Act Of Contrition (Rewatch)

[bazzyb]

Opinions, ideas, thoughts etc are welcome

[genji2000]

Loving it, loving it, loving it. I might have lost faith after Bastille Day, much as I enjoyed the episode, but Act of Contrition nailed BSG for me. I never looked back after this episode. The human drama displayed here is what I hope Caprica is all about. Later, in Season Two, Adama will tell Caprica Sharon that he "doesn't do guilt", but guilt is rife throughout the fleet, throughout the series. The guilt is what hooked me on this show and this episode and Adama's Miniseries retirement speech are the foundation of my obsession.

As an officer or a manager, or a parent or a brother, it's so hard to to deal with staff or family objectively without allowing your personal angst to influence your actions.

I loved the way the end of the episode was pre-visualised throughout.

It also really defined Kara's character, I thought, and Adama's "walk out of this cabin while you still can" displayed astonishing human frailty. There's no way that guy is the Final Cylon, despite the tone of Tigh's Sometimes A Great Notion "you're the Fifth."

Top marks from me.

[stavrosg]

I just saw it, too.
You can't really say that much. The story just begins to unfold, the cylons are distant and mysterious, and we need to learn more about our main characters.

We see that the rift between Lee and Bill Adama is starting to close (but will never fully heal) , but the bulk of the episode is just Starbuck, Starbuck and Starbuck. And I love it.

[genji2000]

I just saw it, too.
You can't really say that much. The story just begins to unfold, the cylons are distant and mysterious, and we need to learn more about our main characters.

We see that the rift between Lee and Bill Adama is starting to close (but will never fully heal) , but the bulk of the episode is just Starbuck, Starbuck and Starbuck. And I love it.

The bulk, yes, but while Kara is confessing to Adama, you hear his breathing getting heavier and heavier as he's struggling to control himself... magic on screen.

[Wouter]

I loved the way the end of the episode was pre-visualised throughout.

It also really defined Kara's character, I thought, and Adama's "walk out of this cabin while you still can" displayed astonishing human frailty. There's no way that guy is the Final Cylon, despite the tone of Tigh's Sometimes A Great Notion "you're the Fifth."

Great ep, I agree. Loved the way it was building on the mini, and the way it played out, among others with the famous "2 funerals" piece (a great track by Mccreary).

While I absolutely don't think Adama is the final Cylon (let there be some actual humans, please), by itself it means nothing that he is very human in his responses. Tigh and Tyrol have had similar moments. The difference between Cylon emotions and human emotions seems very small (especially since the Dylan Four + Boomer were written as humans for at least some time, and a very long time in the case of Tigh).

[pagad]

The bulk, yes, but while Kara is confessing to Adama, you hear his breathing getting heavier and heavier as he's struggling to control himself... magic on screen.

Adama's face in those moments is just pure EJO brilliance.

[Neakal]

One of my favourite episodes as well and one of the most "human" episodes that fully deal with emotions and the impact of death, both present and past. Something more about the next episodes but I really enjoyed how the seemingly-one-shot characters like the nuggets stayed and became part of the series, letting us see how they learned to fly Vipers, becoming really good at doing so and dying.

Something that made me curious about this episode is about the shelter Helo and the (soon-to-be) Athena. Did the Cylons build the place or did they kill the original occupiers? I always took Sharon's somewhat guilty expression after Helo says "Some poor sod goes through all that trouble building a shelter. Food. Radiation Medication. What happens to him?" as an indicator of the latter. Any thoughts?

And one last comment, I am absolutely in love with the beginning and ending sequences of this episodes. Something about Flattop getting killed in what would be a really happy moment always struck sad to me. And the music is fitting.

The ending sequence with Starbuck falling to the planet I probably watched more times than the episode itself. There is something really serene, peaceful and yet sadly climactic feel about that whole sequence. I was really sad to realise that the soundtrack only had the music as far as the point Starbuck shoots the last Raider and none of the song when shes crashing.

[genji2000]

Something that made me curious about this episode is about the shelter Helo and the (soon-to-be) Athena. Did the Cylons build the place or did they kill the original occupiers? I always took Sharon's somewhat guilty expression after Helo says "Some poor sod goes through all that trouble building a shelter. Food. Radiation Medication. What happens to him?" as an indicator of the latter. Any thoughts?

