A speculation: Final Five from Earth

[Inki]

The cylon project is owned by five final humans from Earth, who are using it to re-establish their culture and to take vengeance on Kobol and its offspring.

Kobol may have been founded in our future by settlers, who came from Earth and fell back on Greco-Roman religious tradition. Later, the 13th tribe returned and conquered Earth, essentially doing what the cylons later did to the twelve colonies. Technology on Earth, however, had already developed sufficiently to store memories and consciousness, and the Final Five, at least, were preserved.

The Final Five became the architects of the downfall of Kobol. Perhaps they used their technology to make certain that everybody on Kobol would die with no hope of resurrection or reincarnation or did something else to explain the remark by virtual Six that all those who died on Kobol were damned.

The Final Five then followed the colonists leaving Kobol. Perhaps they masterminded the original cylon revolt. Anyway, they were able to control and develop the cylons for their own purposes, creating humaniform cylons with Earth-based monotheism and resurrection technology.

This scenario essentially describes a human vs. human conflict, where cylons are unwitting pawns on the verge of displaying independent thought. The Final Five told their creations: "Sure, we are one of you, but let's not have you thinking too much about it".

One weakness in this speculation is that cylons should not need to search for Earth. Well, the cylons do not seem to be very tightly controlled, and maybe this is something that they came up with on their own. Perhaps the Final Five, the colonials, and maybe even some cylons need to eventually join forces, or the complete extinction of all will follow.

Speculation on top of speculation: Perhaps the Final Five only have a limited capability to possess humans. They would require an unused reproducing body to be permanently resurrected, which they have not been able to achieve with cylons, and are therefore looking forward to human/cylon hybrid children. Maybe Hera could be in their sights for this purpose, and downloading one of the final five into her might be an ongoing process for several years until she more or less reaches maturity.

[Inki]

Hmm... no replies. Scared you off, did I?

Do you think that it is too close to the mark, or do you think that it is outrageously wide off the mark? It is pure deductive speculation, which does reconcile the storyline with Earth's known history and provides a scenario for historical events in the storyline.

Please, point out any contradictions that you see between this theory and the storyline so far, if you will. Kara's physical reappearance certainly is a toughy, and I don't have a theory for that one.

Some additional points of speculation:

The Temple of Five could have been the initial refuge of the Final Five on an original outpost of Earth, where they were maintained for a while after Earth's downfall.

What happened to the the 13th tribe? Maybe they perished in their attack against Earth. Maybe they were the first thing on the agenda of the Final Five. The Temple of Five might also be part of an attempt to reconciliate between the Final Five and the 13th tribe.

The jealous god who wanted to rise above others on Kobol would of course be the One God of the Final Five. In their current state, the Final Five might well be able to "give assistance" to their God in small ways. Perhaps they are even capable of creating angelic apparitions or visions to manipulate people.

In this scenario, The Watchtower Four can not really be cylons in any strict sense. I also doubt that they are the actual Final Five per se, whose main essence appears to reside in the Opera House. The best I can do is to suggest that they are somehow possessed by the Final Five, which would also leave their human histories intact.

What will be found on Earth? Could be either the remains or remnants of either the 13th tribe or the original humans from Earth. In this scanario the original conflict would have left a major scar, whatever there is. (Hopefully not Asimov's Second Foundation, though.)

[timbo]

Don´t worry about not getting replies straight off, it takes a while sometimes. It seems like a great idea to me, especially the watchtower four not really being cylons. I would not be surprised if you are pretty close to the mark with most of it. Myself, I find it a bit difficult to follow the complicated ideas that follow long complicated sequences of events, but there are a couple of things in there that I have kind of thought myself. The idea that it might be humans behind everything and the cylons have been used a little, is one that really resonates with me. I think I posted before something about the cylons being the "tool" but not the "agent" of the attack.

Good stuff.

[Starstruck]

Meh, it's too similar to other theories people have posted to get too excited about it. Sorry! ;)

I don't think it's a bad theory, but the possession idea doesn't seem very plausible to me.

[pagad]

Don´t worry about not getting replies straight off, it takes a while sometimes. It seems like a great idea to me, especially the watchtower four not really being cylons. I would not be surprised if you are pretty close to the mark with most of it. Myself, I find it a bit difficult to follow the complicated ideas that follow long complicated sequences of events, but there are a couple of things in there that I have kind of thought myself. The idea that it might be humans behind everything and the cylons have been used a little, is one that really resonates with me. I think I posted before something about the cylons being the "tool" but not the "agent" of the attack.

Good stuff.

