This has all happened before...from a different POV...

[TAZ-99]

Hello all - I was just reading the recently resurrected thread titled 'Some Speculation' in which the poster brought up time travel and the cyclical nature of the storyline to date.

The following theory was posted by me over on The Zone some time ago - I have edited it some - it' one idea I have about the possible interpretation of what is becoming the most annoying Mantra of any tv show...

***
THIS HAS ALL HAPPENED BEFORE - but not like a temporal loop - more like an evolutionary loop.

Working Backward...

<50k of humankind are refugees on journey (MINISERIES)

HOLOCAUST

#Billion humans on the downside of the height of civilization having survived 40 yrs since the colonies unified to fend off the cylons in the first war but they sacrificed tech for a number of years for fear of a reprisal.

First Cylon War - AI becomes sentient - self aware - free will - doesn't want to be slaves and fight the inter colony wars for the humans anymore.

Rebellion - war began 50 some year ago (from the Mini) and lasted 12 years I believe. 12???http://www.battlestarzone.com/images/smilies/eek.gif (When the cylon left for their own space after the Armistice - they became the 13th Tribe in this cycle)

Height of civilization. AI. Learning Machines built to fight wars for the colonies so they could fornicate and prey and multiply like bunnies. (Cylons treated like slaves)

Humans inhabit 12 worlds each contributing to the whole but independent and always fighting among themselves. Skirmishes and illegal trade and drug traffic. How they got to those worlds is mythical in nature.

****

% of humankind are refugees on journey (to the 12 Colonies)

HOLOCAUST


Humans on the downside of the height of civilization live on KOBOL with the GODS. There are 12 tribes. There was a 13th that left some years - 2000 - prior.

After a civil war.

Height of civilization. Humans living with their Gods, paradise, outside influence or jealous leadership causes uprising - I suspect the 13th tribe were actually slaves or a servant class and the jealous god was in fact the liberator of the slaves...

Humans inhabit a Planet (Kobol) How they got there is mythical in nature.

****

ASSUMING THAT LIFE BEGAN ON KOBOL - AND SINCE LDS IN NATURE...

THE JOURNEY TO KOBOL WOULD BE THE CAST FROM EDEN PART

THE HOLOCAUST WOULD BE THE EATING THE APPLE PART

THE DOWNSIDE WOULD BE THE CURIOSITY PART GOING WHERE YOU DONT BELONG

THE FIRST WAR WOULD BE EVE STANDING UP TO ADAM or defying Gods rules?

THE HIEGHT WOULD BE THE NAKED PARADISE PART

***
In each case there are 2 great wars. After the first war a part of society breaks off on its own. After the 2nd that 1st society of rebels returns to wipe out the first.

THE 13TH TRIBE FROM KOBOL THAT WENT TO EARTH LEFT BECAUSE THEY WERE SLAVES

THEN THEY RETURNED TO KOBOL 2000 YEARS LATER AND KICKED BUTT -

THE 12 TRIBES HAD TO LEAVE FOR THE COLONIES BECAUSE THEY WERE RUNNING FOR THEIR LIVES FROM THE 13TH WHO LIKELY PUT THAT MAP THERE AT THAT TIME WHICH LEADS ME TO THINK THE 13TH TRIBE IS GOING TO BE FAR MORE ADVANCED.

***

Ultimately each generation or loop cycle ends with humans on a journey. But in each loop the number of humans left is greater and their knowledge of technology and the universe is also greater even if they are still only children compared to the forces that play them.

And it seems in each situation their is a rebellion with the rebels returning to destroy their masters later on.

***

Now that I have seen season 4 - The humans settle New Caprica, this time the cylons enslave them - they rise up and rebel - there is a battle - each side goes their separate ways...but wait...

The 12 cylon models or at least the 7 had created a sort of civilization of their own with each model being a different tribe and the raiders and centurions being the slaves.

There was a rebellion and a battle. Their tribes divided and a few tribes joined up with the colonials being the current caravan of the heavens.

However I dont think the division of the cylons is the big rebellion to come...the rebellion will come from the current centurions - Cavil warned Natalie she had no idea what she had done by giving them back their free will.

Everyone thinks the big battle is going to be between the good cylons/humans vs the cavils/dorals/simons.

