Revelations - 6/13/08

[Shane]

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To those who read this, this is a spoiler zone. Do not read this thread if you wish to be spoiled. With that in mind use the spoiler tag if these things apply:


Future events that happen because of "Revelations" (Promo's and Previews)
Future episode related plots that are known to tie in with this episode or might happen from this episode.

Further more, as in the posted announcement regarding the preview from "The Hub", if the "final cylon" is to be reveled this episode, please keep that information in spoiler tags no matter what. No exceptions.

[redwards95]

This is the first time we've seen Tyrol in an episode since he took Hera away from Athena right before she shot Natalie 3 weeks ago isn't it? One thing I dislike about this season is the way they are having long gaps between character appearances and leaving us hanging after significant events (see also: Gaeta).

Based on spoilers it appears we will see Earth but the identity of the final cylon won't be revealed and the mystery of what happened to Starbuck won't be explained although her viper will be instrumental in reaching Earth. It looks like D'anna will reveal that only 4 of the final five are in the fleet. Is the fifth dead? On Earth already? On the basestar or elsewhere in the Galaxy? I'm a little disappointed that we've gone through so much build up these past 10 episodes and yet are no closer to learning the truth behind the mysteries that marked the beginning of this season. Hell we haven't even really been given a solid clue to who is the final cylon or whether Starbuck is a cylon, an angel, or never died in the first place.

[Washi]

http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Video-Clip-Battlestar-Galactica-Revelations-10800.html

Preview clip (1min)

[afleaah]

This is the first time we've seen Tyrol in an episode since he took Hera away from Athena right before she shot Natalie 3 weeks ago isn't it? One thing I dislike about this season is the way they are having long gaps between character appearances and leaving us hanging after significant events (see also: Gaeta).




for real...

[Shane]

Poll added.

[redwards95]

I watched the 9am ET preview. The spoilers on the web were completely accurate. The episode was great on the first viewing which was a relief after the initial letdown of the previous 2 weeks. I voted "very good."

Earth is a nuclear wasteland. It seems unlikely the fleet and the rebel cylons will stay there long. Maybe they will find clues that point them in the direction where Earth refugees left to a new homeworld (New Earth?). However, I'd be inclined to guess they will be going back to Kobol. That's the meaning of the vision of the opera house and there in fact will be a scene at the very end of the series with all of the final five, Hera, Baltar, and Caprica in the opera house.

As for the final cylon, if D'anna is to be believed, we can now exclude virtually every popular candidate. It appears the final cylon is in fact a dead character, a character we've never seen before, or a character that was left behind in the colonies or somewhere else the fleet stopped.

[redwards95]

Now that I've praised the episode, here were a few quibbles:

- the cylons never asked what happened to Natalie
- Athena was released from the brig so she could help in the planning of the raid on the basestar then apparently never was put back there
- even the other cylons don't really press D'anna on why she says there are only 4 of the final five in the fleet. wouldn't this be one of the first things Torry would want to discuss when she got over to the basestar?
- it's not really clear who Admiral Adama is crying about when he is talking about all the people he sent to die
- I thought Starbuck said she would shoot Anders if she found out he was a cylon?
- shouldn't the fleet have tried to hail Earth before landing and wouldn't the lack of a response have tipped them off that something was wrong?
- why does Lee so readily agree to D'anna's request to let the final five leave Galactica
- Baltar and Roslin seem to have totally forgotten about finding out the meaning of the vision of the opera house
- at the end on Earth, we see Caprica-6 has been released from the brig and embraces Tigh on the beach. was she included in Lee's amnesty?
- did Roslin re-assume the Presidency after her conversation with Lee?
- I wonder if Starbuck and Lee will travel to the Temple of Aurora in the first episode of season 4.5
- is the colonial transponder Starbuck's viper recognized coming from her crashed original viper as has been rumored? Why didn't everybody fly down to the source of the transponder signal in the first place instead of the beach?

[GrayAnderson]

Earth is a nuclear wasteland. I knew something was up when the "earth shots" didn't show any lights, but there -were- two options: Nuclear war or other kind of self-destruction on the one hand (perhaps associated with an exodus) and arrival in ancient history on the other hand (perhaps even associated with the 13th colony having failed/not made it/not existed).

Honestly, I like it, but it does have the feeling of a slight letdown.

Other than that, I rather did like the episode. Very enjoyable...now, I just wish they'd give us the final cylon sooner rather than later.

[The Nubs]

One of the best episodes of the series in my opinion. Still want to know who the 5th is. If it is a dead character I would lean towards Zak.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Now that I've praised the episode, here were a few quibbles:

- the cylons never asked what happened to Natalie

The Hybrid told them what happened to Natalie in "The Hub".

- Athena was released from the brig so she could help in the planning of the raid on the basestar then apparently never was put back there

Bleh. Minor detail, really...

- even the other cylons don't really press D'anna on why she says there are only 4 of the final five in the fleet. wouldn't this be one of the first things Torry would want to discuss when she got over to the basestar?

I do agree that the Last Cylon was ignored in this episode.

- it's not really clear who Admiral Adama is crying about when he is talking about all the people he sent to die

He thinks he's been played. His whole world is falling apart—he's known Tigh for 30 years and he's a skin job! How does that happen? Like us, he doesn't know what to make of it.

- I thought Starbuck said she would shoot Anders if she found out he was a cylon?

Well, the marines were there. Also, Starbuck has a tendency to say things and not follow thorough with them.

- shouldn't the fleet have tried to hail Earth before landing and wouldn't the lack of a response have tipped them off that something was wrong?

They may have. They may have not.

For all they know, Earth was merely an abandoned paradise. Instead, all they found was radioactive ruins.

- why does Lee so readily agree to D'anna's request to let the final five leave Galactica

Maybe Lee's the Fifth. :P

Seriously, I don't have any thoughts on that one. However, Lee seems willing to avoid a bloodbath at any costs, and is the one who brokered this Human and Cylon rebel alliance.

- Baltar and Roslin seem to have totally forgotten about finding out the meaning of the vision of the opera house

Finding Earth and about the Five will sidetrack ya. :)

- at the end on Earth, we see Caprica-6 has been released from the brig and embraces Tigh on the beach. was she included in Lee's amnesty?

Probably as good will, yes.

did Roslin re-assume the Presidency after her conversation with Lee?

Obviously not, since Roslin allows him to run the show still.

- I wonder if Starbuck and Lee will travel to the Temple of Aurora in the first episode of season 4.5

Maybe they are at the Temple?

is the colonial transponder Starbuck's viper recognized coming from her crashed original viper as has been rumored? Why didn't everybody fly down to the source of the transponder signal in the first place instead of the beach?

If it was a trap, then it would be foolhardy to just walk right on up to it.

Also, the episode made it specifically clear that no one else in the Fleet could pick up the signal, but yet Starbuck's pristine viper was able to. All the more reason to be cautious.

[Titan]

Incredible episode all around. Near the end, when it seemed as though everything was finally going right - I *knew* there was a twist coming. Can't have a 6 to 9 month hiatus begin on a happy ending, after all.

[Kristiger]

I watched it. Amazing episode, I can't wait for the final 10 episodes. SciFi, hurry up! It may be the best episode of the series, even better than '33'. Kudos all around, especially to Michael Hogan, and Aaron Douglas in an almost silent role.

[Osprey]

"Honestly, I like it, but it does have the feeling of a slight letdown."
um, i think that was the POINT!
:-)

d'anna's "head fake" from last week was NOTHING compared to this!
:-)

annnnd, we get punked TWICE with the whole misdirection re: the 5th cylon ...

rdm is playin' wit us -- but i guess we like it that way!
:-)

/fwiw, yes it ties up the 1st half arcs & yes it gives us [obviously] something to look forward to for the series end, but i voted "good" only, 'cause, well, imo it was ~24 min. worth of story that dragged through to the 45 min. ep. length ...

[Osprey]

" *knew* there was a twist coming"

yeah, for over a minute i'm like -- c'mon, show me the punchline!


/fwiw, didn't several posters call this precise scenario re: earth in one of our "speculation" threads? very good job folks!

[J03y]

Well, I absolutely loved this episode. I can't wait to find out what the 'mystery' of Earth is. So excited!

[Xenon242]

I just the episode, first viewing. First impression: I was not disappointed at all, but I'm going to need to re-watch tomorrow and let all of this sink in properly.

[Arthenik]

I really liked how the Dark Tower series (by Stephen King) ended. Roland (the hero) had to go through some awful stuff (seeing his love get burnt alive, his nation completely destroyed, shooting his friend by mistake and leaving his other friend to his death). He journeyed to the Dark Tower - the nexus of time and space, so he could undo all the evil that has happened to those that he loved. In the end, he did get there, but as a punishment for his past deeds (he was more of an antihero, to be honest), he was sentenced to go through all of it again. And again.

I would like to see something similar for BSG. All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again.
I posted this in the "What end do you want for 'Galactica'?" thread. So we have a war, a long journey, many lost friends and in the end, nothing is as it seems...

I think I just got the "ending" that I wanted.

[Apricot]

IMHO, everything was quite good except for one thing. I do not understand the decision to stall the overall story between the S4 episodes 3 to 7 then pack the most important moment of the entire series into two acts in a single episode.

The last two acts in question could have been properly set for the entire episode length. I felt that the only flaw here (just as a viewer's opinion of course) is that some episodes were a complete waste of time. Why did you resolve 3 major plot points in the last 30 minutes? Surely the first 5-6 episodes contain future elements; I fail to see their significance. Baltar's cult for example?

Lee became President in 5 minutes. Timewise, it is the same for the Hub strike, the final jumps to Earth (which we don't see) and the the peace deal with the Cylons; they all happened in the last two out of 10 episodes. I have a hard time remembering anything important happening before the last two now, story-wise.

To conclude, why the rush? Besides that, very good acting overall.

[Xenon242]

I posted this in the "What end do you want for 'Galactica'?" thread. So we have a war, a long journey, many lost friends and in the end, nothing is as it seems...

I think I just got the "ending" that I wanted.

Well, now that that I've seen the episode, I can certainly see why it was felt that this could be a possible ending for the entire run of the show when it looked bad because of the writers' strike.

***EDIT***

Oops. 'Sometimes a Great Notion' was to have served as the grand finale, had the writers' strike tanked the show. My mistake.

[Xenon242]

Did anyone else find it a touch odd that Tigh addressed Lee by his former callsign in the tube, as opposed to by his real name or 'Mr President'? Probably utterly meaningless in the grand scheme of things, but it did surprise me a little when I heard it.

