1 slice of sci-fi please, hold the mustard

[Batman316]

Ok so I am just curious what peoples thoughts are regarding the 'best' sci-fi.

What is it that these shows have that others don't?
Do we want realism? aliens? drama? action?
Do we want lines of techno babble? shows that have a build in 'reset' clause?
Is the 'heroes journey' a must?

Personally I think that BSG have the formula as close to perfect as possible. Not to say that shows like B5 arn't extremely good but I think by taking the Aliens out of the equation RDM has stumbled onto something....

Anyway it's just a curious thing.

If you take the aliens out of Star Wars could it still have worked?
Star Trek minus the reset clause?


Thoughts? Opinions?

*hopes this is the right place for such a question

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

You could probably take the aliens out of Star Wars and made it work, since it's a basic retelling of a "good vs. evil" story. You could replace Chewie with a really harry, tall guy and get away with it, and Tatooine is basically the Middle East with aliens, and Endor is basically Africa with tribes, and Hoth is basically the Eskimo planet.

Star Trek is a whole different ball game, since aliens were used in a more allegorical sense. For instance, the Klingons were war mongering Kommunists, up until RDM added culture to them.

I'll write more once I can be bothered. LOL

[genji2000]

Not that I have much to contribute to this because for me the less sci-fi in a show, the better.

But I think the no-aliens thing has been done before. I'm wracking my brain trying to remember what it was (and I'm sure there are many, more obvious examples) but I remember a story in which mankind developed enough to achieve space travel and searched for intelligent life, but the depressing conclusion was that we are it. So I don't think RDM stumbled on it.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Firefly is a more recent example of a SF show without aliens.

Space: Above and Beyond could also qualify, since we find out in the series finale that the Chigs were actually the original Earthlings.

[genji2000]

Firefly is a more recent example of a SF show without aliens.

Space: Above and Beyond could also qualify, since we find out in the series finale that the Chigs were actually the original Earthlings.

lol. I watched Firefly but it didn't figure in my brain-wracking.

It may have been a 2000AD story, or a comedy novel. I haven't seen S:AAB.

[barnmaddo]

Hmm, first thing I thought was that if you substituted race for aliens it would be a bad thing. I guess the difference is aliens are just pretend...


or are they!?!

[pagad]

I think the biggest problem with aliens is that all too often they're not executed properly.

The best example of truly alien "aliens" was, funnily enough, in the first two Alien movies (the second of which, Aliens, is possibly my favourite sci-fi movie ever). They were alien, man. Horribly so.

Contact with intelligent life is sadly underexploited - seems to be limited to Trek-style "humans with funny ears". Are there any examples of really well executed contact in TV and movies? I can think of plenty in literature.

[Stairway]

Well there are a couple of SG1 episodes in which I think they made really good aliens on how they could be, but those are rare exceptions. (Thinking about glowing bug at the moment)

[Pnutmaster]

I think the biggest problem with aliens is that all too often they're not executed properly.

The best example of truly alien "aliens" was, funnily enough, in the first two Alien movies (the second of which, Aliens, is possibly my favourite sci-fi movie ever). They were alien, man. Horribly so.

Contact with intelligent life is sadly underexploited - seems to be limited to Trek-style "humans with funny ears". Are there any examples of really well executed contact in TV and movies? I can think of plenty in literature.

It's a real problem, no doubt. Not every alien species should be humanoid.

When they're not humanoid, they're either non corporal (2001: A Space Odyssey), or hive creatures (Aliens, Starship Troopers). I too wait for the mold to be broken :/

[Bluce_Ree]

The best example of truly alien "aliens" was, funnily enough, in the first two Alien movies (the second of which, Aliens, is possibly my favourite sci-fi movie ever). They were alien, man. Horribly so.


THIS.

Also, the thing from er... The Thing. Utterly terrifying and badass. Although not as badass as Kurt Russell, or Saul Tigh.

I watched Space: Above and Beyond. BSG parallels-a-plenty on that show. Pretty good actually although pointless now that we have BSG. Ended a bit (read: a lot) abruptly as well.

