Resurrection Hub question

[Aurora]

With the Hub destroyed, does that mean that cylons can no longer be resurrected anywhere...or just the Cylons that are out in space? Is there a Cylon home world somewhere that would still have resurrection capability?

[genji2000]

We are led to believe that they can no longer resurrect anywhere, perhaps that they abandoned the Cylon Homeworld, but we can speculate that the technology still exists there.

[Neakal]

It is implied the Hub is unique, generally irreplacable (perhaps because the technology is lost or maybe because a new Hub would not be `aligned` with the existing Cylons) and that regular Ressurection Ships acted as boosters for the Hub. We don't know what state the Homeworld is at this point or if it even exists. So from what we can tell, yes Ressurection is all over.

[Aurora]

It is implied the Hub is unique, generally irreplacable (perhaps because the technology is lost or maybe because a new Hub would not be `aligned` with the existing Cylons) and that regular Ressurection Ships acted as boosters for the Hub. We don't know what state the Homeworld is at this point or if it even exists. So from what we can tell, yes Ressurection is all over.

You are probably right...but how dumb is it to have resurrection capability ultimately dependent on just ONE location. Silly cylons. :lol:

[stavrosg]

It wasn't one location, period. It was "all over the place" as it constantly jumped about and if you weren't a cylon, you wouldn't be able to locate it anyway.
The Cylons didn't of course expect that they would get involved in a civil war and then half of them would try to destroy it so building redundancy was a waste of resources.

[genji2000]

It wasn't one location, period. It was "all over the place" as it constantly jumped about and if you weren't a cylon, you wouldn't be able to locate it anyway.

In conjunction with the Resurrection Ships, that's correct - the Resurrection Ships literally were all over the place in terms of the places that Cylons were. The Cylons considered the jumping pattern of the Hub to be the only defence it needed, since the humans would never learn about the pattern, and definitely never be able to work it out, and, really, what were the chances of a bunch of Cylons trying to destroy it?

[Stairway]

I think that they have a resurrection facility on their home world, but it's just like a Resurrection ship, the hub controls it too, even though it's not a ship (Or it could be a Resurrection ship that doesn't leave the home world).

[theConflict365]

The only thing that confuses me is what Cavil told Natalie in -- oh, I'm not exactly sure, say the episode "Six of One" -- when the Cavils and their faction begin firing on the Twos, Sixes and Eights. She wants to revive the threes, specifically Dianna, and he finally complies after all her Centurions shoot up all their little dinner party and gentleman's club. He say's, "Okay, the nearest Hub is in [sic] this sector," which is the episode -- if everyone remembers -- the second time we see the Orion constellation. The phrase "the nearest Hub" seems to imply there are more than one but according to the episode "The Hub" there's supposedly only one, which seem to contradict each other. I know they've done this before but it still makes me wonder, did they ponder having multiple hubs then decide to revise that idea during the writing of "The Hub" or are there really more hubs out there?

[Aurora]

The phrase "the nearest Hub" seems to imply there are more than one but according to the episode "The Hub" there's supposedly only one, which seem to contradict each other. I know they've done this before but it still makes me wonder, did they ponder having multiple hubs then decide to revise that idea during the writing of "The Hub" or are there really more hubs out there?

Good catch! Maybe only the Cavils know the locations of other hubs? And Natalie certainly would not have divulged that there may be more out there when she was negotiating with the humans.

[genji2000]

The only thing that confuses me is what Cavil told Natalie in -- oh, I'm not exactly sure, say the episode "Six of One" -- when the Cavils and their faction begin firing on the Twos, Sixes and Eights. She wants to revive the threes, specifically Dianna, and he finally complies after all her Centurions shoot up all their little dinner party and gentleman's club. He say's, "Okay, the nearest Hub is in [sic] this sector," which is the episode -- if everyone remembers -- the second time we see the Orion constellation. The phrase "the nearest Hub" seems to imply there are more than one but according to the episode "The Hub" there's supposedly only one, which seem to contradict each other. I know they've done this before but it still makes me wonder, did they ponder having multiple hubs then decide to revise that idea during the writing of "The Hub" or are there really more hubs out there?

I don't think he does say that. He says, "The Threes' core consciousness is being downloaded at our central resurrection hub. The nearest accessible server is a half dozen jumps from here. We can go together and hear what your newfound heroine has to say."