I think its more likely that the centurions will rebel again...only this time the skin jobs join forces with humanity against them...all the skin jobs. When the dust settles...its likely that the only ones to live will be Baltar, Caprica and Hera like the vision...unless the room is a fallout shelter.

***

If I were correct about this - then this is the future - the far future.

The idea that 4 or 6 thousand years ago to them is our past ... What if the 13th tribe from Kobol landed here in our present or future and caused the devastation.

What if the greco roman influence came from a true set of Gods...if their are Gods or a God in this story line - no reason to believe they were sticking to one civilization. It would have been the Gods or God who told them of Earth in the first place...aka the Gallleon came from somewhere.

My only reason for sticking it way in the future is that I don't beleive the network will allow them to step on anyones beliefs by daring suggest Baltar is Joseph or Christ. Or anything to suggest we came from outer space - then again if life began on Kobol - they had to get here somehow.

It makes more sense that a higher power planted life on both worlds - With similar Gods to lead us. I seriously doubt they ever say what they the writers intended.

***

Starting to babble now and get into more than one area. My basic point to all this is that the concept of cyclical time doesn't have to be so literal. And as Lee said...it doesn't have to happen again. The old adage stands - those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

When you create life or enslave it - in any form and then mistreat or misuse your power over that life be it a robot, your kid or the guy you stole from his home land to pick your berries - you are creating the cycle that results in a rebellion and choosing sides - brother vs brother - sharon vs sharon - etc.

Does this make sense only to me or did I wander off too far?

:D

[genji2000]

Does this make sense only to me or did I wander off too far?

Possibly both. That was an edit? We tend to at least try to write in sentences and paragraphs over here, rather than just photocopying our stream of consciousness notepads.

Anyway, to continue my ongoing charm offensive... I'm not keen on the LDS parts. I don't think there's any direct Mormon influence on the Re-imagined Series, though it goes without saying there is a TOS influence on the RDM version. I'm not sure how the Graeco-Roman influence will play out, and I'm probably wrong about this, but when I first watched the show (before joining the forum and being corrupted by other people's theories) I didn't believe there was any direct correlation between the colonial gods and our Greek or Roman gods; their Zeus was not our Zeus or Jupiter, their Artemis nothing to do with our Diana. It was just a writer's convenience to express to the audience that this was an ancient polytheistic religion without having to write a Silmarillionesque backstory to explain who Franthakular the god of jam is, or Sprintorith the goddess of contraception. I still think bringing Greek gods to Kobol, or importing Roman gods from there to Earth (notice how I spelled 'there' there?) is too much of a stretch for this show. I suppose they might have it all worked out in backstory but I doubt it will make it to the screen.

The Thirteenth Tribe from Kobol that went to Earth left because they were slaves.

I think we can all agree on that, now. You may yet be surprised at the nature of their thraldom, but there is clearly a parallel between them and the more recent group of slaves who left to found their own homeworld.

Then they returned to Kobol two thousand years later and kicked butt.

Well, not all of them, but then we don't know that the entire Cylon population returned to the Colonies to nuke butt. I haven't considered this scenario, and we don't know for sure the nature of The Blaze, so I think it's possible. I like the idea. I just can't square it with the impression I get from the Miniseries that the Thirteenth Tribe left Kobol to find Earth and were never heard of again. You might ask "how did the colonials know it was called Earth if the Thirteenth Tribe never returned to tell them?" but it's possible (given RDM's statement that Season Four will address the notion that life began on Earth, or that life here began out there) that 'Earth' always existed in the Kobollian psyche from the very beginning. It's equally possible that there was some kind of emissary sent from Earth back to Kobol after the settling ("you should come, it's great. We got beaches and barbecues, and jam").

You should put some tags in - "cycle of time", "thirteenth tribe", "centurions", "slaves", that kind of thing.

[TAZ-99]

Possibly both. That was an edit? We tend to at least try to write in sentences and paragraphs over here, rather than just photocopying our stream of consciousness notepads.


You should put some tags in - "cycle of time", "thirteenth tribe", "centurions", "slaves", that kind of thing.


The edit involved removing references to individuals on the other forum as well as adding the ending with regard to the current state of the series...

