New Idea for Final Cylon... Cavil!

[lastlizard]

Hi folks,

I am new to this site so I just thought I would throw a strange idea out there about the final cylon, but it does have evidence even though it seems odd even to me and no one has put him forward as a candidate that I know of.

The final cylon is Cavel.

Why? as follows....

1.In the tags at the begining of each episode of season four its states "One will be revealed" as in number one, not one "is yet" to be revealed.

2. In the third episode of season four when Cavel in reborn after being shot, Boomer dresses him in white towels just as the final five are dressed in the opera house, he is a spitting image.

3. Later in the same episode Apollo brings up Roselyns secret agenda "1,12", note this is not reffered to as one hundred and twelve or one one 2 but as one twelve, as 1 one of twelve. This wh0le agenda is about transferring power to the presedent.

4. As we all know D'anna is sorry when she sees the final cylon in her vision, thats because Balter just shot Cavel in the back , or somthing similar, in the temple of the five, not to mention they hate each others guts.

5. Why the hell is Cavel so adament on not seeking out the final five and not reserecting D'anna and why box her in the first place, becuase he knows damn well she has seen his face.

Finally, I know this is odd as it would mean there are only 11 models but maybe the final cylon is a red herring, could it be that the final cylon is a sleeper within the cylons just as one of the other posts states Boomer could be?

I have only just watched the first three episodes of season four again this evening, but I am going to work my way through the others to see if anything ekse supports it. It will be interesting to re watch the scene when cavel disconects D'anna.

[genji2000]

Cavel... begining... its states... Cavel in reborn... Roselyn... reffered... wh0le... presedent... somthing... adament... reserecting... becuase... ekse... re watch... disconects.

What?

If Cavil's a One, how can he be one of the Final Five? How can one model be two models?

[lastlizard]

How can Boomer be? People don't seem to have problem with that.

[genji2000]

How can Boomer be? People don't seem to have problem with that.

Boomer's a Seven, not an Eight.

[Maxey]

Boomer's a Seven, not an Eight.
Wha? She's a model eight! Don't start changing the canon as you see fit.

[jabedoben]

Congratulations for not getting anally raped for mis-spelling Cavil!

[Maxey]

I think that these theories that one of the well established Cylon models is the Final Cylon are too far-fetched and don't make sense at all. In fact I feel it would be pretty anti-climatic if one of the S7 would be the Final One.

Besides, D'Anna killed a Cavil when she was reborn on "The Hub" episode.

[genji2000]

Wha? She's a model eight! Don't start changing the canon as you see fit.

We think she's an Eight, and so do the Cylons (and for that matter the colonials), but if she's the Final Cylon she can't be an Eight because the Eight model is one of the S7.

[Maxey]

And that's why it doesn't make any sense. Why would they create an exact copy of an number eight as one of the F5?

[Prolescum]

Waah? so, (just because I'm not sure,) are the FF designated with model numbers somewhere? Could you point me to where this is or where this is/has being/been debated?
D'Anna definitely did kill Cavil so I can't see how this idea fits.
I think it's Zarek anyway as he was the original Apollo who had disappeared from the fleet by the 80's (to found 'New
Kobol') and discovered some advanced 'lizard-Cylon' technology, extended his life and thereby corrupting his humanity. After the initial revolt against his regime, he spent time in contemplation until the idea dawned on him that he needed to 'redeem' himself in the eyes his people and decides to start at the bottom fighting injustice, putting right what once went wrong etc. In the mean-time, the 'new' cylon race flees its oppressors and comes across a planet with 'lizard-Cylon' tech. It becomes apparent that the technology cannot be used by machines, so the cylons build the human-cylons to interface with it and learn its abilities. They discover a number of things about their origin and the one who would be above all others, and mis-interpret his words written down during the time of the revolt... this has happened before and it will happen again.
Actually, I just made that up and it's not him either.
Sorry.

[genji2000]

Waah? so, (just because I'm not sure,) are the FF designated with model numbers somewhere? Could you point me to where this is or where this is/has being/been debated?

Sorry, 'Seven' is used only to explain that Boomer (individually, i.e. that copy) is not an Eight. The F5 don't actually have model numbers, but to say she's a Seven is easier than going into the explanation of why she's fundamentally different to the other Eights.

D'Anna definitely did kill Cavil so I can't see how this idea fits.