Good question, but the answer's open to personal interpretation I suppose. I took Sharon's hesitation to be her wondering whether Helo was too suspicious for the plan to work, because I guessed that the supplies and the transponder were rigged up by the Cylons. It's a restaurant in Caprica City, isn't it? The town is completely deserted, but there are very few bodies, which means the Cylons have cleaned the place up. In the next episode the Cylons attack, but only take Sharon, leaving Helo behind to see what his reaction will be and try to determine whether he loves her or not, so I think the whole thing including the transponder is a set up.

The ending sequence with Starbuck falling to the planet I probably watched more times than the episode itself. There is something really serene, peaceful and yet sadly climactic feel about that whole sequence. I was really sad to realise that the soundtrack only had the music as far as the point Starbuck shoots the last Raider and none of the song when shes crashing.

Not sure what you mean there. My copy has the music continue to the final shot of her falling face down into the clouds.

[Neakal]

Good question, but the answer's open to personal interpretation I suppose. I took Sharon's hesitation to be her wondering whether Helo was too suspicious for the plan to work, because I guessed that the supplies and the transponder were rigged up by the Cylons. It's a restaurant in Caprica City, isn't it? The town is completely deserted, but there are very few bodies, which means the Cylons have cleaned the place up. In the next episode the Cylons attack, but only take Sharon, leaving Helo behind to see what his reaction will be and try to determine whether he loves her or not, so I think the whole thing including the transponder is a set up.

Not sure what you mean there. My copy has the music continue to the final shot of her falling face down into the clouds.

It's not Caprica City. Caprica City by now is a crater on the ground :) But otherwise your assessment is agreeable. Was just wondering if anyone else had the same feel.

As for the soundtrack, really? In my copy, "Starbuck Takes on All Eight" cuts at the moment she shoots the last Raider. All other songs from Act of Contrition/You Can't Go Home Again have parts that resemble ("Forgiven") it but not the segment where she is falling into the Red Moon. And its the Original Soundtrack not some downloaded cheap copy.

[Shadow Rider]

You can thank this show for the continued dark tone of BSG...RDM stated that the studio was asking him to include something happy like a birthday party and he decided to include the fuck-up with the missile that kills all those pilots, and apparently they never tried to make the show "happier" again. =P

[northtwilight]

This episode, for me, was the real proof that RDM made the right decision to not only cast Starbuck as a woman, but have Sackhoff be the actress.

My first reaction on seeing it all those years ago is the same every time -- 'Damn, that woman can act.'

[Zod]

Me too, Sackhoff really went up a level during this episode and has kept it up ever since. I completely forgot about Benedict's Starbuck after this episode, Sackhoff IS Starbuck.

A classic episode, those early season 1 episodes were all great, I still get a tingle watching them.

[genji2000]

It's not Caprica City. Caprica City by now is a crater on the ground :) But otherwise your assessment is agreeable. Was just wondering if anyone else had the same feel.

Not exactly a crater - the Cylons settle there for a while and restore it - but it did take a knock. Most of its buildings are still standing (montage at the beginning of Downloaded), but the overlays don't tell us Helo and Sharon are in Caprica City. I just took it to be because of the shots when the Five, Six and Sharon are watching Helo from a nearby rooftop in Litmus, surrounded by skyscrapers, and the location Helo starts off from on Caprica, close enough for Baltar to reach on foot from his house (though we don't know if that was in Caprica City or further down the coast).

I was really sad to realise that the soundtrack only had the music as far as the point Starbuck shoots the last Raider and none of the song when shes crashing.
Not sure what you mean there. My copy has the music continue to the final shot of her falling face down into the clouds.
As for the soundtrack, really? In my copy, "Starbuck Takes on All Eight" cuts at the moment she shoots the last Raider. All other songs from Act of Contrition/You Can't Go Home Again have parts that resemble ("Forgiven") it but not the segment where she is falling into the Red Moon. And its the Original Soundtrack not some downloaded cheap copy.

Not really. I thought you meant the accompanying soundtrack in the episode, not the OST CD, so I was referring to the episode. Sorry to get your hopes up. :) Nice piece of music that. Pity it's not on the CD.