[Arthenik]

I thought that this was supposed to be the possible finale, too :) It would really make sense.

[5th Cylon]

I was sort of dissapointed, i wanted then to land in NYC and nobody notice it

[Hermes]

I loved the episode. I love the idea that Earth is a nuclear wasteland. And the way they showed it was great. I wonder if they're going to build the story that Earth is the origin of humanity.

Personally, I would have thought it was great if they had just ended it here. Just like this. Would have had a Twilight Zone feel to it.

[TPL2008]

Was that a wrecked bridge i saw? I'd love to see a screen shot of that last frame before the cut to credits.

[EverlastingGaze]

I thought this was a fantastic episode. The letdown at the end was not a letdown at the programme more a feeling letdown for the characters.
This episode gave me goosebumps and made my cry(admitedly not hard).
Poor Adama.

[Chiefchess]

We have reached the end of the midseason, and BSG didn't fail to disappoint. Sadly, we have to wait until 2009 before we get the full story. As we have no more episodes to discuss for a while, I invite the panel to ponder the following mysteries still left unsolved by BSG.
1. What happened to Earth and the 13th colony?
2. What exactly is Starbuck, who is guiding her, and for what purpose?
3. Who, if anyone, will Starbuck end up with (Sam, Lee, Leo, someone else, etc.)?
4. Will the alliance with the humans and the rebel cylons last?
5. How will the anti-human cylons complicate things?
6. How will the final 4 adapt to being "known" as cylons?
7. Saul and Caprica's baby? What is it and will it survive?
8. Hera's destiny and the secret to the opera house?
9. Will Chief find out that Tory killed Cally? If so, how will he react?
10. THE BIG ONE-WHO IS THE FINAL CYLON?

Hopefully, these questions will keep us occupied until 2009. No need to post here if you don't want to. I just posted this to remind us that "Revelations" still left us in the dark about many things.
8.

[afleaah]

you no last week i thought that the hub was gonna be the best eps of the season
then hey hit me with this ep...
and i can now say i that my heart stopped about 10 times and i had mutliple strokes at every scene during the hour.
my muscles twiched uncontrollably and i felt i was gonna die.
and in some ways i think i am dead- i think my brain function has definitly ceased and i seemed to have lost my ability to think.
its uncertain that i will return to normal function- it seems difficult.

now the reason is not because of WHAT happened specifically in the ep.
from the preview i somewhat deduced that the 4 other cylons would be revealed...and that they PROBABLY got to earth (from the clip of d'anna and laura standin together on a planet) so those werent big surprises.
for me it was just the way HOW things went down...
1st tory wen to the base ship
then tigh confeses to bill
then bill totally flips out and fraks out- great scene
and then lee takes over...
d'anna starts killin humans...
then lee wants to kill the four...
then starbuck tells lee that they can find earth now...
lee deals with d'anna
laura comes home and gives a stern talkin to bill
and he gets back to his old self...
they find earth and are all excited- i was too
then they go to earth
and realise its a frak job...
leavin them to think...what a waste of time, energy, blood, firends, family, life...
and then thats it...
wat the frak next?

the thing was that everything happened soooooo fast...
it was just one thing after another after another...
there was no pause...no break in the tension
the eps just kept unfolding and unraveling sooo quickly- you had to absorb everything quickly....

but damn...
i honestly dunno how im gonna function until i see the rest...

[ranvir]

Great episode... I have no idea what to think right now. I was kind of expecting it as they entered Earth's atmosphere, but... Jesus.

If Kara really did go to Earth, how did her viper come back in tip-top shape? Wouldn't she have noticed it was, erhm, unpopulated? How did the viper get sent that signal? There are still plenty of questions to be answered. As I expected, the revelations did not amount to resolutions.

Also, I loved Tyrol in this episode. His smiles were extremely well-timed and definitely captured his (and our, or at least my) feelings of complete bewilderment (and amused acceptance of this bewilderment) at the crazy turns of events going on.

[5th Cylon]

Overall a good episode, but my only problem would be why exactly did #3 have top be such a bitch, you think one of her crewmates would have stepped up and said you know take a chill pill.

You think even #3 would realize that it might be better to do things the nice way first and then if you don't get your way become a bitch.

Also why didn't one of the other 3 cylons at least offer to go over there and talk some sense into there cylon mates(i can see Adama reluctant to send one over, but it would be a decent plan)

Beyond that since earth is such a poophole wouldn't it be better for them just to fly back to Caprica, it didn't seem that bad there

[leon]

Hey, it's just a TV show that they're making up as they go along, but based on what we've seen in the show so far, I don't THINK they intend the planet that they landed on to be "our" Earth.

In the finale of season 3, the show did show a clear low earth orbit shot of the continental U.S.

This planet they landed on, although another blue water planet, at least in the shots they showed-didn't have any recognizable geography from our planet/OUR earth.

They've got plenty of episodes left before they check in with LA Air Traffic Control...

Another inconsistency, and I'm not a structural engineer, a metallurgist or an archaelogist, but those ruins didn't look that old. They looked to me between a few dozen and a few hundred years old-MAX. Those ruins of buildings we saw in the distance would totally collapse after a few dozen years if they were anything like our construction.

The ruins we saw standing would either be crumbled to the ground totally or completely overgrown after a few thousand years.

And the radiation wouldn't be measurable either after several thousand years-at least not to where a giger counter would pick it up.

Imagine the PTSD these poor folks would have...

[leon]

Since the main cylon forces appear to have been defeated and denied their capability to ressurrect, I would definitely consider returning to Caprica at this point as well.

After three or four years, even with a major nuclear war with significant ground bursted weaopns, the radiation problem would be greatly diminished

[Michael]

It's an incredible episode, but its a sucky cliffhanger. It sorta like in Lost when they opened the hatch at the end of the first season ...

[afleaah]

Overall a good episode, but my only problem would be why exactly did #3 have top be such a bitch, you think one of her crewmates would have stepped up and said you know take a chill pill.

You think even #3 would realize that it might be better to do things the nice way first and then if you don't get your way become a bitch.




just watched over the ep and since i dont have a dvd recorder stood in front of the tv and racorded it on my camera...(and like a prize fool- i missed the adama meltdown when i was tryin to make space on my memory card)

but yeah...
when d'anna first boarded galactica with adama- she saw the final four there...
why didnt she just use her smarts and realize that they really didnt want to come to the base ship when she told them too...
it was obvious (maybe not to just awoken #3) that they werent being kept against their will and just didnt wanna go...especially in the moment where tory was goin and tigh didnt want her to go with d'anna...
but i dunno why cylons do the things they do...

and once again props to bear mccreary who show us who's boss...
execllent score for the eps- beautiful music...
took me on that rollercoaster ride of emotions i like to travel on...
so big up...

[Starstruck]

Loved it. I was expecting a post-apocalyptic Earth, so that was no surprise to me, but I loved the way they did it. One question for me is whether the entire Earth is like that or if there are survivors.

My one quibble with the episode was the majority of the reconciliation between the fleet and the cylons took place during a commercial break. Weak! Anyway, I think they must have run out of time to do those scenes, so they skipped them. Still a great episode, and a worthy way to end midseason.

I think the next half of the season will address the children - Hera, Nicky, Baby-SixTigh, and the final cylon. They've taken it this far, awakened D'anna, revealed the four, landed on Earth, but not yet revealed the final. That means the final is extremely important to the plot, and possibly to the truth of the children. I'm not sure if we'll learn much more about the nature of Cylons, that may be reserved for Caprica. We will, however, learn something about the Watchtower beacon, I think. Maybe not everything.

As for what D'anna said about there only being four in the fleet... She could be lying, but I don't see any reason for her to do that. If it were Lee, she had ample time to tell him, and I can't imagine why she wouldn't have. I stopped thinking the final could be Dee or Gaeta or one of the minor pilots after a couple episodes of the new season, because they were building it up too much to have it be any other than a major charcter. I'm even more convinced of that now that they're letting us have almost a year to think about it. It has to be major. I'm leaving out Cottle now too.

Now, she said there are only four "in your fleet". She could have meant physically, not symbolicly, so it could still be someone who was on the Baseship - Roslin, Baltar, Adama, but then we're back to why D'anna wouldn't have said so, especially to Baltar, who she has a good relationship with. I think that might mean my favorite for the final, Baltar, is no longer really a contender in my mind either.

So, who is it? Someone who is dead? Adama's father? Thrace's mother? I guess it could still be Adama, himself, since D'anna spent less time with him, and may not have found a reason to tell him after he left the Basestar.

Questions, questions. Wooooo.

[The Dirt]

Has anyone noticed that the head characters were completely missing from this episode? Except for one...the pristine Viper. Here's my theory: all the head characters are the clean cut, 8 hours of sleep, new haircut versions of their reality counterparts. Even Head-Leoben was cleaned up looking in Maelstrom. Head-Six also (presumably but very likely) appeared as a real person in season 1. The Head-Viper is the real version of itself (getting convoluted here). Anyway, this Viper is pristine just like the other Head characters. So... this also means that the Viper is from whatever world/dimension/reality that the rest of the head characters come from. Kara never went to Earth - she "crossed over" to "Head Land" and brought back a souvenir.

[afleaah]

is it just me or does it seem that the leoben's dont quite trust d'anna?

in the beginning he wanted to cooperate with the humans but d'anna busted out a ' we tried to cooperate with them on new caprica' line shutin him up
and later when d'anna was movin the hostages to get smoked...leoben goes to laura and baltar to what- just update them on the situation?
and then he was gonna take laura to talk to d'anna and well she told baltar to go instead...

and if he doesnt trust d'anna so 'blindly' i have to give him props...
at least he has a brain of his own...
unlike the rest of them who just seem to be takin orders from her no questions asked...
and especially the centurions...b4 the other models would be kind of careful in orderin them around and they seem tojust doin watever d'anna wants them to do...

[afleaah]

is it just me or does it seem that the leoben's dont quite trust d'anna?

in the beginning he wanted to cooperate with the humans but d'anna busted out a ' we tried to cooperate with them on new caprica' line shutin him up
and later when d'anna was movin the hostages to get smoked...leoben goes to laura and baltar to what- just update them on the situation?
and then he was gonna take laura to talk to d'anna and well she told baltar to go instead...

and if he doesnt trust d'anna so 'blindly' i have to give him props...
at least he has a brain of his own...
unlike the rest of them who just seem to be takin orders from her no questions asked...
and especially the centurions...b4 the other models would be kind of careful in orderin them around and they seem toj ust doin watever d'anna wants them to do...

