Cottle as the Last Cylon

[WCityMike]

We have one Cylon left to meet: one of the "Final Five."

The first type are the numbered, revealed "skinjob" models who've already appeared in the series: Nos. 1 (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Number_One) (Cavil), 2 (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Leoben_Conoy) (Leoben), 3 (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Number_Three) (D'Anna), 4 (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Simon) (Simon), 5 (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Number_Five) (Doral), 6 (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Number_Six) (Number Six), and 8 (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Number_Eight) (Athena/Boomer). The second type are what I'll call TAFT-style Cylons (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Final_Five) (1), a kind of Cylon which doesn't have to match the "can't be a Cylon" guidelines (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Humanoid_Cylon_speculation&oldid=113039) that had existed in the prior three seasons: Cylon possibilities couldn't exist prior to the Cylon War, couldn't have adult children or a verifiable family history. (For example, Col. Tigh has a long, established history amongst humans (i.e., not a fake implanted history) -- we saw flashbacks with a young Tigh interacting with a young Adama long before humanoid Cylons were revealed in the Reimagined BSG Universe (Scattered (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Scattered)).) Since this has proven no longer true, you really can't use logic puzzles to narrow down the candidates any longer -- and so you have to instead think about what makes the most in a "meta" sense -- what serves storytelling purposes for the writers?

(1) To me, "final four" and "final five" get a little awkward, and, besides, I wanted to coin a phrase to describe the specialized type of humanoid Cylon these last four are -- a model that breaks all previously existing understanding as to what limitations defined Cylon versus human. (TAFT is just Saul Tigh (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Saul_Tigh), Samuel Anders (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Samuel_Anders), Tory Foster (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Tory_Foster), and Galen Tyrol (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Galen_Tyrol).)

Based on others' nerdity (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Humanoid_Cylon_speculation) (and I don't use that as a derogatory term -- geek pride!), we do have a few guidelines we can use, however. First, we can say this: one of the show's writers said (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Battlestar_Wiki:Official_Communiques/Archive8#Identity_of_the_Final_Five), "The fifth (which may change) we've been kicking around [as a Cylon possibility] since about the end of Season One." So anyone introduced after the end of Season One is most likely not a possibility. Second, the shows' creators have confirmed that both Hera (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Hera_Agathon) and Nicky (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Nicholas_Tyrol) are half-human, half-Cylon kids; that means that Karl Agathon (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Karl_Agathon) isn't, and Callandra "Cally" Henderson (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Cally) wasn't, a Cylon. Third, there was an Entertainment Weekly picture (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/The_Last_Supper) in which the show's head, Ron D. Moore, admitted (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/The_Last_Supper#The_.22Clues.22) that the Final Cylon wasn't any of the people pictured. Pictured were both (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/William_Adama) Adamas (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Lee_Adama), Roslin (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Laura_Roslin), Baltar (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Gaius_Baltar), and Starbuck (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Kara_Thrace), as well as three of the four T (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Saul_Tigh)A (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Samuel_Anders)FT (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Galen_Tyrol) Cylons revealed at the end of last season.

The main rationale I'd use is that a fifth Cylon has to have a very large punch to the series. The "skinjob" models led up to the revelation of four of the final five, which at the end of last season had everyone going, "What! The! FRAK?!?!?!?" The revelation of the four will be a similar buildup to the Fifth. (In other words, in terms of shock value, skinjob : final four :: final four : fifth.)

So, who is left? Assume that the Fifth is a somewhat major character -- because if it's Third Specialist Fifth Class Joe Schmoe, the fans would riot. When the above are removed, you're left with Gaeta (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Felix_Gaeta), Dualla (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Anastasia_Dualla), Zarek (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Tom_Zarek), Cottle (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Cottle), Seelix (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Seelix), Racetrack (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Margaret_Edmondson), and Hot Dog (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Brendan_Constanza). If you bring in the dead as possibilities (never entirely out of the question), then you add to the equation Ellen (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Ellen_Tigh), Billy (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Billy_Keikeya), Jammer (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/James_Lyman), Kat (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Louanne_Katraine), Crashdown (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Crashdown), Socinus (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Socinus), Elosha (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Elosha), Adm. Cain (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Helena_Cain), and Kendra Shaw (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Kendra_Shaw).

Of the dead, I think we can rule out Ellen, because of her appearance (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Virtual_beings#Saul_Tigh.27s_Virtual_Ellen) in the last episode in Tigh's hallucination (Escape Velocity (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Escape_Velocity)). Dramatically, they wouldn't ruin the revelation by making it a gradual reveal. Kat's cute but she didn't appear in Season One and was more of a comic character (aside from her "noble death" episode) (The Passage (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/The_Passage)). Adm. Cain's story was too nicely wrapped up by Razor (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Razor/Full_Article) -- to me, it just doesn't seem like a good dramatic choice. Billy's story, too, was too poignantly told for his reappearance to be a good dramatic choice: could've been President (Home, Part II (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Home%2C_Part_II)), mom-son relationship with Roslin (Sacrifice (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Sacrifice)), love triangle with Dualla (Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Tigh_Me_Up%2C_Tigh_Me_Down)) -- great potential cut short and loving relationships severed by senseless gunshot (Sacrifice (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Sacrifice)). And Kendra was only introduced just now in the fourth season, and the writers have been kicking around the fifth Cylon as a possibility since the first season.

Returning to the alive characters, I don't think it's Seelix, Racetrack or Hot Dog -- they're good characters, but they're very peripheral to the show, and it'd feel almost as bad a cheat as Third Specialist Schmoe. (Although with Hot Dog being played by Edward James Olmos's son (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Bodie_Olmos), y'never know ... )

Of the remaining four -- Gaeta, Dualla, Zarek and Cottle -- my guess is this: I think the Final Cylon (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Humanoid_Cylon_speculation) is Doc Cottle. And unlike the Final Four already revealed, I think he's always knows he's a Cylon and is going to be an explanatory vehicle for the writers as to the existence of the Final Five, why they break the aforementioned Cylon guidelines, the storyline, etc. I think he's the oldest character on the show, too, which would make making him a Cylon and letting him be an explanatory vehicle be a natural choice. (It even could be that Tigh was introduced as a Cylon to more gradually acclimate the fans to the idea of long-amongst-humanity Cylons, so that when Cottle is revealed, the concept doesn't feel as if it was a last-minute shoehorn into the plot.)

It also makes nice symmetry, as I think there are six kinds (not models, kinds) of Cylon.

Humanoid Cylon, sleeper:
Valerii (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Sharon_Valerii)

Humanoid Cylon, always knew it:
Nos 1-6, other 8s

Half-Mech, Half-Skinjob:
"Hybrids (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Hybrid)"

Full Mech:
Centurion (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Cylon_Centurion_%28RDM%29), Raider (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Raider_%28RDM%29) brains

TAFT-style "Mystical Cylon", sleeper:
Tigh, Anders, Foster, Tyrol

TAFT-style "Mystical Cylon", always knew it:
no characters yet revealed with this traitHaving a TAFT-style Cylon who always knew he was a TAFT-style Cylon would complete the symmetry perfectly.

