Rail Gun

[Hermes]

According to a recent article about the development of the rail gun by the US NAvy, "The railgun has been a featured weapon in many science fiction universes, such as the new "Battlestar Galactica" series." Which weapons are they talking about? The large guns on Galactica?
http://www.livescience.com/technology/080201-electromagnetic-record.html

[pagad]

For some reason the weapons shown in BSG seem to keep being confused with railguns.

They're not railguns. Railguns fire projectiles at phenomenal speeds - it would look instantaneous to the naked eye.

None of the weapons shown in BSG display that characteristic.

[Sparrow]

Oh no.. this will bring again the debate about if the KEW are or not rail-guns..

i think tought that at least the Viper guns are gauss ones

[Shane]

I asked the BSG Science guy, with no response yet. At the time, he was very busy. I will try to get in contact with again.

[pagad]

I don't see what the issue is. They look like shells, they behave like shells. Why can't they be shells? :lol:

[Dzonatas]

Video of "Firing a Railgun" (http://www.vuze.com/details/F3HINOPAMCIW42EIWN52STMRBKXJRKOD.html)

superhot! In space, it probably wouldn't have such massive friction

The shell is literally disintegrating -- pause or slow play it

[pagad]

...

I want one of those.

Although apparently the gun has to be heavily repaired after each shot.

[Sparrow]

That looks suspiciuously similar to Galactica main guns.. only the later are slower

[Dzonatas]

It's obvious we have the technology to make rail-guns, but the ordinances and ammunitions for it needs to be of a quality that is too expensive.

There is a demo of the "world's fastest gun" somewhere on youtube. It has like 32 barrels arranged in a figure 8 (squarish). It kinda look like a box with holes on one side. I think they said it is a partial rail-gun, where it uses heavy BB like ammunition. The didn't get into how it is only a partial rail-gun.

It fires up to a million shots per second.

[Dwyn2435]

There is a demo of the "world's fastest gun" somewhere on youtube. It has like 32 barrels arranged in a figure 8 (squarish). It kinda look like a box with holes on one side. I think they said it is a partial rail-gun, where it uses heavy BB like ammunition. The didn't get into how it is only a partial rail-gun.

It fires up to a million shots per second.

Ah. The Metal Storm, what a crappy idea.

[Sparrow]

Ah. The Metal Storm, what a crappy idea.

You mean that crap that they claimed could work to kill fires too?

It was embarrasing to watch the comertial

[FullyAutomaticKid]

ok lets just be clear on the use of terminology here

Rail guns:
fire conductive projectiles using magnetic rails, at varying speeds. they can be as slow as and bb gun or super sonic.

while it is possible for galactica to have these i think its unlikely as there are muzzle flashes when her guns fire, much like the chemical projected guns we use today.

Guass Gun :- AKA Coil Gun
also use magnetic principles to accelerate the projectile and also do not produce the muzzle flash we see when the guns are firing.

[Sparrow]

while it is possible for galactica to have these i think its unlikely as there are muzzle flashes when her guns fire, much like the chemical projected guns we use today..


Dunno... still there is that charging noise that preceeds every shot... maybe the writers intend they to be rail-guns but they didnt research that much..

[pagad]

Dunno... still there is that charging noise that preceeds every shot... maybe the writers intend they to be rail-guns but they didnt research that much..

Might not be a conventional method of projectile propulsion, but one that requires charging up.

In any case, sound in space should mostly be considered an irrelevant indulgence on the part of the production team.

[barnmaddo]

Perhaps they are a mix between rail guns and conventional guns. Explosives are used to accelerate the slug some and then the rail gun takes over and adds a little more speed to the slug and/or helps to aim the slug very accurately.

My guess is the weird 4beam cage that seems to make up the last half the barrel is the rail gun, which is primed with a shell shot from a conventional artillery. Similarly fission bombs are triggered using an initial chemical explosion, fusion bombs are detonated with a small fusion bomb, C4 is detonated with a primer (since a normal match isn't hot enough to cause it to explode), airplanes that are catapulted off a carrier...

[Sharon.Valerii]

Let me offer another suggestion on Galacticas Weapons. Maybe they are am Kombination of Old School Gun Barrels and Rockets. That mean, that the guns are firing High-Velocityself propelland Rocket Procectiles. That would explain the "smoke" around the Barrels when the guns are firing, and it explains the high firing speed of the Projectiles. The weapons are called "kinetic energy weapons" So it could mean, that by further propelling the Projectiles with an internal Chemical Thruster ( or something similar ) the projectiles got a high kinetic impact energy.

[Osprey]

this thread really needs the "Nerdy Debate" flag in the title ...
:-)
:-)

[Sharon.Valerii]

You think so, I´m sorry for that.....^^

But I´m only a stupid Toaster ..;-)

[Osprey]

oh, no worries, it's just, imo, that this has become one of the top geek debates we've had -- it's right up there with our attempt at a viper census and/or the previous discussion re: the mechanics of the bucket's main batteries ...

[Sharon.Valerii]

No prob there, i only tried to be funny ^^
And i like discussion of that kind

[FullyAutomaticKid]

Dunno... still there is that charging noise that precedes every shot... maybe the writers intend they to be rail-guns but they didn't research that much..

hmm not quite sure i know what you mean by charging noise, the sound just before the gun hammers away i take as being the hydraulics reseting the gun

i cant find a good video but ive always thought that colonial guns used a form of autoloader (like on the Russian T-72). the mussle flash and fire trail makes me think its just conventional chemically propelled, and probably rocket assisted; shells.