[james968]

Did anyone else find it a touch odd that Tigh addressed Lee by his former callsign in the tube, as opposed to by his real name or 'Mr President'? Probably utterly meaningless in the grand scheme of things, but it did surprise me a little when I heard it.

I think Tigh knew what decision needed to be made (space the Fracking cylon), and he be using his call sign, Apollo would be more likely to do his job (or included to do it as part of his Military bearing and 'following an order').

Just more of the subtleties that RDM and the writers put in to make you love the show

[gworroll]

I wonder if they are meant to have landed on any specific part of Earth, or if it was just a random place?

It looked to me a lot like they were standing in Brooklyn looking across the river at the remains of Manhattan.

As for the distress signal... Maybe they did head to that location?

Questions I want seen answered-
Did anyone survive the calamity on Earth? Where are they? Who are they? How are they coping with the devastation?

Did they attempt to make radio contact, or attempt to pick up Earth radio signals? Did they find anything? If so, what?

Did they review any imagery from orbit? What did they see?

Why land in that particular location?

Oh, is Earth suitable for long term habitation? It's been wrecked, and the geiger counter seemed to suggest a greater than real world current amount of radiation in the environment, but that doesn't automatically rule it out.

[rion9009]

Did anyone else notice when Anders called Starbuck "Kat", as in Katee? It was the scene where the Marines come in to arrest Anders and Tyrol, and Starbuck finds out they're Cylons.

[genji2000]

This planet they landed on, although another blue water planet, at least in the shots they showed-didn't have any recognizable geography from our planet/OUR earth.

Other than the ruins of the Manhattan skyline you mean?

[james968]

OK. After Tory jumped ship (makes you wanna hate her even more doesn't it) and the other 3 were contemplating what to do and Tigh revealed himself. Why the frak didn't he just get on the radio tell her "We want to stay here, that [<insert insult about Tory>], can stay with you if she wants to"

Offer to have one of the expendable 6 or 8's come over and verify this.

I kinda wish they had also shown more of the other crew members reactions to finding out that various crew mates were cylons.

Good points:

Tigh volunteering to be spaced. (Scene with Tigh and Adama. Maybe one of the gag reels with Adama proposing alternate theories will have him blurt out "Haven't you read any good theories on battlestarforum?")
After accepting Tigh as a cylon and having to send him out the airlock. Adama's breakdown ++
[**] He knows Tigh is loyal
[**] He is sending is Cylon Best Friend to Die (not because he is a cylon*, but to save the lives of the hostages and the fleet).
Lee punching Tigh, not because he's a cylon, but because what his father is going through.
Tyrol's smile/acceptance that they have finally been caught.
Anders getting dragged away (to be executed, his wife looking at him like wtf!?!? his cover blown), Doesn't apologies to Kara, but Tells her "Look at the viper, its the key". (He could have thrown in the tagline "Do you job!").
Tyrol(?) (as he an Anders get put in the execution tube), "So I guessed you told them who we are"


*Adama is pretty much over his anti-cylon bigotry. When Athena kills Natalie, he chastises her for killing an "un-armed woman".

++ Someone asked about this in another post so I'll elaborate a little. Adama has always needed to steel himself about sending pilot/marines/crew members on danger or even suicide missions. (The paradox is being a GOOD Leader makes him OBLIGATED to and he DOES care for them). (In the miniseries Tigh had to depressurize a major portion of the flight pod and kill ~80 crew men to save the ship. Adama said he would have done the same thing). Tigh is one of the people who understands that and one of the people Adama would fall back to on this. The combined impact of all of this <SNAP>

//Off to go re-watch the episode//

[genji2000]

Did anyone else notice when Anders called Starbuck "Kat", as in Katee? It was the scene where the Marines come in to arrest Anders and Tyrol, and Starbuck finds out they're Cylons.

"Kara", although the second syllable was choked.


Questions, questions. Wooooo.

Answers, answers. Wooooo: http://www.battlestarforum.com/showpost.php?p=17773&postcount=7

Loved it. I was expecting a post-apocalyptic Earth, so that was no surprise to me, but I loved the way they did it. One question for me is whether the entire Earth is like that or if there are survivors.

Me too. Funny how the Worst Ending thread brought up a few Planet of the Apes references and Revelations gave us the same moment of revelation but used a destroyed Manhattan skyline instead of a destroyed Statue of Liberty. I don't want to moan about them landing in New Jersey, and I guess it was a direct reference or homage, but there are other countries, as Eddie Izzard said.


I think the next half of the season will address the children...

Another spooky Hera moment when Athena and Helo were hugging *shivers*.

Here's my theory: all the head characters are the clean cut, 8 hours of sleep, new haircut versions of their reality counterparts. Even Head-Leoben was cleaned up looking in Maelstrom. Head-Six also (presumably but very likely) appeared as a real person in season 1. The Head-Viper is the real version of itself (getting convoluted here). Anyway, this Viper is pristine just like the other Head characters. So... this also means that the Viper is from whatever world/dimension/reality that the rest of the head characters come from. Kara never went to Earth - she "crossed over" to "Head Land" and brought back a souvenir.

Head Six is Baltar's idealisation of Caprica Six - the way he saw her before she revealed to him his complicity in the attacks on the twelve colonies - part of his way of dealing with or continuing after what he'd done.

Head Baltar is Caprica Six's idealisation of Baltar, prior to her death and resurrection.

That's why they're pristine versions - because their imaginers idealise them.

It's too much of a stretch for me to call the Viper a head character because it exists physically - everyone can see it, not just the imaginer.


and if he doesnt trust d'anna so 'blindly' i have to give him props...
at least he has a brain of his own...
unlike the rest of them who just seem to be takin orders from her no questions asked...
and especially the centurions...b4 the other models would be kind of careful in orderin them around and they seem toj ust doin watever d'anna wants them to do...

Yeah that irritated me slightly too, but I suppose the Writers just had to paint her as the evil leader and this was the most expedient way of doing it.

Also, Cylon society is governed by consensus - there are no leaders. The Rebels seem to need a leader and automatically respond to anyone who shows leadership qualities, like Natalie or Rebel Eight.

Now they've found Earth, they're going to have to defend it against the orginal Cylon fleet aren't they? The Rebel Cylons will need a leader in that struggle (although D'Anna won't be around to do the job).

I think Tigh knew what decision needed to be made (space the Fracking cylon), and he be using his call sign, Apollo would be more likely to do his job (or included to do it as part of his Military bearing and 'following an order').

Just more of the subtleties that RDM and the writers put in to make you love the show

Yes - by calling him Apollo, Tigh effectively said "This is war. You're a soldier. Do your job."

[raist3d]

As much as I liked the ending of this episode, how humans and cylons put apart their differences to work together seemed a bit way too contrived to me. Didn't seem quite right either way, considering how much hate and backstabbing was still running around. Everthing on that end seemed a bit too forced...

- Raist

[genji2000]

As much as I liked the ending of this episode, how humans and cylons put apart their differences to work together seemed a bit way too contrived to me. Didn't seem quite right either way, considering how much hate and backstabbing was still running around. Everthing on that end seemed a bit too forced...

- Raist

They have been laying the groundwork for it since Leoben showed up at the Demetrius. If you take Revelations by itself then it was uncomfortable, but they're not best buddies yet.

I found it really sad that amidst all the celebrations having found Earth, Tigh was in his quarters knocking back the whisky. It would have been nice to see him in CIC with one of those underplayed handshakes from Adama to welcome him back, although this might have been awkward given Adama's breakdown.

It was good to see him on Earth with Caprica Six.

[TPL2008]

What now for the fleet?

Imagine, if you were one of those nameless 39,000, how would you feel upon hearing that Earth was dump?

[Xenon242]

There's going to be a crisis, for sure. Suicides, for example, mutinies. I suspect 4.5 is going to be very ugly for the RTF.

[genji2000]

There's going to be a crisis, for sure. Suicides, for example, mutinies. I suspect 4.5 is going to be very ugly for the RTF.

I think the main threat will come from Cavil's fleet.

[Xenon242]

It will be both; by the time Cavil shows up, the colonists will have literally reached the end of their collective tether with this latest disappointment, and will have already started to basically break down.

[Solistus]

I called it! (http://battlestarforum.com/showpost.php?p=14576&postcount=1) Earth is a radioactive wasteland! I love this show...

Tigh's revelation was frakkin great, as was Olmos (as always). I can't wait to see what happens... Too bad we have to :'(

[stavrosg]

- Athena was released from the brig so she could help in the planning of the raid on the basestar then apparently never was put back there

I think she was released when Lee gave amnesty to the captive cylons.

[genji2000]

I think she was released when Lee gave amnesty to the captive cylons.

With so many Cylons knocking about it didn't make any sense to keep Caprica Six and Athena locked up, and the whole situation is way beyond enforcing the letter of the law. During the stand-off the colonials needed every person, as Athena herself attested, saying "D'Anna will know you're employing me to help plan this" or whatever she said.

[redwards95]

The constellations matched. That was Earth.

[Xenon242]

The constellations matched. That was Earth.

I don't think there can be any doubting this. The major question now becomes, 'What now?'

[redwards95]

1. What happened to Earth and the 13th colony?

Earth is the 13th colony. All that happened before will happen again. Perhaps the people of Earth created mechanical beings who rebelled and nuked their former masters' planet?

2. What exactly is Starbuck, who is guiding her, and for what purpose?

She is an "angel of light" and the "harbinger of death". Seems pretty clear she is agent of God or the Gods.

3. Who, if anyone, will Starbuck end up with (Sam, Lee, Leo, someone else, etc.)?

I'd guess Lee, but there's no guarantee either of them is going to make it alive to the end of the series.

4. Will the alliance with the humans and the rebel cylons last?

Of course not or the second half of the season would be rather boring.

5. How will the anti-human cylons complicate things?

Perhaps they will not be as willing to listen to the final five as their rebel brothers and sisters. If the final cylon is back on one of the colonies, perhaps Cavil will find her first. Probably Cavil will attack the human fleet again and force them back on the run.

6. How will the final 4 adapt to being "known" as cylons?

Torry will stay on the basestar. Tyrol may go over too because he wants to find Boomer. Anders will stay with Starbuck and continue acting like a confused puppy. Adama will probably ask Tigh to stay on as XO and he'll agree.

7. Saul and Caprica's baby? What is it and will it survive?

It's a baby? I think it will survive. Having children was a big part of the cylons' plans in season 1. It seems like eventually there should be 5 cylon children. Torry and Boomer should start taking regular pregnancy tests.