*mnngh*

The Watchtower Four (kudos for coming up with that phrase, by the way, it's got a nice ring to it) ARE sodding Cylons, damn it! :mad:

Normal human beings do not have IFF mechanisms in their eyes! Or suddenly show superhuman strength when they have not displayed it before! Or be drawn together by strange music originally created by Bob Dylan!

Yes, RDM has said they are fundamentally different, but they *are* still Cylons.

[genji2000]

*mnngh*

The Watchtower Four (kudos for coming up with that phrase, by the way, it's got a nice ring to it) ARE sodding Cylons, damn it! :mad:

Normal human beings do not have IFF mechanisms in their eyes! Or suddenly show superhuman strength when they have not displayed it before! Or be drawn together by strange music originally created by Bob Dylan!

Yes, RDM has said they are fundamentally different, but they *are* still Cylons.

Take a deep breath. He's not going to give it up.

[thevarrior]

*mnngh*

The Watchtower Four (kudos for coming up with that phrase, by the way, it's got a nice ring to it) ARE sodding Cylons, damn it! :mad:

Normal human beings do not have IFF mechanisms in their eyes! Or suddenly show superhuman strength when they have not displayed it before! Or be drawn together by strange music originally created by Bob Dylan!

Yes, RDM has said they are fundamentally different, but they *are* still Cylons.

At this point that's definitely clear. Otherwise the raiders wouldn't have been able to scan Anders and indicate friend-or-foe recognition.

[timbo]

Messed up again -- this first bit is a quote from Pagad.

Normal human beings do not have IFF mechanisms in their eyes! Or suddenly show superhuman strength when they have not displayed it before! Or be drawn together by strange music originally created by Bob Dylan [/QUOTE]

Normal human beings do not have IFF mechanisms in their eyes! Or suddenly show superhuman strength when they have not displayed it before! Or be drawn together by strange music originally created by Bob Dylan!.[/QUOTE]

Pagad, thanks for the kudos nod. I remember a funny post about not believing something in the face of overwhelming evidence that it is true, I will try to find it.

The eye thing. I think had something fitted into their eye on New Caprica by the cylons. It could have been for any number of reasons. A reciever, a camera (think of the intel they would get from that), a chip to make them think they were cylons to cause distrust and confusion (worked perfectly). Maybe even a sort of bar code that the raiders can scan. They messed up with Tigh´s eye.

Now finally. If I posted here that the moon was made of marmalade, you would shrug your shoulders, roll your eyes and forget it instantly. It niggles you because deep, deep down, there is a seed of doubt. That and my innate ability to annoy.

[Inki]

Best of greetings to you, pagad, and thanks for taking notice. Please, don't blow a fuse, unless you have a resurrection ship handy. :)

Normal human beings do not have IFF mechanisms in their eyes! Or suddenly show superhuman strength when they have not displayed it before! Or be drawn together by strange music originally created by Bob Dylan!

Nor do cylons really have luminous spines, which was a cinematic effect in the miniseries to indicate that there was something different about the gal in question. Yes, they also used it with Boomer, but I read somewhere that they were unhappy with the effect, and dropped it. The same may be true for Anders' eye. How else might you convey the notion of communication with a raider? Pure telepathy, for example, would not be very cinematic. Tory's whacking of Cally could just as well be explained by adrenalin in a situation that was threatening her existence, or by mere artistic freedom. What I am saying is that I would not rely too much on details that may have artistic explanations, unless they start repeating themselves. The same goes for the music. Being a physicist by training, I can only say that one has to be careful when interpreting observations to distinguish likely information from possible noise.

The Watchtower Four (kudos for coming up with that phrase, by the way, it's got a nice ring to it) ARE sodding Cylons, damn it! :mad:

The "Watchtower Four" in the OP came from somebody else, if that was what you meant. If it came from timbo, my kudos also.

Concerning the Watchtower four as cylons we may have to agree to disagree. "Cylon" is a label. Part of the disagreement may be understanding it differently. As I said, I don't believe they are cylons in a strict sense as in being direct derivatives of the first cylons created by the colonials :tos-cylon:, but I am not sure if this matches precisely with timbo's notion. If "cylon" were defined as serving the purposes of the Final Five, then the Watchtower Four in the OP theory might also be called "cylon". There is not yet much direct evidence on what it might mean to be a "cylon" in a Watchtower Four -kind of way. As long as the content of "cylon" is unclear, it might be possible to call anything a "cylon", as some people seem to do. What might be your definition of a sodding-kind of "cylon"? :wink-still:

[Inki]

Meh, it's too similar to other theories people have posted to get too excited about it. Sorry! ;)

I don't think it's a bad theory, but the possession idea doesn't seem very plausible to me.