And generally lists are not in paragraph form - it was intended to be an outline - sorry I didn't make little bullets for you. Not to mention the eyestrain when the lines are all crammed up.

As for tags - go for it - you are the mod here right?

Thank you for your critique - I will try to jam my words more tightly together for your viewing pleasure in the future.:p

[genji2000]

The edit involved removing references to individuals on the other forum as well as adding the ending with regard to the current state of the series...

And generally lists are not in paragraph form - it was intended to be an outline - sorry I didn't make little bullets for you. Not to mention the eyestrain when the lines are all crammed up.

As for tags - go for it - you are the mod here right?

Thank you for your critique - I will try to jam my words more tightly together for your viewing pleasure in the future.:p

I'm sorry you take it that way. I did address aspects of your theory, too.

I don't believe mods can add tags. In fact, now I think about it, I'm not sure users can edit tags in either (they have to be added when the thread is first posted I think), so scrap that idea. It was intended as if to say "neat post, make sure it shows up in people's searches" but obviously didn't come off like that.

[Prolescum]

Tag added by nugget.

[genji2000]

Tag added by nugget.

Smartarse. I didn't notice that. Explains why I couldn't add them by editing the post.

[Aurora]

You might ask "how did the colonials know it was called Earth if the Thirteenth Tribe never returned to tell them?"

I thought it was stated in some episode that the beings of Kobol came from Earth, and that when they all left Kobol, the 13th tribe was returning there? The Temple of Athena pretty much proves that they'd been there before, right?

[genji2000]

I thought it was stated in some episode that the beings of Kobol came from Earth, and that when they all left Kobol, the 13th tribe was returning there?

Not to my knowledge. Can you remember which episode, or what was going on in it? I thought the Colonials believed that Kobol was their absolute homeworld, and from RDM's comments I presumed they would be disabused of that notion in Season Four. The Thirteenth Tribe didn't return there.

The Temple of Athena pretty much proves that they'd been there before, right?

The Tomb of Athena does have similarities with the Temple of Five on the algae planet (I wonder if that planet will turn out to be more important than it seemed at the time - a settlement of the Thirteenth Tribe, perhaps?), which might indicate a Thirteenth Tribe influence, or it might be that the technology of the Kobollians was taken by the Thirteenth Tribe to the algae planet.

[timbo]

Taz, I just thought I posted a long post about your idea, but looks like Ive lost it. Anyway, in a nutshell, I think your sequence of events is probably right, but it doesnt quite make a cycle. If you tag on the idea that there are twelve models and then Tigh and the others are the five who are left from the 13th colony, and then five from this story survive and evolve to intervene next time round, it has a continuity and symmetry that few ideas have had here before on the forum.

[genji2000]

Taz, I just thought I posted a long post about your idea, but looks like Ive lost it. Anyway, in a nutshell, I think your sequence of events is probably right, but it doesnt quite make a cycle. If you tag on the idea that there are twelve models and then Tigh and the others are the five who are left from the 13th colony, and then five from this story survive and evolve to intervene next time round, it has a continuity and symmetry that few ideas have had here before on the forum.

i.e. you haven't read Taz's theory but if she changes it to yours then it'll be all good, right?

[The Dirt]

Speaking of relic buildings, I found it interesting that the building they were supposed to find on Earth is called the Temple of Aurora. Not only because Aurora is associated with Starbuck, but because she is the goddess of the dawn. In other words, this is where the sun rises and the daily cycle begins.

[genji2000]

Speaking of relic buildings, I found it interesting that the building they were supposed to find on Earth is called the Temple of Aurora. Not only because Aurora is associated with Starbuck, but because she is the goddess of the dawn. In other words, this is where the sun rises and the daily cycle begins.

Ahhh... like daybreak, you mean. Can you hear me?

[The Dirt]

Exactly, my dear Watson! This, alone, could point to the breaking of the cycle.

[genji2000]

It's enthralling... if the next episode represents the faintest glimpse of light on the horizon and the whole of 4.5 is the dawn. Art and that.

[The Dirt]

I hope they didn't shoot the whole rest of the season through night vision goggles.

[genji2000]

the whole rest of the season

Do you people really say "a hundred one" and "out the window"? Do you know about conjunctions and prepositions?