8. Hera's destiny and the secret to the opera house?

She is the first of the next generation (or is she?). The opera house is where the final cylon will be revealed. Perhaps it is a sign that the colonists should return to Kobol where the opera house was located.

9. Will Chief find out that Tory killed Cally? If so, how will he react?

Undoubtedly. See the Last Supper picture for an idea how he'll react. (Hint: he's holding a knife and Torry isn't there.)

10. THE BIG ONE-WHO IS THE FINAL CYLON?

Honestly? I have no frakkin' idea. RDM seems to have boxed himself into a corner where the people who would make the best final cylon (Starbuck, Baltar, Roslin) no longer are viable candidates. I think it has to be somebody with strong ties to one of the central characters. I'm inclined to think it's Joseph Adama, Carolanne Adama, or Socrata Thrace. Boomer might work too. OTOH, I could easily see RDM shooting us all a big middle finger and having it be somebody in the Last Supper picture after all.

[sidewnder]

There is a great deal of talk about a nuked wasteland and sure, the geiga counter would give that impression. However, this was clearly the wreck of a ship. This would have a radiological signature.

The planet from orbit look like it had a pretty healthy N-O rich atmosphere and they sure were not wearing radioactive suits. This is still possibly a healthy home, perhaps not one complete with the comforts of home. Better than New Caprica.

I think we have not seen the last of the other 3 cylon models and there would sure be a few baseships hungry for revenge. The final episodes are going to be very interesting indeed. So many questions unanswered.

This is definitely Earth, but when is it? Our past, future or neither?

So long to wait :(

[jerrywickey]

Was that the ruins of the temple on earth described in Pythia? The way the story was told suggested it was. Does that mean that was earth very long ago and the fleet repopulates earth long ago?

Jerry

[genji2000]

There is a great deal of talk about a nuked wasteland and sure, the geiga counter would give that impression. However, this was clearly the wreck of a ship. This would have a radiological signature.

So what was it that destroyed Manhattan?

[Barihawk]

There is a great deal of talk about a nuked wasteland and sure, the geiga counter would give that impression. However, this was clearly the wreck of a ship. This would have a radiological signature.



You didn't notice the TWO cars turned over on their side? One was obviously a car, and the other was just the frame. It was one of the first things we saw after Adama threw down the dirt.

[pinter]

Honestly? I have no frakkin' idea. RDM seems to have boxed himself into a corner where the people who would make the best final cylon (Starbuck, Baltar, Roslin) no longer are viable candidates.

I'm not so sure about that. D'Anna clarified that there were four Cylons, not five, back in the fleet, while the baseship was still apart from it - I took her clarification to mean that the final, fifth Cylon was on the baseship with them - that would mean that it's either Adama, Roslin, Helo or Baltar.

I have this thing in the back of my head that says the final Cylon is Galactica itself, ("It's in the frakking ship!") but that's one step beyond hokey.

[genji2000]

I'm not so sure about that. D'Anna clarified that there were four Cylons, not five, back in the fleet, while the baseship was still apart from it - I took her clarification to mean that the final, fifth Cylon was on the baseship with them
Or just not in the colonial fleet. Could be back in the Cylon fleet.

- that would mean that it's either Adama, Roslin, Helo or Baltar.
Or someone in the Cylon fleet.

I have this thing in the back of my head that says the final Cylon is Galactica itself, ("It's in the frakking ship!") but that's one step beyond hokey.

I think we've put this one to bed. Both Galactica and Kara's Viper have been put forward but like you say, it's beyond hokey.

[Proxenus]

The constellations matched. That was Earth.

I am not so sure.

First, you can have the constellations match and be in another star system. It would have to be fairly close (I made a post about the calculations before, but I cannot remember what they are; I was actually trying to prove the opposite but came to the conclusion that they could be quite a distance and see the same constellations).

Second, notice how you never saw the shape of the continents. Even if several thousands of years past, the continents would still be recognizable. The continents were never shown, which I think was purposeful.

Third, there was no recognizable skyline. It was just some weirdly shaped buildings. There was no "Charlton Heston (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmw6Jne0tAQ)" moment.

It may be Earth, but I am not convinced.

[Shane]

I am pretty sure that they landed on Earth. If not, that is some bad writing from the writers themselves. Here is a picture that a user posed on the talk page of the episode on the wiki.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/913/bsgbrooklynbridgeyx0.jpg

This episode had everything for me. Human drama, right an wrong, including that principles are well worth fighting for, and also complete and full truth to one self.

Minus the antics to Lee jumping up on the CIC console :out:, I generally also like how they did a "Return of the Jedi" stunt where the visited the ships and showed everyone celebrating just as they did at the end of RoTJ when the show all the planets celebrating from the fall of the Emperor.

A nice homage to Geogre Lucas and Co.

Another thing (working backwards here) during the time when they show the view of the Cylon basestar from outside and they show the smoke, if you look closely enough, you can see the human being ejected from the Cylon airlock. However, I wish they explain who it was. Many of us in the IRC channel it might have been Laird, the Chief from the Battlestar Pegasus deck crew. Who knows, I will have to re watch the celebration scenes.

I think the episode only lack a 100% charge. It was more like 75% talk and 25% action. For this type of episode you really had to balance out both things, and I would have loved to see more of the ships looking around Earth looking for a spot.

They are clearly in Manhattan Island. Maybe not the statue of library side, since it was clearly that the planet had WWIII effect going on.

[Apricot]

I would like to say a couple of things concerning the 5th cylon. First, could you discuss the episode 'revelations' and keep your speculations in the 5th cylon thread? Second, you saw 5 figures in the temple of five for I don't know how many times; that rules out Galactica, a Viper or the Sewage treatment ship being the fifth one altogether.

Some of the answers I have seen here scare me due to their lack of reasoning and intelligence.

[Xenon242]

Could it have been Laird, though? When we saw him, he was on the Galactica flight deck, I don't recall him going to the basestar.

[genji2000]

I am not so sure.

First, you can have the constellations match and be in another star system. It would have to be fairly close (I made a post about the calculations before, but I cannot remember what they are; I was actually trying to prove the opposite but came to the conclusion that they could be quite a distance and see the same constellations).
If you're making a case for it being Earth but not our Earth (a parallel dimension, or even just a fictionalised Earth) then I guess the constellations could be fictionalised, and could have been back in the map on Kobol. I don't buy it (I think it is intentionally our Earth sometime in the near future) but I don't think it's a dumb idea.

Second, notice how you never saw the shape of the continents. Even if several thousands of years past, the continents would still be recognizable. The continents were never shown, which I think was purposeful.

True, but is was enough to see a blue planet covered by cloud. As viewers that means Earth to us.

Third, there was no recognizable skyline. It was just some weirdly shaped buildings. There was no "Charlton Heston (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmw6Jne0tAQ)" moment.

I think it was clearly the Manhattan skyline. It was a typical Manhattan reveal shot - panning along the Brooklyn (?) bridge (which was destroyed) to the city. I don't have the slightest doubt that it was Manhattan, nor that there was a very real Charlton Heston moment, with us (the viewers) meant to cry out "You maniacs! You blew it up! God damn you!" etc.

I would like to say a couple of things concerning the 5th cylon. First, could you discuss the episode 'revelations' and keep your speculations in the 5th cylon thread? Second, you saw 5 figures in the temple of five for I don't know how many times; that rules out Galactica, a Viper or the Sewage treatment ship being the fifth one altogether.

Some of the answers I have seen here scare me due to their lack of reasoning and intelligence.

Hmmm. The sewage treatment ship. You mean the Demetrius? I don't think we've tried that one. It might work.

[Xenon242]

I would like to say a couple of things concerning the 5th cylon. First, could you discuss the episode 'revelations' and keep your speculations in the 5th cylon thread? Second, you saw 5 figures in the temple of five for I don't know how many times; that rules out Galactica, a Viper or the Sewage treatment ship being the fifth one altogether.

Some of the answers I have seen here scare me due to their lack of reasoning and intelligence.

I don't think we need to resort to that sort of talk and putting down, man.

[stavrosg]

Was it just me, or D'Anna looked terrified when we saw her on the planet?

[pagad]

There is a great deal of talk about a nuked wasteland and sure, the geiga counter would give that impression. However, this was clearly the wreck of a ship. This would have a radiological signature.

The planet from orbit look like it had a pretty healthy N-O rich atmosphere and they sure were not wearing radioactive suits. This is still possibly a healthy home, perhaps not one complete with the comforts of home. Better than New Caprica.

Yeah, but the half-life of radioactive particles decays with time, and we don't know how long ago said conflict might have taken place.

I think the definite and deliberate implication - the whole point of the Geiger counter - was that there was a nuclear war.



This is definitely Earth, but when is it? Our past, future or neither?

So long to wait :(

I'm sticking with my theory - this nuclear war was the catalyst for our descendents to leave Earth for Kobol.

EDIT: Oh yes and THIS IS THE BEST TV SERIES EVER

[stavrosg]

Yeah, but the half-life of radioactive particles decays with time, and we don't know how long ago said conflict might have taken place.
I thought that the half-life of a radioactive material is constant, thus we can make very accurate estimations with it.
Anyway, their point (nuclear holocaust) went through anyway. When seeing the earth scenes, I thought "hey, the earth is going through an ice age" (turned nuclear winter afterwards)

EDIT: Oh yes and THIS IS THE BEST TV SERIES EVER
Oh yes, I concur :D

[pinter]

I thought that the half-life of a radioactive material is constant, thus we can make very accurate estimations with it.

Pretty much: the half-life of a radioactive element is the amount of time (usually measured in years) that it takes for a sample of the element to lose half of its radioactivity. The number is a constant for that particular element regardless of sample size, so it's a good way to gauge the age of various materials.

[Jeff O'Connor]

If there is one fault I had with this episode, it's the same thing most have agreed upon. It was too rushed. In fact, going into it and knowing it was a regular-length episode and so forth, I had a serious pit in my stomach it would feel rushed, and it did.

But Jesus, I can't think of a single fault past that.

From start to finish, this piece did not let up. The acting was as good as it has ever been, the writing chiefly crisp and sharp. The character moments, from the appropriately long reaction portions from Adama to Tigh's reveal to the smaller but ever-meaningful 'now I can breathe again; maybe die and find peace' style in which Aaron Douglas portrayed Tyrol being found out, were just pure brilliance.

Alan Sepinwall has pointed out that if there to be something which didn't mesh, it was Tory's portrayal as scheming whilst everyone else was coming to terms with everything. Truly, it was in conflict with the rest of the displayed cast, but I think that's a good thing. This is, while the last in the mid-season, still 'just' the tenth episode of the now-likely-twenty-two-episode final season, so for all the pseudo-closure we received, it is important that even in such a coming-together piece, the writers remind us, we, the starved audience 'til further notice, that there is a hell of a lot of contempt between individuals even within the now-united-gleeful fleet.

