33 (Rewatch)

[bazzyb]

Maybe I'll start things on this one. This is one of my favourte episodes, possibly my favourite across the four seasons. I think it very much set the trend for the reast of the season

[genji2000]

Maybe I'll start things on this one. This is one of my favourte episodes, possibly my favourite across the four seasons. I think it very much set the trend for the reast of the season

Damn, man. You forgot the poll.

[Hermes]

I rewatched this just about a week ago. This is still a fantastic episode. It really established the sense of desperation and that they were on the run. Plus, it established how the Cylons were playing mind games with the Colonials. Like a cat playing with a mouse before it kills it. Btw, I highly recommend listening to the commentaries on the DVD.

[Batman316]

Now is where it gets 'interesting' and yes I know I seem to be harping on an Iblis-ish god character at the helm of it all.... but the destruction of the Olympic Carrier can't just be a co-incidence. Nor can we just ignore the fact that 'EVERYTHING' that happens through the various cut scenes seems to be a direct result of Baltars choices. Everything H6 tells him comes true. The 1 person who could identify Baltar's 'crimes' just happens to be on the one ship that goes missing that arrives later. The Nukes thing is also interesting.... do they have to be 'armed' for the Galactica to detect them? Cause I'm pretty sure that the last time we heard about nukes they had already been fired at the ship. (minor point I know)

How much control could the cylons actually have on those events? Considering it's the President who makes the call to destroy the ship how could H6 basically guarentee that all Baltar needed to do was 'believe' and he would be spared?

But what stands out most for me is Roslins voice when she says 'Do it'. (please watch the destruction again and tell me if I'm seeing things) Her face seems to contort a little, her tone is harsh and deeper than usual. It looks like 'something' forces her to say the words.

Once more this episode leads me to the belief that there is a 'higher power' controling these events and H6 has this entity on 'speed-dial'.

On a side note- Could just be the Australian DVD version but Baltars house being destroyed is not shown in the opening credits. Obviously added later (pretty sure it's there in S2)

[Batman316]

Lastly, the commentary reveals that the original shooting script definitively showed helpless civilians still aboard the Olympic Carrier, visible through the windows. There was much conflict as to if this was too dark, or necessary to show the gravity of the decision to destroy the ship. My personal preference would have been the former, which is my only complaint about 33. Otherwise, it’s an excellent episode.

http://www.webomatica.com/wordpress/2008/01/13/battlestar-galactica-33/

[stavrosg]

But what stands out most for me is Roslins voice when she says 'Do it'. (please watch the destruction again and tell me if I'm seeing things) Her face seems to contort a little, her tone is harsh and deeper than usual. It looks like 'something' forces her to say the words.
It is her struggling with her consciousness; She values life greatly, and while she knows that the sacrifice of those 1300 passengers is nessecary for the survival of the rest, she still doesn't want to make that choise. That's what we see in her face.

Excellent episode in general. :thumbsup:

[Metis]

Now is where it gets 'interesting' and yes I know I seem to be harping on an Iblis-ish god character at the helm of it all.... but the destruction of the Olympic Carrier can't just be a co-incidence.

I agree that there must be some higher power at work, though I would prefer not to associate this power with the name Iblis. I find no other way to explain the Hybrids, as a general example. Specifically, for this episode, Dr. Amarak was identified before the Olympic Carrier failed to make the jump. That's too much of a coincidence for me.

Baltar does not have the prerogative on redemption in this show, as Bill Adama, at least, is well aware. ("You cannot play God and wash your hands of the things that you've created.")

How much control could the cylons actually have on those events? Considering it's the President who makes the call to destroy the ship how could H6 basically guarentee that all Baltar needed to do was 'believe' and he would be spared?

I don't think the Cylon had any more power over these events than the Humans, and see the subsequent events surrounding the OC as inevitable, including Roslin's decision once Galactica became aware of the nukes.

[michaels]

Very well done episode...also one of my favorites of the series. I like how they can tackle the moral question of whether to destroy the Olympic Carrier without resorting to moralizing.

My one issue with the episode is the same as Batman's. I would have preferred the darkness of actually being able to see people in there (and perhaps even a humanoid cylon that we hadn't yet seen). By making the ship appear empty, they are trying to have it both ways. They want the drama of blowing up a ship full of civilians while at the same time not actually blowing them up, if that makes any sense.

The scenes between 6 and Baltar were wonderful and provided a nice light counterpoint to what else was going on.