[The Dirt]

No, yes, and sometimes. Our concept of grammar is very different. You say potato, and we say mutually assured destruction.

Usually, it's "a hundreden one" and "yer gunna hafta git out da winduh." How do you say "the whole rest of the season?"

[genji2000]

No, yes, and sometimes. Our concept of grammar is very different. You say potato, and we say mutually assured destruction.

Usually, it's "a hundreden one" and "yer gunna hafta git out da winduh." How do you say "the whole rest of the season?"

Correctly.

[TAZ-99]

I'm sorry you take it that way. I did address aspects of your theory, too.

I don't believe mods can add tags. In fact, now I think about it, I'm not sure users can edit tags in either (they have to be added when the thread is first posted I think), so scrap that idea. It was intended as if to say "neat post, make sure it shows up in people's searches" but obviously didn't come off like that.



Sorry for getting snippy ;) - it was late and your first sentence was a critique of the formatting...anyways I read your thoughts and like I said this is just one theory...I mentioned the LDS and the Biblical reference to illustrate that civilizations have always followed this cycle or one very similar. Its all a matter if interpretation.

It's not intended to be the be all end all of deciphering the BSG code, merely a different way of interpreting the mantra. Rather than there is a time loop and 1 colony becomes 13 becomes 1 again.

From this perspective, I don't give a lot of merit to the numbers. Before it may have been 12 and 1 tribe. This time it may be 2 tribes. Or 5 or 7 or 99.

****

My other thought goes to the how the tomb map and prophecy and name of Earth came to be known to Pythia and the Colonials.

If we accept that Head 6 is not some cylon program gone astray and is in fact an angel of god (its a tv show - my real world thoughts on the origins of man do not play here) or some other divine entity - and we accept that some humans and even cylons have visions that come true...

Then who is to say for certain that some one from Earth HAD to come back to Kobol?

Why can't we just assume that Pythia the Oracle envisioned it all? Including the creation of the Map room or how to create it. If for no other reason than the fact that the 12 tribes knew to take the Arrow of Apollo with them. They just forgot why.

The Galleon came from somewhere. If not from the 13th returned to destroy their once masters then from some other being. Maybe the God Six speaks of manifested a ship for them.

Once they (the writers) opened the door to the mythical the possibilities became endless.

Of course if you don't believe this show will have a mythical and divine ending, the divine that gives Head 6 the power to lift Baltar off his feet to take his beating then you will dismiss all of this and continue your struggle for a hard answer.

In real life I may dismiss religion while holding a tiny hope that there is some higher power - if not to assist us in life then to assist us in death to move on to the next level as it were...but in a fictional tale of any kind...I am willing to accept a lot more.

Baltar could concieve Head 6's virtual baby and I would not blink. My imagination is just that open.

Again - I apologize for getting snippy.
:thumbsup:

[genji2000]

Well, now it's late here and I have work in the morning so I can't even read your post, let alone answer it, so I'll leave that till the morning, but I will say, if it was a real apology, you'd've spelled it with an 's'. ;)

g'night

[TAZ-99]

Well, now it's late here and I have work in the morning so I can't even read your post, let alone answer it, so I'll leave that till the morning, but I will say, if it was a real apology, you'd've spelled it with an 's'. ;)

g'night


Now its my spelling? :p:p:p

Well pbbbthhttt!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

It was a real apology - however my sincerity algorithm (sp?) may be on the fritz...perhaps I need maintenance?

:thumbsup:

[genji2000]

...anyways I read your thoughts and like I said this is just one theory...I mentioned the LDS and the Biblical reference to illustrate that civilizations have always followed this cycle or one very similar. Its all a matter if interpretation.

Yeah - I agree it's worth bringing up, I just don't think we should read too much into its influence on the new series. Whatever similarities there are are due to TOS' influence on the RDM version. Other religions have obviously influenced the show, but I feel (no evidence, might be wrong) that they'd steer clear of LDS because of TOS' reliance on it.

I thought I'd posted something relevant to this on the Forum some time ago but I can't find it now. It's a definition of creation stories, which follow the same sequence.


Creation
Exit from the Garden
Quest for the Holy Grail
Reunion

I'm not sure if that's of any interest to you but I thought it might expand on your Adam and Eve interpretation.