Which, of course, got shot to hell to a point with the sorrowful faces depicting what is to come in that last scene. I can't decide whether this cliffhanger is my favorite yet of all those which follow hiatuses, but I might be biased since silly little me reading into The Patriot Resource on a daily uncontrollable basis had for several months seen in 'Sometimes A Great Notion' the alleged assessment that based on sets, Earth was to be post-apocalyptic. And while that can't be taken at more than face value, it sort of spoiled it for me nevertheless. Even still, the masterful approach in which it was done, and the very obviousness of the fact that the following episode is surely going to show the fleet 'plunge into despair', is a worthy stopping place and certainly makes this rank highly.

Favorite scene? The entirety of act... three, was it, from the point in which the action really picked up, with that orchestral chanting beginning to blaze in. Kara's rush through the ship which saved Saul's life and truly began spinning the web of alliance in a more meaningful way than ever before -- from the moment that picked up until the end of said act were easily some of the best minutes in the entire series. Easily.

That and the celebration scene, sure. Loved it all to pieces.

Again, though, I have to reiterate that it felt rushed. Of course, what makes me feel better about it is as I've said before, for all the hooplah and importance, it is still the tenth of an alleged twenty-two hours in the show's final season. (I don't count Razor as more than standalone; I'm referring to the likely increase of the final hour to three in accordance with recent statements.) For that, it is certain that as the show has proven in the past, when the frak hits the fan, we see things sometimes go by very fast, hitting very hard, and then afterword there's the aftermath time in which character reaction to things is more in-depth.

So while I agree with those who state they wished for more time for the leads' reactions to the revelation of the four's reveal (that was fun to type), and find myself calling on it as well, I think episode eleven is going to deal with that much more. I hope, anyway. Because certain dynamics which have already been pointed out really need that. Kara and Sam need more discussion, but there was no time for that in this episode. Tyrol needs to speak with, at least, an Eight or Athena, and I seriously am rooting for him and Boomer in a scene again later on. But there was no time for that in this episode. The deckhands need to react to Tyrol. No time. So on. So forth.

While there is a hell of a lot left down the line, I do hope 'Sometimes A Great Notion' not only focuses on the fallout from Earth, but also on what 'Revelations' had no time for. If that is to transpire, then I think all told, from twelve onward there will be enough time, what with the finale getting supersized, to pace things properly and give us all everything we've yearned for and more.

The final revelation is yet to come.

'Coming Soon.' Really, Sci-Fi? You people are ridiculous.

[jerrywickey]

There is no way to tell which isotope or what concentration the counter was indicating. Moore wouldn't get into that detail anyway. He would find another way of telling us how long ago this happened.

The fifth will have a lot to do with the final resolution of the prophesies.

The big question for me is: Where was the iconic building?

I expected to zoom out to the Statue of Liberty or the Golden Gate Bridge or perhaps Big Ben or the Eiffel Tower. As it is, Moore left us uncertain this is earth's present or near future.

Did those ruins look like they might have been the temple Pythius said was on earth? If so, that is earth in the distant past when the thirteenth colony thrived and before some disaster which gave rise to the modern epoch of man.

Perhaps shortly after the 13th tribe blew themselves up just in time to not save their colonial brethren, the alliance collapses and the other cylons arrive. All hell breaks loose and the fifth cylon heralds the extinguishing of man and man's machines leaving a small contingent of men, all technology removed, to rebuild man kind on earth and start every thing again.

Jerry

[LSOP]

So what was it that destroyed Manhattan?

[They are clearly in Manhattan Island. Maybe not the statue of library side, since it was clearly that the planet had WWIII effect going on.

I think it was clearly the Manhattan skyline. It was a typical Manhattan reveal shot - panning along the Brooklyn (?) bridge (which was destroyed) to the city. I don't have the slightest doubt that it was Manhattan, nor that there was a very real Charlton Heston moment, with us (the viewers) meant to cry out "You maniacs! You blew it up! God damn you!" etc.

Now wait a minute. In my opinion that skyline has no discernable markers to say it was Manhattan, or San Francisco, or Baltimore, or L.A., London, or Pittsburgh, or Sydney, or St. Louis, or Caprica for that matter. There are suspension bridges all over the world that could look like that bridge, and you could take a picture of it from the right angle and roughly match it up. In fact, there are many that would look more like the ruined bridge in the ep than the Brooklyn. If you look at it closely, it doesn't have the same architectural masonry details as the Brooklyn bridge, plus it appears to be a one-arch parapet, where the other is two. It could be the Brooklyn bridge, but there are no definitive clues to prove that it is. I think that city could be anywhere on the earth.

Yes, I do still think it is the earth. The constellations were right, and the transponder led them there. But I think it is a time far in our future, and who knows what sort of cities might have existed then.

As someone else surmised, this state of decay and radioactivity makes it seem like it happened about 100 years ago or less. Whether the whole planet is desolate like this or just the major city centers, remains to be seen. I do think that they landed where the transponder was transmitting from.

I hope this is going to reinforce the hard lessons both sides have been learning about war vs. peace. Hopefully it will solidify the alliance between the rebel cylons and the humans as they move forward.

If they don't find any good large chunks of earth left worthy to live on, then I think they will go back to Kobol. The visions are probably leading them there anyway. But whatever they do, I'm sure they realize they will have to deal with the 1/4/5/Boomer cylons before they can live in peace.

[Proxenus]

If you're making a case for it being Earth but not our Earth (a parallel dimension, or even just a fictionalised Earth) then I guess the constellations could be fictionalised, and could have been back in the map on Kobol. I don't buy it (I think it is intentionally our Earth sometime in the near future) but I don't think it's a dumb idea.

I am not making the case that the planet they found is a fictionalized Earth. I am saying that it is conceivable that it is not earth.

My first point is that Lieutenant Gaeta confirms their position by the constellations. However, you can see those constellations from other planets. I learned this to my chagrin when I was making an argument that the writers made a mistake when they showed the Orion constellation in The Ties that Bind (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/The_Ties_That_Bind).

True, but is was enough to see a blue planet covered by cloud. As viewers that means Earth to us.

Kobol was shown as a blue planet covered by clouds. I think Caprica was also shows as a blue planet covered by clouds.

My point (which is related to the subsequent point) is that if the writers wanted to remove any doubt that the planet was Earth, they could have shown a continent in the shape of one on Earth. As it stands, we only have Kara's word on it (even the Four aren't sure).

I think it was clearly the Manhattan skyline. It was a typical Manhattan reveal shot - panning along the Brooklyn (?) bridge (which was destroyed) to the city. I don't have the slightest doubt that it was Manhattan, nor that there was a very real Charlton Heston moment, with us (the viewers) meant to cry out "You maniacs! You blew it up! God damn you!" etc.

That half-blown up bridge is not the Brooklyn Bridge. It could be a bridge in New York City, but it's definitely not the Brooklyn Bridge. It vaguely looks like the bridge in the I, Robot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%2C_Robot_%28film%29) film.

The skyline looks like a city, but is it Manhattan? I see no references that confirm it is. As above, if the writers wanted it to definitely be identified as Earth, the writers could have easily included an identifiable landmark.

Since they did not include a landmark or something that definitely identifies the planet as Earth, there is a possibility that the planet is not Earth, but another planet on the way to Earth.

[Starstruck]

I would like to say a couple of things concerning the 5th cylon. First, could you discuss the episode 'revelations' and keep your speculations in the 5th cylon thread? Second, you saw 5 figures in the temple of five for I don't know how many times; that rules out Galactica, a Viper or the Sewage treatment ship being the fifth one altogether.

Some of the answers I have seen here scare me due to their lack of reasoning and intelligence.

Listen, Apricot (seriously, Apricot?), we are discussing everything about "Revelations" here that we feel like discussing, including the final cylon, first because we want to (and I can't imagine why you would feel the right to tell other here what to do on your second post) and second, because this is a known spoiler zone, so anyone who hasn't been able to see the episode yet can more easily avoid this thread than others. I always try to do that the first few days.

If you don't like the way things are done here, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Seriously, this is the second newbie to come in here with a big old attitude in the past week. It pisses me off. We're respectful here and don't need this kind of crap.

[Jeff O'Connor]

If there is one fault I had with this episode, it's the same thing most have agreed upon. It was too rushed. In fact, going into it and knowing it was a regular-length episode and so forth, I had a serious pit in my stomach it would feel rushed, and it did.

But Jesus, I can't think of a single fault past that.

From start to finish, this piece did not let up. The acting was as good as it has ever been, the writing chiefly crisp and sharp. The character moments, from the appropriately long reaction portions from Adama to Tigh's reveal to the smaller but ever-meaningful 'now I can breathe again; maybe die and find peace' style in which Aaron Douglas portrayed Tyrol being found out, were just pure brilliance.

Alan Sepinwall has pointed out that if there to be something which didn't mesh, it was Tory's portrayal as scheming whilst everyone else was coming to terms with everything. Truly, it was in conflict with the rest of the displayed cast, but I think that's a good thing. This is, while the last in the mid-season, still 'just' the tenth episode of the now-likely-twenty-two-episode final season, so for all the pseudo-closure we received, it is important that even in such a coming-together piece, the writers remind us, we, the starved audience 'til further notice, that there is a hell of a lot of contempt between individuals even within the now-united-gleeful fleet.

Which, of course, got shot to hell to a point with the sorrowful faces depicting what is to come in that last scene. I can't decide whether this cliffhanger is my favorite yet of all those which follow hiatuses, but I might be biased since silly little me reading into The Patriot Resource on a daily uncontrollable basis had for several months seen in 'Sometimes A Great Notion' the alleged assessment that based on sets, Earth was to be post-apocalyptic. And while that can't be taken at more than face value, it sort of spoiled it for me nevertheless. Even still, the masterful approach in which it was done, and the very obviousness of the fact that the following episode is surely going to show the fleet 'plunge into despair', is a worthy stopping place and certainly makes this rank highly.

Favorite scene? The entirety of act... three, was it, from the point in which the action really picked up, with that orchestral chanting beginning to blaze in. Kara's rush through the ship which saved Saul's life and truly began spinning the web of alliance in a more meaningful way than ever before -- from the moment that picked up until the end of said act were easily some of the best minutes in the entire series. Easily.

That and the celebration scene, sure. Loved it all to pieces.