They wouldn't make a mistake like that in Season Four. They would know before they began filming that the Hub (and the Cylons' ability to resurrect) would be destroyed by the end of 4.0.

[BSGfan-atic]

If I were a Cylon, having just one Resurrection Hub would strike me as unsatisfying and risky. There is so much stuff out there in space. What would happen if the Hub randomly jumped into an asteroid field (like that scene in Star Wars, ep. 4)? I would think that there would have to be some backstory behind this. Perhaps the virus from "Torn" got picked up and transmitted back to Cylon civilization despite their best efforts (a la "Hero"). If their homeworld was contaminated, then this might well be the only way to resurrect.

[genji2000]

If I were a Cylon, having just one Resurrection Hub would strike me as unsatisfying and risky. There is so much stuff out there in space. What would happen if the Hub randomly jumped into an asteroid field (like that scene in Star Wars, ep. 4)? I would think that there would have to be some backstory behind this. Perhaps the virus from "Torn" got picked up and transmitted back to Cylon civilization despite their best efforts (a la "Hero"). If their homeworld was contaminated, then this might well be the only way to resurrect.

Perhaps a single Resurrection Hub was the only technological solution? If so it wouldn't make sense to build it on the Cylon Homeworld because they would need it to be mobile.

[GoldWolf]

Having only one hub is a plot device used by RDM to make the biolons as mortal as humans.

The cylons as a group are the very example of redundancy; I cannot imagine that, if it were up to them and not the cylon god (ie, RDM), they'd have only one hub.

Unless, of course, the cylon god pulls yet another robot... er, rabbit... out of his hat!

[Aurora]

Having only one hub is a plot device used by RDM to make the biolons as mortal as humans.

You are probably right. I think I agree witrh those that theorize that Cylons evolve into humans to begin the the big cycle again. So the Hub had to be destroyed...

[Chiefchess]

I said this in other posts before, so if any of you have read this already, then just ignore it.
Aurora, I am certain (unless Cavil knows something the rest of us don't know) that the cylons have lost all ability to download. That being said, I feel that the F5 have some sort of resurrection facility hidden on Earth somewhere.
Consider the following:
1. The F5 have been to Earth before and built the Eye of Jupiter Temple on the algae planet thousands of years before BSG. Unless they age slowly (which I doubt, when you look at Tigh), the F5 must have a way to keep appearing over the years.
2. We will see the anti-human cylons (the 1s, 4s, 5s, and Boomer) before the finale. Baltar said that the finale was like "Apocolips Now", so there is a war going on between the anti-human cylons and the humans. So here is my question: Why would the anti-human cylons fight in the first place, especially now that they are mortal? Surely not for Earth, considering the shape it is in. Surely not simply for vengence. Cavil and his group may enjoy killing humans, but knowing that they can also die in the process would surely be enough to make them pause.
So why fight at all? I believe that the F5 have a resurrection facility on Earth, and the anti-human cylons want it so they can use it for themselves.
I am willing to bet we haven't seen the end to the "resurrection" question yet.

[Osprey]

"the F5 have a resurrection facility on Earth, and the anti-human cylons want it so they can use it for themselves."

hmmm -- surely the best theory i've seen so far re: cylons and their role in the last eps. ...

[genji2000]

"the F5 have a resurrection facility on Earth, and the anti-human cylons want it so they can use it for themselves."

hmmm -- surely the best theory i've seen so far re: cylons and their role in the last eps. ...

Seriously?

The 'Quote' button is your friend.

[theConflict365]

Seriously?

Yeah, that's a bit of a stretch considering what we know so far about the next half. I honestly thought they would get to Earth later on and wouldn't resolve the rebel-Cylon and Final Four dilemmas until, around the same time. The Ron & staff seemed to want to finally do the d@mn deed and get the he!! to Earth, which kinda blew me away.

What else could be developed, besides being resolved, is something that seems open to anything right now. I guess they wanted to give us something of substance to leave us in this long gap of time. You have the Final One left, the source of the signal, the history of Earth's demise, and the whereabouts of the One-led Cylons.

