Colonial Civilian Technology before the Fall

[Maxey]

In this thread we speculate and discuss what kind of day-to-day technology did the civilian population on the twelve colonies have before the Cylons nuked everything to hell.

Computer Technology

It is well established that the Colonials have very advanced computer technology, after all they were the ones who created the original Cylon AI. After the First Cylon War, it is implied that a lot of people actually acquired a fear of computers, probably ditching them altogether from their lives. During the 40 years of peacetime it is very well possible that the new generation of people, not having the experienced the horrors of the first war, may have adopted computer technology into their lives without question, maybe only advised by the previous generation not to, at least by the more paranoid individuals.

Note, this is just pure speculation at work, we haven't seen a single example of a home personal computer during the entire series, we can even assume that computer technology may have been simply banned from civilian use and only government organisms are allowed to use them. That, or simply the production team hasn't had a chance to show that aspect of Colonial lifestyle from before the fall.

Assuming the civilians had total access to computer technology then, how much advanced was that technology? Was it comparable to our current technology or better? Did they have internet or something equivalent? I mean, the internet is, simply put, the biggest computer network in the world, and we all know computer networks are a weak spot for Cylon intrusion. Would it be possible that internet existed, but just not on a single global scale like our own? Maybe it was split into smaller, independent zones, isolated from each other, so in case of a Cylon invasion, the whole thing wouldn't go down at once. Or maybe they didn't simply have internet because of that. It would be too much of liability.

What do you think?

[Dzonatas]

It appears the set makers avoided the wall to wall computers scenes that became so familiar with most sci-fi shows. Inside Sharon's apartment (Caprica) is probably the norm. Most of it was portable.

[Maxey]

It appears the set makers avoided the wall to wall computers scenes that became so familiar with most sci-fi shows. Inside Sharon's apartment (Caprica) is probably the norm. Most of it was portable.
They don't show any computers in Sharon's house, just the TV and the stereo. I just re-watched the scenes inside Sharon's house.

About the TV, I find it a bit over-the-top that the producers decided that colonial TV sets would be rotated at that position. I understand it was made to mark a difference between Earth and Colonial TV's, but wouldn't that happen to be uncomfortable for the viewers in the long run and also pretty restricting for creative production? I know it's a very minor detail, after all there's only two instances I recall where they show such TV sets - Miniseries, inside Baltar's house during his interview and on the Season 2 episode "Downloaded" inside Sharon's house - , but you gotta think that the colonials would have soon figured out that having the TV's on an horizontal position is a lot better configuration for watching TV.

[Gort]

Another thing I noticed in the last episode was Roslin listening to Baltar's words on an old type reel cassette machine, which does seem a bit oldish. Also the telephones on the Galactica do have wires, but maybe that's to make it harder to eavesdrop via wireless means.

I actually like the fact that it's not that much different to today in some technologies (mostly the trivial ones), because if it was all completely different, it might well distant the viewer.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Actually, most Colonial technology uses vertical television screens, including the movie theater where D'Anna Biers' documentary is screened for the Cylons on Cylon-occupied Caprica.

I feel that Baltar's TVs were a unique aesthetic choice. No different than some computer screens that can swivel so that they can show both portrait and landscape views, depending on what kind of working environment one wished.

[Maxey]

Regarding computer technology, I don't know what kind of OSes they use, but I'm pretty sure they write their programs in COBOL. :D

[Dzonatas]

In COBOL, man... they must be pretty bummed stuck in the middle of space with those programs and no purple caprica ganja.

[Neakal]

I remember RDM mentioning that the Colonial computers were actually less powerful than those in today's Earth by the time of the Miniseries, both Civilian and Military. The brief shots of a civilian laptop we say in "Sacrifice" gave me the impression of being relatively simple (reminding me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Windows1.0.png) but not much can be said from the pictures alone (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Seshalaptop_216_1080i.jpg http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/e/ea/Seshalaptop2_216_1080i.jpg).

[noen]

Note, this is just pure speculation at work, we haven't seen a single example of a home personal computer during the entire series, we can even assume that computer technology may have been simply banned from civilian use and only government organisms are allowed to use them. That, or simply the production team hasn't had a chance to show that aspect of Colonial lifestyle from before the fall.