I would be quite pleased if you could give me a link to a similar theory, as mine is home made, and I might enjoy doing a comparison. :)

The possession part is not really the core of the theory as much as the origin of the Final Five and the historical narrative is. I could probably develop a technically better alternative to "possessed somehow", but I am more interested in seeing if anything in the bigger picture might be at all close to the mark.

[timbo]

Inki, I saw the historical narrative as being the heart of the idea, rather than the soul occupying a host thing. Having read it again, I still wouldn´t be surprised if it were pretty close to the mark. In fact, I think I am gonna pin my colours to the mast, and vote Inki.

[Inki]

Inki, I saw the historical narrative as being the heart of the idea, rather than the soul occupying a host thing. Having read it again, I still wouldn´t be surprised if it were pretty close to the mark. In fact, I think I am gonna pin my colours to the mast, and vote Inki.

Thanks for your confidence. I hope that it will not prove to be horribly misplaced, which would make feel really guilty, although hopefully not quite in a Baltar-like fashion.

[mariarilke]

This theory really appeals to me somehow. I'm not sure why though.

[pagad]

Now finally. If I posted here that the moon was made of marmalade, you would shrug your shoulders, roll your eyes and forget it instantly. It niggles you because deep, deep down, there is a seed of doubt. That and my innate ability to annoy.

...

I think something may have just ruptured inside me.

It annoys me because you're flying in the face of facts! You're seeing a red herring in something that is not going to be taken back. If you are indeed correct in assuming that RDM or anyone else is just going to shout "Surprise! Those guys weren't Cylons, THESE guys are!" then I'm going to stop watching the show because it would just be like, I don't know, Vader revealing in Return of the Jedi that "Naww! I'm not your father! I was just joshing you, the EMPEROR's your daddy!"

Being given implants in New Caprica? What, the Cylons did that and then just forgot they did? Like their programming wiped the memory from their minds? Oh, gods, I've just given you the idea for another ludicrous theory!

:p

[Inki]

Now finally. If I posted here that the moon was made of marmalade, you would shrug your shoulders, roll your eyes and forget it instantly. It niggles you because deep, deep down, there is a seed of doubt. That and my innate ability to annoy.

I think something may have just ruptured inside me.

Hey, guys, really interesting cockfight :madder:, but I would appreciate it if you involved a larger number of on-topic items, so that I could join in the fun :D. Please, don't turn on me now :eek:.

Meh, it's too similar to other theories people have posted to get too excited about it. Sorry! ;)

I think I found what you may be referring to: http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=1234
There are clearly many similarities between my theory and that presented by Pnutmaster.

However, there are also major differences. I went through the historical timelines of the two theories and came up with a list below. Other differences also exist, but I think that they are not equally fundamental, and I do not wish to get entangled into discussing precise interpretations of what the Final Five are or are not, and would rather keep the lid on that can of worms.

Original status of Earth:
- Pnutmaster: Wartorn, probably abandoned
- Inki: Early resurrection technology developed

Settlement of Kobol (from Earth)
- Pnutmaster: 13 Lords of Kobol with followers
- Inki: Normal settlers

Origin of polytheism on Kobol:
- Pnutmaster: Worship of the Lords of Kobol
- Inki: Settlers revert to ancient tradition

Lords of Kobol:
- Pnutmaster: Superhumans with dazzling technology
- Inki: Unspecified (inconsequential idols of worship)

Reason for the 13th tribe to leave for Earth
- Pnutmaster: Forced exile due to ambitious 13th Lord of Kobol
- Inki: Unspecified

13th tribe arrives at Earth:
- Pnutmaster: Probably repopulation of empty world
- Inki: Conquest of Earth, major devastation

Origins of the Final Five:
- Pnutmaster: Members of the 13th tribe
- Inki: Remnants of humans on Earth

Reason for creation of the Final Five:
- Pnutmaster: Unspecified (possibly cloning of priests, but why?)
- Inki: Last resort of preservation

The Final Five are pissed off, because of:
- Pnutmaster: Forced exile of the 13th tribe
- Inki: Devastation of their planet

Calamity on Kobol:
- Pnutmaster: Spontaneous civil war
- Inki: Brought on by the Final Five

Origin of monotheism:
- Pnutmaster: 13th Lord of Kobol? (native to first cylons in an earlier version)
- Inki: Earth

Expected current status of 13th tribe:
- Pnutmaster: Unspecified (happily living on Earth?)
- Inki: Perished or reduced during or after war with Earth

Expected current status of Earth:
- Pnutmaster: Unspecified. (originally wartorn, then repopulated?)
- Inki: Essentially wasted by war, remains or remnants

If some of the summary statements above do not exactly reflect Pnutmaster's theory, I apologize for that, but I did try to faithfully summarize what I understood.