[Wouter]

Genji, that city that the Cylons settle for a while is Delphi (where Starbuck and Boomer happened to live), not Caprica City. Delphi seems to be kind of a religious center on Caprica (the planet). Caprica City itself, the capital, indeed probably was a gaping crater.

[genji2000]

Well, if that's right I never realised it. I know Sharon and Helo make the trip from wherever they are now to Delphi to try to find a ship to get off Caprica.

The opening montage of Downloaded shows a city (damaged, but not destroyed) very like the one in the opening sequence, which I always took to be Caprica City. Can you confirm which is which?

Neakal, I stand corrected. So the town Helo and Sharon are in in this episode is just an unnamed town somewhere between Caprica City and Delphi? Or possibly Helo wandered far from Caprica City before Sharon hooked up with him?

[Wouter]

Can't confirm the visual aspects - it may well be as you say, they're the same and it was meant to be Caprica-city in the mini. However, from the script it's quite clear that the damaged but still mostly intact city was Delphi - it was explicitly mentioned that the Cylons had spared it ("they have a major hub there" - Athena to Helo) and the arrow of Apollo was also supposed to be there.

See the excellent article on this very site: http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Delphi

[genji2000]

Can't confirm the visual aspects - it may well be as you say, they're the same and it was meant to be Caprica-city in the mini. However, from the script it's quite clear that the damaged but still mostly intact city was Delphi - it was explicitly mentioned that the Cylons had spared it ("they have a major hub there" - Athena to Helo) and the arrow of Apollo was also supposed to be there.

See the excellent article on this very site: http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Delphi

Yep I'm on it. I suppose colonial architecture would be similar city to city so Delphi may well look like Caprica City from the overhead shot we got at the start of Downloaded. I feel foolish for not having realised that the Cylons settled in Delphi (sorry Neakal), but excited to find another aspect to explore. I realised Delphi was intact because Sharon and Helo headed there to find a ship, and the museum there housed the Arrow of Apollo, but didn't absorb the full meaning of that, which was that Caprica City had in contrast been utterly destroyed. Another oversight caused by racing through the episodes eight-at-a-time I suppose. The rewatch will be an eye-opener for me in many respects.

So, one of the holes in my understanding is Helo's movements. Caprica City and Delphi are apparently "in the same general region", but it took Helo and Sharon weeks to reach Delphi from wherever they are in Act of Contrition. What's your opinion?

And also, regarding Downloaded, Caprica Six's memories happened "9 months ago", and I assume her resurrection happened pretty soon afterwards. I take the nine month gap to be between the attack on the colonies/Caprica Six's resurrection and Boomer's resurrection. But D'Anna (I think it's D'Anna because she talks about getting used to her body) asks Caprica Six to work with Boomer very soon after Caprica Six is resurrected (when she's also still getting used to her body), therefore when Boomer has already been resurrected. What's the timeline for all that?

[Wouter]

It's been a while since I watched "Downloaded", but I think the 9 month already included a couple of months or so after Boomer had downloaded. She had already had time to move to her old apartment (and to restore it to some extent, presumably), and be bothered by a succession of Cylon attempts to get her out of it again. I guess Cap-6 needed a lot of time to get used to her body?

As for Caprica-city and Delphi being "in the same general region", well, a "region" can be small or large - it all depends on what you call a region. There's lots of leeway here as far as the actual distance goes.

Athena and Helo were going on foot and had to avoid Cylon patrols, and presumably places where the nukes had struck (due to the extra high radiation levels).

[genji2000]

It's been a while since I watched "Downloaded", but I think the 9 month already included a couple of months or so after Boomer had downloaded. She had already had time to move to her old apartment (and to restore it to some extent, presumably), and be bothered by a succession of Cylon attempts to get her out of it again. I guess Cap-6 needed a lot of time to get used to her body?

lol. I think the whole 'getting used to a new body' thing was really awkward. They should have just not mentioned it at all.

So you think it took them nine months to get around to resurrecting Caprica Six (i.e. nine months to get used to a body doesn't wash)? When I watched Downloaded during the marathon viewing I remember this being confusing. Who resurrected first (Caprica Six according to the narrative)? How long between them (got to assume nine-ish months)? I just accepted it because I supposed I didn't understand Cylon society and I wanted to get on with the next episode. You say a couple of months, but I just put it down to them being different and read it as a couple of days. But why would it take them so long to resurrect Caprica Six? Fanwanking, is it possible they intended to keep her 'on ice' but because of Boomer's waywardness they decided she was the best option to get Boomer back on message (I feel another thread-hijack coming on)?