But, like a lot of us have already said, none of this clearly connects to any specific kind of conflict -- besides the Cylons wanting relentless revenge, Dianna turning into a a super bi@tch again, Baltar doin something crazy (crazy ol' Dr. haha gotta' love him) and Starbuck flippin out for various contrived reasons.

Oh, yeah, and the origin of the Final 5 as well. None of that "Caprica" mess makes sense to me: I mean if the Cylons were built there ca. 40 years before BSG then why would the Final 5 have been to Earth? Wouldn't that imply they came from Earth?

[Aurora]

Yeah, that's a bit of a stretch considering what we know so far about the next half. I honestly thought they would get to Earth later on and wouldn't resolve the rebel-Cylon and Final Four dilemmas until, around the same time. The Ron & staff seemed to want to finally do the d@mn deed and get the he!! to Earth, which kinda blew me away.

What else could be developed, besides being resolved, is something that seems open to anything right now. I guess they wanted to give us something of substance to leave us in this long gap of time. You have the Final One left, the source of the signal, the history of Earth's demise, and the whereabouts of the One-led Cylons. [/I]from Earth?

I think, too, they may spend time with the whole "all of this has happened before". I hope they show how the cycle end/begins again...

[Chiefchess]

Just a thought about "all this has happened before and will happen again."
If the Hybrid can be believed, the F5 have been to Earth long before BSG.
All well and good. We KNOW that the humans created the S7, and we keep hearing this frakken stuff about "the parents must die in order for the children to reach their full potential."
So here is a thought-What if the F5 created the human race after the distruction of Earth? Wouldn't that make the cylons the "parents?" What does that mean for the S7 cylons?
F5 killed by humans-humans killed by S7-S7 killed by hybrids (Hera)-Hera inherits the Earth?
Please don't let it be so!

[genji2000]

Just a thought about "all this has happened before and will happen again."
If the Hybrid can be believed, the F5 have been to Earth long before BSG.
All well and good. We KNOW that the humans created the S7, and we keep hearing this frakken stuff about "the parents must die in order for the children to reach their full potential."
So here is a thought-What if the F5 created the human race after the distruction of Earth? Wouldn't that make the cylons the "parents?" What does that mean for the S7 cylons?
F5 killed by humans-humans killed by S7-S7 killed by hybrids (Hera)-Hera inherits the Earth?
Please don't let it be so!

Your wish will be granted I think. I don't know what you mean by "the F5 created the human race" but I don't think RDM is going to throw creationism at us.

[genji2000]

A point to note - in Resurrection Ship Pt. 1, after he has quizzed Gina about the recon photos Kara took of the Resurrection Ship, Baltar delivers this report to the commanders:The Cylons call this their resurrection ship. At the moment, we are too far away from the Cylon Homeworld for the normal downloading process to work, which is why they built this ship. It contains the entire apparatus necessary for Cylon resurrection.Which indicates that, at least in Season Two, the Cylon Homeworld was the primary resurrection facility.

With the (Writers') invention of the Hub for plot reasons in Season Four, the original facility back on the Cylon Homeworld has become redundant. Of course we can fanwank this by speculating that the Cylons have abandoned their Homeworld, or indeed that even the original facility needed the Hub to operate, or that Gina would not have disclosed the reality of the Hub to Baltar and instead allowed him to believe in the Homeworld facility, but it does appear to be a change by the Writers, from Season Two to Season Four.

[UrsusArctos]

Is it likely that the Cylons use the word "homeworld" to describe some planet that's of tremendous importance to them? Earth, or perhaps Kobol? Baltar could have heard the word being used but misinterpreted it, or was misinformed?

[Neakal]

The Cylons do view Kobol as their birthplace as Leoben stated but that would not necessarily imply Homeworld as we also see Colonials using the term "homeworld" for the 12 Colonies even though they know they are not where humanity was born.

It is a good idea that maybe Baltar misinterpreted the term "homeworld" but the situation, I think, is similar to D'Anna's "in the fleet" comment. As someone said, D'Anna wasn't making a grammatical point by saying the Fleet is the military fleet (hence Galactica only) but using an all-encompassing term to describe the remnents of the 12 Colonies. I think the same case gues here. Gina (either previously or during interrogation) realises that the Colonials assume the Cylons have an adopted homeworld located beyond the Armistice Line. As a result, like Genji said, she says "Oh yea the main ressurection center is at the Homeworld".