It's not intended to be the be all end all of deciphering the BSG code, merely a different way of interpreting the mantra. Rather than there is a time loop and 1 colony becomes 13 becomes 1 again.

From this perspective, I don't give a lot of merit to the numbers. Before it may have been 12 and 1 tribe. This time it may be 2 tribes. Or 5 or 7 or 99.

I always interpreted the number of tribes being down to the number of the Lords of Kobol, each tribe identifying more with one 'god' than another. I suppose I'd tack onto this the Thirteenth Tribe being aligned with a more monotheistic outlook, and their 'god' desiring to be worshipped above the others. Would you completely dismiss this or would you say that, as with your varying numbers of tribes, there would be a varying number of Lords of Kobol?

... If we accept that Head 6 is not some cylon program gone astray and is in fact an angel of god...

That's a BIG 'if'. I think we've been assured that we will get an explanation of what the Head characters are. Whether that will be definitive and detailed I don't know. We've also been told by Jamie Bamber that the end will be equally satisfying to both atheists and theists. I think this precludes the identification of Head Six as an angel because that would confirm that there is a god and that he or she has had a hand in manipulating the events of the show. Ugh.

However, if theists can see what they want to in the show, then for the sake of theorising...

... or some other divine entity - and we accept that some humans and even cylons have visions that come true...

Then who is to say for certain that some one from Earth HAD to come back to Kobol?

Why can't we just assume that Pythia the Oracle envisioned it all? Including the creation of the Map room or how to create it. If for no other reason than the fact that the 12 tribes knew to take the Arrow of Apollo with them. They just forgot why.

Well I don't say one of the Thirteenth Tribe had to return to Kobol, but for me that's because the name of Earth might have already existed in Kobollians' minds. Are you suggesting that Pythia was visited by Head Six (or an alternative equivalent) who revealed the prophecies to her (and by extension, was Pythia the Chosen One of her time)? An alternative might be that Pythia is Head Six. How would either of those play out for an atheist?

The Galleon came from somewhere. If not from the 13th returned to destroy their once masters then from some other being. Maybe the God Six speaks of manifested a ship for them.

The god of Hogwarts, you mean, with his magic wand? :lol: The galleon is just a spaceship, I think, built by the twelve tribes to take them from Kobol to the twelve planets that became the Colonies. In a previous cycle it could've been a sea vessel. Do we know if the twelve tribes intermingled on Kobol or if they lived in separate colonies?

Once they (the writers) opened the door to the mythical the possibilities became endless.

Only in terms of including all the gash ones, which they do their best to avoid.

Of course if you don't believe this show will have a mythical and divine ending, the divine that gives Head 6 the power to lift Baltar off his feet to take his beating then you will dismiss all of this and continue your struggle for a hard answer.

Well, like I said, it has been confirmed that the show will not have a mythical and divine ending - that it will remain true to its sci-fi heritage (I know using that phrase is going to come back and bite me) and everything will be explained scientifically and naturally, without any religious mumbo-jumbo. It's just that theists will be able to see the hand of god in the story, too, if they want to, like they do in real life.

Head Six lifting Baltar off his feet was a mistake. The intention was to vaguely imply that she had and the cast and crew overplayed it.

[Major Murphy]

Genji, I've actually spent a few minutes now contemplating this, and I'm fairly baffled. What do you find grammatically incorrect with "the whole rest of the season" and "out the window"?

[genji2000]

Genji, I've actually spent a few minutes now contemplating this, and I'm fairly baffled. What do you find grammatically incorrect with "the whole rest of the season" and "out the window"?

Nowt. Just a bit of banter with me mate Dirt.

[Major Murphy]

hahaha ok thanks! now I can get back to contemplating the more important matters of life such as BSG....

[genji2000]

hahaha ok thanks! now I can get back to contemplating the more important matters of life such as BSG....

Good choice. Really that stuff's just about passing the time of day until the OP (in this case TAZ-99) comes back. Both phrases lack prepositions but it's really not important except as a means to wind each other up.

[The Dirt]

Looks like Major Murphy has picked his side, Mr. Genji. You and your fancy prepositions! We talk 'merican English here.