Again, though, I have to reiterate that it felt rushed. Of course, what makes me feel better about it is as I've said before, for all the hooplah and importance, it is still the tenth of an alleged twenty-two hours in the show's final season. (I don't count Razor as more than standalone; I'm referring to the likely increase of the final hour to three in accordance with recent statements.) For that, it is certain that as the show has proven in the past, when the frak hits the fan, we see things sometimes go by very fast, hitting very hard, and then afterword there's the aftermath time in which character reaction to things is more in-depth.

So while I agree with those who state they wished for more time for the leads' reactions to the revelation of the four's reveal (that was fun to type), and find myself calling on it as well, I think episode eleven is going to deal with that much more. I hope, anyway. Because certain dynamics which have already been pointed out really need that. Kara and Sam need more discussion, but there was no time for that in this episode. Tyrol needs to speak with, at least, an Eight or Athena, and I seriously am rooting for him and Boomer in a scene again later on. But there was no time for that in this episode. The deckhands need to react to Tyrol. No time. So on. So forth.

While there is a hell of a lot left down the line, I do hope 'Sometimes A Great Notion' not only focuses on the fallout from Earth, but also on what 'Revelations' had no time for. If that is to transpire, then I think all told, from twelve onward there will be enough time, what with the finale getting supersized, to pace things properly and give us all everything we've yearned for and more.

The final revelation is yet to come.

'Coming Soon.' Really, Sci-Fi? You people are ridiculous.

[Helio]

What matters is the picture it paints. We are supposed to think it's post-apocalyptic earth, due to nuclear holocaust. We are supposed to barely recognize the buildings, it hits harder then a cliche recognizable skyline (It could be one block over from where we are now, for all the audience knows). We are supposed to be asking ourselves, "What now?"

But the real question the audience should ask, is why? Why did we believe that the humans could play god and wash their hands of it. Why did we think that they /could/ reach Earth and hide from the things they had done?

It's not enough to survive, but to be worthy of survival; and they've barely gone down that road.

[genji2000]

@ LSOP and Proxenus

Well, okay, if you didn't see a clear intention in the reveal of the ruined city to show a post-nuclear war version of Manhattan then we'll have to wait and see, but for me it was clearly intended and I didn't consider the possibility that it wasn't Manhattan till I came back to forum after watching it. It was a direct reference to Planet of the Apes for me, substituting the famous Hollywood view of Manhattan (e.g. from the end of Gangs of New York) for the wrecked Statue of Liberty. I really didn't think they needed to be any more obvious about it. But, we'll see when the season resumes and if I'm wrong I'm wrong.

As for the blue planet/clouds thing, this was in relation to Kara's description of Earth, which came just a few episodes ago. That's why I think nothing more obvious (like Florida) was necessary.

I really don't think they're going to say "oops, Gaeta cocked up the penultimate jump. It's not Earth. Everybody back in the ships." Nor do I think they'll discover it's Caprica but approached from the opposite direction having flown off the edge of the universe and wrapped around to the opposite edge. Not every single aspect of this show is intended to give the viewers the runaround. Sometimes what it appears to be is what it is.

We're respectful here and don't need this kind of crap.

lol

Listen, Apricot (seriously, Apricot?), we are discussing everything about "Revelations" here that we feel like discussing, including the final cylon, first because we want to (and I can't imagine why you would feel the right to tell other here what to do on your second post) and second, because this is a known spoiler zone, so anyone who hasn't been able to see the episode yet can more easily avoid this thread than others. I always try to do that the first few days.

If you don't like the way things are done here, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Seriously, this is the second newbie to come in here with a big old attitude in the past week. It pisses me off.

I don't think Apricot was telling us to stop discussing the Final Cylon here, just that here is the place to discuss Revelations (in which reference to the Final Cylon is inevitable) and that he'd like to discuss the Final Cylon in a post-Revelations manner, ultimately a fairly futile distinction (since the Final Cylon seems to find its way into just about every thread we have sometimes), but I don't think it was meant to be bossy.

And really - Galactica as the Final Cylon? He's sort of got a bit of a point hasn't he?

What matters is the picture it paints... We are supposed to barely recognize the buildings, it hits harder then a cliche recognizable skyline...

That's right. It's just that when people say "Oh, it's not Earth" and "Where are the iconic buildings and statues?" you feel obliged to point out that they're looking at Manhattan. I think you're right - it's barely recognisable, which is the point, and it's also irrelevant. New York per se means nothing to the colonials, now that it's gone, and nothing to the story: it could be any city on Earth, but they went for the stylistic Planet of the Apes shot, for our benefit.

[Proxenus]

@ LSOP and Proxenus

Well, okay, if you didn't see a clear intention in the reveal of the ruined city to show a post-nuclear war version of Manhattan then we'll have to wait and see, but for me it was clearly intended and I didn't consider the possibility that it wasn't Manhattan till I came back to forum after watching it. It was a direct reference to Planet of the Apes for me, substituting the famous Hollywood view of Manhattan (e.g. from the end of Gangs of New York) for the wrecked Statue of Liberty. I really didn't think they needed to be any more obvious about it. But, we'll see when the season resumes and if I'm wrong I'm wrong.

As for the blue planet/clouds thing, this was in relation to Kara's description of Earth, which came just a few episodes ago. That's why I think nothing more obvious (like Florida) was necessary.

I really don't think they're going to say "oops, Gaeta cocked up the penultimate jump. It's not Earth. Everybody back in the ships." Nor do I think they'll discover it's Caprica but approached from the opposite direction having flown off the edge of the universe and wrapped around to the opposite edge. Not every single aspect of this show is intended to give the viewers the runaround. Sometimes what it appears to be is what it is.

Perhaps it's just the way my mind works, but the first thing that popped in my mind was "I wonder if that is really Earth."

Admittedly, this may be creating a mountain out of a mole hill, but that's pretty much all these forums do anyway. :rolleyes-green:

I'm not saying that the planet is definitely not Earth. I'm just saying that there is a possibility that it isn't.

One other thing occurred to me. At the end of season 3, they do a "jump scene" from Apollo and Starbuck to Earth. In that scene, they show the North American continent and it was green. If Earth is now a desolate post-nuclear wasteland, it wouldn't be that green.

If there was some definite landmarks, this would be resolved quickly. However, the producers did not include any landmarks.

On a side note, does anyone have a screen capture of Lieutenant Gaeta's star map? I seem to remember that his location for Earth was near a cluster of stars. The Solar system is actually in the Milkyway outlands, as it were. The Solar system is not near many stars. So, I'd like to do a comparison between his chart and our star charts.

[genji2000]

Perhaps it's just the way my mind works, but the first thing that popped in my mind was "I wonder if that is really Earth."

Admittedly, this may be creating a mountain out of a mole hill, but that's pretty much all these forums do anyway. :rolleyes-green:

You got that right. :lol:

I'm not saying that the planet is definitely not Earth. I'm just saying that there is a possibility that it isn't.

On a side note, does anyone have a screen capture of Lieutenant Gaeta's star map? I seem to remember that his location for Earth was near a cluster of stars. The Solar system is actually in the Milkyway outlands, as it were. The Solar system is not near many stars. So, I'd like to do a comparison between his chart and our star charts.
Not sure if you mean this:

[gworroll]

One other thing occurred to me. At the end of season 3, they do a "jump scene" from Apollo and Starbuck to Earth. In that scene, they show the North American continent and it was green. If Earth is now a desolate post-nuclear wasteland, it wouldn't be that green.


Depends on the extent of the war and how long it's been since it occured. If it's been a few years, the relatively empty inner sections of the continents would largely recover.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki, our only(and hopefully it stays that way) real world examples of nuclear warfare, have largely recovered physically. Radiation levels are normal now, and the only areas still physically damaged were deliberately left that way as a memorial. Completely off topic but if you ever find yourself in Japan, go to one of these cities to visit these memorials.

Even Chernobyl, which was a much more severe radiological disaster than either of these nuclear weapons(just a much smaller explosion involved), natural plants and wildlife have recovered to a great degree.

The point of these examples, time will allow the affected areas to heal and appear normal from orbit. Areas outside of the direct target zones(and a nuclear war isn't likely to target every square inch of the planet equally), will recover much faster if they are even appreciably affected in the first place.

[turkey]

I'm pretty sure that the planet shown was Earth, albeit from a less recognizable angle than before. I thought I saw Baja California.

The city also greatly resembled NYC, with a bridge looking out at a land mass with water on three sides, although there wasn't enough shown to say for sure that's what it actually was.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

I don't buy into the fact that it was Manhattan, California, or any particular city.

Obviously, it was just similar enough to evoke a sense of realism, a sense of shocking us so that we could associate the image to being NYC, San Francisco, or another part of the world.

It's a "general" skyline that just strikes to be something familiar to us. Beyond that, I sincerely doubt they wanted to confirm where they were at, other than some ruins of some great city.

[Proxenus]

Here is a basic question.

Why does anyone think that planet is Earth?

[turkey]

No, I don't think so-- I think it was definitely meant to suggest NYC. You can see a large stone cross, standing arches, and a bridge leading to what looks like the tip of an island or peninsula.

Just about everybody who's seen it thinks it's NYC. That's got to mean something.

[aylinn]

I'm speechless. I nearly got a heart attack. And it was the first time I was crying for the whole episode. I know it's lame but when Adama started crying I just couldn't help myself. This episode just changed everything.
They found Earth but so what? D'Anna almost made the same mistake Cylons did on New Caprica. The Four are out and whatever awaits them won't be easy.
All of this has happened before but as Lee said it don't have to happen again.
Amazing episode.

[Jeff O'Connor]

Here is a basic question.

Why does anyone think that planet is Earth?

...Because it is.

[Jason1975]

Here is a basic question.

Why does anyone think that planet is Earth?

because Gaeta matched 12 star constellations that they found out in Tomb of Athena on Kobol before went to the surface.

[5th Cylon]

Here is a basic question.

Why does anyone think that planet is Earth?

because the constilations line up(i forget who said that but somebody did) :P

Basically i guess in theory it could not be but when they went to New Caprica, they never said or insinuated it was earth, they just said it was a planet that somebody could inhabit but is a bit rough. When they came to Earth they said this it it, what we were looking for, it's Earth, we just have to take them at face value.

[raist3d]

They have been laying the groundwork for it since Leoben showed up at the Demetrius. If you take Revelations by itself then it was uncomfortable, but they're not best buddies yet.

I found it really sad that amidst all the celebrations having found Earth, Tigh was in his quarters knocking back the whisky. It would have been nice to see him in CIC with one of those underplayed handshakes from Adama to welcome him back, although this might have been awkward given Adama's breakdown.