Incorrect. Gina Inviere is shown carrying a laptop and working as a civilian network administrator in the Razor episodes. Her PC looked fairly modern to me but I don't recall exactly. There is also every reason to assume extensive reliance on networked computers in the colonies since hacking into the Colonial systems is how the Cylons defeated them.

Assuming the civilians had total access to computer technology then, how much advanced was that technology? Was it comparable to our current technology or better?

These people have FTL and artificial gravity. They can synthesize foodstuffs easily and have the tech to make the Cylons. Including the ability to resurrect Zoe or at least to digitally clone her. This is all way beyond our tech.

[Dzonatas]

The Bucket, in TOS, was said to be at least 100 years (yarhens) old.

[pagad]

I love how, in The Captain's Hand, Garner didn't need some fancy-shmancy piece of technobabble to fix Pegasus' FTL. "Give me a no.12 spanner."

Back on topic, though, we've seen several civilian computers that look aesthetically exactly the same as our own.

And they use QWERTY keyboards, too.

Actually, FTL and astroengineering (and AI before the First Cylon War) are pretty much the only fields in which they are clearly more advanced than we are.

I think a civilian network like the internet would be less of a concern if they kept it isolated from military systems. All the Cylons could then do is disrupt civilian infrastructure (and the viewing of pr0n) :D

[barnmaddo]

They seemed pretty confident that Baltars software would protect their networks from the Cylons, and the Cylons only claim they could break it because Caprica 6 had direct access to the software and opened some holes in its defenses.

I think that the generation after the war adopted new programing techniques that focused more on theoretical proofs of the security of the software then we do now.

[genji2000]

Regarding computer technology, I don't know what kind of OSes they use, but I'm pretty sure they write their programs in COBOL. :D

You know where the door is.

[Sharon.Valerii]

There is something within Colonial technology which I find a little bit irritating.
At First, we have a Civilisation capable of FTL Travel, Artificial Gravity and Advanced Fusion Technology. On the other Hand, they use Internal Combustion Engines on the Average Technology Level of 20th Century Earth.
The Question here is, why is a Civilisation capable of the above mentioned technological advances, who even managed to settle several Planets still in use of
such an enviromentally damaging technololy as internal combustion.

Greetings Sharon

[sporty88]

I believe that it is important to remember that the Cylons do not exploit computers per se, they exploit the networking of them, hence Galactica's largely analog systems and Adama's standing ban on networking at the beginning of the miniseries.

During the miniseries it was expressed that, in the 40 years since the First Cylon War, networking of computer systems had gradually crept back into vogue in military applications, as the perceived threat of Cylon attack had radically diminished.

I see no reason why other government and business uses of computers would not exist; however, except among enthusiasts and profesionals, private use of computers may be rare (due to distrust of the technology).

Given that, in many ways, Galactica appears to parallel mid-1940's to early-1950's technology (Galactica herself has been widely compared to WW2-era aircraft carriers, while, at least to me, the Mk 2 Viper is analogous to the F-86 Sabre jet fighter), if we then look at more recent technologies shown in the series (eg. Pegasus, Mk 7 Viper), it would appear that we get to a technological era close to our mid-to-late 1990's (obviously this also fits loosely to the idea of them being 40 years after the end of the First Cylon War).

Given the premise of the series, it is reasonable to assume that the other spacecraft technologies referred to earlier in the thread appear to predate the First Cylon War, or at least were developed during it.

In response to Sharon's question, as far as I am aware, the show has given no information to indicate what form of engine or fuel the Colonials cars and trucks might use, hence it is impossible to accurately determine the environmental cost of such vehicles.

[genji2000]

There is something within Colonial technology which I find a little bit irritating.
At First, we have a Civilisation capable of FTL Travel, Artificial Gravity and Advanced Fusion Technology. On the other Hand, they use Internal Combustion Engines on the Average Technology Level of 20th Century Earth.
The Question here is, why is a Civilisation capable of the above mentioned technological advances, who even managed to settle several Planets still in use of
such an enviromentally damaging technololy as internal combustion.

Greetings Sharon

Technology doesn't necessarily develop sequentially. An alien species watching us might say "lol - they have OS X but they still use Windows in business".

Technological development is often down to the genius of individuals, who might make a leap in one area leaving other areas behind. This is why we have HD TV and reality gameshows.