[genji2000]

I know (http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?p=24547#post24547).

[snowmelter]

Let's not forget, as the colonists get closer to earth the relics they find get older and older which is pretty convincing evidence that the original inhabitants of Kobol came from earth and left markers behind them, which the 13th tribe used to get back and which our heroes are now following.

[MHall]

Can you give an example? The arrow is of indeterminate age. The beacon is of indeterminate age. The temple is 4,000 years old.

[genji2000]

Can you give an example? The arrow is of indeterminate age. The beacon is of indeterminate age. The temple is 4,000 years old.

The Cylon bones on 'Earth' are carbon-dated to be 6,000 years old.

[icklepants]

The Cylon bones on 'Earth' are carbon-dated to be 6,000 years old.

I didn't know that. Then again what I know could be put in a small box and labelled "irrelevent crap", I thought the beacon was around 2000 years old by the way.

This happening before and happening again is really starting to Babylon 5 it up with war bringing about the evolution of the species. How about the seven production line cylons are the Shadows and the final five are the Vorlons. All this has been written before and will be written again... ;)

[genji2000]

I didn't know that.

Actually, it's not true. Sorry.

[timbo]

Actually, it's not true. Sorry.

I like it.

I had a kinda newish thought the other day. I have been thinking in terms of this happening before etc. in terms of just once. Without really thinking it through, I was thinking purely of something of the last cycle overlapping with this one. But what if the last twenty cycles all somehow overlap with all of each other, including and up to this one. What if the show is full of cylons from lots of different cycles, all at different stages of evolution. Maybe the humans were originally cylon creations instead of the other way round. We are the children, not them. Makes more sense to me this way.

[MHall]

timbo, I'm convinced that there are two interwoven cycles. There are similarities between the Revelations planet and Kobol. Both had a domed structure in what was apparently the main city. In the Book of Pythia, a blow-up cut-away view of the domed Temple of Aurora is on the page after the city map of Kobol, with its domed opera house visible in the center. This suggests a close relation, and possible confusion, between Kobol and what the scriptures call "Earth." So, I speculate that the Thirteenth Tribe had its Blaze about 70 years ago and was taken on the Great Ship to the 12 Colonies, probably arriving in the last year or two, or perhaps they went only part way on the Galleon and the Galactica will take them the rest of the way. I think if you were to ask the survivors of Revelations planet would say that the rag-tag fleet is the Thirteenth Tribe and that Kobol is Earth, except they wouldn't know where it is.

The show takes place no more than 5,000 years in the future, judging by the constellations, so it appears that there has been time for only one 4,000 year cycle... or for two if there are two parallel cycles.

[timbo]

timbo, I'm convinced that there are two interwoven cycles. There are similarities between the Revelations planet and Kobol. Both had a domed structure in what was apparently the main city. In the Book of Pythia, a blow-up cut-away view of the domed Temple of Aurora is on the page after the city map of Kobol, with its domed opera house visible in the center. This suggests a close relation, and possible confusion, between Kobol and what the scriptures call "Earth." So, I speculate that the Thirteenth Tribe had its Blaze about 70 years ago and was taken on the Great Ship to the 12 Colonies, probably arriving in the last year or two, or perhaps they went only part way on the Galleon and the Galactica will take them the rest of the way. I think if you were to ask the survivors of Revelations planet would say that the rag-tag fleet is the Thirteenth Tribe and that Kobol is Earth, except they wouldn't know where it is.

The show takes place no more than 5,000 years in the future, judging by the constellations, so it appears that there has been time for only one 4,000 year cycle... or for two if there are two parallel cycles.

OK ok, I hear you and I agree up to a point. This is more or less what I think too. But what if on top of these two cycles, there have been many cycles before also. It makes sense that this will keep happening every 5000 years or so into the future, so logically, it has happened every 5000 years or so in the past. Time is infinite both ways. Maybe we will finish with the chicken and egg, who created who originally, question. I think we are all looking for fixed points of reference, in the show, and in our lives, but in reality their aren´t any. The whole time and space thing is in constant flux, and we are just seeing a tiny part of it in the show.