Of all the possibilities, Cottle also is the one who has repeatedly interacted with and affected the fate of the very top-level characters (Roslin, Adamas, Baltar, Starbuck, Valerii/Agathon). He treated Roslin (cancer) (Act of Contrition (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Act_of_Contrition)), Adama (gunshot) (Fragged (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Fragged)), and Starbuck (leg) (Six Degrees of Separation (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Six_Degrees_of_Separation)), was an effective opposite to Baltar in a number of scenes (Epiphanies (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Epiphanies)), and delivered Hera (Downloaded (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Downloaded)). He had no qualms about treating Cylons during the occupation (Exodus Pt. 1 (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Exodus,_Part_I)), yet wasn't treated as a traitor by the Circle (Collaborators (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Collaborators)). Arguably, also, he's one of the best choices to still get a reaction out of fans: everyone likes cranky ol' Cottle. Throughout the series, he's been the truthteller, the character who consistently "told truth to power"; he's been a nice lovable grump for the entire series -- making him a Cylon would definitely get significant fan reaction.

And as a nice cap to the idea, in D'Anna's last appearance prior to being boxed, we saw her recognize one of the Final Five Cylons and be surprised and apologize (Rapture (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Rapture)). Earlier, during the occupation on New Caprica, D'Anna had interacted with Cottle and had a brief but amiable conversation in which D'Anna was a little smarmy, even, to boot (Exodus Pt. 1 (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Exodus,_Part_I)).

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Well, Cottle might be a choice for a Cylon... if he wasn't the last Cylon to be revealed.

The last someone needs to be someone very integral to the show; Cottle is not. He's just an "anti-McCoy" in every sense of the word.

So, someone with enough punch to knock the wind out of our sails both thematically and dramatically. Out of all those characters that are major to the show (and aren't Cylons): it has to be Roslin, Baltar, Starbuck, either living Adama or even Zarek.

However, EJO has a "no Cylon" clause in his contract. Mary might have the same, though we don't know for certain. Baltar and Starbuck are too much of a red herring, so... an "Apollo". Either old school Apollo (in the form of Zarek) or new school Apollo (Lee).

[Leroy Morte]

No offense WCityMike, but I'm with Joe, although I do like the way you've laid out all of the possibilities. I was thinking it was Lee, but Moore says it's not anyone in the infamous photo, so Zarek looks more and more like a probability than a possibility. But who knows, and we prolly wont know for sure for another 4 or 5 episodes.

[WCityMike]

If it's Lee or Zarek, it'd be Lee. Zarek's not been anything more than an occasional cameo.

Frankly, I still think it's Cottle. He's admittedly not one of the main cast of characters, but of the candidates, he's had the most opportunity to interact with, advise, and influence the main cast of characters. And I think his age figures well with the long history they're trying to establish with TAFT Cylons.

I suppose we shall see. ;-)

[urbanacid]

I love cottle but i dont think its him , mainly because of a comment he makes to boomer bout him not understanding why you people never improved the plumbing. I like the idea that the last 1 knows what it is and has all along.

[Xenon242]

However, EJO has a "no Cylon" clause in his contract.

This I did not know. And frankly, it's happy news, because I really didn't want him to turn out to be a Cylon.

[Shane]

At least someone agrees with me. :D

[WCityMike]

I love cottle but i dont think its him , mainly because of a comment he makes to boomer bout him not understanding why you people never improved the plumbing. I like the idea that the last 1 knows what it is and has all along.

I don't see that as a convincing rebuttal. While interacting with the humans before being revealed, how frequently did D'Anna Biers, Shelly Godfrey, and Brother Cavil reference Cylons as people other than themselves?

[urbanacid]

I don't see that as a convincing rebuttal. While interacting with the humans before being revealed, how frequently did D'Anna Biers, Shelly Godfrey, and Brother Cavil reference Cylons as people other than themselves? not a rebuttal , i think its possible, the problem is me i tend to draw my conclusions on the show on the way things make me feel and the way cottle said it made me think that. Also the others did refrence quite often so you are quite right.

[Xenon242]

The main problem with Cottle as the final Cylon, as I see it, is that it simply doesn't fit the pattern we've seen so far. Each of the revealed F5, so far, have had close dealings and relationships with others in the cast throughout the run of the series, Anders and Tory excepted, as they were late arrivals:

- Anders is Starbuck's boytoy
- Tyrol was involved with Boomer, and married ... erm ... what was her name, again ... ? ;)
- Tory is Roslin's PA
- Tigh ... well, his involvement with everyone hardly needs elaborating upon

In this respect, from our perspective as viewers, each of these people being revealed as Cylons hits us in some way because we've grown accustomed not only to their own behaviours, but also to their various relationships with others, and so one question that sprung to mind (for me, in any case) when they were revealed, was, 'Wow, shit. How will they hide this from <insert name(s) here>?' In other words, each of these have a lot more to lose now that they know they're Cylons than any other character, by virtue of their visibility and relationships.

And along comes Cottle. He gets so little face time that it almost hardly matters to us what he is, despite the fact many people – myself included – really like the character. And as far as we can tell, his relationships are non-existant. When we don't see him smoking at Roslin or cracking wise at someone in sickbay, we don't know a thing about him, so then the writers would have to spend the rest of season 4 after the reveal giving us some sort of back-story on him that would make us buy into it.

Frankly, this being the last season, and with so many other things on the go, and a story to wrap, this would be one of the most ill-advised uses of screen time I can think of. Ditto Dualla, despite the fact we saw her more often.

No, for me Cottle as the final Cylon just makes no sense on any level.

By the way: Welcome aboard, nugget. ;)

[WCityMike]

Hey, you guys made realize exactly who the final Cylon is (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Chantara)! ;-)

Seriously, though, even by your theory, Cottle's a possibility. Compare how much interaction Cottle has had with the main characters with how much interaction Tory has had with the main characters, for example (even compensating for the fact she appeared in mid-series). Cottle saved Roslin, saved Bill Adama, treated Starbuck, treated Athena, delivered Hera, autopsied Boomer, served as Baltar's occasional ego-puncturer in first- and second-season episodes, etc. And in the role I see him in -- a TAFT Cylon who knows what he is, and thus knows the mythology of the series we've yet to be told, i.e., why TAFT Cylons exist and how they fit into the Colonials' and new Cylons' mythology, etc., etc. -- it's not so much that his character would be revealed as a TAFT Cylon for the dramatic purpose of the shock of the reveal (as all the others have), but more for the dramatic purpose of completing the story and providing a conduit by which the answers can be given.

To me, he's the most attractive of the remaining characters. Now ... in my original theory I'm assuming that he actually means it when he says the pictured characters in the Last Supper pic aren't Cylons. I think people saying that he's playing with us are just engaging in mind games with themselves because RDM goofed and they don't want to believe such a big spoiler was leaked so early on.