[pagad]

It might not be internal combustion. They could be using a different method that produces a less harmful waste product. Tylium, maybe?

I was a bit bemused at the trucks they used on New Caprica, though. Come on guys, it wouldn't hurt to at least make them more futuristic. And why would the fleet have trucks with them in the first place?

[genji2000]

It might not be internal combustion. They could be using a different method that produces a less harmful waste product. Tylium, maybe?

I was a bit bemused at the trucks they used on New Caprica, though. Come on guys, it wouldn't hurt to at least make them more futuristic. And why would the fleet have trucks with them in the first place?

I think I watched the Exodus episodes with commentary and RDM & Co. were very definite that the choice of proper trucks was a stylistic decision for the viewers to relate to. I really liked and appreciated their use - there's something about landspeeders that keeps you away from dirt and the trucks take you right down into it. Plus, the trucks belonged to the Cylons didn't they? And wouldn't the trucks be more practical in the rocky, muddy environment of New Caprica?

[pagad]

Cylons would have made them smooth and shiny. "Dirty and gritty" isn't exactly the Cylon design ethic, whereas it certainly is for the Colonials, it seems.

Mirrors and indicators jar a bit with the implacable machine race thing. I mean, imagine if the Death Star had health-and-safety notices. It's a bit, well, mundane.

All I'm saying is there's only so far you can push throwing in something that a viewer could identify with stylistically. They have the budget, why not create something that is at least subtly different to an Earth lorry?

[genji2000]

...why not create something that is at least subtly different to an Earth lorry?

Ah well that's the point isn't it? The whole ethos of BSG is to make things familiar and normal to us, not to make them futuristic and Star Warsy.

Even the Death Star had a canteen.

[pagad]

Read: subtle :)

I'm not talking something overtly technologically advanced, like a landspeeder. Just something that is suitably more alien in design to us. That doesn't have to mean something gleaming and shiny, but something with different lines that would be slightly less familiar to us, something that marks the Colonies as an alien culture. Like the way they shave off the corners of books and papers, for example.

That's if it's Colonial. If it's Cylon, it should be something else altogether, something that would fit in with the Raiders and basestars.

[genji2000]

Read: subtle :)

I'm not talking something overtly technologically advanced, like a landspeeder. Just something that is suitably more alien in design to us. That doesn't have to mean something gleaming and shiny, but something with different lines that would be slightly less familiar to us, something that marks the Colonies as an alien culture. Like the way they shave off the corners of books and papers, for example.

That's if it's Colonial. If it's Cylon, it should be something else altogether, something that would fit in with the Raiders and basestars.

Well, I agree that Cylon design is more alien, but (given the impossibility of making a spaceship look familiar to us) human design should be very familiar: there's no leeway in making subtle little changes - wherever possible design should look like our own; it's a stated intention with the objective of making it 'real'.

The corners of paper and books is (allegedly) an in-joke, in response to being told by the moneymen to cut corners.

[Sharon.Valerii]

In response to Sharon's question, as far as I am aware, the show has given no information to indicate what form of engine or fuel the Colonials cars and trucks might use, hence it is impossible to accurately determine the environmental cost of such vehicles.

In several parts of the Series they used cars and trucks similar to our current vehicles, like the pick up, Starbuck used to have on Caprica, and the trucks they used in ferrying the prisoners to the cylon killing field on New Caprica during the occupation. To me they look quite clearly like ICE driven Vehicles

[Neakal]

All I'm saying is there's only so far you can push throwing in something that a viewer could identify with stylistically. They have the budget, why not create something that is at least subtly different to an Earth lorry?

Well in "Downloaded", the parking garage contained old cars that were never used in the US to precisely generate this sort of effect (at least on a US-based audience) so its not as if they don't do it. Although I gotta admit sometimes it was a bit weird seeing an identical car to ours. I didn't have that issue with the trucks and humwees but in the end of "the Farm" (i think), the Resistance base had a Land Rower parked which made me go "huh?".