One question was what happened to the crew, specifically who was communicating with the fleet when the OC jumped back? There's been no examples of cylons being able to mimic other's voices, and there was no strain in the person's voice as there would be if there were a cylon with a gun to his head telling him what to say. It's as if the pilot really believed what he what he was saying. Maybe a humanoid cylon was a copilot and "silenced" him after it was clear that the colonials weren't buying the story.

Anyway, it's one of those questions that's better left as a mystery.

Michael

[Shadow Rider]

I may be wrong...but I think RDM said that despite what was shown on the screen, the Colonials firmly believe that there were civilians on the ship.

I love the sense of desperation in this episode. It's definitely not the typical series opener. =P I like how it really doesn't try to add any plot points to the overall story or set-up the season, it just explains what's been happening since the mini-series and leaves us with a general direction to go towards for the rest of the season.

Also, look at where Baltar is in this episode...and look where he ended up. I firmly believe without Head Six, he'd have been airlocked by the Act 3. Also, watching it a second time, knowing she isn't a cylon (as that's what I assumed the first time), it puts a very different perspective on what she's doing for Baltar.

[smelly_feet]

Now is where it gets 'interesting' and yes I know I seem to be harping on an Iblis-ish god character at the helm of it all.... but the destruction of the Olympic Carrier can't just be a co-incidence. Nor can we just ignore the fact that 'EVERYTHING' that happens through the various cut scenes seems to be a direct result of Baltars choices. Everything H6 tells him comes true. The 1 person who could identify Baltar's 'crimes' just happens to be on the one ship that goes missing that arrives later. The Nukes thing is also interesting.... do they have to be 'armed' for the Galactica to detect them? Cause I'm pretty sure that the last time we heard about nukes they had already been fired at the ship. (minor point I know)

How much control could the cylons actually have on those events? Considering it's the President who makes the call to destroy the ship how could H6 basically guarentee that all Baltar needed to do was 'believe' and he would be spared?

But what stands out most for me is Roslins voice when she says 'Do it'. (please watch the destruction again and tell me if I'm seeing things) Her face seems to contort a little, her tone is harsh and deeper than usual. It looks like 'something' forces her to say the words.

Once more this episode leads me to the belief that there is a 'higher power' controling these events and H6 has this entity on 'speed-dial'.

On a side note- Could just be the Australian DVD version but Baltars house being destroyed is not shown in the opening credits. Obviously added later (pretty sure it's there in S2)


Yep. And to add to your comment. I just saw resurrection ship on TV today (season 2??). Notice how Roslin convinces Adama to order Kane's assassination. Is Kane's cylon prisoner Gina? I need to stop watching this series in fragments

[Batman316]

Is Kane's cylon prisoner Gina? I need to stop watching this series in fragments

Yes and yes, you really need to watch it in order. I would suggest utorrent but I dunno if we're allowed to mention stuff like that in here. So forget I said anything <.< >.>

[JohnMatZ]

33 is as well crafted an episode from any season. The tension of having to fly a sortie every 33 minutes for Two hundred and thirty plus was very real.

Apollo & Starbucks argument was a great tension reliever.

The start of the transformation of Gaius Baltar from a Machievellian character is hinted at. Yes it is all for his self preservation that he does what he does but Head Six makes inroads. He is my favorite tragic character of all the complex characters the comprise the Galactica universe

The mysterius Amorak makes a tense futile situation even more tense.

Isn't amazing how affected Lee Adama is by having to Destroy the Olympic Carrier.

We see the utter desperation of living on the edge of total destruction. It is a great start to the series. This is one episode that I have enjoyed EVERY time I watch it.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

To be honest, I wish this episode was the pilot. Of course, it would be something of an unconventional pilot, since people would have to learn things as they'd go a long... almost makes it worthless to watch the miniseries, actually, since all the back story set up there is pretty much fleshed out in the show.

[TAZ-99]

Greetings!

As I stated on the Miniseries Thread - this is faster to just post the link to the article I already wrote on this episode.

33 (http://www.battlestarzone.com/showthread.php?t=1585)

:thumbsup::D

If you want me to post the full articles here - just let me know.