As for Caprica-city and Delphi being "in the same general region", well, a "region" can be small or large - it all depends on what you call a region. There's lots of leeway here as far as the actual distance goes.

Yes but a couple of months? Even on foot and even if their regions were like US states, you could walk a couple in two months. Look at Forrest Gump. Densely populated areas like Caprica City and Delphi are generally very small, regionally speaking. I mean - Belgium's an entire country.

Athena and Helo were going on foot and had to avoid Cylon patrols, and presumably places where the nukes had struck (due to the extra high radiation levels).

I wish they'd just give us a map, like Tolkien did.

[Wouter]

When I watched it I got the impression that Caprica-6 downloaded shortly after her death (so, she apparently is really, really, really slow in this "getting used to a new body" thing), or at least not months after that. I may not have payed very close attention to the details though, I was absorbed in the story...

Boomer must then have downloaded a number of months later, because she spent something like 3-4 months in the RTF before she got shot, I think. Presumably she downloaded shortly after that (it's not like the downloading machinery would be doing overtime at that point, there was no major Cylon disaster at that time). So, that would be some 4 to 6 months that Boomer had been among the cylons before we get to the point where Cap-6 comes knocking at her door?

[genji2000]

The Wiki is unclear on this. Boomer was apparently shot 53 days after the attack on the colonies (when Caprica Six died), and resurrected some time after that.

It reckons Caprica Six is resurrected "soon after" her death.

The conversation between the Three and Caprica Six took place very soon after her resurrection. 'Getting used to her new body' notwithstanding, she is still very newly out in Cylon society (the Five comes up to congratulate her, the Eights and Sixes eye her up like a celebrity) and yet Boomer has been resurrected for a while.

So either Caprica Six is kept on ice and not resurrected until the Cylons think she'd be useful in dealing with Boomer, or the timeline is all wrong, as with a lot of Season Two.

Either way - nine months, or 53 days? It can't be both.

[Wouter]

Strange. They may not have paid proper attention to the timeline, then.

It's clear that the intention from the episode is that Boomer has been resurrected for quite some time already when Caprica-6 meets her. The part about Cap-6 being newly resurrected at the same time doesn't seem to add up.

[genji2000]

Strange. They may not have paid proper attention to the timeline, then.

It's clear that the intention from the episode is that Boomer has been resurrected for quite some time already when Caprica-6 meets her. The part about Cap-6 being newly resurrected at the same time doesn't seem to add up.

Yes. Like I said, I just accepted it all first time round, not really understanding what Cylons were or how they operated, and racing through episodes, but there's something amiss here. Even if we accept that they just messed up the timeline, it would be nice to think that the new movie will retcon the whole thing and make it plausible. Or do you think we should just accept it as dramatic licence?

[Wouter]

Yes, probably just a mistake. According to Aaron Douglas, the movie will be set in S1 (though could he include the miniseries in that?), so not during "Downloaded".

[genji2000]

Yes, probably just a mistake. According to Aaron Douglas, the movie will be set in S1 (though could he include the miniseries in that?), so not during "Downloaded".

Doesn't mean they couldn't refer to Caprica Six being kept on ice for whatever reason.

[Stairway]

Shouldn't the poll have an option for "Possibly the best episode ever?" as well as the worst?

[westie]

I watched 'Downloaded' fairly recently, and although I'm paraphrasing I'm pretty sure the captions during the episodes went:
(from the last present-day episode which was 'The Captain's Hand')
"9 months ago" - Caprica-6 resurrects
"10 weeks later" - Boomer resurrects
then "present day: Caprica" - Downloaded storyline
"present day: Battlestar Galactica" - Galactica storyline i.e. Athena gives birth to Hera

[westie]

p.s. I got the feeling that the whole 'getting used to this new body thing' was something Caprica-6 came up with off the fly because she was touching Head-Baltar when D'Anna interrupted her, and needed a quick and somewhat logical explanation for her position, and also a realistic but not truthful answer to D'Anna's "How's it going?"

