Colonials Fell For The Same Trick Twice?

[FullyAutomaticKid]

i was just re-watching the battlestar telly movie....

one thing stuck in my mind. when roslen and adama are discussing putting some new information directory computers on the galactica, adama says something like "many people lost there lives on this shit because someone wanted a new faster computer to make things easier" and later during a tour group the leader starts talking about how everything is manual on the galactica because cylons could infiltrate eve the simplest of computer networks.


so basically the cylons where using viruses during the first war......and again during the second war

so basically the colonials fell for the same trick twice?

[pagad]

They were not expecting a corrupt computer scientist to allow a Cylon that looked like a human to create a backdoor past the Colonial military firewalls in a navigation program, of all things.

When you previously fought a race of walking chrome toasters it is a difficult situation to imagine.

Remember people the CNP was NOT a virus. It had backdoors built into it to allow Cylon inflitration.

[FullyAutomaticKid]

They were not expecting a corrupt computer scientist to allow a Cylon that looked like a human to create a backdoor past the Colonial military firewalls in a navigation program, of all things.

When you previously fought a race of walking chrome toasters it is a difficult situation to imagine.

Remember people the CNP was NOT a virus. It had backdoors built into it to allow Cylon inflitration.

yes the CNP was a back door to allow cylon infiltration.... to upload a virus, meaning ether the cylons where to lazy to come up with a new stratagem or the colonials didn't update there anti virus software

[Jason1975]

yes the CNP was a back door to allow cylon infiltration.... to upload a virus, meaning ether the cylons where to lazy to come up with a new stratagem or the colonials didn't update there anti virus software


Updating the anti-virus program might not help. Alot of the CNP was written or changed by a Cylon. Their could have been code in the CNP that allowed an outside source to shut down the battlestars, vipers and other spaceship that uses CNP. With backdoor, The cylons had easy time circumventing the firewall. If thats how it happened, you do not even need a virus. What is strange is that Colonial Fleet did not have another computer programmer look at CNP before putting in the service. Kendra Shaw saw the vulnerabilities with the CNP in Razor. Why did nobody saw the vulnerabilities with CNP before the attack?

It is a popular theme, in scifi, having your technology work against you instead of having work for you.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Updating the anti-virus program might not help. Alot of the CNP was written or changed by a Cylon. Their could have been code in the CNP that allowed an outside source to shut down the battlestars, vipers and other spaceship that uses CNP. With backdoor, The cylons had easy time circumventing the firewall. If thats how it happened, you do not even need a virus. What is strange is that Colonial Fleet did not have another computer programmer look at CNP before putting in the service. Kendra Shaw saw the vulnerabilities with the CNP in Razor. Why did nobody saw the vulnerabilities with CNP before the attack?

Do you think humans can out think Cylons in computer programming?

It is a popular theme, in scifi, having your technology work against you instead of having work for you.

It's also a common motif in real life too, sadly. :(

[Jason1975]

Do you think humans can out think Cylons in computer programming?



It's also a common motif in real life too, sadly. :(

No, I do not think that humans can out think CYlons in computer programming. However, I do believe that they should check the program before implementing in the fleet. If Kendra Shaw can find the backdoor, You would think that a more skilled programmer would pick it up too.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

No, I do not think that humans can out think CYlons in computer programming. However, I do believe that they should check the program before implementing in the fleet. If Kendra Shaw can find the backdoor, You would think that a more skilled programmer would pick it up too.

Admittedly, I'm willing to let Shaw slide here since she may have had help from Gina.

Also, we don't know how far the infiltration went, or whether or not the code analyzers saw the actual source code, or something the Cylons doctored up.

Further, Caprica had defense to the mainframe computers directly; the Fleet likely believed that they received the original source code, only for it to be swapped via remote access (or via infiltration at the IT level, after all Gina's job was that of an IT professional) before it was shipped on.

We really don't know how deep the rabbit hole goes on this one...

[Jason1975]

Admittedly, I'm willing to let Shaw slide here since she may have had help from Gina.

Also, we don't know how far the infiltration went, or whether or not the code analyzers saw the actual source code, or something the Cylons doctored up.

Further, Caprica had defense to the mainframe computers directly; the Fleet likely believed that they received the original source code, only for it to be swapped via remote access (or via infiltration at the IT level, after all Gina's job was that of an IT professional) before it was shipped on.

We really don't know how deep the rabbit hole goes on this one...

You are right that Caprica had access to the mainframe computers directly. So Caprica Six probably created the backdoor. Sure the Cylons use remote access to gain control of the program and turn off the battlestars, vipers, etc. I think the only person changed the code was Caprica Six and the cylons just took advantage of the backdoor. I do not think that Gina would tell Kendra about the backdoor, since Gina knew that she was a cylon. Also, I think that GIna was on the Pegasus because her network was down and was could not be accessed remotely. So I believe that Kendra found the backdoor all by herself. I just think a military organization would have an independent programmer look at the code before implementing it. Of course they could have used Gina to that.

[eps200]

or posibly it was that kendra knew what she was loking for that always helps its problly easier to find once its been used

[Jason1975]

or posibly it was that kendra knew what she was loking for that always helps its problly easier to find once its been used

Pegasus network was down when it was docked. Since the network was down, no one could use the back door since there was no access to the back door. So, the back door was not used on the Pegasus. Thats how the Pegasus was able to escape. She did not have first hand how the programing worked what it did when it was exploited.

[OTW]

...or whether or not the code analyzers saw the actual source code...

Linux is the only thing standing between us and total annihilation!

[bferrari]

Linux is the only thing standing between us and total annihilation!


THIS!

