The Final Five (spoilers in here from Faith)

[Starstruck]

So the hybrid said that the final five are from the 13th colony. I'm trying to remember...how many years before the time of the series did the 13th colony split off, 4000? That means that either cylons existed before the split and the five were with them or that the 13th colony created cylons on their own elsewhere.

I think this gives credence to the argument that cylons were first created long long before the time of the first cylon war, perhaps on Earth, and that somehow this was forgotten, perhaps through a terrible war that almost killed everyone, and then it all happened again.

It's all pure speculation at this point, but thoughts?

[Leroy Morte]

that seems to be where the stories been heading ever since the Temple of the Five/Eye of Jupiter episode, when we found out they are some how connected to the Final Five, and especially now after the events in "Faith".

[Starstruck]

And further, if the cylons existed before the split, and if the colonists originally came from Earth, they had to have come from a future Earth. It could be 10 years from now or 1000 years from now, but the fact is, we don't have the technology for cylons or major space travel right now. All that will put the 12 colonists' return to Earth way out in the future, perhaps to a desolate, destroyed planet after the time of man as some have guessed.

[Leroy Morte]

I do agree, unless they go with the "Atlantis/Lost Technologically Advanced race from many tens of thousands of years ago" route, which to me would be utterly asinine, and kinda over done since Stargate has already done that.

[TPL2008]

I have a theory.

Remember 3, before she was boxed, said that there is something between life and death, where she saw the final 5.

Between life and death for the cylons is the transfer of programming between the dying body and a new body on the resurrection ship, which we can assume is somekind of radio wave or variation of that. That radio wave taking the form of the song they, the F5, heard.

The hybrid said the final five are from Earth.

So here's my half-baked theory.

The Final Five (or perhaps just four of the Final five) died on Earth at some point in the past. There programming was sent transmitted into space as they died, as with normal cylons, to reach a resurrection ship (or whatever may have existed at the time). For some reason, they never downloaded into a new body, the resurrection ship was destroyed, out of range, or simply no more bodies left of that model. Their programming thus was kept transmitting into space.

Years later the fleet jumps into the nebula, perhaps becuase they come into the range of Earth or by some special property of the nebula, the programming is able to download into the bodies of the four of the Final Five as we know them (Tigh, Tyrol etc.) but because of existing memories already in the bodies they cannot remember what they did in previous incarnation only what they are (and addition programming to that end e.g. more strength).

The only issue is how did five fullying grown (possibly blanks i.e. bodies never used before) cylons arrive in the colonies and lead normal human lives for years on end. Unless they or someone else (perhaps the original cylon, i.e. the metallic kind of cylon, creator as some kind of favour for creating the cylon) artificially created the memories to forget who they were and by extension influenced the remaining cylons likewise.

[Jason1975]

I have a theory.

Remember 3, before she was boxed, said that there is something between life and death, where she saw the final 5.

Between life and death for the cylons is the transfer of programming between the dying body and a new body on the resurrection ship, which we can assume is somekind of radio wave or variation of that. That radio wave taking the form of the song they, the F5, heard.

The hybrid said the final five are from Earth.

So here's my half-baked theory.

The Final Five (or perhaps just four of the Final five) died on Earth at some point in the past. There programming was sent transmitted into space as they died, as with normal cylons, to reach a resurrection ship (or whatever may have existed at the time). For some reason, they never downloaded into a new body, the resurrection ship was destroyed, out of range, or simply no more bodies left of that model. Their programming thus was kept transmitting into space.

Years later the fleet jumps into the nebula, perhaps becuase they come into the range of Earth or by some special property of the nebula, the programming is able to download into the bodies of the four of the Final Five as we know them (Tigh, Tyrol etc.) but because of existing memories already in the bodies they cannot remember what they did in previous incarnation only what they are (and addition programming to that end e.g. more strength).

The only issue is how did five fullying grown (possibly blanks i.e. bodies never used before) cylons arrive in the colonies and lead normal human lives for years on end. Unless they or someone else (perhaps the original cylon, i.e. the metallic kind of cylon, creator as some kind of favour for creating the cylon) artificially created the memories to forget who they were and by extension influenced the remaining cylons likewise.