[Shadow Rider]

Why does it have to be the physical aspect of getting used to her new body? It could just be the mental aspect of being someone else. All of the bodies are exactly the same anyway.

[bazzyb]

Shouldn't the poll have an option for "Possibly the best episode ever?" as well as the worst?

Yes, although it was slightly tongue-in-cheek to include 'worst ever' as I didn't think anyone would pick it:). But seriously maybe we should ensure that all 'episode rewatch' polls have the same options so as to ensure consistency.

[Wouter]

p.s. I got the feeling that the whole 'getting used to this new body thing' was something Caprica-6 came up with off the fly because she was touching Head-Baltar when D'Anna interrupted her, and needed a quick and somewhat logical explanation for her position, and also a realistic but not truthful answer to D'Anna's "How's it going?"
That's probably the best explanation, as she got the "new" body 9 months ago then, according to the captions you provided.

So, Boomer was about 6 months among the Cylons, most of the time alone in her apartment (I suppose she first got a kind of Cylon initiation and check-up before she was allowed to go anywhere on her own), before Cap-6 visited her.

[Neakal]

Indeed, Westie's explanation seems to fit best. Also, depends on how long Caprica Six had her body before the Miniseries. I believe new bodies can be like artificial transplants, it takes some people much longer than others to make their peace with them.

And Genji, no problem man. I've been curious about that city as well since it looks so cool and I love that shot with the lone raider flying over the dead city. Initially I had thought it was Delphi but Delphi seems to lack a clear skyline. Most information I can find on them is the link below which includes the place Helo and Soon-to-be Athena hid and the destroyed city you mentioned. http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Unnamed_cities_of_Caprica

[samjmiller]

... honestly, who can imagine a more fabulous fate?

[timbo]

... honestly, who can imagine a more fabulous fate?

Not Genji or Zod. There would be bars of soap all over the place.

[genji2000]

Not Genji or Zod. There would be bars of soap all over the place.

Are you insinuating something?

[timbo]

Are you insinuating something?

Only that you are both fastidious about personal hygiene, while Helo also looks like he showers regularly.

[timbo]

I just watched Act of Contrition, and once again did not really see anything new.
I have a few questions though. First, I always thought that Lee and Kara had never actually made love, but someone on the forum said they have. Is this true?
Secondly, what is that phot that all the pilots touch when they go into the briefing room?

[Neakal]

Kara was with Zak Adama (Lee's brother) till he died and Lee had been engaged to Gianne for an undetermined amount of time, till she got nuked. So they both had their own relationships prior to the attack. It seems the friendship between Kara and Lee became sour after Zak died judging how Kara sided with William while Lee accused him of Zak's death. This can further be seen in the photograph of Zak, Lee and Kara in Kara's locker. Lee in that picture is folded and hidden away till the Miniseries. So, no. By `Act of Contrition`, they most likely had not had sex with eachother though there was evidently a tension. And they will not have sex until New Caprica which we see in Unfinished Business.

As for that photograph in pilot ready room: http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Lest_we_forget

[stavrosg]

First, I always thought that Lee and Kara had never actually made love, but someone on the forum said they have. Is this true?
They will do in New Caprica. At this point, their relationship is still awkward, if not troubled.
Secondly, what is that phot that all the pilots touch when they go into the briefing room?
It is a picture taken the day of the attacks on Aerelon. More on the wiki (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Lest_We_Forget).

[genji2000]

I just watched Act of Contrition, and once again did not really see anything new.
I have a few questions though. First, I always thought that Lee and Kara had never actually made love, but someone on the forum said they have. Is this true?

http://www.battlestarforum.com/showpost.php?p=19176&postcount=16

[timbo]

Thanks guys. One thing, did they actually ....do it, yknow (giggles) all the way? Cos I thought they seemed to always stop short for some reason.

And where is the 20 questions about yourself thing that bluce started?

[genji2000]

Thanks guys. One thing, did they actually ....do it, yknow (giggles) all the way? Cos I thought they seemed to always stop short for some reason.

And where is the 20 questions about yourself thing that bluce started?

Haven't you seen Unfinished Business? Yes, all the way.

Blucey's gay getting to know you thread (http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=1577)

[genji2000]

Wiki questions:

Why does Galactica's doctor, Major Cottle, smoke, knowing full well the medical implications of cigarette smoking?