[Inki]

Just thought I'd mention that I will not be updating this theory, because after the mid-season finale airs, I will probably quit hanging around here.

I won't mind this theory just fading away. But just in case somebody might be interested in developing it further, or merging it with some other theory, I could also hand over its symbolic "ownership" in an orderly manner to a worthy candidate. (That likely means the first one to show an interest.)

[Inki]

No knight in shining armor in sight to act as guardian for this gem of a theory. (Nothing unexpected here.)

I therefore declare its treasure troves open for general pillage, plunder, and mutilation.

[Inki]

Hold on still, just one more thought::idea:
What was Baltar really chosen for? Apart from being chosen as an instrument of destruction, he may have been chosen to eventually be a mediator. He was an independent personality to begin with. Being implicated in the destruction of the twelve colonies would further detach him from humanity, and allow him to be moulded into a free agent. As a mediator he would be required to intimately :D know all the parties and not side with anybody. The fact that D'Anna took his place in the Temple of Five, however, would lessen his effectiveness and support some additional plot/conflict development.

Pure speculation: Having been brought down in the process of getting to know everybody, though missing the Final Five, Baltar’s religious position is likely the common lever he can use to once again gain some independent standing among all the parties. Assuming this is true, Baltar is still going with the flow, and has yet to see his role. Perhaps a great notion awaits him sometime in the future - or not.

Pure unsupported speculation, perhaps not very likely, but still: From mediator it might only be a small step to uniting leader. If this were the case, it might open new possibilities regarding the dying leader who is to know the truth of the Opera House. It is, afterall, possible for two leaders to die.

[Lumen]

I have been watching these forums for quite a while, and I thought it was about time that I dived in.

At this point that's definitely clear. Otherwise the raiders wouldn't have been able to scan Anders and indicate friend-or-foe recognition.

Now to be entirely fair, we can't say that the Watchtower Four (sweet name by the way) are cylons. At the very least, they are not the same thing as our regular cylon models. This can be concluded simply because Saul predates human model cylons.

You guys are convinced that because they exhibit similarities to the human cylon models then they are cylons pure and simple. But if there is one thing RDM loves to do us is not make it simple. The 7 cylons would not revere the final five as religiously important figures if they are simply cylons.

I think that we would should agree that yes they exhibit cylon-like abilities, but they are most definitely played a role in the creation of the human cylon models, and still play a role on earth.

Now back on to Inki's theory. Obviously people have made comparisons between inki's and pnutmaster's theories. I like a lot of pnutmaster's theory, but Inki's idea of possesion and the importance Hera makes a lot of sense to me. And would definitely make sense why the Final Five want the cylons to come to Earth.

[genji2000]

I have been watching these forums for quite a while, and I thought it was about time that I dived in.

Hello and welcome.

Now to be entirely fair, we can't say that the Watchtower Four (sweet name by the way) are cylons.

OMG. You're going to be very welcome here, not least by Timbo and sWozzie.

At the very least, they are not the same thing as our regular cylon models. This can be concluded simply because Saul predates human model cylons.

You guys are convinced that because they exhibit similarities to the human cylon models then they are cylons pure and simple. But if there is one thing RDM loves to do us is not make it simple. The 7 cylons would not revere the final five as religiously important figures if they are simply cylons.

I think that we would should agree that yes they exhibit cylon-like abilities, but they are most definitely played a role in the creation of the human cylon models, and still play a role on earth.

It is established and accepted that they're not the same as the S7, largely based on RDM's "fundamentally different" explanation, but also as you explain because the S7 are programmed not to think about them, and they revere them. So, yes, they are different, but according to RDM they are also full Cylons. To me that means they are synthetic life-forms, manufactured entities.

Now back on to Inki's theory. Obviously people have made comparisons between inki's and pnutmaster's theories. I like a lot of pnutmaster's theory, but Inki's idea of possesion and the importance Hera makes a lot of sense to me. And would definitely make sense why the Final Five want the cylons to come to Earth.

As I said, welcome to the forum. :)

[timbo]

Now to be entirely fair, we can't say that the Watchtower Four (sweet name by the way) are cylons. At the very least, they are not the same thing as our regular cylon models. This can be concluded simply because Saul predates human model cylons.

Welcome Lumen, my young fish friend. Take my pocket and walk with me, we have much to talk about.

First, it was just I. Then came Swozzie. Now we number three. It´s not an army, but it is enough. We must join forces now, the hour is getting late.