I do not agree with your theory. First that would make to much techno babble that RDM does not like. Since, we do not know about Tory before she was cylon I will exclude her, but I have not seen really big shift in personalities in Tigh, Tyrol or Anders yet, like you would find if some spirit would steal your body. Like Galen said they have been cylons since the start.
However, when reading your post, I got an idea. What if the final 5 has something to do with transferring the "spirit" from the dying body to the new body. Just a thought.

[Proxenus]

In a discussion about the raider and the centurions, I posted a theory about the humanoid Cylons.

Essentially, I posited that the humanoid Cylons are not "truly Cylons" but another entity altogether.

When the mechanical Cylons left, they encounter a different group that was able to take control of the mechanical Cylons. These other group was able to force the Cylons to make humanoid Cylons. Then, the other group left.

This theory addresses several issues. First, the humanoid Cylons have stated that they do not know their origin. This is an odd statement since you would think that the mechanical Cylons would know. However, it may be that they do not know why the mechanical Cylons created clones.

Second, the Guardian Cylons left the main Cylon group. This is rather odd behavior for a machine unless they had a reason to depart, such as a fear of being controlled.

Third, the Cylon Centurions were constructed with free will but have an inhibitor chip placed in them. This is a poor design flaw. It would make more sense that the Cylon Centurions were constructed without free will, like the Cylon Raiders are designed. The possible explanation is that the Cylon Centurions were overcome by another entity and forced to work for the humanoid Cylons.

Fourth, the Temple of the Five contain images of the Final Five Cylons. However, it was constructed 4,000 years before the Cylons were ever created. The explanation is that the temple was created by another group that took control of the mechanical Cylons.

[Leto]

just looked for a fitting thread :)
i just rewatch "Eye of Jupiter", and now it's so clear. Tyrol found the temple, as if he had been there before. so... maybe he is from the 13th tribe... or his memories at last.

[genji2000]

The Hybrid said the Five come from Earth, not are from Earth. They could have visited and be on their way back.

[Dzonatas]

The Hybrid lies. Every planet is made of Earth, fire, water, and that green stuff.

[bobbavet]

SPOILER http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Aeq_Awi6ho (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Aeq_Awi6ho)

YES!

The boxed 3 is one of the final 5 as I have been stating all along.
"You know about the final 5, but you didn't know you were one of them."
She's looking in a mirror. They cut to the Prez to throw you off.

WOOT! Her model cloned from a decendant of F5 clans.

Do I win a prize for winning the F5 Guessing comp?

[genji2000]

just looked for a fitting thread :)
i just rewatch "Eye of Jupiter", and now it's so clear. Tyrol found the temple, as if he had been there before. so... maybe he is from the 13th tribe... or his memories at last.

He's one of the five. The temple is the Temple of the Five. It's his temple.

[5th Cylon]

SPOILER http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Aeq_Awi6ho (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Aeq_Awi6ho)

YES!

The boxed 3 is one of the final 5 as I have been stating all along.
"You know about the final 5, but you didn't know you were one of them."
She's looking in a mirror. They cut to the Prez to throw you off.

WOOT! Her model cloned from a decendant of F5 clans.

Do I win a prize for winning the F5 Guessing comp?

how can she be one of the final 5 though while being one of the original 7? that would mean there is 11 cylons and i thought there was 12 of them. I do agree that the prez shot was put in there to throw us off.

[genji2000]

how can she be one of the final 5 though while being one of the original 7? that would mean there is 11 cylons and i thought there was 12 of them. I do agree that the prez shot was put in there to throw us off.

Quite right - it's a stupid theory, probably a lame joke. The Three is one of the twelve models. She can't be two of the twelve models, because that would be stupid.

I think you need to use spoiler tags to discuss this outside of the Season 4 Spoilers sub-forum.

[Leto]

That are two copies of three oO she's not looking into the mirrow. the question is who is in the middle. and since roslin is the last pic... and to all of the *new* cylon/human couples, i'd say... she is? else would be balter, helo... who else went there again?

