Faith

[genji2000]

So... following on from the iPhone fiasco (http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=1554), my faith in Apple was completely restored today.

The newest Apple Retail Store opened today in Liverpool One, which is our new urban consumer facility, allegedly the biggest temple of shopping in Europe, created for Liverpool's Capital of Culture status (lol) this year. L1 opened in June. The fact that this is six months into the CoC year seems not to have been a problem. CoC? Half-cocked, more like. Scouse fail.

Anyway... I've wanted a Time Capsule for a while and once I heard (about four months ago) that Liverpool would one day have its very own proper Apple Store I decide to hang on and put my money into a local facility, in the hope that the finance of people like me would vaguely offset the obviously countless times the store will get hijacked and ramraided in the course of the next few weeks.

So we heard that, on opening, the first 1,000 visitors (not purchasers) would receive a free t-shirt and so we elected to get up early on a Saturday and go down to check it out. We got there at 8:35am.

And we were 300th in line.

?

Who the hell celebrates the opening of a shop like this? It wasn't the Apple Cure For Cancer Store, nor the Apple Free Sex And Money This Way Store, it was just a computer store.

This is the UK. We don't do Disney high fives and whoopin' and a-hollerin' here.

Ten minutes later about fifty store assistants literally burst forth from the fingerprint-resistant glass doors a-whoopin' and a-hollerin', slapping high fives, shaking hands, welcoming the punters and that. Embarrassing to the phuquing max...

Until you realised that all your fellow scouse cynical hard-asses were slapping those high-fives back and smilin' and a-coming like some kid had just died on the main thoroughfare and they had the opportunity to a-hang some a-football shirts and flowers (to rot) on the fences and trees.

So you (i.e. I, and my loved ones) felt a bit stupid being sensible, and also slapped a couple of high fives and may have muttered the odd "how do you do?"... like a twat.

It got a bit out of hand.

...8:59:50...

The conjoined ludicrosity of voices from inside the store...

10, 9, 8... etc... you know the rest.

iPhones galore in the queue (mine included) hit the "lift-off" bang-on (apple.time.eu or something)... the doors opened and the first of the queuing scouse suckers went in to the pointless cheers and applauding of countless store assistants handing out t-shirts and love...

I will say this - 300th in line we may have been, but we were in that jizz inside of four minutes, t-shirts in hand, assistants crawling all over us like Disney World cast.

And it was great. Really. I love Disney World because I know what I'm getting: people who couldn't care less if I die of cancer treating me like I'm their last link to salvation. That's what I pay for in Disney World. And to get the same from Apple today (Christ! Steve Big Jobs wasn't even there!) made me feel safe - no matter how stupid I might have come off as (and I didn't because I know what I want a Time Capsule for).

The nearby cafes and smokers' corners were full of scousers carrying legitimately purchased iMacs and MacBooks.

A triumphant shop opening. !.

The highlight, however, was provided by the next-door Nike shop which sent its cynical five-strong sales force out to do a parody - group huddle, cheering high-fives, and the subtlest of scouse spits on Apple's forecourt. Ah, reality.

Twas BS of the highest order, of course, and swept away as I was by a display of all the products that I already have, the genius of Apple was yet to come... and come it did, all over my chops...

The mighty Time Capsule.

OMG (and no apologies for using cliched internet speak). OMFG. I cannot believe the genius of this device. I plugged it in, it scanned my home network, asked me for a password and then set itself up. I now have 802.11n to my MacBooks and iMac whilst separately maintaining a 802.11g network for my older Macs and iPhones. Genius.

All faults over the iPhone launch are completely forgiven.

Apple rules.

[pagad]

Just don't go plugging it into any defence mainframes.

[genji2000]

There are none left. The MoD left them all on a train.

[timbo]

The mighty Time Capsule.

OMG (and no apologies for using cliched internet speak). OMFG. I cannot believe the genius of this device. I plugged it in, it scanned my home network, asked me for a password and then set itself up. I now have 802.11n to my MacBooks and iMac whilst separately maintaining a 802.11g network for my older Macs and iPhones. Genius.


802.1gmaciphonewankscan What the fuck are you talking about?

........... and if you have got a time machine, pick me up at half eight, last wednesday, and we can shoot forward to next year and see who the final cylon is.

.......... and I am coming back to England tomorrow, so Genji, Zod, Pagad and the fifth still in darkness, get ready to start hearing the tune in your head, there´s a reckonin´acomin´.

[genji2000]

802.1gmaciphonewankscan What the fuck are you talking about?

........... and if you have got a time machine, pick me up at half eight, last wednesday, and we can shoot forward to next year and see who the final cylon is.