But were we to not rule them out, then both Adamas, Roslin, Baltar, and Starbuck are ruled back in. If you made me pick a second choice, with Cottle specifically excluded and those characters put back into the mix, then ...

I'd rule out Baltar and Starbuck immediately. The fact that their humanity has been called into question, to me, makes them (in a dramatic sense) certain to be humans. Who's left? Bill, Laura, and Lee. My thoughts get more based on hunches, here. I think of the three, Laura's the highest possibility. She's being set up as very, very fallible this season, even showing I daresay some evil -- that sort of moral grayness has been oft attributed to Cylons in the other seasons. Lee would be my secondary choice (of the three) because of how it would frak with Starbuck: she told Anders recently she'd kill him in a second were he a Cylon. But how would she handle Her One Great True Love being a Cylon? Bill ... the Admiral being a Cylon would just not make any sense to me, storytelling or otherwise.

And thank you for the welcome, sir! *salutes*

[ouiouiwewe]

One mistake some of you are making is that a shocking and well-received relevation does not necessarily have to involve a major character being a Cylon, especially if the final Cylon is not a sleeper agent and has been subtly guiding the fleet to Earth (explaining away the lack of reaction to music). Considering RDM's talent, I am pretty sure he can somehow spin up a reasonable tale that explains away the 5th's existence. And of course, since the 5th's identity is supposed to be a big secret, much of the hints can potentially be dropped in the background while the viewers focus on the main elements of a scene.

Anyway. I say, of the main cast, only Baltar is a reasonable suspect in a dramatic sense. I have my money on the supporting cast or recurring characters

[Seanathin]

An interesting idea though the final cylon is still Gatta.

[justadude]

Cottle might not have had as much screen time as Gaeta, but what makes him singular is the fact that Cottle has taken the stance of an impartial observer following his own moral code without prejudice.

I agree with the op that Cottle will have known he was a cylon from the beginning.

Gaeta on the other hand is way to valuable to be the final cylon. He is the main supporting character who survives the trip. The hard working Junior officer who contributes invaluably in the effort to find earth. You need a regular guy without rank, special abilities or special story, to make it in the end. That guy is Gaeta.

[Seanathin]

Geata being important is why I think he is the final Cylon. But Cottle would make since as the guy who knew everything, and if it comes out that the final skinjob knows then its a good bet it Cottle, but if he is clueless then its defently Geata.

[timbo]

not a rebuttal , i think its possible, the problem is me i tend to draw my conclusions on the show on the way things make me feel and the way cottle said it made me think that. Also the others did refrence quite often so you are quite right.

Yeah, I like that. All my conclusions come from feelings and instinct. The Cottle idea seemed pretty cool to me. But then, nearly every eloquently put theory is convincing to me. In the last elections here, I tried to vote for every one, but they said you cant do that.

[redwards95]

Cottle is even more of a nobody than Torree. He literally only exists because it is necessary to have a doctor type character for the occasional sickbay scenes. We know virtually nothing about him other than he is gruff and smokes. He has no important relationships with any other major characters or with the cylons. Having him be the last cylon would be the same as a Joe Schmoe being the last cylon for me. I grant you he is a candidate we can't definitively exclude, but he's one of the worst candidates in my book. Also I don't take seriously anything RDM has said about the last cylon. He wants to keep it a secret, so he's very likely going to try to misdirect us and make us think it can't be people (such as those in the EW picture) who it actually can be.

[UnRep]

Kat's cute but she didn't appear in Season One and was more of a comic character (aside from her "noble death" episode)

Actually she did appear in season one, in two episodes, she first appeared in Acts of Contrition and then also in Hand of God.

There was some talk of bringing the Kat character back after her death to be some sort of spirit guide for Starbuck in Maelstrom but it didn't happen for some reason or another. It was mentioned in the BSG 3rd series guide. She was going to appear in a shiny new Viper and lead Starbuck off to face her destiny or somesuch. Had that actually been shot and shown in the show it would have opened up a whole new set of specualtion.

*goes back to reading the rest of the thread*

[Dzonatas]

This last episode kinda changes things -- especially how Kara didn't see Earth like she thought she did.

[UnRep]

This last episode kinda changes things -- especially how Kara didn't see Earth like she thought she did.


That's the problem with half of these millions of "My Big Theory!" threads popping up all over the forum. Any one of them can be blow out of the water at any moment and people are really spending way to much time worrying about it. I say sit back and let it wash over you.

[WCityMike]

Twofold response here, because I'm going "huh?" on two points:

(1) What do you mean, she didn't see Earth? What's to say that right now they're not in orbit of Jupiter? Yeah, the comet was a basestar, but that doesn't exclude them from being in the solar system right now.

(2) Even were it not to be Earth, how does that disapprove the Cottle theory?

As for your comment, UnRep -- hey, I'm just spouting off a theory for fun, since some stuff seemed to properly connect in my head and I got a new outlook on the puzzle. Since time immemorial people have felt the urge to posit their own solutions to mysteries being told to them -- else Sherlock Holmes would've never sold papers.

Sorry if it bothered you ...

[5th Cylon]

Third, there was an Entertainment Weekly picture (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/The_Last_Supper) in which the show's head, Ron D. Moore, admitted (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/The_Last_Supper#The_.22Clues.22) that the Final Cylon wasn't any of the people pictured. Pictured were both (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/William_Adama) Adamas (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Lee_Adama), Roslin (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Laura_Roslin), Baltar (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Gaius_Baltar), and Starbuck (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Kara_Thrace), as well as three of the four T (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Saul_Tigh)A (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Samuel_Anders)FT (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Galen_Tyrol) Cylons revealed at the end of last season.

Guess i have to change my opinion on Starbuck as the final cylon(i never thought it was Baltar). I would go with Gaeta. If you noticed when they were on New Caprica, 3 of the 4 new cylons were part of the resistence. Gaeta was the one feeding them info.

[Shane]

Guess i have to change my opinion on Starbuck as the final cylon(i never thought it was Baltar). I would go with Gaeta. If you noticed when they were on New Caprica, 3 of the 4 new cylons were part of the resistence. Gaeta was the one feeding them info.
You mean all four. They all had a role in the resistance.

[timbo]

You mean all four. They all had a role in the resistance.


Yup, and they all had cameras or chips fitted into their eyes. Except Tigh. His went wrong.

[pagad]

I don't buy RDM's assertion that none of the people in that photo is the final Cylon. I think that's simple disinformation to deepen the impact.

I don't think Zarek or Cottle are big enough characters to be revealed as Cylons. Neither gets really significant screentime. Actually, has Cottle even been in S4 so far? Zarek's been in one episode, and that was simply "Lee Adama goes to Colonial One".

For what it's worth, I think it's Lee. RDM's "clues and hints" could well be his acts of disruption and destruction within the Fleet, however noble and misguided.