On a completely side question, why was the Hub even travelling so close to the Fleet or travelling at all? Think about it: If ressurection ships act as boosters for the Hub, the Hub could have just been safely orbiting the supposed-location of the Cylon Homeworld (or the place got their main production facilities located) or sitting in the orbit of the Colonies or wherever the rest of the Cylons spend their days now.

Or is that the reason why the Hub began jumping? Did the Hub's Hybrid(s?) notice something was up? Was the Hub attempting to return to the Cylon Homeworld or the Cylon staging area? The impression given is that they went quite a long way jumping continously before they met the Hub. What we don't know is towards where they were jumping.

[Aurora]

We KNOW that the humans created the S7...

Do we know that? I thought humans created the Centurions, and that they created hybrids that evolved into the S7 models...?

[genji2000]

On a completely side question, why was the Hub even travelling so close to the Fleet or travelling at all? Think about it: If ressurection ships act as boosters for the Hub, the Hub could have just been safely orbiting the supposed-location of the Cylon Homeworld (or the place got their main production facilities located) or sitting in the orbit of the Colonies or wherever the rest of the Cylons spend their days now.

Or is that the reason why the Hub began jumping? Did the Hub's Hybrid(s?) notice something was up? Was the Hub attempting to return to the Cylon Homeworld or the Cylon staging area? The impression given is that they went quite a long way jumping continously before they met the Hub. What we don't know is towards where they were jumping.

When was the Hub close to the fleet? Wasn't the whole point of loading the Rebel Basestar with Vipers and colonial pilots to take advantage of the Rebel Hybrid's ability to chase the Hub down by calculating its co-ordinates? The Hub jumped constantly as a defence mechanism. I don't think it started jumping because the Cylons knew the Rebel Basestar was tracking it because Boomer isn't sure at first whether the Basestar is the enemy.

[Neakal]

Well the impression I got is that it wasn't that far away. Yes the Colonials needed coordinates and yes they probably shortened the onscreen time of how long it took Racetrack to get there but even with these, the fact that it was in the (albeit long) travelling distance of a Raptor (both in "Guess Whats Coming to Dinner" and "The Hub") gives me the feeling that the Hub has been travelling in the same general direction human and Cylon Fleets have been travelling as well, unless the Rebel Basestar jumped as far as the fringes of Colonial Space or the Armistice Line but that doesn't seem realisitic to me. What? It takes them two years (not counting that one year break on New Caprica) to travel away from Colonial Space/Armistice Line and two days to go back to for a quickie?

You get my point? Why would the frakkin thing go in the same general direction of the only source of threat to the Cylons instead of jumping constantly around a safe and presumably unreachable(to the Humans) area such as the now-empty Colonial Space?

[jabedoben]

To me, the real question is this.

Why can't they just build another? Who created all of this technology, if the ones who use it don't even know how to rebuild it?

This screams to me that the Cylon race is WAY older than we are lead to believe.

[genji2000]

You get my point? Why would the frakkin thing go in the same general direction of the only source of threat to the Cylons instead of jumping constantly around a safe and presumably unreachable(to the Humans) area such as the now-empty Colonial Space?

Yes I get your point but there are other factors, such as the number of jumps it takes Racetrack's Raptor to reach the Hub, what path the Hub follows, how far the fleet can jump (i.e. the civilian ships, which I doubt are intended for deep space exploration and may have limited FTL facilities), etc. Ultimately, the Rebel Basestar has to be able to hook up with the Hub in order to destroy it, so I'm sure a Raptor could. Most of the time the Cylons don't know where the colonial fleet is, exactly, and they're always trying to chase it down, so how can they put the Hub where the fleet isn't whilst ensuring that it's in range of the Resurrection Ships?

On the other hand, maybe it is well away from the colonial fleet. The point is that after it jumps, it relays its co-ordinates back to the Basestars. It's not how far away it is, but where it is that is important. How long does it take Athena to get Anders, Kara, Cavil and co. from Caprica to New Caprica?

[Chiefchess]

Do we know that? I thought humans created the Centurions, and that they created hybrids that evolved into the S7 models...?

Good point. And yet the S7 cylons have been on a mission to kill their "parents," the humans. How ironic would it be once they realize that the Centurions are the "parents" that must die in order for the S7 children to reach their full potential? I see another Cylon civil war on the horizon.