[Hermes]

I must be a geek because I enjoyed reading this discussion. Thanks for all of the thoughts on this.

[pagad]

Perhaps they are a mix between rail guns and conventional guns. Explosives are used to accelerate the slug some and then the rail gun takes over and adds a little more speed to the slug and/or helps to aim the slug very accurately.

I don't think it can be as simple as that - I don't think you can mix the principles behind each method of propulsion.

Besides, doing so would be counter-intuitive. A true railgun would be more powerful anyway.

Since the weapons in BSG take no characteristics from either railguns or coilguns I think it is safe to say they are standard projectile weapons scaled up for use on spacecraft.

EDIT: whoops, old post ¬_¬

[PLAAND88]

Oh no.. this will bring again the debate about if the KEW are or not rail-guns..

i think tought that at least the Viper guns are gauss ones

Viper guns are not likely gauss guns since the ammunition shown in Epiphanies is conventional 20-30mm chemically propelled ammunition.

[Sparrow]

they were full of some chem wich may be the explosive compound to make it explosive rounds


sorry . im an ass and i like to think of them as rail guns.. thats a bound to fail combination here :D

[BSG-27 CinC]

There might be another reason why Railguns might not be used in case of Battlestars. As it so happens, railguns exert very high forces to push the bullet (or shell, if you will) to such high velocities. There is an equal and opposite force exerted back on the turret. In addition, railguns exert a lot of side forces as well (based on what I understand, but open to correction here)

These kinds of forces will lead to structural issues on naval ships but will lead to a different kind of result on space vehicles. There, the force will tend to push the battlestar in the opposite direction of the gunfire as also exert a moment about the ship's three body axes (longitudinal,lateral and vertical) depending on the angle at which the turret is firing with respect to these axes.

If left uncontrolled, the ship will start rolling, pitching or yawing (usually a combination of the three). This is similar to the effect of the Nuclear attack on the Galactica in the miniseries when Gaeta reports that they are in a lateral uncontrolled counterclockwise spin. Of course the forces are much smaller.

To counter this the battlestar would have to fire reaction control thrusters for every round it fires and adjust that thrust depending on exact relative turret angles. But all of this uses fuel.

So a conventional gun that exerts a smaller force would need less fuel to balance out the force and moments whereas the railguns would require more fuel. I would think this is an open question of compromise between fuel usage, navigation control and firepower requirements. You take your choice and live with them.

[Shane]

Ok all! I got the official answer! To the issue on "Weapons in the Re-imaging Series".

To be absolutely clear we can consider most of the "show" of the Battlestar Weapon system a gaff from the created "explosion" when "rounds" are fired off. From Kevin R. Grazier:
RE:> In fan circles, the battlestar and Viper weapons are
> sometimes called
> railguns. However this has never been stated on screen and
> a lot of
> evidence, like the use of chemically propelled rounds,
> points to them
> being conventional guns. Indeed, the exact nature of these
> weapons is
> still being discussed by the production team (some like
> Gary Hutzel want
> them to be based on railgun technology, while some in the
> writing staff
> feel that they are not railguns) (note 2).
AND> Now what is your take of the weapons system. This would
> every much help
> us and put to rest some questions raised by everyone.
>
Ron has said that Galactica's main guns are, in fact, rail guns.
I've certainly always assumed this (despite the fact that we
see evidence of some sort of combusion when they fire).

The Viper cannons are obviously NOT rail guns, as evidenced
by the fact that Tyrol made direct mention of the "gunpowder"
in the rounds -- when Kat's gun exploded (interesting aside:
when I got the script for the episode, I had a friend staying
with me who once worked in an ammunition plant :) . So Kat's
gun exploded because one round was under-loaded. It doesn't
clear the barrel, and the next round comes along and... BOOM.
Clearly this is technology not dissimilar to traditional
"bullets".
Anyway..... I think that pretty much settles the issue.

[Sparrow]

Anyway..... I think that pretty much settles the issue.


Any link where i can red Ron's words about?

is funny because i feeled that the Vipers guns where rail guns .. and that the chemical inside was explosive so when the round hits it explodes ..not the propelant one..
but is still totally logical.. the big guns being rail guns .. while small 20mm guns in the Vipers and the Vipers themselves may be too small to fit the electrical systems needed to power the rail gun ..and choose clasic standard guns instead

If tyrol mentions gunpowder thats it.. Viper guns are classic 20mm autocannons like the guns of the Eurofighter or MIG/Sukhois.. (wich have lower firing rate but are more precise than barrel guns)

[pagad]

Any link where i can red Ron's words about?


Yeah, source on that?

I'm highly dubious because of Ron Moore's fixation on "naturalistic science fiction" in BSG. Calling the weapons in BSG railguns is as inaccurate as calling the weapons in Star Wars lasers.

[Sluggmeister]

its not railguns even if they or someone wants them to be they can not be and they dont act like it they dont behave like it :D
railguns do not fire conventional rounds they can not. to haul shells the size of small cars away with a railgun... you would need a fusion powerplant per coil and the guns as far as i know have no coils. unless some magical wiz made circular tubes work the same but then again if you could make a railgun out of a tube and still establish an electromagnetic field that strong... in that case were talking bacis plasma weaponry. and they also act like any tank turret gun would do the backblast from the severe recoil the obvious trails of either shells or some sort of super fast missiles. a railgun has no recoil atleast not a "proper" railgun thats half the thing with it like maglev trains. its forced motion.