[UnRep]

As for your comment, UnRep -- hey, I'm just spouting off a theory for fun, since some stuff seemed to properly connect in my head and I got a new outlook on the puzzle. Since time immemorial people have felt the urge to posit their own solutions to mysteries being told to them -- else Sherlock Holmes would've never sold papers.

Sorry if it bothered you ...

Didn't bother me at all. I don't believe I said that it did, I was just pointing out that when you said Kat wasn't in season one you were incorrect, and that she was in two episodes.

And the theories post wasn't directed at you in particular, I just find it amazing how many theories about the Last Cylon or Starbuck or Earth there are around here. I reckon we should open a book, take some bets ;) Sorry if you took offence, none was intended.

[Jason1975]

I don't buy RDM's assertion that none of the people in that photo is the final Cylon. I think that's simple disinformation to deepen the impact.

I don't think Zarek or Cottle are big enough characters to be revealed as Cylons. Neither gets really significant screentime. Actually, has Cottle even been in S4 so far? Zarek's been in one episode, and that was simply "Lee Adama goes to Colonial One".

For what it's worth, I think it's Lee. RDM's "clues and hints" could well be his acts of disruption and destruction within the Fleet, however noble and misguided.

Do you ever think that all this final cylon stuff is just a diversion. That maybe the cylon and human story is just a secondary story. That we do not know the primary story. So maybe he is telling us the truth. That we are dismissing what the developers of the stroy is telling us because we believe that the cylons and humans story is the primary story and a non major character would not do.

[pagad]

Do you ever think that all this final cylon stuff is just a diversion. That maybe the cylon and human story is just a secondary story. That we do not know the primary story. So maybe he is telling us the truth. That we are dismissing what the developers of the stroy is telling us because we believe that the cylons and humans story is the primary story and a non major character would not do.

After four seasons of "secondary story", this "primary story" would have to be damn good :p

[Starstruck]

This is certainly possible, but I think that who the final Cylon is, how/if they make it to Earth, how religion plays into the whole thing, and the human/Cylon alliance/war are all part and parcel of the final plot. I think they must be inter-related.

As I've said before, Doc Cottle is at the top of my list of Cylon possibilities. He's the perfect dark horse. To me, he wouldn't be a let-down, but I think that's partly because I do believe that if he's the final, he knows it and has always known it, and learning that will be shocking. And when he's revealed he just kind of grins Cheshire Cat like.

Of course, I've also imagined the revealing scene in my mind with Gaeta and Dee doing the same thing. It works best with Cottle.

Do you ever think that all this final cylon stuff is just a diversion. That maybe the cylon and human story is just a secondary story. That we do not know the primary story. So maybe he is telling us the truth. That we are dismissing what the developers of the stroy is telling us because we believe that the cylons and humans story is the primary story and a non major character would not do.

[redwards95]

I just can't get into Cottle. If the actor who played Cottle died or otherwise left the show suddenly and they had to come up with a new main doctor character, it wouldn't affect the show at all. He has no relationships with other characters, no backstory, nothing. There's just him, his sickbay, and his cigarettes. That's all we know. If the writers pick such a thinly realized character to be the final cylon they will have done viewers a great disservice.

[ShadowEnigma]

I think Cottle is awesome. I'm actually kind of sad he didn't play more into some episodes, because the character is cool. Though I wouldn't want to see him as the final Cylon. I agree that such a minor character wouldn't do justice to the final Cylon.

[Jason1975]

After four seasons of "secondary story", this "primary story" would have to be damn good :p

I agree that has to be damn good or a lot of people will be disappointed including me. IF the cylons and human are the main story then I would also be disappointed if it is not a main character. Plus, I would be disappointed that they did not show more of the cylons then.

This is certainly possible, but I think that who the final Cylon is, how/if they make it to Earth, how religion plays into the whole thing, and the human/Cylon alliance/war are all part and parcel of the final plot. I think they must be inter-related.

As I've said before, Doc Cottle is at the top of my list of Cylon possibilities. He's the perfect dark horse. To me, he wouldn't be a let-down, but I think that's partly because I do believe that if he's the final, he knows it and has always known it, and learning that will be shocking. And when he's revealed he just kind of grins Cheshire Cat like.

Of course, I've also imagined the revealing scene in my mind with Gaeta and Dee doing the same thing. It works best with Cottle.

I agree that the cylon and human story and everything you mentioned is integral to the primary story. I am just saying that the cylon and human story might just support the primary story.

Doc Cottle would definitely be a dark horse as the final cyclon. If they can figure out a good story of making him the final cylon, I would not bother me at all. The only final cylon theories that I really have a hard time with are the ones that have Galactica or a dead person, especially a dead person that we only saw in flashbacks in one episode or have not see at all, has the final cylon. I think that would be a cop out and very hard to write a story around them.

[hotdog]

It absolutely has to be Cottle, and he definitely knew he was a cylon all along, and he also knew that the attack on Earth was underway, and that Battlestar Galactica would be spared due to the circumstances.

Otherwise, how did he know to pack so many FRAKKING packs of cigarettes? Huh? Seriously, I think he's supplying all of the tobacco to the whole fleet through the black market. As a matter of fact, I think that's his entire angle. In his celestial final cylon journeying, in which he flies through outer space naked with his cylon smokes that burn without oxygen, he heard about the great tobacco growing capabilities of the North American South. He's planning on enslaving both human and cylon alike to harvest tobaccy and smoke endless amounts of it and do surgery on people for fun and download over and over again. THAT'S the cure for cancer! Seriously that's how it's gonna end.

But seriously, the problem with theorizing over the who the final cylon is, is that at this point, WHOEVER it is will be no surprise to anybody, only disappointment for some, and validation for others. That is why it isn't the WHO, but the WHY, and the circumstances surrounding the identity of the cylon that matters. IMO.

It's too bad that, due to the semi-sloppy story telling to this point that it's hard to have faith that there are sufficient clues left throughout the SHOW, to discern the last Cylon's identity, outside of guessing about the writer's intentions.

p.s., when I say sloppy I'm referring to all the loose-ends that seem impossible to tie together. Nevertheless, I still have faith. A little.

[Leroy Morte]

From Hotdog
"But seriously, the problem with theorizing over the final cylon is that at this point, WHOEVER it is will be no surprise, only disappointment for some, and validation for others. That is why it is the the WHO, but the WHY, and the CIRCUMSTANCES surrounding the identity, and the motives of number 12. or whatever model # it turns out to be."