But please be clearer on exactly where you stand on Tigh and co. Is it a complete dummy pass on the part of RDM, or something more confusing. I myself believe it to be a total red herring - they are not and never have been cylons.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. The friend of my enemy´s friend might be my friend also, it depends who it is.

[Zod]

Welcome Lumen, my young fish friend. Take my pocket and walk with me, we have much to talk about.

First, it was just I. Then came Swozzie. Now we number three. It´s not an army, but it is enough. We must join forces now, the hour is getting late.

But please be clearer on exactly where you stand on Tigh and co. Is it a complete dummy pass on the part of RDM, or something more confusing. I myself believe it to be a total red herring - they are not and never have been cylons.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. The friend of my enemy´s friend might be my friend also, it depends who it is.

Dont listen to him Lumen, Timbo is a bad influence, there is a reason why there is only '3' !!!

[timbo]

Dont listen to him Lumen, Timbo is a bad influence, there is a reason why there is only '3' !!!

Yes, there is a reason why there ARE only three. The three pointed trident, the most effective weapon in the war against confusion. It is Zod you should ignore, Lumen. Once we shared an avatar, but he chose to leave the road less travelled for a safer route. We three shall gain a famous victory, and one day be known as the "Eye Chip Three". They will make a movie with Pitt, Cruise and Damon playing we three. Zod will be played by Merryl Streep as a man, and Genji will be played in a cameo role by Jay and Silent Bob together. Acomputer generated Brando will appear at the end as Ron Moore, who is now God.

[Zod]

Yes, there is a reason why there ARE only three. The three pointed trident, the most effective weapon in the war against confusion. It is Zod you should ignore, Lumen. Once we shared an avatar, but he chose to leave the road less travelled for a safer route. We three shall gain a famous victory, and one day be known as the "Eye Chip Three". They will make a movie with Pitt, Cruise and Damon playing we three. Zod will be played by Merryl Streep as a man, and Genji will be played in a cameo role by Jay and Silent Bob together. Acomputer generated Brando will appear at the end as Ron Moore, who is now God.

so seriously Timbo, we were brothers, man!!! Why have you chosen the dark and easy path, WHY!!!!?!:)

I will be played by Terence Stamp, as he has already played me and knows my character well. Timbo, sorry son, but I can only imagine Anthony Daniels playing your part!!! Genji's cameo will be played well by Ringo Starr.

Timbo blasted my avatar out of an airlock because I stumbled upon his secret identity an his supposed 'law of 3'. 1 more and the apocalypse shall be upon us!! Beware!! repent!!

If the WTF arent Cylons, RDM can be played by a computer generated Alfred Hitchcock. If they are, RDM can be played by Jor-El. My money is on Jor-El.

506 active wiki members
502 believe that the WTF are cylons (of a sort)
3 live in hiding
1 will be revealed

[timbo]

so seriously Timbo, we were brothers, man!!! Why have you chosen the dark and easy path, WHY!!!!?!:)

You left me, man. You took coconut Joe away and left poor Ruby pining. I never choose the easy path. But ok, we are brothers again.

I will be played by Terence Stamp, as he has already played me and knows my character well. Timbo, sorry son, but I can only imagine Anthony Daniels playing your part!!! Genji's cameo will be played well by Ringo Starr.

Who the f##k is Anthony Daniels. Do you mean Anthony Andrews? And do you think Stamp is sufficiently actorly to capture your gravitas. Ringo will have to poshen up his accent to play Genji.

Timbo blasted my avatar out of an airlock because I stumbled upon his secret identity an his supposed 'law of 3'. 1 more and the apocalypse shall be upon us!! Beware!! repent!!

Avatar, airlock, secret identity, law of three, apocalypse, ...what in the name of Jezbethulah are you talking about.



If the WTF arent Cylons, RDM can be played by a computer generated Alfred Hitchcock. If they are, RDM can be played by Jor-El. My money is on Jor-El.

506 active wiki members
502 believe that the WTF are cylons (of a sort)
3 live in hiding
1 will be revealed

Hmmmm, interesting. But we do not live in hiding. We have leapt from the closet and declared our Tighcylonskepticism. And the last, hungering for a redemption that can only be gained by embracing Tigh´s humanity - who can it be?

[genji2000]

Tsk. I think you've both just scared Lumen off.

And don't associate me with any Beatle, living or dead.

[timbo]

Tsk. I think you've both just scared Lumen off.


Lumen, come back

Luuummeeennn, we need you for the movie

Lumen, where are you going, it was just a joke

C´mon man, we can all shower together while we talk things through

LUUUMMAAAAAANN

[Zod]

You left me, man. You took coconut Joe away and left poor Ruby pining. I never choose the easy path. But ok, we are brothers again.