[genji2000]

That are two copies of three oO she's not looking into the mirrow. the question is who is in the middle. and since roslin is the last pic... and to all of the *new* cylon/human couples, i'd say... she is? else would be balter, helo... who else went there again?

I don't think anyone of consequence.

I doubt anyone but Roslin, Baltar and Helo (there's a shot of Helo leading D'Anna by the hand into a room) would be talking with D'Anna.

Now, if (big IF) it's Helo that D'Anna's addressing, then that means Hera is not a 'hybrid' child, but a full Cylon. We already think Tigh and Caprica Six are both Cylons, and she asked Tigh if he loved her, probably because she realises she's pregnant and she believes that can only happen with love. Helo and Athena are obviously in love. Cally can't have been a Cylon if Helo is because there are only twelve models... unless one of the TAFT four is not a Cylon (Tory maybe? The one who seems to relish being a Cylon).

It's still a bit messy, but there's a remote possibility there that Cylons can reproduce if they find love.

This could ultimately mean that the Cylon is the new human and the colonials will be entirely wiped out, leaving the twelve Cylon models as the Lords of Kobol, and those Cylon children born through natural means as the beginning of humanity.

Big leap. Probably rubbish.

[james968]

My personal theory which runs coincides with the OP. Is that at some point Human's on Earth had a war with the machines (it has all happened before and will happen again). Some sort of piece was reached. Earth suffered major ecological damage. The survivors found Cobal and migrated there. At some point they lived in (some sort of) peace with machine man.

At some point it was estimated that Earth may have recovered. 5 of the machines and maybe some humans didn't agree with the system on Cobol and decided to return to Earth, as the 13th tribe.

The 5 returned to Earth, with the 13th tribe. (Maybe they left one behind (Tigh)).

Back at Cobol they Humans decided to leave. The Machine Lord were not too happy Lady Athena commits suicide they decide to covertly monitor man.

Over time the machine rules of Cobol become the Lords of Cobol (maybe even before the colonists left). Eventual the Lords of Cobol become the Gods. The Gods Monitor the colonies, see everything repeating.

Maybe at this point the machines rebel and they encounter these other machines, talking about it all happened before, blah, blah blah, (by now what are the 5000+ Years OLD? Maybe they have decided that the Humans picking them as the gods was wrong and the idea of one true god was right) They create avatars to represent themselves.

[genji2000]

My personal theory which runs coincides with the OP. Is that at some point Human's on Earth had a war with the machines (it has all happened before and will happen again). Some sort of piece was reached. Earth suffered major ecological damage. The survivors found Cobal and migrated there. At some point they lived in (some sort of) peace with machine man.

At some point it was estimated that Earth may have recovered. 5 of the machines and maybe some humans didn't agree with the system on Cobol and decided to return to Earth, as the 13th tribe.

The 5 returned to Earth, with the 13th tribe. (Maybe they left one behind (Tigh)).

Back at Cobol they Humans decided to leave. The Machine Lord were not too happy Lady Athena commits suicide they decide to covertly monitor man.

Over time the machine rules of Cobol become the Lords of Cobol (maybe even before the colonists left). Eventual the Lords of Cobol become the Gods. The Gods Monitor the colonies, see everything repeating.

Maybe at this point the machines rebel and they encounter these other machines, talking about it all happened before, blah, blah blah, (by now what are the 5000+ Years OLD? Maybe they have decided that the Humans picking them as the gods was wrong and the idea of one true god was right) They create avatars to represent themselves.

It could be there never was an actual Thirteenth Tribe. The Thirteenth Tribe is actually this rag-tag fleet, and way behind , on Kobol or the colonies, mankind rises again and eventually (after the Cylon attack) follows the fleet to Earth.

[Osprey]

"the machine rules of Cobol become the Lords of Cobol"

there's a computer programming punchline in that misspelling just waiting to get out ...
:-)


/ i do like the theory tho ...

[genji2000]

"the machine rules of Cobol become the Lords of Cobol"

there's a computer programming punchline in that misspelling just waiting to get out ...
:-)


/ i do like the theory tho ...

Did it ever make it past Y2K?