I agree with ya there. Pretty much everybody who could be the last cylon has a thread supporting it, some of them with some very good arguments. At this point, so many of us have so many preconceptions, it's gonna be hard to avoid some disappointment when the "BIG REVEAL" finally happens. At this point I almost wonder if I shoulda just watched the show and not joined in all of the debates and suppositions on this site. But then again I wouldn't have gotten to talk to such nice peeps. Here's to hoping the writers pull of something spectacular, that's just as cooler or even better than all of the crazy frakking things I've read here.:)

[Starstruck]

From Hotdog
"But seriously, the problem with theorizing over the final cylon is that at this point, WHOEVER it is will be no surprise, only disappointment for some, and validation for others. That is why it is the the WHO, but the WHY, and the CIRCUMSTANCES surrounding the identity, and the motives of number 12. or whatever model # it turns out to be."

I agree with ya there. Pretty much everybody who could be the last cylon has a thread supporting it, some of them with some very good arguments. At this point, so many of us have so many preconceptions, it's gonna be hard to avoid some disappointment when the "BIG REVEAL" finally happens. At this point I almost wonder if I shoulda just watched the show and not joined in all of the debates and suppositions on this site. But then again I wouldn't have gotten to talk to such nice peeps. Here's to hoping the writers pull of something spectacular, that's just as cooler or even better than all of the crazy frakking things I've read here.:)

I have thought the same thing a few times. It would be kind of nice to have my own pet theories about who the final is without having to take into account everyone's ideas and evidence. At this point there is a group of about 5 that I see as good possibilities...okay make that 6 or 7, but I could honestly see it being anyone.

[Leroy Morte]

Exactly Starstruck, technically, it's still anyones ballgame. I'm just hoping the final reveal lives up to all of the hype I've built up in my own head, lol. But then again, if it doesn't, it's prolly my fault for not just letting THEM tell me THEIR story;p

[hotdog]

For sure guys, glad you agree. And you're right, I think they will pull it off. Otherwise, why make the show so damn intense this time around? I mean, they're ALREADY going nuts with the plotline, ala, final four, cally's death, baseship, mutiny, bullet-present for gaeta on his non-birthday etc.

They'll do it.

[Chappers]

I just can't get into Cottle. If the actor who played Cottle died or otherwise left the show suddenly and they had to come up with a new main doctor character, it wouldn't affect the show at all. He has no relationships with other characters, no backstory, nothing. There's just him, his sickbay, and his cigarettes. That's all we know. If the writers pick such a thinly realized character to be the final cylon they will have done viewers a great disservice.

I agree I'm pretty sure it will be much more main charactor that will be the final cylon. My own guess is that it will be Roslin but hey I'm quite prepared to admit that it's only a gut feel!

[Xenon242]

The case for Roslin ramped up a little bit with the last episode, insofar as that she seemed to be interested a little bit in what Baltar is now selling, if not buying outright, especially after her time with Emily.

That having been said, it's still going to take a lot more than that to convince me she's the last of the Final Five, let alone Cottle.

[Dzonatas]

After four seasons of "secondary story", this "primary story" would have to be damn good :p

The Caprica series surely will fill in the gaps where S4 leaves open. I say surely in the way to keep the suspense there without having to conclude all ends of it. Following the history in the new series will give away reasons why humans/cylons acted certain ways. yea/nay?

[WCityMike]

This is certainly possible, but I think that who the final Cylon is, how/if they make it to Earth, how religion plays into the whole thing, and the human/Cylon alliance/war are all part and parcel of the final plot. I think they must be inter-related.

As I've said before, Doc Cottle is at the top of my list of Cylon possibilities. He's the perfect dark horse. To me, he wouldn't be a let-down, but I think that's partly because I do believe that if he's the final, he knows it and has always known it, and learning that will be shocking. And when he's revealed he just kind of grins Cheshire Cat like.

Of course, I've also imagined the revealing scene in my mind with Gaeta and Dee doing the same thing. It works best with Cottle.
Yeah, that's exactly the way I pictured it.

[pagad]

The Caprica series surely will fill in the gaps where S4 leaves open. I say surely in the way to keep the suspense there without having to conclude all ends of it. Following the history in the new series will give away reasons why humans/cylons acted certain ways. yea/nay?

Ewww, Caprica. A spin-off BSG really doesn't need.

That's just my opinion, though. I won't be watching it, and I doubt S4 will leave gaps to be filled in by it, tbh. I don't really want to know how the Cylons were created. That would trivialise them too much.

[aylinn]

If Cottle is the last Cylon I bet he'll say "I knew it, I just didn't have time to take care of it by saving your asses 24/7" :D

[pagad]

To be honest, in a weird kind of way, I'm sliding towards the theory that Ellen is the final Cylon, if indeed no-one at the table IS the final cylon. If that's a red herring I'm sticking with Lee.

[Shane]

http://www.battlestarforum.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=11

Only two of us!

[justadude]

http://www.battlestarforum.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=11

Only two of us!

Yeah, but I am the missing three!

When they reveal that Cottle ist the final Cylon, we'll be like all, "We told you so." to the others here. Then they'll be like all, "Dude, shut up, we are not over the fact that it is not Gaeta." To which we will then say, "Dude, Gaeta? We told you it wasn't Gaeta."

Then we will cyber high-five each other and be like all, "We knew it. We're awesome!"

[pagad]

The tattooed pilot is the final Cylon, fo' sure.

[Specialist]

I agree with the Cottle as Cylon thingy. Keep in mind that all the other members are (or were) in key positions around the fleet, how much more key can you get than the surgeon/doctor to the president and the admiral? Also, keep in mind how the prophecy says that a dying leader will take them to Earth, but that the leader themselves will die before reaching Earth. Assuming this is Roslyn (which isn't that big an assumption to make), it'd only make sense that Cottle would be there at her death bed assuming once again that she loses to her cancer.

[Ausir]

I'm voting for the tattooed pilot.

[raginggaijin]

After reading the comments, I really like this theory. If it's not Adaman, I hope it's Cottle.

[barnmaddo]

a dying leader will take them to Earth, but that the leader themselves will die before reaching Earth.

I don't remember the second part about the leader dying.

---
Back on topic. In Epiphanies(S3E13) Cottle is able to find something odd about Hera's blood. Seems to me, if he can detect a half-Cylon then he can detect a full Cylon also, and thus notice if he was Cylon.

-He just thought the blood was odd, so it was nothing specific, and perhaps could not have lead to a Cylon detector.

[ranvir]

I've always thought that Kendra Shaw was the final cylon. She's haunted by her participation in (actually, her initiation of) the killing of the civilians while serving under Admiral Cain, which satisfies the whole "hungering for redemption" requirement. Also, I thought there may be some significance to the first hybrid referring to her as "my child."

It just occurred to me that the hybrid also mentioned that the final cylon will be in shadow and clawing towards the light, which could refer to the whole quest for redemption or the fact that the final cylon is an unknown to be revealed, but it could also be a metaphor for rebirth (i.e., the cylon is born into a new body… dies and comes back to life, and thus moves from shadow to light). Yeah, I know, that last part is a total stretch, haha. Positing a dead person as the final cylon is interesting though. It would mean they can resurrect, obviously, but wouldn’t that have to take place on a resurrection ship? And how could the normal cylons be completely ignorant of who is being resurrected on their own ships?