On the other hand, the retro feel isn't necessarily out of place. Major cities like Caprica City looked expressively modern with a bustling air traffic. Background shots of other cities had some futuristic elements too. And we saw Gina and that terrorist woman in Epiphanies etc... using some modern computers. So its not as if theyre not there. I think (and correct me if I am wrong), RDM mentioned that the technology in the BSG-verse (particularly computers) weren't equal/inferior to ours but that they simply had less processing power. So they simply need more human intervention, the most apparent example being astrometrics during FTL. So touch-pads, hand computers, PDA's and mechanical technology (including space technology) can still exist. They just can't perform sophisticated tasks.

Also, the retro style is kinda what allures me in the BSG universe. The idea that "they are like us, except starships" made it, to me, possible to imagine a interstellar civilisation in a near-contemporary setting. Maybe it gives me a bit of hope that I can live to see some of those things come to reality. But at any rate, I think the way life in the Colonies were depicted on a technological level has been very fitting with the overall tone of the series.

On a side note, I always assumed the Cylons brought those trucks from the Colonies or the Colonials had them already in the hangar bay of one of their ships and the Cylons used it for their own just like they used that captured Raptor in Torn.

[pagad]

Oh and another gripe I have is with the guns. I'm sure it wouldn't cost that much to try to disguise the weaponry a little bit the models they actually used. I actually managed to identify each weapon model used by the Resistance and the Marines in some episodes thanks to Call of Duty 4 and Counter Strike :lol:

Back to the issue:

There's retro and there's retro. This is a clearly advanced society. They can fold space in FTL drives and spacecraft are clearly cheap and efficient compared to the clunky real-life ones we currently have the capability to produce.

Realistically there should be some advancement down in mundane real life?

Something the Original Series (from what I've seen of it at least) suceeded in was depicting clear parallels to our society while remaining distinctly different. Alternatively since I haven't seen that much of TOS I might be talking out of my arse but that's what I've gathered.

In all fairness, the miniseries depicted this quite well, I think. It was subtle, but Colonial society was clearly more advanced and different from our own - Baltar being interviewed in his living room (that scene was a nice little twist) and traffic mostly consisting of ships.

[Neakal]

Guns disturbed me initially. Not the handguns but the SMG's etc... seemed too obvious. But I managed to get over that around the time of Exodus and after that, they never bothered me again.

Realistically there should be some advancement down in mundane real life?

A 2000 year old charcoal graffiti in a crevice of an Egyptian temple reads "Lucius was here" in Roman writing.

An official from the Greek city-states fills a report complaining about the behaviour of youngsters, their drinking and criminal habits and mentions how his generation knew their place compared to these out-of-control kids.

Two anectodes I came across years ago. They may not be 100% accurate but enough to make my point. My point? Humanity doesn't change. The technology and appearances may evolve but our behaviour, no matter how "sophisticated" it may look, still aims the same pleasures, same comforts whatsoever. And out designs will reflect our needs and creature comforts with changes made only to make it more functional and comfortable. I agree that Baltar's TV interview was a good example of such subtle change while retaining the basic mode of operation of a television and a nice futuristic touch.

But when you take the futuristic touches too far, you end up with odd or inane designs that would not appear in reality. A newspaper had a picture from some 1950's expo about life in the 21st century and only a small fraction of that stuff shown there is around today. Why? It wasn't necessary to change, say, a kitchen table beyond the way it has functioned and is functioning outside minor modifications.

I am getting sidetracked here. To get to the point, the rare glimpses of Colonial homes we saw (primarily Baltar's, Starbuck's and Boomer's) still functioned in ways that would be expected from bedrooms, living rooms or kitchens. Why complicate it? Why fix something that isn't broken? In the end of the day, a Toaster (I mean an actual toaster like we saw in Colonial Day, which happens to be the only functioning kitchen appliance so far) is a toaster and is designed to make toast.

In all honesty, I would be more alienated if we saw weird/unidentifiable technological items throughout the houses that seemed to be there only as eye candy. The only different household appliance we saw were the TV's Boomer and Baltar owned, both of whom shared the uneven/skewed designs Colonials seem to prefer.

Ok that is how a brainstorm looks like when put on paper.

[mikey728]

It might not be internal combustion. They could be using a different method that produces a less harmful waste product. Tylium, maybe?

I was a bit bemused at the trucks they used on New Caprica, though. Come on guys, it wouldn't hurt to at least make them more futuristic. And why would the fleet have trucks with them in the first place?

To produce cO2, to help warm the planet.