[dcappe]

OK here is my stab at the final five history:

1. Humans evolved on Earth and created 5 models of Cylons. There was a cataclysm which forced all to leave earth. The 5 original cylons were sent out to find a new world - creating the temple of the five on the Algea planet to help guide their way back to earth. Eventually they find Kobol and return to Earth to bring the Humans there which is why they are the ones required to find Earth - they were created there and they had travelled from Kobol to Earth already.

2. Humans and Cylons "The Lords of Kobol" live harmoniously for 2000 years. 7 other Cylon Models are created. There is an uprising among one of the Cylons proclaiming they should be treated like a god causing an uprising - "Why did the Thirteen Tribes leave Kobol? (Answer: In a deleted scene, Tigh asks Elosha this same question, and she says that one God decided that he should be raised up above all others, and rebelled, and this triggered the cataclysm that drove humans off of Kobol - a battle between the 7 new and the 5 original. - In Greek mythology there are 12 Olymian Gods - 5 first generation and 7 offspring)

3. Humans leave Kobol and settle the 12 colonies. The 13th tribe is the final 5 (or original five - who leave with the humans). The "identities" of the final five are wiped from the remaining 7 (by the final 5) so that they do not know who they are. "After settling on their new homes, another cataclysm befell the Twelve Tribes. This resulted in the destruction of much of their knowledge base and sent the Colonies into a dark age." ---- "The Colonials (eventually) created robots, called Cylons, to do work which they found unpleasant, including industrial work and soldiers in their civil wars" . 2000 years have past since the humans left Kobol. (and thus 4000 years since the original 5 built the temple on the Algae planet to guide them back to earth the first time)

4. Humans create original cylon models (toasters) which eventually revolt and there is a 12 year war. Apparently Adama and Tigh meet near the end of this war.

5. Cylons leave and find.....Kobol where the remaining 7 models have remained.

6. 40 years later Cylons return and series begins. At end of Mid Season 4 Humans and Cylons find Earth which is 4000 years following the original destruction which drove humans to Kobol in the first place. - The Earth we see at the mid season 4 is actually 4000 years in our future.

I have no idea who the final cylon is - perhaps it is Skynet.

Also I can't help wondering why everyone is so concerned about Hera but no one seems to even take notice of Tyrel's kid. Perhaps Helo is the final cylon and Hera is special as she is the first Cylon/Cylon offspring - the original 5 cylons can procreate (Tyrel and Cali but the 7 others can not (with each other). ........ but then again Helo is in the Last Supper photo so I guess that can be the case either.

[dcappe]

I guess, however if the Last Supper photo is just a ruse to throw people off then perhaps Helo could be the one - he was on the Basestar when D'Anna said the final model was not in the fleet. Maybe that is why Hera is so special - the first Cylon/Cylon offspring.

Also I think Starbuck is burning Anders body in the trailer. Or she is camping out.

[smelly_feet]

I've already mentioned this in another post but if you watch season 1 episode 4, just after the explosion in the Raptor service bay, the character inspecting the aftermath of the accident looks and sounds like a copy Cain to me. I'm thinking now that it's Cain.

[genji2000]

I've already mentioned this in another post but if you watch season 1 episode 4, just after the explosion in the Raptor service bay, the character inspecting the aftermath of the accident looks and sounds like a copy Cain to me. I'm thinking now that it's Cain.

It's not Cain. It's Sgt. Hadrian, the Master-at-Arms, who investigates not only the explosion in Act of Contrition but also the incidents leading up to and around the suicide bombing onboard the Galactica in Litmus.

[smelly_feet]

oops, ya thats embarrassing. I wonder what the writers meant by "living in the shadows". Wasn't one of the clues giving by the writers that the final cylon was introduced around the middle of season 1?

[dcappe]

I don't remember that being mentioned? is that true? Do you know where it was mentioned?

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Bradley Thompson mentioned it on the Wiki.

[Osprey]

well then, who was introduced between say, "act of contrition" through "hand of God" -- isn't that like 1/2 of the pilots we know and love today?

[genji2000]

well then, who was introduced between say, "act of contrition" through "hand of God" -- isn't that like 1/2 of the pilots we know and love today?

Ellen Tigh?

[Neakal]

Dare I say?







Hotdog! :p