Needless to say, this is all speculative. I haven't seen the extended version of Razor, so maybe something happened in that which might make the idea of Kendra as the final cylon suspect. And as we know, Moore hadn’t made up his mind about who would be the final cylon until recently, and he obviously wants it to be a puzzle, meaning that there will be multiple characters who satisfy the clues we’ve been given. That said, I think we can narrow it down to a plausible set of people. I actually quite like the idea of Gaeta being the final cylon, I hadn’t considered him before. Cottle though, I think, is not a likely choice, simply because he is such a minor character. A case can be made that Tory was similarly in the periphery, but I think for the final cylon, such a choice would be… retarded.

[ranvir]

Not to mention Cottle is hardly hungering for redemption. Unless he wants to quit smoking or something.

[gworroll]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's Cottle.

-He may well be hungering for redemption, and we don't know it. When Detective Green was written out of Law and Order, there was a reveal of a gambling problem that he was working hard to overcome, and it was tied in credibly with past events of the show. I'm sure RDM could work in a hunger for redemption that would be believable.

-His significance to the story may be greater than realized. This is a bit of a stretch of analogy, but I can't think of a TV example off the top of my head. I went to Central Park a few years ago for a Paul Van Dyk DJ set. Four hours. It was meandering, didn't seem to be much... He was ok, but I didn't see the amazing stuff I expected. But near the end it started to focus, and then snap into perfect clarity in the last tracks he put on. Everything in the set that seemed to not matter, suddenly did and was absolutely essential. RDM could be planning a similar trick with Cottle and his role in the series, and he's had a lot more than 4 hours to lay the groundwork in a subtle manner.

[genji2000]

I went to Central Park a few years ago for a Paul Van Dyk DJ set. Four hours. It was meandering, didn't seem to be much... He was ok, but I didn't see the amazing stuff I expected. But near the end it started to focus, and then snap into perfect clarity in the last tracks he put on. Everything in the set that seemed to not matter, suddenly did and was absolutely essential.

Maybe that's when the E kicked in :lol:

[gworroll]

Maybe that's when the E kicked in :lol:

Actually, and admittedly somewhat atypical for me at the time, I was sober.

[ghostfrog]

Not to mention Cottle is hardly hungering for redemption. Unless he wants to quit smoking or something.

"Hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering."

I imagine there is a lot of suffering in an infirmary.

[Commodore]

In "Faith", when the 8 is dying, she reaches her hand out to Athena. Athena refuses to take her hand, but Anders does. This seems to give the 8 some kind of peace.

In "Sine qua non", when the cylon leader Natalie is dying, she reaches her hand out. Doc Cottle takes her hand.

That parallelism might mean something. Maybe it is a cylon final handshake thing. If so, that could be a hint that Cottle is a cylon.

I was disappointed when Natalie was killed off, especially since the destruction of the Hub made her resurrection impossible. Perhaps it is wishful thinking on my part, but maybe the cylon death grip tranfers her memories on, and we'll see her again in some form in the future.

Plus, I find the chain-smoking Cottle, with his endless supply of cigarettes (as I read elsewhere: from his secret hydroponic tobacco farm), an amusing character.

[genji2000]

In "Faith", when the 8 is dying, she reaches her hand out to Athena. Athena refuses to take her hand, but Anders does. This seems to give the 8 some kind of peace.

In "Sine qua non", when the cylon leader Natalie is dying, she reaches her hand out. Doc Cottle takes her hand.

Well spotted. :lol:

[Ravenstarcruiser]

Well, Cottle might be a choice for a Cylon... if he wasn't the last Cylon to be revealed.

The last someone needs to be someone very integral to the show; Cottle is not. He's just an "anti-McCoy" in every sense of the word.

So, someone with enough punch to knock the wind out of our sails both thematically and dramatically. Out of all those characters that are major to the show (and aren't Cylons): it has to be Roslin, Baltar, Starbuck, either living Adama or even Zarek.

However, EJO has a "no Cylon" clause in his contract. Mary might have the same, though we don't know for certain. Baltar and Starbuck are too much of a red herring, so... an "Apollo". Either old school Apollo (in the form of Zarek) or new school Apollo (Lee).
I am new to these forums. I am old enough (okay, ten days older than water) to remember the old BSG, which, frankly was a poor scifi show, even in those days. I would get great satisfaction if the final Cylon was Tom Zarek. The old series would be pulled together with the new series, and old Apollo has become the mentor of the new Apollo.

The new series is excellent, no matter how the fans critique it. Believe me there is a lot of bad scifi since the introduction of television to the general populace.

The character of Tom Zarek is not known to have any family per se, has a history, for better or worse with all the major characters of the new series, and has gone from a very bad guy (terrorist/murderer/generally evil) to a seemingly good guy (understands and feels protective of Roslin and enemy come mentor of young Adama-Apollo, etc). He has been a leader, for better or worse of the colonists, etc. It would be priceless to make him the last Cylon and connect past to future.

[Osprey]

"In "Sine qua non", when the cylon leader Natalie is dying, she reaches her hand out. Doc Cottle takes her hand."

so frakking what? it simply shows he's taken [the colonial equiv. of] the hippocratic oath and has an ounce of compassion under that tough exterior. It's been amply demonstrated he treats all in need, human or cylon, polytheist or not, from all 12 colonies, etc. etc.

d'anna clearly said "there are 4 in the fleet." cottle was in the fleet at the time, so he's eliminated!

the only real remaining choices are laura, baltar, helo, various & sundry pilots [since they were on the basestar when d'anna made the statement], boomer [gods help us all with that one], or some dead person ...

[Ravenstarcruiser]

"In "Sine qua non", when the cylon leader Natalie is dying, she reaches her hand out. Doc Cottle takes her hand."

so frakking what? it simply shows he's taken [the colonial equiv. of] the hippocratic oath and has an ounce of compassion under that tough exterior. It's been amply demonstrated he treats all in need, human or cylon, polytheist or not, from all 12 colonies, etc. etc.

d'anna clearly said "there are 4 in the fleet." cottle was in the fleet at the time, so he's eliminated!

the only real remaining choices are laura, baltar, helo, various & sundry pilots [since they were on the basestar when d'anna made the statement], boomer [gods help us all with that one], or some dead person ...
Which fleet, the military or the civilian?

One of the sins of Adm. Caine, so it seemed, was that she failed to preserve and protect the civilian fleet. She cannibalized the civilian fleet, and forced the civilians into the military to build up her military fleet of one large battlestar, the Pegasus and however many small ships she had.

Adama, on the other hand, protected and preserved the civilian fleet separate from his military fleet, one battlestar and however many other military vessels.

While the Cylons had their sights trained on the civilian fleet, where was Doc Cottle, since he apparently went from one ship to another, as needed.

Words are slippery, especially in the use of a desperate Cylon like D'Anna.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

Which fleet, the military or the civilian?