On a personal note, who taught the S7 cylons this theory that they needed to kill off their "parents?" I would argue that their "god" has his own way of doing things and doesn't need their help in destroying the perceived parents, the humans. Also, that is not the natural order of things. How many other species do we know where the children murder their parents? I know of several species that eat their young, but not the other way around. I could be wrong, but you would think the cylons would have thought this out somewhere in the forty years before they attacked the twelve colonies.

[smelly_feet]

It would be cool if the centurions manipulated everything for the final result of a destroyed hub, so they no longer need to obey the skin jobs.

[Osprey]

is it definitive that centurions don't resurrect? after all, we know raiders DO ...

[genji2000]

is it definitive that centurions don't resurrect? after all, we know raiders DO ...

Yes, it is. Centurions don't resurrect. The Hub has been destroyed.

.)

[Osprey]

ok, jus' askin' ...

[genji2000]

I was kidding. Nobody resurrects now that the Hub has been destroyed.

[Osprey]

ug ...

DID centurions resurrect? I see no evidence for, and whilst no explicit evidence against we never saw them in the goo baths ...

[genji2000]

ug ...

DID centurions resurrect? I see no evidence for, and whilst no explicit evidence against we never saw them in the goo baths ...

Me neither. To my knowledge it hasn't been revealed one way or the other, and there's nothing in the wiki (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Resurrection_%28RDM%29) to support either view.

I would guess that resurrection technology was developed alongside humanoid Cylons and that it applies only to them. Since it deals with a copy's consciousness, you could also suppose that mechanoid Cylons don't have a consciousness (or else why couldn't the facility be used for them?), although the use of the telencephalic inhibitor (that Natalie removes from her mechs) implies that they could 'learn' enough to develop a consciousness.

Regarding the Raiders' ability to resurrect, I'd guess that this was an opportunistic means of developing a single-episode storyline in Scar, and in retrospect I think it sits uncomfortably with the show's realism. If they choose to, I suppose they can explain it in 4.5.

It's interesting that our discussions are currently focusing on weaknesses in the Writers' use of resurrection technology: Neakal's not happy with the Hub's location in relation to the colonial fleet, Jabedoben's unhappy with the Cylons' failure to build another Hub (and I think we discussed this at the time of episode - I remember prattling on about DR at some point), and now we're wondering why Centurions (and for that matter, Heavy Raiders, Basestars, the Hub itself?) can't resurrect if Raiders can. These are all points we knew about when the show was being broadcast, but I guess we pretty much accepted them at the time, in anticipation of next week's episode.

We also know the Cylons developed some kind of regeneration technology for the Basestars. As for the Raiders, we know that they are more like animals than machines, so the mechanoid Cylons must just be simple machines, so resurrection technology can't be used on them. The difference between the two is more down to consciousness than meat I think.

[Neakal]

Has it been said that Heavy Raiders don't ressurect? I always took "Raider" to mean Raiders and Heavy Raiders.

As for Centurion ressurection, maybe it has to do with having an organic component which the Centurions were not shown to possess so far. It is odd though. Youd think the download of a fully mechanised being would be simpler.

[genji2000]

Has it been said that Heavy Raiders don't ressurect? I always took "Raider" to mean Raiders and Heavy Raiders.

No. It's only been said that humanoids and Raiders resurrect. The Heavy Raider looks like a ship though. Athena used one to rescue a fair number of resistance fighters in The Farm. Can they pilot themselves? I remember some reference to "these ships will be piloted by Cylons" or something in The Hub but that could easily mean "as opposed to Raiders" rather than "this time these ships will not pilot themselves".

As for Centurion ressurection, maybe it has to do with having an organic component which the Centurions were not shown to possess so far. It is odd though. Youd think the download of a fully mechanised being would be simpler.

I think it's more to do with the consciousness, which is, after all, the thing that downloads into a new hunk of meat. The Basestars are also organic but I wouldn't seriously suggest that they resurrect.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

The Heavy Raiders are manually operated and thus need pilots. (This was in "The Hub", and has been alluded to since "The Farm".) So do the Heavy Raiders resurrect? No.

Also, the Centurions don't resurrect. They are purely mechanical and don't need the goo bath.