Firefly was the sex. It was hot sex in your gob.


so what else? I'll tell you....


V. Oh yeah baby. The Beastmaster and Michael Ironside kicking off against reptilian bastards? Sign me up for that. That kid with the 'pretinama' bollocks can piss off though. As can all those perms.

The Time Tunnel. It was by the bloke who did Lost in Space (Toss in Space, more like) but not gash. In fact, great. A bit like Quantum Leap (Condom Leap, more like) but not gash again. Had Lee Merriwether in it. She's like the best woman who ever lived ever.

What else? I dunno. I hate sci-fi.

[pagad]

Well there are a couple of SG1 episodes in which I think they made really good aliens on how they could be, but those are rare exceptions. (Thinking about glowing bug at the moment)

This would be the same Stargate that resorted to Roswell aliens.

Bluce_Ree: Clearly you don't hate sci-fi since you've just given plenty of examples of "good" SF (I want to get around to watching Space: Above and Beyond at one point, along with B5). Is it just the genre cliches and stereotypes that you hate?

[Zlaticko]

1. What is it that these shows have that others don't?
2. Do we want realism? aliens? drama? action?
3. Do we want lines of techno babble? shows that have a build in 'reset' clause?
4. Is the 'heroes journey' a must?
5. If you take the aliens out of Star Wars could it still have worked?

1. I think the best ones are the ones that are story driven, and the environment is secondary. That's what was great about Alien, or even (the 1st) Predator. But to as to the boob-tube, I'd guess Bab-5 or BSG.

2. Realism - since BSG, oh hell yes. I like the absence of treknobabble, and I had no idea about that until it was missing.
2. Aliens - take it or leave it. Dune is a great example of how to be alien and still human.
2. Drama/Action - I'd say 35/65; but less than 10% shippers-angst. I don't mind the relationship stuff, I am opposed to having an episode (or half a season) be weighted down by it.

3. Assuming a 'reset-clause' means episodic versus serial viewing, I actually don't mind either. It depends on the story or premise, I guess. Didn't Outer Limits try to connect the universe together at one point, and it kinda worked?

4. Heros Journey. As above, it depends on the show.

5. No Aliens in Star Wars? It would work, yes. Aliens are just costumes, in this case. Take Jabba, for instance; could he have been a human Yakuza/Mafia-like crime boss instead? Absolutely.

[Bluce_Ree]

This would be the same Stargate that resorted to Roswell aliens.

Bluce_Ree: Clearly you don't hate sci-fi since you've just given plenty of examples of "good" SF (I want to get around to watching Space: Above and Beyond at one point, along with B5). Is it just the genre cliches and stereotypes that you hate?

probably. I generally glaze over when I start hearing about 'the trade federation has gone into the Cockula system to stop the uprising from the Republic of Down's Syndrome' or some horrible gash like that.

plus I could never get on with Star Trek (or indeed Star Wars).

and things like 2001 just put me to sleep.

[Pnutmaster]

2. Aliens - take it or leave it. Dune is a great example of how to be alien and still human.

The most obvious example I can think of is Leto II, but on second thought, Paul felt like an alien in his own right, as did the Bene Gesserit. You know, interestingly, Children of Dune hints at the existence of 'Creator Race' that terraformed Dune into the desert planet.


5. No Aliens in Star Wars? It would work, yes. Aliens are just costumes, in this case. Take Jabba, for instance; could he have been a human Yakuza/Mafia-like crime boss instead? Absolutely.Sure, it would have worked, but would it have been as iconic and memorable?

[Zlaticko]

Certainly not as imitable as Pizza the Hutt.

Don't forget the Tleilax Face Dancers and Gholas; technically human. But then there's the guild pilots that are mutants, as I 'spose Leto II is/was.

[pagad]

I do not believe Star Wars would have worked without its aliens. It would have been too colourless and boring, frankly, for films of its style.

[Stairway]

Agreed. The Ewoks did it for me.