:D


Who the f##k is Anthony Daniels. Do you mean Anthony Andrews? And do you think Stamp is sufficiently actorly to capture your gravitas. Ringo will have to poshen up his accent to play Genji.

Anthony Daniels played C3PO in Star Wars. I thought it was perfect casting myself!! I have never heard of Anthony Andrews, oh, hang on, wasnt he in Brideshead Revisited?? Actually there is a similarity between the 2. I hated Brideshead Revisited though.....even now, as I work where the majority of it was filmed.


Avatar, airlock, secret identity, law of three, apocalypse, ...what in the name of Jezbethulah are you talking about.

oh nothing really, I was bored.



Hmmmm, interesting. But we do not live in hiding. We have leapt from the closet and declared our Tighcylonskepticism. And the last, hungering for a redemption that can only be gained by embracing Tigh´s humanity - who can it be?

Anthony Andrews??

[Zod]

Lumen, come back

Luuummeeennn, we need you for the movie

Lumen, where are you going, it was just a joke

C´mon man, we can all shower together while we talk things through

LUUUMMAAAAAANN

:lol:

[Lumen]

Woah clearly I can't leave this forum for more than a day. My theory is still a bit rusty compared to a lot of people on this forum, so I will still need some time to compose it. But when it comes to the Watchtower Four I think it is more important to discuss who they represent rather than what they are made of. Whether or not they are physically composed of the same stuff as the S7, that is not the issue.

We need to understand how they are linked to the Cylons and their link to planet Earth.

Now some of the major theories regarding Earth are these:



The thirteen colonies were formed based upon an exodus of a war-torn Earth
Inki's theory of the regular colonisation of Kobol by human settlers from Earth
or, the myth passed down through colonial history, which says that the thirteenth colony of Kobol returned to Earth, the home of the Gods

Let me know if there are others, I've just gotten home from work, so I not thinking as deeply as I'd like.

I think a way to answer the origin of the 13 colonies of Kobol is to discuss why do the Colonials worship Greco-Roman Gods. The idea that goes through my head is that Earth was the original home of the 13 Colonies but became a nuclear wasteland from a global conflict. What was left of Earth by the time they had decided to leave Earth was a mixed group of people, with enough knowledge and experience to leave Earth and find a new place to call home. However, the plight of the human race seemed bleak so the remaining survivors chose to send children to become the bulk of the survivng human race. This choice was based purely on the fact that depending on the time it would take to find a new planet to settle on it maybe several decades, and because the human race would need to procreate to survive as a species, young people were the only option.

Because it was necessary for the skills required to stay alive in space to be passed down, the older pilots, doctors, fuel refiners, etc, an education method similar to a "master and a apprentice" was established. As time passed by, the original older generation had died and then their young "apprentices" took their place to ensure the survival of the human race as they travelled through the black trying to find a habitable planet. However because the older generation deemed it important to make sure their apprentices knew the trade they were being taught, little time was made to learn anything else. As the years went by, and as the younger generation began to have children of their own, they were found to be in positions of power but without the knowledge of how to wield it. Knowledge of their past began to fade away into legend, and with very little hard evidence of their past, the younger generation found it hard to answer the questions of their inquistive children. Questions of their past, of their creation and their purpose in life were put forward without any real knowledge of how to answer to it. They began to turn to the little amount of literature (which I would assume would predominantly be books, due to Adama's fondness for leather bound books, which indicates their is still quite a market for them in present day Battlestar Galactica), the literature in this case turns out to be the pantheon of Greek/Roman gods.

The masters of the various trades involved in keeping the surviving human race alive, would become revered as important figures in the stability of the human fleet. However this power that was thrust on them and could almost be described as the children in the book the "Lord of the Flies", where the young masters were given power but didn't know how they were supposed to use it, so they responded like children with bickering and fighting.

Now I won't speculate at whether this bickering and fighting began in Space or at sometime when they settled on Kobol and for how many generations that their search lasted for, that is irrelevant. What is important is that the masters of these trade revered by their supporters, and the fighting brought people together based upon factors that they could easily relate to, like their race, their job and their particular ideals. What is for sure is that their time spent on Kobol was one where the masters of the trades taught by the original "masters" would be known as the Thirteen Lords of Kobol. Because they were never really taught about history, about religion and all the things that we learnt at school, the time spent on Kobol was a tentative one, where the 13 Lords worked together only to pool their knowledge to create a civilization that mimicked the home of their Gods, Earth. Inevitably, their reliance on each other wasn't able to withstand the disagreements that had with each other, and an all out conflict erupted between them all.