I think it's Zarek anyway as he was the original Apollo who had disappeared from the fleet by the 80's (to found 'New Kobol') and discovered some advanced 'lizard-Cylon' technology, extended his life and thereby corrupting his humanity. After the initial revolt against his regime, he spent time in contemplation until the idea dawned on him that he needed to 'redeem' himself in the eyes his people and decides to start at the bottom fighting injustice, putting right what once went wrong etc. In the mean-time, the 'new' cylon race flees its oppressors and comes across a planet with 'lizard-Cylon' tech. It becomes apparent that the technology cannot be used by machines, so the cylons build the human-cylons to interface with it and learn its abilities. They discover a number of things about their origin and the one who would be above all others, and mis-interpret his words written down during the time of the revolt... this has happened before and it will happen again.
Actually, I just made that up and it's not him either.
Sorry.

No, that's good. I was trying to see your point of view till the end there. Nice one.

[Prolescum]

Glad that's clear, I thought I'd missed some fundamentals for a minute... Thanks.
Does anyone think that the 'all this happened before...' might refer back to the original show?

[genji2000]

Glad that's clear, I thought I'd missed some fundamentals for a minute... Thanks.
Does anyone think that the 'all this happened before...' might refer back to the original show?

It's been touted as a possibility - that TOS is actually canon to the RDM version.

[timbo]

Genji, If you really think Boomer is the last, you should think about that why question some more, because Boomer´s dead body definitely acted as a transmitter to the living Sharon on Kobol. I am sure this is important, but I can´t put my finger on why.

[TAZ-99]

I really don't think that the end or reveal of the 12th cylon model will be so lame.

At least I hope not.

However as I do like to play devils advocate from time to time...

Suppose that the final cylon has been killed - and with no copy to download too - downloaded to the body of one of the other models?

Or - that final cylon who had no body to download too became Head 6, Head Baltar or Head Elosha?

The one that Deanna apologized too has not been confirmed to be the last model so could be any of the 4 already revealed.

The final model had a body we would know but died and just borrowed another empty body.

This theory takes me back to Ellen being the final and she is possibly pigging backing on Caprica 6's Shell - or worse - on Sauls.

:thumbsup:

[TAZ-99]

Genji, If you really think Boomer is the last, you should think about that why question some more, because Boomer´s dead body definitely acted as a transmitter to the living Sharon on Kobol. I am sure this is important, but I can´t put my finger on why.



I got the impression when Athena downloaded to rescue Hera that any cylon downloading has a moment where they can choose or not to share their memories with the goo. She indicated that she could resist this step.

Likely since Boomer was a sleeper she would have no idea what to expect - in fact a sleeper may have no choice as part of the sleeper program to ensure that the Cylons are debriefed on the Sleepers missions.

Explains how Athena suddenly had the sense that she had been on Galactica and knew everyone as Boomer had.

:thumbsup:

[Wouter]

Genji, If you really think Boomer is the last, you should think about that why question some more, because Boomer´s dead body definitely acted as a transmitter to the living Sharon on Kobol. I am sure this is important, but I can´t put my finger on why.
I don't think so, more like it was a screwup of the writers. Wasn't it said later, in a podcast or interview, that Athena was responding to Adama's "why" in the miniseries? That was probably not what was intended in the episode with the way it was edited, but I guess they hadn't thought out the Cylon memory sharing thing very well yet.

[Wouter]

I got the impression when Athena downloaded to rescue Hera that any cylon downloading has a moment where they can choose or not to share their memories with the goo. She indicated that she could resist this step.

She did indicate that, but it turns out she couldn't - as Helo finds out in "The hub".

Boomer certainly periodically must have uploaded data to the Cylon network, while she was a sleeper agent. This without even realising it.

[genji2000]

Genji, If you really think Boomer is the last, you should think about that why question some more, because Boomer´s dead body definitely acted as a transmitter to the living Sharon on Kobol. I am sure this is important, but I can´t put my finger on why.

Gods, I don't know. If I suspend my extreme disbelief in a standard Eight corpse (even one that carried the consciousness of the Final Cylon) being able to transmit live action to a standard Eight consciousness then I could understand why Caprica Sharon picked that up. Having made up her mind to take the rocky road into the colonial fleet and turn her back on the Cylons then maybe as the first pregnant Cylon and mother of the future of humanity it was necessary for her to receive some insight into the state of mind of the key players in the unfolding drama of the apocalypse.

With the information we have available I don't believe there's any way to explain the nature of that transmission, though. It's just a corpse.

I don't think there's any answer in "and you ask why."