[Pnutmaster]

timbo, I'm convinced that there are two interwoven cycles. There are similarities between the Revelations planet and Kobol. Both had a domed structure in what was apparently the main city. In the Book of Pythia, a blow-up cut-away view of the domed Temple of Aurora is on the page after the city map of Kobol, with its domed opera house visible in the center. This suggests a close relation, and possible confusion, between Kobol and what the scriptures call "Earth." So, I speculate that the Thirteenth Tribe had its Blaze about 70 years ago and was taken on the Great Ship to the 12 Colonies, probably arriving in the last year or two, or perhaps they went only part way on the Galleon and the Galactica will take them the rest of the way. I think if you were to ask the survivors of Revelations planet would say that the rag-tag fleet is the Thirteenth Tribe and that Kobol is Earth, except they wouldn't know where it is.

The show takes place no more than 5,000 years in the future, judging by the constellations, so it appears that there has been time for only one 4,000 year cycle... or for two if there are two parallel cycles.

I've considered this. My only complaint, wouldn't the 12 Tribes of Earth bump into the Cylons at some point? (that is, before their surprise attack on the 12 Colonies of Kobol)?

Secondly, I think the Cylons met an evolutionary dead end with the Hybrids. Only the appearance of the Final Five from Earth gave them the tools and the knowledge to create full blown humanoid Cylons (unless you want to suggest that the Final Five are Earth's version of the Lords of Kobol).

[MHall]

I've considered this. My only complaint, wouldn't the 12 Tribes of Earth bump into the Cylons at some point? (that is, before their surprise attack on the 12 Colonies of Kobol)?
For those trying to follow, the (hypothetical) 12 Tribes of "Earth" = the Thirteenth Tribe. I suspect they recently had their exodus analogous to the exodus of the Tribes from Kobol. I'll switch now to discussing Kobol, because it's less confusing that way.

The galaxy is a big place, so it's unlikely that the inhabitants of Kobol would have just run into the Cylons. Also, I am not so sure the inhabitants of Kobol had spaceflight. All indications are that Kobol was their only world, and that they had only one major city on that world. The refugees from the Blaze on Kobol were taken by the Galleon and Great Ship to the Colonies, but those ships could have been from "the Thirteenth Tribe", who, if everything is symmetric, should have been at the height of their technological advancement, but at the end of their civilization (their own rag-tag fleet.)

Switching back to the Thirteenth Tribe, I'm wild-guessing what's going to happen is that the Galactica will find refugees on one of the planets in the Ionian System and take them to the 12 Colonies, thus completing the journey of their 12 tribes to the 12 Colonies, with Galactica as the Great Ship, and our 12 Tribes as their Thirteenth Tribe. Too confusing? Maybe. But Grace Park had to watch the finale three times AND have RDM explain it to her.

Secondly, I think the Cylons met an evolutionary dead end with the Hybrids. Only the appearance of the Final Five from Earth gave them the tools and the knowledge to create full blown humanoid Cylons (unless you want to suggest that the Final Five are Earth's version of the Lords of Kobol).I think all that is sort of true. I think Cavil is from the Home of the Thirteenth, and he had the knowledge to create the rest of the Sig Seven. Plus, I think the Final Five are Lords of Kobol.

[snowmelter]

Can you give an example? The arrow is of indeterminate age. The beacon is of indeterminate age. The temple is 4,000 years old.

When the Galactica first finds Kobol in season one, Billy is talking to Roslin and says that preliminary data dates the ruins at 2000 yrs (Kobol's last gleaming 1). This would date the Arrow of Apollo at about the same time as it was made for the tomb of Athena and she died as the colonists left and, I assume, as civilization was ending on Kobol.

In the episode with the cylon disease, Cottle says that the disease on the beacon was 3000 yrs old.

The Eye of Jupiter is dated at four thousand years.

Thus, it's my opinion that humans (and perhaps cylons as well) originated on Earth in the first cycle. After some sort of cataclysm they fled to Kobol. Then there was the business with the blaze, the war among the gods, and the (second?) exodus to the twelve colonies with the 13th tribe retracing its steps back to earth using the landmarks (so to speak) left in the original exodus.

Perhaps the 13th tribe found the ruins on earth (as Galactica found ruins on Kobol) and moved on from there. After all, as has been stated elsewhere, Elosha said that earth was the promised land, not the book of pythia.