Because I have been typing for a while I am not quite sure where I am going in regards to the Thirteenth tribe's heretical leader, and their departure for Earth and subsequently the Final Five. But due to all 13 colonies combined irrational fear of their vindicitive gods, they deemed that Kobol wasn't ordained by the gods as the appropriate place for human settlement, and each left to find their own planet to settle on, with the warning that returned settlement on Kobol would be exacted with blood.

I am going to bed now, let me know what you guys think so far, sorry if I trailed off a bit in the end and didn't quite explain myself. Anyways let me know what you think of their origin from Earth.

Sorry Inki, I think I've hijacked your thread, admins or moderators let me know if this should be moved into a new thread.

[genji2000]

...when it comes to the Watchtower Four I think it is more important to discuss who they represent rather than what they are made of.

So, who do they represent?

[Lumen]

So, who do they represent?

Jeez you already except me to have the answer to the million dollar question. I am still not entirely on it, you'll have to bear with me for a bit.

[genji2000]

Jeez you already except me to have the answer to the million dollar question. I am still not entirely on it, you'll have to bear with me for a bit.

You done it yet?

[timbo]

Jeez you already except me to have the answer to the million dollar question. I am still not entirely on it, you'll have to bear with me for a bit.

C´mon c´mon, we are waiting.


And do you think this representation is carried out through the watchtower four, or are they not at all involved in the final five mystery? Remember, full membership to the "EyeChip Three" may depend on your answer.

Ten episodes is more than enough time to set part of the story off in another direction. Within an episode and a half, they may have us forgetting Tigh and co as we consider other more interesting possibilities. Imagine if someone had told you Tigh and Chief were cylons two episodes before the end of season three. You would have dismissed it as lunacy. Two episodes in to the last half of season four and the same might happen again. This final five circus has served to keep up interest under difficult circumstances, but I dont think we will need it as the story enters its final stages.

If you look at the top of the page, you will see Timbo - CAG, and a little green badge thing. On the other side you will see two small yellow diamonds and one large one sandwiched between the number 34 (total number of medals) and an exclamation mark. I did not get these accolades by posting nonsense. I am one of the most decorated soldiers on the forum. You will all do well to remember that. Tigh is not a cylon.

dismissed.

[Zod]

But if the WTF arent Cylons, who on earth are?? we'll have no humans left at this rate if another five are going to be revealed apart from Tory, Tigh, Anders and Tyrol!! it'll just get boring, what, are they going to bring Boxey back as 1, Starbuck, Baltar, Roslin and Helo? It is totally ridiculous!!

Remember, there is only one left to be revealed and my money is on Roslin.

[genji2000]

If you look at the top of the page, you will see Timbo - CAG, and a little green badge thing. On the other side you will see two small yellow diamonds and one large one sandwiched between the number 34 (total number of medals) and an exclamation mark. I did not get these accolades by posting nonsense.

Classic.

[timbo]

[


Classic.

Thanks dude.

But if the WTF arent Cylons, who on earth are?? we'll have no humans left at this rate if another five are going to be revealed apart from Tory, Tigh, Anders and Tyrol!! it'll just get boring, what, are they going to bring Boxey back as 1, Starbuck, Baltar, Roslin and Helo? It is totally ridiculous!!

Look, I am sorry about all this, honestly. BUT, take two or three steps back and look at the big picture. Try not to think about the final five without thinking "well if it isn´t them, who is it?". If you consider the various problems with them being cylons that have been posted all over the forum, it is not too far a stretch to think maybe they are not. If you then add in that "and we have been from the start" line, the most obvious red herring I have ever heard, it becomes a little more possible. THEN, if you consider that the first seven are not supposed to think about the FF, and the FF don´t even know they are FF, who the f##k does know what is going on? Tigh and the others have no idea what they are supposed to be doing. Does this sound like a superior form of cylon / lord of Kobol / mastermind?. And if they have to be activated to realise their full FF potential, who will activate them if the other seven can´t even think about them. I am still not playing games here. The WTF being a cylon trick still makes much more sense to me than them really being cylons. Dánna saw the fifth, the one still to be revealed, who must know he/she is a cylon, not the others. She probably knows they have been chipped, and is using this as one of her bargaining chips (see, the word just won´t go away).

