateful to you. For everything.
Head Six: Her destiny will part company from yours, Gaius. She's not the chosen one, you are.
Baltar: Yes, I know. (To Three): I know.



Mind that when the Hybrid was saying "the chosen one", she stared at Baltar, not D'Anna whose eyes were closed at the time to notice that small detail. Baltar deliberately put D'Anna to the position of the "chosen one" because of...fear of what would happen?

This is one of my favourite episodes and the rewatches didn't really change much opinion in that regard. I could still do without the love-square but at least it was incorporated into the story in a productive way. Also liked that for this once, Starbuck couldn't save herself. Its good to break the routine of superhuman self-sufficiency.

Something about the fighting scene always bothered me. Maybe it is the camera angle or something else but to me it always struck me as the ambush against the Cylon Centurions happened in a waist-high canyon and the colonials were huddled and hiding in knee high shrubs next to the wait-high canyon. Maybe thats me but it always made me think "Why on Earth is that Centurion fighting on defensive? Take two steps and youll be right next to them. Hell, why did they even come via that ditch when they could come through high ground if they altered their path by a meter or two." As I said, maybe the angle or something distorted the proportions but I could never buy that fighting scene due to that.

Rest of the episode, even though I like it, I can't think much to say. The D'Anna Opera House scene is awesome as most Opera House scenes tend to be. One thing I pay attention is music. In "Kobol's Last Gleaming" and "Scattered" we had orchestral classical music, in this one we have a tune that starts as the Kobol leitmotiff but grows mysterious and omnious while using elements of Sharon's leitmotiff. By Crossroads, both tunes are accompanied and eventually overpowered by a discordant, creepy version of "Watchtower". I know I made that point before but the background music and its feel was often the main sounce of my opinions regarding the Final Five.

On a side note, I never saw a discussion questioning whether the Final Five D'Anna apologised to (Presumably the Final Cylon since Lucy Lawless seemed to imply that was the case) and she had hear nosebleed after that Final Five held her hand had any significance. When I first watched the episode, I saw that as a way of the Final Five saying "You aren't supposed to be here" and than zapping her. On a related note, I still can't think what D'Anna meant when she said "You were right". The only thing is Baltar telling her that he could be a Cylon in a previous episode.

The last portion of the episode always seemed a bit...extra to me. By that I mean the scenes shown after they jumped away from the Algae Planet. Of course they are important for wrapping up but to me the episode always "ended" when the planet is destroyed by the nova and Galactica jumps away.

Can't think of anything else to say other than I like this episode.

[Vesihiisi]

On a related note, I still can't think what D'Anna meant when she said "You were right". The only thing is Baltar telling her that he could be a Cylon in a previous episode.

That is an interesting statement, especially as one of D'Anna's early sketches does look a bit like Baltar.

Other options for being right include:
- Pointing out the platform to stand on. (Probably not worth the comment)
- Convincing the cylons not to blow Galactica out of space upon arrival at the algae planet. (Somewhat credible, though perhaps not fully convincing.)
- Engaging the hybrid and correctly interpreting its message. (No news, really, as D'Anna already seemed pretty convinced.)
- Supporting D'Anna's belief that she is the chosen one. (Could be.)

Perhaps also possible, but not very likely:
- Something that Baltar said under torture (no idea what exactly, perhaps something theological)
- Still referring to Baltar's suggestions that cylons should pack it up and leave New Caprica.

[genji2000]

I think we may have discussed this before. I think the consensus was that the Writers' rather obvious intention was for us to believe that Baltar was right about being the Final Cylon, as in "am I a Cylon?"

I preferred to think that she believes his assertion that she is the Chosen One, the anointed one. It could mean that Jupiter (Zeus) is king of the hill, or that Hera is the one, or just that putting one's faith in god is the way.

[MHall]

D'anna believes Baltar's lie that she is the Chosen One, the one chosen to see the faces of the Final Five. "You were right." But she's not the Chosen One. Baltar is.

[genji2000]

D'anna believes Baltar's lie that she is the Chosen One, the one chosen to see the faces of the Final Five. "You were right." But she's not the Chosen One. Baltar is.

Well, it's open to interpretation, but that's mine.

[Vesihiisi]

What strikes me as a really interesting detail is that this episode and the previous one make a very precise statement about ancient history: Some 4,000 years ago (Tyrols radiocarbon dating, Gaeta's astronomical dating), the 13th tribe made their original settlement (stated by D'Anna) on the algae planet and built the Temple of Five, with the Eye of Jupiter pointing the way to Earth (several references).