Also, the whole thing about Cylons breaking into networks is a farce. Especially that time last season when Gaeta had to hardwire-link some Galactica computeres together temporarily along with a firewall. What was up with that?? The only way the Cylons could get to the network in the first place is via "wireless" network which Galactica does not have. The Cylons would have to have a hardwire into Galactica's network which they don't. Big goof up.

[Sparrow]

THIS!

Also, the whole thing about Cylons breaking into networks is a farce. Especially that time last season when Gaeta had to hardwire-link some Galactica computeres together temporarily along with a firewall. What was up with that?? The only way the Cylons could get to the network in the first place is via "wireless" network which Galactica does not have. The Cylons would have to have a hardwire into Galactica's network which they don't. Big goof up.

No..

They dont have the computers networked so Cylons cant infiltrate them.. once they are networked maybe Cylons can get in using the comunications.. renember that in "33" Baltar urged Roslin to cut comunications with Olympic Carrier because he said that the comunications could be used to transmit a virus.. Galactica then issolates all her computers.. Cylons may be able to acess some wireless comunication systems maybe.. but unabble to do anything with them (surelly Galactica has many , issolated each from the other so as soon as they detect Cylon infiltration, wich they can as we saw... they shot down that system and switch to another.. or maybe that wireless comunications system is hardcoded or so protected (and simple) that Cylons cant infiltrate it (to listen to comunications, issue fake orders) but from it would be able to access other computers in the case they were networked

[genji2000]

No..

They dont have the computers networked so Cylons cant infiltrate them.. once they are networked maybe Cylons can get in using the comunications.. renember that in "33" Baltar urged Roslin to cut comunications with Olympic Carrier because he said that the comunications could be used to transmit a virus..

He urged her to cut comms because he didn't want Dr. Amarok revealing his dirty little secrets. Like us as viewers, Roslin can be blinded by packet internet exchange talk.

[BSGfan-atic]

Perhaps with Baltar's reputation as a genius, perhaps the Colonial military was lax in having somebody else check up on the CNP. I do wonder though, how was it that Kendra Shaw was able to find the programming for the backdoor so quickly. If she had help from Gina Invierre, what would Gina's motivation be? Wouldn't it be much easier for the Cylons to let the Pegasus wander around with a still-infected computer system, then blow her out of space in that first battle? Maybe the relationship with Admiral Cain prevented her from functioning as a true Cylon would/should have.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

He urged her to cut comms because he didn't want Dr. Amarok revealing his dirty little secrets. Like us as viewers, Roslin can be blinded by packet internet exchange talk.

If you recall, Adama agreed. Obviously, Adama isn't that blindsided by packet internet exchange talk, since he's the one who disallowed networks on his ship.

While Baltar's motivations for cutting off communication were due to what Amorak knew, that doesn't mean that the excuses he gave weren'ttrue.

[genji2000]

Maybe the relationship with Admiral Cain prevented her from functioning as a true Cylon would/should have.

I like that idea. Caprica Six's love for Baltar didn't interfere with her mission, but active copies are not all the same. Maybe Gina loved Cain and was struggling with carrying out her mission, preparing to do an Athena.

If you recall, Adama agreed. Obviously, Adama isn't that blindsided by packet internet exchange talk, since he's the one who disallowed networks on his ship.

While Baltar's motivations for cutting off communication were due to what Amorak knew, that doesn't mean that the excuses he gave weren'ttrue.

Fair point. I just thought it was worth pointing out that using Baltar's explanation as evidence brings with it an element of doubt because his motives are very apparent and have nothing to do with protecting them from a virus. There are other instances when even Adama simply accepts Baltar's explanations without question because his "intellect surpasses everyone in this room" (paraphrased, I think from Water maybe?), and in this Amorak example from 33 he says he is "inclined to agree" with Baltar, as does Roslin. That implied to me that Adama probably doesn't understand the intricacies of network traffic even if he does broadly understand the dangers of networked computer systems, as he explained to Roslin in the Mini. I'd even suggest that Adama's objection to networks (admittedly wrongly interpreted to be simply Luddite) makes him, in this case, easier to convince. As far as I know, Adama's background isn't in communications, but unfortunately he was was incapacitated during the best opportunity we had to learn how much he understands.

Correct away if that's wrong.

I think the point was that it's a jump to assume the voice network could carry data traffic which could infect the computer systems. The Cylon fleet never manages to disable the colonial civilian fleet as it did the military vessels in the Mini.

[Sparrow]

I think the point was that it's a jump to assume the voice network could carry data traffic which could infect the computer systems. The Cylon fleet never manages to disable the colonial civilian fleet as it did the military vessels in the Mini.

they never listen to any Cylon vessel to begin with, the Cylons appear, attack and the fleet jumps away.. this time however they were directly connecting with a ship suspencted to be in Cylon hands..

Yes he may had say that for cutting conection with Dr.Amarack.... if that doctor actually existed (the closeness of shelly to him and his ephimery in being aboard the Olympic Carrier is enought to plant doubt)

[BSGfan-atic]

Perhaps one thing that we have overlooked in all the discussion about what Cylon technology does to humanity (skinjobs, computer viruses, whatever) is what humanity does to Cylons.

I like that idea. Caprica Six's love for Baltar didn't interfere with her mission, but active copies are not all the same. Maybe Gina loved Cain and was struggling with carrying out her mission, preparing to do an Athena.


Maybe once the humanoid cylons start experiencing emotion (such as love, religious fervor, etc), they start becoming different. This is an emotional "virus," corrupting their original "pure" programming. Athena and Boomer went through this process, ending up in different places, as did Caprica Six and Gina. The Cavil who hooked up with Boomer has also come to be a little different. D'Anna - whoa, what a crazy one she became, eh? The other humanoid cylons eventually decided to "box" her whole line.