.......... and I am coming back to England tomorrow, so Genji, Zod, Pagad and the fifth still in darkness, get ready to start hearing the tune in your head, there´s a reckonin´acomin´.

This (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant).

Good luck with the trip. Hope it goes well.

[timbo]

Thanks dude.

We are staying at my folks house and my Dad has internet now. Hopefully, the grumpy old bugger will let me use it, and I can spend my holiday time on the forum, along with a bit of fishing, trawling second hand bookshops, and generally showing off that I am a fairly normal person now. It still comes as a big surprise to a lot of the people I meet.

I might even catch a Leicester game. Although in the division they are in now, they use jumpers for goalposts, someone´s dad is the ref, rush goalies are allowed and it is all sponsored by the local butcher.

Blue army.

[genji2000]

Excellent. Ollie just found this (http://missingbite.com/).

He and his friend did the Garageband Apple Summer Camp today. Smiles all round.

And on the same day I read this about Microsoft's latest advertising campaign:

Our attitude towards those who once upon a time believed in the flatness of the earth is apparent in a new Microsoft advert.

Depicting an olden-days ship sailing on rough seas, presumably heading towards the "edge of the world", the advert is part of a $300m campaign aimed at rescuing the reputation of Windows Vista by comparing its critics to flat-earthers.
Tossers. People hate Vista because it's shit, not because we're retards.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

People hate Vista because it's shit, not because we're retards.

Truer words have never been spoken.

Vista makes Windows ME look like a work of art in comparison.

[genji2000]

I just can't fathom their arrogance. They're actually going out into the marketplace and telling us their product's actually quite good and we should stop being thick and give it a chance.

And they're spending over a quarter of a billion dollars to do this.

[Jonathan]

I just can't fathom their arrogance.

What is hard to understand? They are an American global corporation. The epitomy of Big Brother who has been used, for too long, to getting their way and having people do, for too long, what they tell them to.

[genji2000]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7562720.stm

lol.

wankers.

[Arista]

People hate Vista because it's shit, not because we're retards.
I'll admit it... I'm a Windows person. I haven't touched an Apple computer since I was in the fifth grade playing "Oregon Trail" on an Apple iie. I have nothing against Apple. It just is what it is.

But this? I so, so have to agree with this statement. About a year ago I bought a shiny new Dell XPS. It came with Vista. I'm a computer person. I've got a BS in Computer Science and work as a programmer. I'm generally not a 'tard when it comes to computers, but Vista!? WTF? I hated it with the fire of a thousand suns. That operating system gave me more trouble than it was even worth. I finally wiped my hard drive and downgraded to Windows XP because I was truly on the verge of committing homicide. In fact, just thinking about the whole ordeal makes me want to punch someone in the face.

Wow. I'm really late to this thread!

[thevarrior]

Truer words have never been spoken.

Vista makes Windows ME look like a work of art in comparison.

You've probably done your research, so that's a valid assessment.

However, as I recall, there was a study done where they took a bunch of people who hated Vista... and had never used it. They just hated it. Basically, what the Windows team did was redesign it so that they changed its name to something completely different, I don't remember what it was exactly. But everything else besides the name was *exactly* Vista. All the people who had hated it, loved it.... even though it was actually Vista.

So..... I dunno.

[Bruce]

if that proves anything, it's that people are spackers.

given the number of albums that Nickelback manage to sell I'd say we already knew that.

[The Dirt]

But this? I so, so have to agree with this statement. About a year ago I bought a shiny new Dell XPS. It came with Vista. I'm a computer person. I've got a BS in Computer Science and work as a programmer. I'm generally not a 'tard when it comes to computers, but Vista!? WTF? I hated it with the fire of a thousand suns. That operating system gave me more trouble than it was even worth. I finally wiped my hard drive and downgraded to Windows XP because I was truly on the verge of committing homicide. In fact, just thinking about the whole ordeal makes me want to punch someone in the face.

This is 98% of my story. I bought a new HP laptop that HAD to have Vista. After a year of crap, I finally "downgraded" to XP. HP (those bastards) didn't even make the drivers available to the public for XP because they're such Microsoft whores. I had to scour their ftp site until I randomly found the drivers. XP runs faster, uses less memory, makes my battery last longer, and it doesn't ask me to confirm that I wanted to do what I just told it to do. I also have a software partition of Ubuntu, which is awesome, except it doesn't run what I need it to run. I am a computer person, I work in IT and I hate Vista. I gave it a chance at first, but after it took 24 hours of self-rebooting to install some updates, I realized that it is crap.

Mac... a solid operating system, good design and computer, but it's way overpriced and full of itself. It is marketed to morons and trendy idiots that want to feel like they're a part of something that is just sucking money out of their pockets. Linux is every bit as good as Mac but costs $0. The biggest thing that Linux is lacking is 3rd party software and the hardware compatibility issue is starting to disappear.