If I remember my first viewing correctly, I wasn't quite on top of what the Cylons were and what they could do, so as much as it didn't seem to fit with what I did know, I was sort of open to the possibility that they could read humans' thoughts in a way, and that Caprica Sharon had got that from Adama's mind. Obviously that didn't come to pan out but I wonder if the Writers at that stage maybe had in the back of their minds some kind of similar possibility (I mean, transferring consciousness to a Resurrection Ship is not a million miles from this), wrote that line, and then dropped the idea.

Next possibility is that it was another example of the Writers speaking directly to the audience as a comment on Adama and mankind. They do this in the show but very infrequently and it's not really a feature of the show.

Boomer's body is not any kind of transmitter, I'm convinced of that, but mainly because that corpse is not in any way aware of Adama's presence by its side. Also, if Caprica Sharon does not have Boomer's death memories (or those of shooting Adama), then how can she have any post-death memories? And if you mean that Boomer's corpse is not aware but is operating like a remote webcam or radio, then there's no suggestion of this elsewhere in the show. Even if that were the case, Caprica Sharon is already on the run by this stage, and unlikely to be privy to Cylon information.

However, I accept that Caprica Sharon scarpers in Kara's Raider before Boomer shoots Adama, and returns to the Caprica resistance force in a Heavy Raider just after Cally shoots Boomer (and uses the Heavy Raider to rescue Kara from the Farm just as Adama is in the morgue chatting to Boomer's corpse). What Caprica Sharon did in those missing days is unknown, but she's always been a bit mysterious. From what happened subsequently with her character I don't think it's likely that she colluded with the Cylons in any way, or that they gave her a Heavy Raider. Maybe this will be addressed in 4.5 or the new movie.

Caprica Sharon is also clearly surprised to learn of Boomer's death and she'd surely know of it if she knew in any way about Adama asking the corpse "why?"

Caprica Sharon is definitely not answering Adama's Miniseries question, which was "Why are we as a people worth saving?" because by grabbing her throat and pinning her down he's not showing why we're worth saving.

I wonder if (from the Writer's perspective) she's somehow presaging his later question, "why do the Cylons hate us so much?" That question may be what Adama is asking the corpse, rather than the obvious "why did you betray me?"

The problem of Caprica Sharon's "and you ask why" doesn't disappear if Boomer is the Final Cylon. The body (Boomer's corpse) is still an Eight body, and in death is no different to any other Eight. How would a body that has carried the consciousness of one of the Final Five, once that consciousness has departed the body, be capable of transmitting live events to the consciousness of an Eight (i.e. not one of the Final Five)? It's a dead Cylon, just like any other dead Cylon.

[Zod]

Congratulations for not getting anally raped for mis-spelling Cavil!

Quite possibly the funniest thing I have ever read in my life, cheers, you have made my day, jabedoben!!:p

[Prolescum]

It's been touted as a possibility - that TOS is actually canon to the RDM version.

That's so exciting.
And disturbing.

Cheers, that's got me pondering...

[genji2000]

That's so exciting.
And disturbing.

Cheers, that's got me pondering...

One day somebody is going to ask you about your avatar. You should start preparing responses now.

[Prolescum]

There's only one rule, comedy has no boundaries.
It was at my sister's wedding...
I nicked it off my girlfriend.
It was given to me by a mysterious stranger who told me I had power above and beyond the normal man, and I became a vigilante.
It's not me in the picture.
It's not me in the picture.
Someone emailed it to me at work.
I had no wish to break any copyright laws.
It's my sister.
It's my mum.
Oh, that old thing...?
Join www.sexydarthvaderincomedyposes.com now!
etc...
Should I change it?

[Prolescum]

Hee hee, don't click the link, I didn't know it was automatic; it leads nowhere.
honestly.

[genji2000]

There's only one rule, comedy has no boundaries.
It was at my sister's wedding...
I nicked it off my girlfriend.
It was given to me by a mysterious stranger who told me I had power above and beyond the normal man, and I became a vigilante.
It's not me in the picture.
It's not me in the picture.
Someone emailed it to me at work.
I had no wish to break any copyright laws.
It's my sister.
It's my mum.
Oh, that old thing...?
Join www.sexydarthvaderincomedyposes.com now!
etc...
Should I change it?

I think you just found your second home.

[Prolescum]

I think you just found your second home.

Sweet.

[Prolescum]

just realised I should have capitalised (capitalized?) sexydarthvaderINCOMEdyposes.com that would've been funny...
Gorramit!

[timbo]

Congratulations for not getting anally raped for mis-spelling Cavil!

Listen, if you drop the soap, you pay the price, just the way mother nature intended.

[pagad]

Boomer's a Seven, not an Eight.

ARGH

[genji2000]

XO of the Bellerophon

ARGH!