[timbo]

Sorry dudes, I am a bit behind on my rewatch. I have had to actually do some work this week. I saw 33 last night, and thought again it was great. Not much to add to what people have already said, except for one observation that kinda shoots a hole in the Tigh thing. with all the tension of having to jump every 33 minutes, everyone looks pretty ragged except for boomer, who we know is a cylon, and also Chief and Tigh. Tigh actually says "I haven´t felt so alive in years" which may just be the effect of a war on a soldier or because he is a cylon. Chief also looks really fresh while all the other mechanics have huge black rings under their eyes. This is probably nothing as apparently they did not decide who the WTF would be until later. Unless ........

[genji2000]

Sorry dudes, I am a bit behind on my rewatch. I have had to actually do some work this week. I saw 33 last night, and thought again it was great. Not much to add to what people have already said, except for one observation that kinda shoots a hole in the Tigh thing. with all the tension of having to jump every 33 minutes, everyone looks pretty ragged except for boomer, who we know is a cylon, and also Chief and Tigh. Tigh actually says "I haven´t felt so alive in years" which may just be the effect of a war on a soldier or because he is a cylon. Chief also looks really fresh while all the other mechanics have huge black rings under their eyes. This is probably nothing as apparently they did not decide who the WTF would be until later. Unless ........

Wow nice spot. That completely passed me by. I just took it at face value, as in a real soldier despises peace (though many accounts obviously indicate that they only fight in the hope of achieving peace, especially in Rome where many of the greatest soldiers were slaves earning their freedom). It was obviously delivered at face value but it's nice to think that when the Writers investigated the Watchtower Four's backstories, that line of Tigh's stood out to them.

[stavrosg]

I've noticed the same for Tigh*, but not for Tyrol, and yes you are right.
* He actually gives his rest time to a devastated Adama once and yet, he is still more fresh and aware. yay.

[genji2000]

Again, it could all be a case of retconning the show. The Writers may have reviewed it from every angle and picked out these very instances you have both noticed in order to give them a significance other than what was envisaged when the episodes were first written.

So I'm wondering if this punch in the stomach that the finale allegedly delivers is the result of some seriously purposeful retcon. What would be great about that is the variety of conclusions we could draw from reinterpreting just about any event in the show so far, potentially never coming close to the revised conclusions the Writers may have reached.

So there's my embryonic BSG theory (my first, I think): the meaning and substance of the end of the show is the result of a massive retcon of everything that's gone before.

Flame away, as they say...

[timbo]

So there's my embryonic BSG theory (my first, I think): the meaning and substance of the end of the show is the result of a massive retcon of everything that's gone before.

Flame away, as they say...

This is interesting, because really there are really only two main possibilities that I can see. Genji´s retconning, or they pretty much had the whole thing planned out. I would love for it to be the last, but suspect it is the first. Then, there is the question of just how much of the story trajectory Ron Moore had in mind from the start, and how closely he has stuck to it. AND this question was what brought me to the forum in the first place - if they would be brave enough to see it through. I think they will.

I remember a post from Starstruck, I think it was, that said "when this is all over .....". It struck me at the time as cool because she didn,t say "when the show finishes" or "when we,ve seen the last episode", she said "when this is all over", like we were living through some great ordeal, or adventure. I really liked this as it was how I was thinking too, and the only real hope and expectation I have is that the finale justifies this sense that something important is going on. If anyone reads this and thinks, wait a minute, it´s just a TV show, that´s cool, too, but for me, I followed the tune to get here.

[Wolff]

Thats ok Im a bit late to the re watch party to begin with.
33, Ive rewatched each episode a few times and this one is in my top 5 favorites.

It showed me straight away that they were not going to sugarcoat things with the cold start. Many of you have said most of what I could already but this one set the tone for the show in a way I do not feel could have been done better.

[BSGfan-atic]

"33" is definitely one of the best episodes across the four seasons.

But what stands out most for me is Roslins voice when she says 'Do it'. (please watch the destruction again and tell me if I'm seeing things) Her face seems to contort a little, her tone is harsh and deeper than usual. It looks like 'something' forces her to say the words.

With all the talk in other threads about the Final Five, I don't really want to go there, but I can't resist a little digression. As I have rewatched various episodes, I keep coming back to the scene that Batman316 referred to. I believe it has been authoritatively said (and sourced) on the Battlestar Wiki that Laura Roslin is not one of the Final Five, this scene makes it really hard not to believe that she wasn't getting some kind of input from an outside source, be it a higher power, or maybe as a secret Cylon. A real wringer of an episode, what with the relentless chase, Baltar's agony, the idea of destroying a civilian transport - just outstanding. And, yes, Joe. It would have made a hell of a good pilot, but it would have left too much background to be explained later.