The Fleet is the Fleet. Every last ship. :)

One battlestar does not a Fleet make. (Vipers and Raptors don't make a Fleet, either, FYI.)

[Zod]

no chance that Cottle is the final Cylon. he smokes too much

[Chiefchess]

Cottle, Dualla, Gaeta, someone dead, etc. All of them could be the last cylon. So none of the theories posted about the final cylon are wrong (at least not at this point).

I just hope they reveal who the final cylon is within the first three episodes of the season coming in 2009 so we can see that character struggle with that knowledge and react to his or her new identity as a cylon. If (God forbid) they reveal the final cylon in the very last episode, I think I will be very depressed.

We the fans of BSG deserve to know the identity of the final cylon early on in 2009. This will make up for the fact that we have to watch the second half of Season 4 one year after the first half!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

[Zod]

It will be such an anti climax if it is a someone like Cottle, Dualla, Gaeta etc... Give me Adama or Roslin anyday. So seriously you guys...sheeeeesh!!

[genji2000]

Cottle, Dualla, Gaeta, someone dead, etc. All of them could be the last cylon. So none of the theories posted about the final cylon are wrong (at least not at this point).

I just hope they reveal who the final cylon is within the first three episodes of the season coming in 2009 so we can see that character struggle with that knowledge and react to his or her new identity as a cylon. If (God forbid) they reveal the final cylon in the very last episode, I think I will be very depressed.

We the fans of BSG deserve to know the identity of the final cylon early on in 2009. This will make up for the fact that we have to watch the second half of Season 4 one year after the first half!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

It might well be that irritating for you. I think the Fifth will be 'revealed' early in 4.5, but there will be doubt over the veracity of the claim that he/she is the Fifth. Alessandro Juliani made a comment about them starting to film episode eighteen and they still didn't know for sure who the Final Cylon is. This may have been him having a bit of fun with the reporter (like Katee Sackhoff did early in Season Three when she proclaimed that her character dies and is a Cylon), or it may not.

[pagad]

Adama, on the other hand, protected and preserved the civilian fleet separate from his military fleet, one battlestar and however many other military vessels.

Apart from the Pegasus and the rebel basestar (I guess you could argue the Demetrius, as well, since it was commandeered by Adama) there have been no other military vessels in the fleet. Military personnel will sometimes refer to "the Fleet" (the Colonial military fleet, which Galactica is still technically part of) and "the fleet", which is the rag-tag civilian fleet.

[genji2000]

IMO, D'Anna's reference to "the fleet" included the Galactica - she meant all colonial vessels.

Pagad's right in that, in certain contexts (e.g. when discussing the protection of the remaining colonial population), Galactica's crew might use the term to refer only to the civilian vessels, excluding the Galactica.

By the time they reach Earth, "the fleet" also includes the rebel Basestar. I think so, anyway.

Admiral Cain welcomed the Galactica and the civilian vessels "back to the fleet", consisting only of the Pegasus, but I think this was politico-speak to establish that she and the Pegasus were going to be at the top of the food chain.

So, back to Doc Cottle.

I think the holding of the hand at the time of death was symbolic. Anders held the dying Eight's hand in a form of last rites, and Tyrol took Baltar's hand in a form of absolution. I've referred to those two instances in other threads to argue that the Final Five are the five priests of the temple on the algae planet. I've also referred previously to Cottle taking Natalie's hand, but only really as an observation - a parallel with Anders and the Eight. It's pretty flimsy evidence and Osprey probably has it about right. If someone's dying in front of you, you would try to comfort them.

It's a huge reach to suggest that Cottle was off on one of the civilian vessels tending the sick, and that D'Anna somehow knew this and that her reference to "the fleet" only included the Galactica.

[Wouter]

Galactica isn't a fleet by itself. When Cain said "welcome back to the fleet", I think she meant the colonial (war)fleet, of which Pegasus had never stopped being a part. From her POV, Galactica probably "left the fleet" when it fled together with the civilian ships, to find a new home. Cain probably saw it as the duty of the colonial fleet proper, to continue the fight and exact revenge whenever and wherever possible.

About the reveal of the final Cylon, according to Aaron Douglas the reveal was filmed as the last thing before the writers' strike - so, normally that would be in the very next episode (could make sense, it's also likely to be the last episode where Lucy Lawless is contracted). Mark Verheiden also recently promised that some major reveals would come "sooner than you think".

OTOH, we have remarks like those of Juliani, who still didn't know who it was quite late in filming of S4.5. It's possible that only some select actors (those involved in the reveal, I suppose) would know earlier, and their in-show characters keep it quiet for some reason (so the other actors don't have to know, either).

That he accepted Natalie's hand to give comfort merely shows that he is compassionate, I think. And also that a human can have compassion with a Cylon, in spite of everything. This and what Anders did is also a contrast to Athena refusing the same thing. Forgiveness seems to a major issue throughout S4, and there's likely more to come yet.

Not that Cottle would be a bad final Cylon, but D'Anna's comment is hard to get around.

[TAZ-99]

Everyone assumes that Deanna's statement about only 4 of the 5 being in the fleet means the last was already on the Basestar or dead.

I say she lied. She stated she had been in contact...if the last were still asleep or better - knew what they were and told her to shut the frak up...she would have to cover for the last.

Additionally - I agree that Cottle is an excellent choice. Additionally - Racetrack may not have all that many lines - but you people of Wiki should be more than aware of her involvement in nearly every key plot point to date.

Including finding New Caprica - and lets not forget the cause and effect nature of this show - had she not found New Caprica then the fleet would never have settled there - the fleet would have pushed on - found the Algae planet a full year too early to witness the Nova that marked their way toward Earth.

Some doors are not quite as closed as many assumptions would make them...

Also - Racetrack survived one hell of a Raptor crash just recently. I want to believe their ships are that well reinforced...but still...

On another hand - the pattern of 2 males to every 1 female skin job would follow that that final be male.

Cavil, Leo, Deanna,
Simon, Doral, Caprica
Sharon, Anders, male,
Tory, Tyrol, Saul

[Wouter]

Everyone assumes that Deanna's statement about only 4 of the 5 being in the fleet means the last was already on the Basestar or dead.
Or on the hub. Or left behind somewhere.


I say she lied. She stated she had been in contact...if the last were still asleep or better - knew what they were and told her to shut the frak up...she would have to cover for the last.

D'Anna does lie sometimes, and when she stated she had been in contact, this was misleading, at best. She had just made eye contact with Tigh and Tory, that's what the "contact" amounted to. She didn't get detailed instructions on what to do from Tigh or so (in fact, she shoots a triumphant stare to Tigh when she gets Tory to follow her, over Tigh's objections). And if the 5th was still "asleep", wouldn't she still prefer to lay her hands on him or her if she could? How would she know anyway, for all we know she just assumed all 5 would have known who they were all the time? She certainly showed a great desire to make the 4 join the other Cylons, even reverting to basically blackmailing Tigh, Tyrol and Anders to do so.