It was good to see him on Earth with Caprica Six.

I hate to say I must still differ. I watch it a 2nd time and several things felt to me way way rushed through. After a couple of initial "filler" episodes a subject that deserved probably 2 full episodes was resolved in 10-15 minutes. D'anna could have at least heard part of the final 5 talk to her and try to convince her (besides Baltar) or them make a threat or something to that end (indirectly Saul did something towards that end by being willing to kill himself/reveal their identities).

Then in all the hatred that a lot of the fleet has for Cyclons we see a handshake, we are cool and move on.

I hate to say this but I just can't buy it, and I don't see how the previous episodes really layed the groundwork here particularly when D'anna was just brought back online and there was barely any character development for her after that event.

[Starstruck]

Here is a basic question.

Why does anyone think that planet is Earth?

Because the beacon sending signals to the final four was coming from the direction of this planet, and the Hybrid said the final five were from Earth.

Because the final four believe it's Earth.

Because the constellations matched up with the map to Earth.

Because it felt "right" to Starbuck, the one who is supposed to lead them to Earth.

Because it was a blue and white planet that looked like Earth.

Because the ruins are of contemporary Earth-like buildings.

Seriously, why _wouldn't_ you think it's Earth?

[ouiouiwewe]

I find that Sine Qua Non, The Hub, and Relevations are very rush episodes. They could've been great if expanded to 5-7 episodes which permit some descriptions of how Tyrol, Athena, Caprica Six, D'Anna Biers, Tory, and Anders are progressing in terms of their relationship with the fleet or the Cylons.

[Helio]

I can forgive it; they were produced right before the strike and since if the strike lasted long enough, the last half wouldn't have been produced. So they suffer from minor issues that could have been fixed if there wasn't contract expirations threatening production of the rest of the promised run. And they are quite minor timing and pacing issues, add a few transition scenes, and some small trims, and it would have made it feel more natural.

I know it didn't seem like it, but the ballpark of the time the last half took could have been only a day or two, once they knew where to go (and offhand mention of haste), with a jump frequency of every 40 minutes or so (see '33'), it isn't a stretch. What was missing was a concrete time lapse for the audience's sake.

[virgio]

Just a few questions and musings...

I thought the resolution of the conflict between Cylons and humans was rushed as well, especially considering that none of the other Cylons disagreed with D'Annas deviation from the original plan. (other than Leoben's passive resistance, if you can call it that.) However, BSG has a history of closely examining this type of conflict and I can forgive them for rushing through it this time. Also, I think the Cylons were left a bit adrift by recent events and in any situation like that a strong leader finds little opposition.


As for the final shot, do we know that the star maps left behind on, what, papyrus(?) are accurate? Sure, the constellations correspond to Resource A, but is Resource A a reliable source? I thought this was all from religious/mythic books and that kind of text is not known for its accuracy.

Just a thought, I haven't re-watched any of the episodes so I could have forgotten something.

[BklynBruzer]

I know that the city at the end is New York City. That bridge is the Brooklyn Bridge. There's no question in my mind. I've lived in Brooklyn for my entire life, and I make a point of walking across the Brooklyn Bridge once every couple of weeks (A note to non-NYCers, if you ever come here, make that walk, it's amazing). I know this city as well as I know myself, and dammit, that was New York that we saw all fucked up.

[The Dirt]

Some of the answers I have seen here scare me due to their lack of reasoning and intelligence.

That is probably the most reasoned and intelligent comment that I've heard yet. It's not a joke.

[OldManRivers]

What and ending. Explosive! And there is 10 more episodes to go? What the frak are we going to watch happen now? Is the next episode going to start with scrolling text saying "40 years later". haha

That's it. The series finale will be about Cylons and Humans in an arms race to fight off the other Cylons. haha

Possible reasons for finale:
- Earth destroyed itself in Nuclear Holocaust.
- Earth developed Cylons and these Earth-Cylons annihilated the Earthlings, leading a rag-tag fleet to try and find their long lost brothers and sisters: The Twelve Colonies!
- Earth was found by the other Cylons. No, not the Rebels, or their other faction before them, but Cylons even before that.
- Earth was destroyed by another alien race.


I'm putting my money on the first scenario.

[afleaah]

Was it just me, or D'Anna looked terrified when we saw her on the planet?

i dont think it was terror really...

lucy is a person who can talk by simply giving an expression...

so if u notice...she walks around adama and roslin and looks directly at them
kinda like- are you guys sure this is the right place...maybe you got it wrong...or are you screwin with us cylons
and then on noticing the disappointment on adama's and laura's faces she realises that they werent screwin around and that they were on earth
and then she kinda looks shocked around and joins the rest of ppl wonderin wat the frak happened here...

at least thats the vibe i get

[Proxenus]

because Gaeta matched 12 star constellations that they found out in Tomb of Athena on Kobol before went to the surface.

And, as I stated before, you could be quite a distance away and still be able to see those constellations. Keep in mind that no one has a reference to their position in the sky or even the exact shape. It's been a lot of guesswork by Mr. Baltar and Lieutenant Gaeta.

[model. 12]

Part of me loved the fact they found earth, but the episode seemed rather rushed.

But, if i remember rightly they was a quote saying (roughly) that they were glad the writers strike caused a delay in filming as the second half of the series got much better as a result.

Everyone so far seems to concentrate on the relationship between the 12 models and the humans.

Remember the earlier models have independant thought now. they can make choices.

Now what if they decide the alliance is a bad idea? War, again...?

Role on 4.5

[turkey]

Earth was destroyed by the final five-- they came from there, and the last one is very guilty about something. Remember?

[Proxenus]

Each one of these reasons are not a complete answer.

Because the beacon sending signals to the final four was coming from the direction of this planet, and the Hybrid said the final five were from Earth.

That does not mean the planet was Earth. It just means that the beacon was sent.

Because the final four believe it's Earth.

Actually, they are not sure. Colonel Tigh summarized their view when he indicated that he had no idea but Captain Thrace's analysis was as good an answer as anything else.

Because the constellations matched up with the map to Earth.

This is not as much of a sure thing as one may think. I don't know about the twelve constellations, but in The Ties that Bind (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/The_Ties_That_Bind), you could see the Orion constellation. I did some research and discovered that someone could be 40 or even 60 light years away and still be able to identify the constellation.

Furthermore, we don't know if the constellations appear in the same location or even arrangement. On four people actually saw the constellations and they made no recording of it. They would only have their memories to make a reference to the shape.

Lastly, did they account for stellar drift?

Because it felt "right" to Starbuck, the one who is supposed to lead them to Earth.

Do we know that? Keep in mind that she's misinterpreted her feelings before. She was certain that the picture in her head was a comet when it actually was a damaged basestar. So, just because she's "certain" that this is Earth does not mean she's right.

Because it was a blue and white planet that looked like Earth.

Here is an image of Kobol. It's also blue and white. That does not mean it's earth

http://www.freewebs.com/battlestarrs/Kobol.jpg

We have no landmarks to identify the planet as Earth.

Because the ruins are of contemporary Earth-like buildings.

Are they? They just looked like ruins to me. Despite what some people are saying, that bridge is not the Brooklyn Bridge. It's the wrong shape and size.

As far as I can tell, there have been no landmarks to positively identify this planet as Earth.

Seriously, why _wouldn't_ you think it's Earth?

Because I have seen no evidence that it is Earth.

[The Dirt]

I think the main conflict in 4.5 will be between the robotic Cylons versus the humanoid Cylons and humans. There is plenty of foreshadowing by both Cavil and Baltar to show that this is the direction where the show is headed. I think Cavil's faction has no clue where the rebels are, nor do they want to find them for risk of finding out who the final five are. Maybe Boomer plays a role in changing their minds.

I like the idea of the Final Five being the lone survivors of a ragtag fleet that left Earth to find their long-lost brethren in the 12 colonies. Along the way they found the Cylons instead. The show talks about how the Cylons are the children of humanity... well could the Head-peeps (aka re-imagined beings of light) have that kind of relationship as well? Could they be the parents of the human race... a la the Titans to the Greek gods, or the Greek gods to the human race. Or could they be the Earth's version of the Cylons? Some sort of next step in human evolution/development. Perhaps they were responsible for the destruction of the Earth humans, but had a change of heart (hey, the Cylons did) and decided to bring the Colonial humans to repopulate the planet. Yes... there are many holes in my logic here, but it's just something that's been stewing in the old gas can.

Also, why the hell would they go to a planet that's supposedly Earth, but, oops, stupid Gaeta... he pointed to the dot that's 40 light years off the mark. Blame it on the leg! That just sounds like too much bad writing to try and trick us. Next, they would have to explain why they landed on a planet not that far from Earth that is all nuked. Perhaps the Earthlings will explain that this is just their nuclear testing Planet. The reasons that there are no shots that definitively show us that this is Earth is so to keep the viewer thinking and guessing (as we are now). However, if you think about it logically, having this not be Earth would just be a really poor writing decision. BSG writers are far too good to throw us such a ridiculous curveball.

Baltar is the final Cylon. Rewatch The Hub and Revelations you'll see how D'Anna acts toward him.

[turkey]

We have no landmarks to identify the planet as Earth.

I'm pretty sure I saw Baja California in one scene. But, you're right, they never gave us a wide-angle shot so we could know for sure.

Are they? They just looked like ruins to me. Despite what some people are saying, that bridge is not the Brooklyn Bridge. It's the wrong shape and size.

I saw a large stone cross in the ruins, and I'm not at all able to rule out that it was NYC. Care to do up a picture showing us why it can't be?

[james968]

Another thing (working backwards here) during the time when they show the view of the Cylon basestar from outside and they show the smoke, if you look closely enough, you can see the human being ejected from the Cylon airlock. However, I wish they explain who it was. Many of us in the IRC channel it might have been Laird, the Chief from the Battlestar Pegasus deck crew. Who knows, I will have to re watch the celebration scenes.


In Sin Qua Non (?) Laird is mentioned as the one who pulled the Coordinates of the "Hub Battle" from Pike's raptor. So most likely not him. I think it was just a random deck hand. Orange, the New Red.

[Edison]

I enjoyed the episode, and I knew going in that we were going on haitus so I'm more than willing to sit back and wait for some answers.

But I have to ask when do we get new episodes? I haven't heard any set dates.