[Ender]

I'm late to the rewatch game here, but wanted to add my two cents anyway. 33 is of course one of my favorite episodes (how could it not be).

To echo someone else, the commentaries are really worth listening to. There's a lot of incite in them regarding what RDM & DE were planning and where the happy accidents happened that are now turning into retconning. Based on listening to the commentaries, my impression is that RDM knew the basic arc of the whole story, but not a lot of the details; particularly where the mythology is concerned. I don’t know which episode he says it in, but I got the distinct impression that the concept of the “final five” didn’t exist at the beginning of the series. At this point the assumption was that eventually we might or might not meet all 12 models and that all 12 were basically the same kind of thing. Also, RDM has said that he had no idea where they were going when they said in the miniseries that there were 12 models. So all of the connections that we have now are due to retconning.

Having said that, it is funny how some characters are fresher than others in 33. I definitely picked up on Tigh. I didn’t notice Tyrol until someone here pointed it out. I also have another one to add to the list. Roselyn was definitely showing strain in this episode, but she didn’t look half as bad as a lot of the people around her. Think back to how bad Billy looked. He seemed barely able to stand. In comparison, Roselyn didn’t look so bad. I really don’t think that she’s the final cylon, but it does make me wonder why those three look so much better than everyone else (alas, the commentary is silent on that).

One final point: there was some discussion earlier in the thread as to whether there were civilians alive on the Olympic Carrier. In the commentary, RMD says that it was their intention that civilians be visible on the OC and that in one of the effects shots, you can still vaguely see a person through a window. The network asked that they remove the civilians from the windows so that the episode wouldn’t be quite so grim. According to RMD, Apollo and Starbuck did believe that they were killing 1300 civilians.

My two cents. Thanks!

[OldManRivers]

The retcon theory does bring new meaning to all of these episodes. I wouldn't put it pass RDM and that would be a way to "shock" us all. Alas, that just means we'll have to do ANOTHER re-watch after season 4 episode 20. haha

I'll be honest with all of you: I've never seen this episode before.

Like I mentioned in the mini-series thread, the first episode I seen was "Home Part 1". I watched from there till "Pegasus", then there was a huge break so I figured "what the hell, might as well go back and watch what happen before." When I was searching for episodes, there was a few I missed. This is the first time I'll see some of these episodes. I know I've seen every episode from season 2 onward though.

I wished the OC had visible people in it. It would of made the decision way harder and more gut wrenching in my mind. What ever though.

I wonder if this guy who wanted to contact Laura is going to come back at some point. I know Baltar already confessed his sins about being apart of the downfall of the twelve colonies, but still, it would be interesting.

God. Was he involved, or not? Watching this knowing that Internal-Six is NOT a Cylon, bring a whole new level of mystery surrounding her. She's quite the manipulator and how this Baltar thing played out with God was revealing. This affirms my believe that there is a higher power working in the BSG universe. Was it present here? Kind of, not really. I think Laura's decision was her own and not the divine intervention of the One True God.

Onward with OMR catching up on the re-watch!

[genji2000]

Wiki Questions:

Billy Keikeya reports that the number of survivors is down by 300 - some lost through death from injuries, etc., some "lost" through initial inaccurate counts, and the rest have "disappeared". How can people simply "disappear" in the Fleet?
Did Doctor Amorak truly have something on Baltar's involvement in the holocaust?
Was Amorak even aboard the Olympic Carrier?
Is Six actually in contact with other Cylons, and thus involved in the disappearance / reappearance of the Olympic Carrier?
How long was the Olympic Carrier under Cylon control?
What happened to the group of survivors Helo was left with in the Miniseries?
Was the person speaking over the wireless when the Olympic Carrier returned really its captain, or a Humanoid Cylon?
Were there any people aboard the Olympic Carrier when it was destroyed?

[Prolescum]

How can people simply "disappear" in the Fleet?
Were they Sagitarons?
What happened to the group of survivors Helo was left with in the Miniseries?
I seem to remember someone mentioning that EJO's wife was in that scene at the raptor, and her character would come back. I've no idea where I read this.

[genji2000]

I seem to remember someone mentioning that EJO's wife was in that scene at the raptor, and her character would come back. I've no idea where I read this.

I think she was one of the ones who made it onto the Raptor. Is she back in S4.5 or in The Plan?