[Neakal]

No. It's only been said that humanoids and Raiders resurrect. The Heavy Raider looks like a ship though. Athena used one to rescue a fair number of resistance fighters in The Farm. Can they pilot themselves? I remember some reference to "these ships will be piloted by Cylons" or something in The Hub but that could easily mean "as opposed to Raiders" rather than "this time these ships will not pilot themselves".

But Heavy Raiders too have a "dead" section similar to Centurions and Raiders down to the osciliating eye thingie and there were instances like in "Scattered" (and maybe the boarding of Pegasus in Razor) where the function they performed was not complicated and was partially suicidal. Yes a humanoid pilot could ressurect I guess. Plus they have an organic component (as we say in "Lay Down you Burdens") so I always took Heavy Raiders to be sentient or semi-sentient like regular Raiders. I assumed the pilots would only take over for complicated manouvers (dragging Vipers on their backs) or for vital missions when the pilot would not want to leave things to an AI (as it may have been the case in "The Farm"). But that is getting offtopic.

I think it's more to do with the consciousness, which is, after all, the thing that downloads into a new hunk of meat. The Basestars are also organic but I wouldn't seriously suggest that they resurrect.

By consciousness do you mean sentience? The centurions are definitely sentient at this point.

Also, the Centurions don't resurrect. They are purely mechanical and don't need the goo bath.

I'm not arguing it. I just would think it would be easier to retrieve or transmit information out of a dead mechanical body than a dead organic body provided the hard drive was not damaged.

[genji2000]

Well, I suspect this (http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?p=25155#post25155) explains it. Honestly. Maybe I'm turning all Timbo's-first-posts paranoid.

Can you elaborate on the "dead" section thing? I don't follow. The boarding scenes could just as easily have been performed by piloted aircraft, couldn't they? Mechanoids might be able to pilot Heavy Raiders too.

I missed the organic component of Heavy Raiders in Lay Down Your Burdens. Which part? Which scene? Even so, though, Basestars are also partly organic, but I assume they can't resurrect. Like I said, I don't think it's the meat part that dictates whether they can resurrect. I think there's a difference between a 'consciousness' and a true program. Yes, the Centurions can attain 'higher brain functions' without the telencephalic inhibitors, but that amounts to self-awareness, not 'consciousness'.

By 'consciousness' I don't mean 'sentience', no. The consciousness is the memory dump, not the algorithms that dictate how to process the memory dump. Sentience is that process.

[timbo]

I heard that. And I´m still paranoid. I´m just getting better at disguising it.

[genji2000]

It's not paranoia if they're really hiding the truth.

[Neakal]

Can you elaborate on the "dead" section thing? I don't follow. The boarding scenes could just as easily have been performed by piloted aircraft, couldn't they? Mechanoids might be able to pilot Heavy Raiders too.

I meant "head". I'm sure I had corrected that typo...:confused:

I missed the organic component of Heavy Raiders in Lay Down Your Burdens. Which part? Which scene?

Well the briefing to the Caprica rescue mission has Kara mention that they had been trying to figure the jump drives of the Heavy Raider Kara captured and she says that that problem has now been overcome, enter Sharon. Than on the scene with the Raptors beginning their jump, Sharon is attached to (similar to how she did in Flight of the Phoenix) an organ-like thing which which presumably came from the Heavy Raider.

Even so, though, Basestars are also partly organic, but I assume they can't resurrect. Like I said, I don't think it's the meat part that dictates whether they can resurrect. I think there's a difference between a 'consciousness' and a true program. Yes, the Centurions can attain 'higher brain functions' without the telencephalic inhibitors, but that amounts to self-awareness, not 'consciousness'.

By 'consciousness' I don't mean 'sentience', no. The consciousness is the memory dump, not the algorithms that dictate how to process the memory dump. Sentience is that process.