[Zod]

[


Look, I am sorry about all this, honestly. BUT, take two or three steps back and look at the big picture. Try not to think about the final five without thinking "well if it isn´t them, who is it?". If you consider the various problems with them being cylons that have been posted all over the forum, it is not too far a stretch to think maybe they are not. If you then add in that "and we have been from the start" line, the most obvious red herring I have ever heard, it becomes a little more possible. THEN, if you consider that the first seven are not supposed to think about the FF, and the FF don´t even know they are FF, who the f##k does know what is going on? Tigh and the others have no idea what they are supposed to be doing. Does this sound like a superior form of cylon / lord of Kobol / mastermind?. And if they have to be activated to realise their full FF potential, who will activate them if the other seven can´t even think about them. I am still not playing games here. The WTF being a cylon trick still makes much more sense to me than them really being cylons. Dánna saw the fifth, the one still to be revealed, who must know he/she is a cylon, not the others. She probably knows they have been chipped, and is using this as one of her bargaining chips (see, the word just won´t go away).


so, let me get this straight, in my mind, Timbo (Mr Cag) either there the final 5 as we know them (well 4 anyway at this time), OR the SS have been conned and there is only 7 models, or there is another FF??? these are the options we have. I feel like Alice(stair,) in Wonderland!!! What a rabbit hole! I still think its Roslin and have been saying it for ages.

[smelly_feet]

[




Thanks dude.



Look, I am sorry about all this, honestly. BUT, take two or three steps back and look at the big picture. Try not to think about the final five without thinking "well if it isn´t them, who is it?". If you consider the various problems with them being cylons that have been posted all over the forum, it is not too far a stretch to think maybe they are not. If you then add in that "and we have been from the start" line, the most obvious red herring I have ever heard, it becomes a little more possible. THEN, if you consider that the first seven are not supposed to think about the FF, and the FF don´t even know they are FF, who the f##k does know what is going on? Tigh and the others have no idea what they are supposed to be doing. Does this sound like a superior form of cylon / lord of Kobol / mastermind?. And if they have to be activated to realise their full FF potential, who will activate them if the other seven can´t even think about them. I am still not playing games here. The WTF being a cylon trick still makes much more sense to me than them really being cylons. Dánna saw the fifth, the one still to be revealed, who must know he/she is a cylon, not the others. She probably knows they have been chipped, and is using this as one of her bargaining chips (see, the word just won´t go away).



The final five are not that important to me anymore, I think there is a third player in the plot that possibly has spies in both cylon and human worlds. I'm beginning to think that head six may not be a cylon. I love how RDM left so many loose spots in the plot so that it can be changed at any point. I also think that Starbucks and Baltars roles are far more important that any cylon's role.

[timbo]

so, let me get this straight, in my mind, Timbo (Mr Cag) either there the final 5 as we know them (well 4 anyway at this time), OR the SS have been conned and there is only 7 models, or there is another FF??? these are the options we have. I feel like Alice(stair,) in Wonderland!!! What a rabbit hole! I still think its Roslin and have been saying it for ages.

Up to now, I haven´t had a strong feeling about who the final five are, only who they are not. Often in our need to have clear answers, we will accept a bad answer until the right answer comes along. We need to be more patient. I still think that the WTF are not cylons, except maybe Tory, but also that there are four more models to come who know they are cylons. I am also beginning to agree that Roslyn is the fifth and has always known.

Zod, we are brothers in search of truth. If you go down the rabbit hole, I will be your guide and carry your packed lunch.

[timbo]

The final five are not that important to me anymore, I think there is a third player in the plot that possibly has spies in both cylon and human worlds. I'm beginning to think that head six may not be a cylon. I love how RDM left so many loose spots in the plot so that it can be changed at any point. I also think that Starbucks and Baltars roles are far more important that any cylon's role.

Fu####g hell, in four lines you have captured the essence of what I think is going on in BSG.
I have been saying for a while that the cylons were the tool and not the agent of the holocaust. This concept of tool and agent keeps popping into my head, and is important, I think. I suspect the third party is human. It´s your classic Greco / Roman tragedy - the Emperor has ten children, one of whom is ambitious to be Emperor, himself. An evil uncle (our third party) manipulates the ambitious son into killing the father, and then either serves as his right hand, gradually gaining power or even userps the son to take advantage of the Emperor´s death to take power himself. I agree about Baltar and Starbuck as well. Especially Baltar.

In fact Smelly, all you need now is to say that you think Tigh has a "think your a cylon chip" in his head, and you can make the Tigh Eye Chip three into the Tigh Eye Chip four. Wait a minute, are you the the last, hungering for redemption etc.

[smelly_feet]

That thought did cross my mind timbo (the chip in the head). On another forum, I cant remember where, someone mentioned an episode in the original BSG where there was some advanced race which was manipulating the cylons and humans. Didn't leoben mentions that what happened before will happen again but more importantly, everyone switches roles? (I think it was when starbuck was interrogating him early in season 1)

[Bureizu]

Inki> I got a similar theory, altough simpler, without the political-weight...

http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=1557

Would like some experts to help me review its factibility... =)