Also - Racetrack survived one hell of a Raptor crash just recently. I want to believe their ships are that well reinforced...but still...

While you make some good points on Racetrack being around for a lot of important events, I think that she would probably fall under the category of "some day player from season 1". Moreover, the Raptor crash has been chalked up by RDM to the effects department being a bit too overenthusiast. The crash was not meant to have looked that deadly, by the script. Even if Racetrack was a Cylon, she could not just walkaway from such a crash either; she would need resurection (and there is very probably no goo bath in the back of the Raptor :D ). Wouldn't Tyrol and co also not have been very puzzled at her (and her copilot) walking away from a crash that looked totally deadly?

[Osprey]

sudden thought -- the "4 are in the fleet" comment is made MOOT during the events of revelations -- d'anna UNCONDITIONALLY RELEASES everyone from the basestar -- INCLUDING gaius, laura, racetrack, hot dog, and every frakking other even remotely potential f5!

oh my gods -- there really is no one left to be the final cylon EXCEPT boomer!!!!!!
:-(

[genji2000]

On another hand - the pattern of 2 males to every 1 female skin job would follow that that final be male.

Cavil, Leo, Deanna,
Simon, Doral, Caprica
Sharon, Anders, male,
Tory, Tyrol, Saul

Until the Fifth is revealed there is no pattern - in fact, there is unlikely to be any pattern that dictates who Fifth is anyway. If the Fifth is a female then the male-to-female split would be seven-to-five, which mirrors the Significant Seven and the Final Five split. I doubt that we can guess the identity of the Fifth based on gender though.

I guess you're using the 2-of-3 clues to deduce that the Fifth is male. That may be a valid exercise or it may just be Last Supper hogwash.

sudden thought -- the "4 are in the fleet" comment is made MOOT during the events of revelations -- d'anna UNCONDITIONALLY RELEASES everyone from the basestar -- INCLUDING gaius, laura, racetrack, hot dog, and every frakking other even remotely potential f5!

Not really, if the "four are in the fleet" statement only applies before the new alliance is formed, or perhaps only before she travels to the Galactica with Adama (if the old man turns out to be the Fifth). If it were Baltar, Helo or Roslin then all five are back in the fleet from the scene where the Eight is examining the Viper's Earth signal.

oh my gods -- there really is no one left to be the final cylon EXCEPT boomer!!!!!!
:-(

Rejoice, therefore. Why so glum? :)

[Osprey]

because i didn't WANT her to be it!

[genji2000]

because i didn't WANT her to be it!

:lol:

Well we don't know that she is but as you just illustrated, she just seems to be the logical choice.

When it comes to the revelation I don't think the identity of the Fifth is all that important - it's the manner of the revelation, the purpose of the Final Five, and the way they fit into the story that matter, and whether it's Boomer or the tattooed pilot I'm sure they'll work it so that it's plausible and meaningful.

So don't worry.

[Osprey]

yeah, yer prolly right ...

there's enough lying around for 4.5 that the 5th, for me, keeps slipping down and down the list ...

[Basestar Blaster]

I'm still leaning towards Cottle...but I also know that no matter how things look now...everything could do a 180 within the next two episodes..so until it's revealed...just about anyone is fair game!!:)

[Kissingher]

sudden thought -- the "4 are in the fleet" comment is made MOOT during the events of revelations -- d'anna UNCONDITIONALLY RELEASES everyone from the basestar -- INCLUDING gaius, laura, racetrack, hot dog, and every frakking other even remotely potential f5!

oh my gods -- there really is no one left to be the final cylon EXCEPT boomer!!!!!!
:-(

Except it can't be Boomer either. "There are five other Cylons." Boomer is well established as an Eight.

And it also leaves dead characters. There are lots to choose from. One of them, Ellen Tigh, meets all the criteria.

[Commodore]

Something else to ponder:

Among the main cylon goals so far have been wiping out humanity, and nannying humanity on New Caprica. The final 5 (or the 4 we know) have actively opposed these goals. So what is the purpose of the final 5?

Another cylon goal has been reproduction. Perhaps the final 5 are part of that plan. If so, they have had a good success rate: Tyrol has a son; Tigh has a bun-in-the-toaster-oven with CapricaSix.

If Cottle is the final cylon, and if the goal of the final 5 is reproduction, he is in an excellent position to monitor the progress. Cottle is one of the very few who has had access to CapricaSix. He also treated Cally regularly. And he was there all along with Athena and her pregnancy, and was one of the very few who knew Hera lived.

Not earth-shattering, I know. But interesting to consider.

[timbo]

Tigh has a bun-in-the-toaster-oven with CapricaSix.


Brilliant

[boomer416]

maybe its nothing, but i thought it was intresting in "The Ties that Bind" that Cottle specifically asked Cally to send Tyrol down to the med-wing for an exam by him once he and Cally started talking about the Chiefs strange behaivor and the nebula. Maybe he was just being a concerned doctor , but Cottle always seems so disgruntled most of the time. I've suspected Cottle as the fifth since 2.5 but i try to keep an open mind about other candidates :)

[Osprey]

"Maybe he was just being a concerned doctor"

um, yeah, that's what i'm going with there ...

[boomer416]

"Maybe he was just being a concerned doctor"

um, yeah, that's what i'm going with there ...


be that as it may, i'd still rank him up there with a couple others as a likely candidate for the fifth. :)

[Osprey]

Be sure to vote for him in our multiple polls on this beaten beyond death subject then ...
:-)

[genji2000]

Be sure to vote for him in our multiple polls on this beaten beyond death subject then ...
:-)

Those polls are all closed aren't they? Maybe you should start a new one. :lol:

[boomer416]

Those polls are all closed aren't they? Maybe you should start a new one. :lol:


lol if they do make another one i'm not voting, i agree on one thing i'm tired of guessing who the fifth is! :)

[Osprey]

Maybe you should start a new one. :lol:

Not.Gonna.Happen.

[G1692]

I don't think that the final Cylon would be Dr Cottle
My reasoning for this is that Number 3 said four of the final five are in the fleet.
She also only asked for four to come forward when she was holding Roslin captive
Dr Cottle is also an obvious choice
Therefore I believe that the final Cylon is already with the cylons (unlikely), dead (likely) or is already a cylon model such as Boomer who chose to go against the other 8s in the vote.

[genji2000]

I believe that the final Cylon is already with the cylons (unlikely), dead (likely) or is already a cylon model such as Boomer who chose to go against the other 8s in the vote.

I like the cut of your gibbet. A sensible opinion to hold, except she's not "already a Cylon model", which implies a model we know about.

Anyway... welcome to this, the forum. Go to this place (http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=1577) and describe to us your innermost desires, fears and irritations.

If you want.

[Lt.Heracles]

Let me get this straight If Doc Cottle would be a Cylon then why am I speaking with him right now about Medication? (^^')

[genji2000]

You're not - it's the medication talking.