The date and Tyrol's claim that it lines up with the exodus of the 13th tribe conflict other statements:
- Citing Cottle's report on the cylon virus, Adama states that the 13th tribe left some 3,000 years ago.
- Elosha and Athena have systematically included the 13th tribe in the exodus of 2,000 years ago.

So, apparently the 13th tribe are real busy bees with a whole lot of frequent flier miles, having left Kobol on three different occasions, if one buys equally into all the statements. It makes one wonder whether there really is a consistent story to the 13th tribe.

Another interesting detail is in what Cavil says (I can't remember in which episode of the two): He refers to Earth as "the great miracle", and he wants to "save" it, although he is in no big hurry, as he would be ambivalent between 5 days and 5,000 years to do so. I wonder what that could mean.

[Shadow Rider]

I think that the 13th tribe left Kobol around 4000 years ago, then 2000 years later sent a convoy back and either brought or met some chick named Pythia who wrote down all of the happenings of the going to Earth blah blah blah.

[The Dirt]

Or... the 13th tribe left at sub-light speed and it took them that long to get where they were going.

[MHall]

Because of the similarities between the Revelations planet and Kobol, I think the Thirteenth Tribe is a mirror of the Twelve Tribes (but offset by 2,000 years in their history), and that the Thirteenth Tribe would call the rag-tag fleet "the Thirteenth Tribe." So, I think there are two Thirteenth Tribes.

2,000 years ago, I think Kobol was nuked, and a few decades later a rag-tag fleet arrived there and the president proclaimed it to be "Earth." That rag-tag fleet is what we would call the Thirteenth Tribe, and I think they had just been booted out of the 12 Colonies by the Cylons of the time.

4,000 years ago, it would be like now, with a rag-tag fleet arriving at the Revelations planet and the president proclaiming, "Earth." Around then or soon after, the refugees from the Revelations planet arrived in the 12 Colonies, probably after a layover on the Algae Planet, where they built a temple.

This theory would predict that another temple was recently built or will be soon built, so that 4,000 years from now it will have been built 4,000 years ago. I'm guessing it is in the Ionian System, where we saw two planets.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6496/bsg3x20mysteryplanet21jw5.jpg

[Vesihiisi]

One readily apparent speculative possibility is, that the direction of the 13th tribe's original odyssey may have been misrecorded (or tweaked to match the accepted orthodoxy of Kobol as the original home world).

Perhaps the 13th tribe traveled (possibly at sub-light speed) from Earth first to the algae planet and then via the lionhead nebula to Kobol, and arrived in time (roughly 3,000 years ago?) to introduce the original star-patterned flag themes and to participate (who knows in what capacity) in the great blaze on Kobol. (Did they found Kobol, or were the other twelve tribes already there?) In the exodus from Kobol they may then have parted company with the 12 tribes and headed back towards Earth (or wherever).

Edit:
Strike the sub-light speed possibility. Galactica has already covered at least 13,000 light years in it quest for Earth, and traveling that distance conventionally does not make any sense.

[genji2000]

Wiki questions:

Who does Three recognize as being one of the Final Five?
Why are the identities of the Final Five kept a secret? Why would the other seven Cylon models not know the identities of the Final Five, and why would the Number One model want to prevent the others from learning about them? Do some or all of the Cylons not want to know and why would this be so?
Does a mechanism exist to revive boxed Cylons, given that their memories and thoughts still exist in cold storage?
What is the connection between Starbuck and the Eye of Jupiter?
What is Starbuck's destiny?
What will President Roslin and Admiral Adama do with Baltar now that he is back in their custody?
Will Roslin and Adama's relationship sour now that Adama knows of Roslin's involvement with hiding Hera?
What will happen to Caprica-Six now that she is on Galactica?
Do the Cylons realize the significance between the mandala and the nova?
With the temple destroyed, what is the significance of Baltar being the "chosen one" rather than Number Three?
What does Three mean when she tells Baltar that he was right? Is she saying that he is a Cylon or is she referring to something else that he said to her earlier? Or does she still think she is speaking to one of the Final Five?
Why was the temple dedicated to the five priests who served a separate unnamed god?
Are the five priests the Final Five?
Is the empty drape for a god, the chosen one or somebody else?

[viper_nugget]

baltar is a frakking bastard. always hurting someone else to preserve himself. well the sob got caught in the end. yeah!!!! time for trials and execution!!!(i wish anyways)