Originally Posted by Wikipedia http://www.battlestarforum.com/images/battlestar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?p=25153#post25153)
Consciousness has several alternative definitions. It has been defined loosely as a constellation of attributes of mind such as subjectivity, self-awareness, sentience, and the ability to perceive relationship between oneself and one's environment. It has been defined from a more biological and causal perspective as the act of autonomously modulating attentional and computational effort, usually with the goal of obtaining, retaining, or maximizing specific parameters (food, a safe environment, family, mates). Consciousness may involve thoughts, sensations, perceptions, moods, emotions, dreams, and an awareness of self, although not necessarily any particular one or combination of these

Ever since the inhibitor was removed, Centurions have been showing most, if not all of these signs. They display clearly that they are not only aware of what is going on, they are doing fully analysis of their surroundings (Remember the "Janitor" Centurion in "The Ties That Bind" who was clearly paying attention to the conversation) which amounts to "perceive relationship between oneself and one's environment" and the Centurion in Faith was literally startled along with everyone when the Hybrid began to yell instead of just standing there or displaying a standart defensive posture. We do not know why it shot that Eight but was clearly going "What do you think you're doing?" before the Hybrid began to yell. And they show an actual and premeditated effort with their actions as well. Again, "The Ties that Bind" sees a Centurion consciously ignore orders until Natalie uses the "magic word" to empahasize that they are no longer mindless automatons. So, unless I am being really thick in understanding the concept, they are showing consciousness. Yet we saw absolutely no indicator that by gaining consciousness they also gained the ability to download. Infact, I am going to argue that they would be against the destruction of the Hub if they gained that ability.

Granted there was little time past between the removal of the inhibitor and the destruction of the Hub, but if Gina's reaction (she knew the ship was destroyed despite being in the cell the moment it was destroyed) in "Ressurection Ship II" is any indicator to Cylons realising ressurection is avilable or not than the Centurions would have fairly sure whether they can or can't download by the time they met the Colonials. And as I said, we saw no indicator they gained the ability by gaining consciousness.

[genji2000]

... on the scene with the Raptors beginning their jump, Sharon is attached to (similar to how she did in Flight of the Phoenix) an organ-like thing which which presumably came from the Heavy Raider.

Maybe they utilise organic components because they're faster than electronic ones? I still think the whole 'Raiders resurrecting' thing was a convenience contrived for Scar.

... unless I am being really thick in understanding the concept, they are showing consciousness. Yet we saw absolutely no indicator that by gaining consciousness they also gained the ability to download. Infact, I am going to argue that they would be against the destruction of the Hub if they gained that ability.

Well, the dictionary definition is fine to discuss what consciousness is, but 'a consciousness' is a label applied to the memory dump that takes place when a Cylon uploads. When they use the phrase "my consciousness will transfer to a new body," I don't think it means self-awareness or sentience; it means the collection of memories that when downloaded and manipulated by the algorithms built into the body's OS provides sentience. Maybe it should be capitalised: "my Consciousness".

Granted there was little time past between the removal of the inhibitor and the destruction of the Hub, but if Gina's reaction (she knew the ship was destroyed despite being in the cell the moment it was destroyed) in "Ressurection Ship II" is any indicator to Cylons realising ressurection is avilable or not

I suspect Cylons who are familiar with the resurrection process can sense when the facility is available - they may be aware that uploading is taking place. I wonder if the resurrection database can read the Consciousness and alert the Cylon fleet to the predicament of the copy - whether the Cylons knew how Gina was being treated?

Boomer may also have had those sensations during her uploads, but, not being aware that she was a Cylon, interpreted them as PMT or something.

than the Centurions would have fairly sure whether they can or can't download by the time they met the Colonials. And as I said, we saw no indicator they gained the ability by gaining consciousness.

Well, resurrection is a technological facility, so "the ability" to resurrect would require a whole technological infrastructure to enable it.

[spottedtan]

I am willing to bet we haven't seen the end to the "resurrection" question yet.

I agree. RDM has proven time and again he is able and willing to throw monkey wrenches in theories out there. I wouldn't be a bit surpised if he does it again.

[timbo]

I agree. RDM has proven time and again he is able and willing to throw monkey wrenches in theories out there. I wouldn't be a bit surpised if he does it again.

Do you have anything in mind? Maybe the humans learn to resurrect as well, something like this?

[genji2000]

Well Jesus managed it.

[stavrosg]

Maybe they utilise organic components because they're faster than electronic ones? I still think the whole 'Raiders resurrecting' thing was a convenience contrived for Scar.

The reasons outlined in scar are very reasonable, I think, and given the metal shells they have, it is even unnessecary to use the goo baths for anything but the humanoid cylons in the resurrection proccess.

Since they did have the technology, why not apply it everywhere they can?