[CylonCarpetMuncher]

I thought that the half-life of a radioactive material is constant, thus we can make very accurate estimations with it.
Anyway, their point (nuclear holocaust) went through anyway. When seeing the earth scenes, I thought "hey, the earth is going through an ice age" (turned nuclear winter afterwards)
Oh yes, I concur :D

This is way off I'm sure but I'll say it anyway.
What if The only way to save earth from climate change was to cause a nuclear winter thereby keeping the breathable qaulity of our atmosphere there but slag it for awhile to stop catastropic damage - so a reversal of our current climate change. Humans could be underwater, deep in caverns or most probably off planet etc. If they went then Earth is a no go livability for awhile (rad half-life etc.) but the breathable atmosphere, correct ionsphere yadda yadda etc is still there when you come back to live. Also then you have the Noah's Ark (save the animals) and Silent Running (save the trees!). A good quick way to stop carbon emissions right now would be to nuke it all and go away.

[james968]

Per a previous theory:
Human's and Machines fled Earth b/c of Nuclear Holocaust and went to Cobal. Thousand of years ago.

The Geiger counter to me seemed to be indicating SOME radiation, not enough to be of concern. (They are letting a pregnant women wonder around on the surface).

Whereas the radiation back on the Colonial Homeworlds is in the process of killing everything and everyone there. (And will last for thousands of years). Earth is at the end of the cycle. (i.e. Caprica (et al) are dying, earth is being reborn).

My thinking is the Colonials (or at least the majority) will make a go of it on earth. The rest of the season will involve trying to make a go of it. Maybe heading back to the colonies to find/retrieve seed stock, animals, etc (running into Cavil's forces). Internal conflict, blah blah blah.

I hope they change the opening text. Humanity has found Earth is a wasteland, but the opening text is about who is the final cylon. Unless the "Final Cylon" is a gigantic terra-forming machine...I don't think it maters (to the Colonials).

I pretty much expected Earth to be a (long ago) nuclear wasteland. I was also a little worried that as soon as they popped out of jump some type of Earth based Military would attack them. (Either a live military or an automated system).

[turkey]

This is way off I'm sure but I'll say it anyway.
What if The only way to save earth from climate change was to cause a nuclear winter thereby keeping the breathable qaulity of our atmosphere there but slag it for awhile to stop catastropic damage - so a reversal of our current climate change. Humans could be underwater, deep in caverns or most probably off planet etc. If they went then Earth is a no go livability for awhile (rad half-life etc.) but the breathable atmosphere, correct ionsphere yadda yadda etc is still there when you come back to live. Also then you have the Noah's Ark (save the animals) and Silent Running (save the trees!). A good quick way to stop carbon emissions right now would be to nuke it all and go away.

Are you saying that Al Gore is the final cylon? Or maybe the nuking happened in the 1980s, in an alternate universe where Mondale was elected and nuked the planet to vaporize enough stuff to patch the hole in the ozone layer that was the environmental cause celebre of the day.

[ranvir]

Each one of these reasons are not a complete answer.

One has to keep in mind that Earth-like planets are exceedingly rare. So they just happen to find a planet that looks a whole lot like Earth and has many of its properties (can sustain life, has oceans, large continents, oxygen, etc.) that matches the coordinates they've calculated and meets all these other conditions (i.e., Starbuck thinking it's Earth, they get a signal from it, etc.) but it isn't Earth? You're right in that we haven't been given 100%, definitive proof that it is Earth, but that's a huge hell of a coincidence if it isn't . Especially if you consider that there were recognizably human ruins on it.

You're worried that the planet they found is not Earth, despite all evidence in favor of that view (and no evidence to the contrary). So I don't think that's a reasonable worry. Similarly, one might object to you saying that the world they saw wasn't shown to have any of the continents that we know our world has. The imagined objection would go, "Well actually our planet doesn't have those continents... The mapmakers are just lying to us. Or maybe they and the astronauts fell victim to optical illusions... And the cameras used in space ships, though sheer accidental coincidence, malfunctioned and gave us these false pictures that confirm what we have in our maps..." This person is right that we can't be 100% sure that our maps tell us the truth. Even if we ourselves go into space and look down, we could, conceivably, suffer from an optical illusion or otherwise be mislead (invoke all the Cartesian doubts you want). But it's clear that this is, practically speaking, crazy. The chances of us being mistaken are extremely minute. Thus, we assume that our world does match what we see in our maps. To otherwise would be silly. And I suggest this case is very much analogous to the doubt that the characters in BSG really haven’t found Earth. Why think it's Earth? All the evidence favors this view and it would be a huge coincidence if it was all misleading. So the default assumption is perfectly justified and skeptical stance is not warranted.

(Sorry to go on a quasi-rant, but I wanted to make clear why it is perfectly legitimate to think it is Earth that they've found… and be suspicious of any claims that it isn’t Earth).

And honesty I also don't see how, if we found out when the season starts up again that it wasn't Earth, this would be anything short of lame.

[Pnutmaster]

While I agree that the Colonials have found Earth (not Terra. The re-imagined series's 'Terra' was New Caprica), I don't agree that they landed in NYC.

Remember, all this has happened before. The cycle has been completed countless times already. This is not the NYC we know, but its symbolic successor. Besides, as Proxenus said, the 'Brooklyn Bridge' is the wrong shape ;)

On a final note, did anyone else think of the ruins of the Opera House when the camera started panning over the Earth ruins?

[turkey]

The bridge is the wrong shape-- really? The picture in the show isn't clear, but it sure looks like it to me.

[Osprey]

those side by side pix shane posted a couple pages back mean one of only 2 things -- 1. they were in nyc or 2. the graphics teams spent hundreds of labor hours to create that exact skycape JUST TO THROW US OFF!

/not buying 2 no way no how, that leaves 1

[Pnutmaster]

Well, let's take another look...

http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bridgespt3.jpghttp://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3482/bridgespt3.jpg

What strikes me most in this comparison, as well as Shane's, is the visible difference in width between the supports of the bridges. To put it plainly, Brooklyn Bridge's support is a wide rectangle; BSG Bridge's support is a narrow rectangle.

Of course, our viewing angle could be significantly skewed, and/or damage to the bridge could have warped its shape, but the proportion in size between the BSG Bridge's roadbed and support suggest that the viewing angles between the two shots are relatively equal.
http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bridgespt3.jpg

[turkey]

You say the angles are the same, but they're not; look at the peninsula and where it ends on the right side relative to the bridge.

If you rotate the BSG picture to the same angle as the NYC picture, the bridge would look wider.

[ouiouiwewe]

Baltar is the final Cylon. Rewatch The Hub and Revelations you'll see how D'Anna acts toward him. D'Anna has a romantic relationship with Baltar (prolly one-sided).

[Osprey]

given the disarray in which the final cylon bookmaking must be at this point, i suppose gaius is in pole position [fwiw] ...

[5th Cylon]

D'Anna has a romantic relationship with Baltar (prolly one-sided).

from what i remember she was torturing him and Baltar was dreaming of Caprica 6 and yelled out i love you and D'Anna assumed it was ment for her. For somebody who is a complete bitch, it sure easy to get her to fall for you

[genji2000]

from what i remember she was torturing him and Baltar was dreaming of Caprica 6 and yelled out i love you and D'Anna assumed it was ment for her. For somebody who is a complete bitch, it sure easy to get her to fall for you

Well, firstly, after the torture scene she was shagging Baltar and Caprica Six. Secondly, the Oracle told D'Anna that after holding Hera she would know true love. This was never laboured in the show but I believe she does love Baltar.

[CapricaConspiracy]

It doesn't really bother me what part of earth they landed on, but I do think we can be sure it is THE earth. What about the fact that the 4 cylons heard the earth song "All along the watchtower" (which also means that the time period is post-1970's).

I also wanted to post some theories to get some opinions on the original cylons based on what's been revealed about the new show, Caprica. I read that the first cylon was Zoe Graystone, who uploaded her memories and DNA into an online hologram before she died. Her dad created the first cylons (and maybe all the cylon models???), so it would seem to me that he would include that copy of her when he created the final models/skin jobs, if it was him that created the skin jobs. And his wife was a surgeon -who better to combine machines and humans than a computer engineer and a surgeon??? And wouldn't they want to eternally preserve their dead daughter? So I looked up the actors cast in the roles of the Graystone family, and Zoe is blonde haired and blue eyed. Which cylon do we know looks just like that??? The 6. There from the beginning, monotheistic (which Zoe apparently was).... I think the 6 is Daniel Graystone's attempt to recreate his daughter. I've also had vague theories about the head six and head gaius, and the fact that Zoe's boyfriend also uploaded his DNA and memories online, and something about online copies of themselves leaving remnants in each other, leading to a sort of imprint of themselves in each other's heads... the six and gaius, that is. Although I'd thought Gaius had absolutely been ruled out as a cylon, so i don't know how that fits...

Also wondering if other Graystones could have been brought back to life in the final five?? Saul Tigh? Although I've had another vague idea that the final cylon could be a copy of the original creator, thus thought of by the significant seven as their "god".

But then I've thought that Gaeta is a cylon from very early in the series, so really I have no idea.
Congrats on reading this whole post!

[Stulius]

Well, let's take another look...

http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bridgespt3.jpghttp://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3482/bridgespt3.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bridgespt3.jpg

I think the real photo is not from the same side as the future shot. The real one looks like it's been taken from Manhattan, the future picture looks like it's been taken from Brooklyn.

[CylonCarpetMuncher]

RDM's podcast is going to be very interesting - really what's he going to be able to say?

[pagad]

Here is a basic question.

Why does anyone think that planet is Earth?

Because quite simply if it's not then that's just a slap in the face to the viewers.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[Brian A. Reed]

I believe this is Earth. As it's been stated by several people on this board, it would be ridiculous for it not to be. BSG's writers are better than that.

But I am not convinced that they landed in the ruins of New York City. I know this may come as a complete shock to those people who believe NYC is "THE City" (and therefore, the Unquestioned Center Of All Universes), but the ruined bridge is NOT the Brooklyn Bridge. Look at it objectively - the towers themselves are too narrow and there is only one archway.

It may resemble the Brooklyn Bridge, but then again, the Brooklyn Bridge is probably the most recognizable bridge in the world. Viewers are seeing what they want to see. It could be the ruins of ANY suspension bridge going to ANY city situated on an island on Earth. There is nothing in the skyline in the background that says "Congratulations, You've Found New York!" in either a literal or figurative manner. The skyline resembles NYC in the same way that the opening shot of Caprica City resembles any Earth city by the sea (Hong Kong, for example). Again, viewers see what they want to see.

Let's accept what's been given to us: 1.) They've found Earth. 2.) They landed in the ruins of a once-great city. 3.) There are what remains of a suspension bridge amongst the ruins of the onc