[Prolescum]

Everybody's right, vista, (and I have experience unfortunately), is the spastic twin of Windows ME, (or should that be MS?) I recently had to retrieve somebody's crap from their ME... Cor I need to swear. As for Macs, they are shiny but I'm not a magpie, I am a free man!

Asus Eeepc (oh yes, what a beautiful thing this is) w/Ubuntu Hardy Heron (it's my mash up of studio with both Gnome and KDE for rock-hard ball-bashing!)

[The Dirt]

I haven't tried KDE, but I was considering installing Kubuntu. Other than the desktop environment, are there any issues with any Linux applications? Do the GNOME apps work in KDE without any problems?

[genji2000]

There are three fundamental reasons to buy a Mac.

1. Cost. Equivalent spec'd HP or Dell machines are too expensive. I bought four MacBook Pros for the office and got higher spec machines for more than £500 less than I would have spent on Dells or HPs. Try it: take the bottom-end MBP and try to match the specs on Dell's or HP's website. Macs being more expensive is a myth and has been since Apple switched to Intel processors.

2. Speed. This is in comparison with Windows. Any version of Windows. Why anyone who claims to know anything about computing would run a Microsoft OS is beyond me (excluding job-related reasons). The first thing you have to do to connect a Windows PC to the Internet is install antivirus software. How much does that slow it down? In my experience I'd estimate at least 30% in comparison with leaving it unprotected. In addition to this, a Mac is a platform. The hardware and OS are designed for each other, so both are optimised. Part of the reason Windows suffers crashes and poor performance is because it needs to run on a wide range of undefined hardware. By necessity it has to cater for the lowest common denominator.

3. Reliability. It works, honestly. The only issues I have with my laptop are in relation to running Microsoft Office for Mac, which is occasionally a bit sluggish. No other element of operation causes any problem. Ever. People do have issues with Macs of course; things go wrong. I just haven't experienced them. Again, the hardware is designed for the OS and vice versa.

"way overpriced and full of itself. It is marketed to morons and trendy idiots"

I think you're talking about the MacBook Air, there, and I'd agree with you on that. But people who want a MBA know they're buying novelty and design. What do you mean, "full of itself"? Do you mean boasting about its reliability and speed annoys you?

There are other reasons to buy a Mac, personal preferences. I used Cubase for a long time, and it was never reliable, but I figured that was the nature of DAWs (mainly because of third-party VSTs). When Intel came along, Steinberg shafted its customer base by not upgrading Cubase but rewriting it, and charging for a new product. Almost every other software developer updated their products free of charge. I tried Logic Pro and was blown away by its speed and stability. I ended up sticking with it and have used it for almost three years now. I'd never use any other DAW. Logic is only available for the Mac.

All Intel Macintoshes can run Windows, natively. You can boot into Windows and it runs the same as it would on a PC (yes, including anti-virus slowdown and third-party driver issues; and USB management - sheesh, don't talk to me about USB devices on XP). I have XP installed on most of my Macs, but I don't use it. The only person who uses it is my son who plays Battle for Middle-earth. That's the only use we have for Windows (well, I have one other limited use).

If you haven't used and depended on OS X extensively and for a reasonable period of time then you're not in a position to criticise it, or Macs, which is why I haven't criticised Linux/Ubuntu. I will say, though, that because OS X runs on a UNIX base, it is very significantly configurable via the CLI.

[Prolescum]

I haven't tried KDE, but I was considering installing Kubuntu. Other than the desktop environment, are there any issues with any Linux applications? Do the GNOME apps work in KDE without any problems?

Most of the apps are compatible in both, but I've had issues with running Amarok on Gnome. Other than that, Gimp, Audacity, Hydrogen etc work both ways. I used KDE for quite a while before with a different distrobution and it can be really sweet, although I was being lazy, (it's icon-tastic for those who aren't familiar). Testing 4.0 at the mo, haven't tried compiz or anything flashy with it yet.

If you haven't used and depended on OS X extensively and for a reasonable period of time then you're not in a position to criticise it, or Macs, which is why I haven't criticised Linux/Ubuntu. I will say, though, that because OS X runs on a UNIX base, it is very significantly configurable via the CLI.

True, my friend gave me a tour and it seemed really pretty. There are pros and cons to each flavour of OS, but Vista has too few pluses and too many bad points and, in my eyes, it's a shame for those that use it expect a certain amount of functionality when it blatantly isn't there.

UNIX rocks

[Arista]

Why anyone who claims to know anything about computing would run a Microsoft OS is beyond me.
Ahh, interesting comment there, Sir. My reasoning is, mainly, because the applications I develop for my job are meant to be run on a Windows OS (2000/XP/Vista). Therefore, it makes sense for me to develop and test using a Windows machine. At this time, it's the OS I'm most familiar with and most comfortable using.

Overall, your post regarding the Mac was a good read. Perhaps when it comes time for me to upgrade to a new machine, I'll give serious consideration to getting a Mac.

[genji2000]

Ahh, interesting comment there, Sir. My reasoning is, mainly, because the applications I develop for my job are meant to be run on a Windows OS (2000/XP/Vista). Therefore, it makes sense for me to develop and test using a Windows machine. At this time, it's the OS I'm most familiar with and most comfortable using.

Overall, your post regarding the Mac was a good read. Perhaps when it comes time for me to upgrade to a new machine, I'll give serious consideration to getting a Mac.

Ah yes, good point... perhaps I should modify my post: there is a good reason to use Windows if your job dictates it. I managed to talk my boss into going for Macs for my office but the rest of the organisation uses Windows.

I was speaking more for personal use, though. Even if you need to bring work home with you, Macs run Windows too.

[timbo]

I´ve got a computer. It is black and silver and makes a humming noise.

[BSGfan-atic]

timbo wrote:

I´ve got a computer. It is black and silver and makes a humming noise.

I just put my old typewriter on the floor in front of the tv and pretend that everything on the screen is a result of my pounding the keys. I never seem to run into OS issues or anything. It must be that 500mg, 4x daily, of phuqemol that makes me so relaxed around computers...:lol: Ahh, computers.

[The Dirt]

There are three fundamental reasons to buy a Mac.

1. Cost. Equivalent spec'd HP or Dell machines are too expensive. I bought four MacBook Pros for the office and got higher spec machines for more than £500 less than I would have spent on Dells or HPs. Try it: take the bottom-end MBP and try to match the specs on Dell's or HP's website. Macs being more expensive is a myth and has been since Apple switched to Intel processors.

2. blah blah blah blah blah

I was going to write a point by point response to this, but then I realized that I didn't really care about the topic too much anyway. I think you're right about most of what you say. I just disagree with it.

[genji2000]

...I realized that I didn't really care about the topic too much anyway...

That's the bottom line. It's a personal preference, but I think saying "marketed to morons and trendy idiots" was ill-informed and antagonistic. If you want your apps and Internet browsing to work at a reasonable speed you need to get off Windows because it needs too much time and attention (and reinstallations) to keep it running sweetly. The choice is Linux or OS X on a Mac. My choice is mainly down to Logic Pro but I also think the hardware/software combination is a strength. I haven't used Linux so I can't comment on how much time you need to invest fixing it or making it work and interoperate with other computers and third-party products and software. You (can) spend time configuring and tweaking OS X but you don't need to fix it or search for drivers to make it work with other computers or third-party products or software. Your time contributes to overall running cost. You buy a Mac, you use it.

As for marketing, yes, these days Apple are slick, but don't mistake being susceptible to the marketing of a glorified mobile phone with the deliberate choice of computer platform. And you cannot compare Apple's recent marketing strategy with the years of Microsoft terrorism we've had. Microsoft were responsible for millions of dollars of loss in business for many years because they successfully marketed inferior products that were insecure and didn't work properly in a networked environment.

[Bruce]

i think you're right about most of what you say. I just disagree with it.

loltron!

[The Dirt]

That's the bottom line. It's a personal preference, but I think saying "marketed to morons and trendy idiots" was ill-informed and antagonistic.

Well, my fiance had to use a Mac for school and she completely loves them now. She's definitely not a moron (including technologically), nor is she a trendy idiot. There's nothing wrong with Mac, but their ad campaigns make me want to hurl up a lung, have it surgically reattached to my body, then hurl it up again. I don't think people that use Macs are stupid, but Mac tries to pander to the stupid. It's not a particularly bad strategy, as most people are clueless when it comes to technology, it just personally turns me off. It also turns me off that whenever I don't own a MP3 player that doesn't happen to be an iPod or one of it's diminutive cousins, I'm ostracized for not being "with it". So, my problem is not with the technology, it's with the way Mac is advertized and tries to make Mac into some trendy brand name that everyone shouldn't leave their nuclear fallout shelters without. Technology is technology - it either does what it says it does or it doesn't. I don't care if the box that the pictures fly out of and into my eye is "sleek", "shiny", or any combination of those two words ("Sliny"). There's about a $200 price difference in the US between an Apple and a PC. Damn it, now I went and wasted a bunch of time on this.

[genji2000]

Fair enough. Once again though - you can't blame Mac because your friends are sucked in by iPod marketing. iPod and iPhone are not Mac.