The Road Less Traveled - 5/2/08

[Shane]

http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/thumb/1/1f/4x05_-_The_Road_Less_Travelled_-_Promo_1.jpg/640px-4x05_-_The_Road_Less_Travelled_-_Promo_1.jpg


Preview today @ Noon on SciFi.com
Full Episode Airs at: 10pm EST on the SciFi Channel

[ThPrime]

Three cheers for Gaeta! He had his first NON-WHINING line of dialog this season :lol:

Besides the ten minute Sci Fi preview, there is another two minute sneak peek at Hulu: Episode 7: The Road Less Traveled (http://www.hulu.com/watch/18568/battlestar-galactica-episode-7-the-road-less-traveled) Looks like the Hulu clip begins shortly after Sci Fi's ends. It's a sneak preview conspiracy.

Episode looks good, from twelve minutes of it anyway. :thumbsup:

[james968]

I'm in Europe, this means it will air sometime at around 3am. I then need to find someplace that has it on the net and download it. Hopefully tomorrow morning by 10 or 11 am, I'll have my fix. Then I will go through withdrawal until next Saturday. (It used to be so much easier when it was on iTunes).

/Curse you NBC executives/

[matronik]

I'd love to know on how Athena will deal with Leoben on the same ship as her

[redwards95]

I'm more interested in how Sam will deal with Leoben.

[Dwyn2435]

I'm watching it now.

[EverlastingGaze]

This episode was awesome...it seemed to be over in about 5 minutes I want more...

[Hermes]

I have mixed feelings about this one. In some ways it was a little dragging. Baltar seemed rather slimey. And I really don't like the Cylone Conoy. I want to punch his face as I watch him. But this did convince me that Kara is the 5th. It was an ok episode but not my favorite.

[TPL2008]

Although i liked this episode i found it, and last weeks too, a bit too unfocused for my taste until the last five minutes or so.

If this wasn't the last season i wouldn't be too concerned, but as we only have 15 episodes left after this one i hope the story starts to gain some traction. Don't get the wrong impression i want to see the characters explored but i'd like to see it while the story itself progressed. The preview of next weeks episodes gives me the impression that this exploration of Kara and her search for Earth should pay off at least, i'm sure for the other characters it will also in due time.

On the actual episode itself, is it me or did Conoy hint at Anders being a cylon. A bit like Six did with Tigh last week. Perhaps the significent seven know subconciously when they're in the presence of the final five.

[Mishakal]

The episode was sooo good! I can't wait to see how the mutiny unfolds on the Demetrius.

Any episode with Number 2 in it is going to be a wild ride no matter what happens and it didn't dissapoint in that regard. I just love how he can get into your head and control people with such ease.

Also the whole Baltar/Tyrol dynamic was good... Whats the money on the Chief becomming Baltar's latest convert?

[EverlastingGaze]

I got that impression as well...maybe they can sense it or something.
I'd be dissapointed if Kara is the final cylon but it was just something she said near the begining about getting that sound back or something like that...made me think about the music...I really liked this episode. First time in forever that Helo hasn't bored me to tears.

[alpha5099]

Oh man, an awesome episode. Michael Rymer generally directs really great episodes, I'm glad to see he didn't stumble again like back with Hero.

I'd have to agree that there is a bit of a sense of lack of focus that I'm feeling in the episodes. But to me, it just seems like there are just too many balls in the air right now. Too many plot threads, most of them don't get enough screen time. I like all the plot threads, it just gets annoying having only a couple minutes dedicated to any of them.

And the time goes by so quickly. I had no idea the episode was ending. But what a great cliffhanger.

I wonder how many Leobens, Sixes, and Eights are still around. Presumably Natalie's Basestar was the one that made it. Boomer's probably still with Cavel, although I suspect she's not too happy. Seeds for further discord? Sowed.

Also, there just cannot be any way Kara is the 5th. Same reason for Baltar last season: it's not going to be the character that everyone suspects. Gotta have some shock value. It doesn't work if the show is like, "Hey, you know that character we've been saying is probably a Cylon for a while now? They totally are one. Surprise!"

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but there wasn't any Adamas or Roslin in this episode, was there? Isn't this the first time Bill or Laura haven't shown up in a episode? No one has a perfect attendance record anymore.

And they need to give up the pretense of the teaser. They've gotten crazily long this season. Really just the first act lately.

[alpha5099]

One last thing: It looks like a cinch now that Tyrol's going to fall under Jesus Baltar's thrall. What I'm curious is what that means for the Fantastic Four. We've probably got two becoming apostles. Will Tigh and Anders get won over too, or will Baltar become a wedge being the Four?

[afleaah]

every time before i watch an eps of bgs
my expectations are through the roof...
adrenaline pumps through my veins durin the teaser...
and somewhere in the middle
my excitment goes away and im left wondering where is all the excitment i had hoped for...
then in the last 5 mins
things explode and my nerves go haywire...
and then the eps is done and i want more...

is it just me...?

i liked this eps because there was enough of starbuck for the season so far...
but where are the rest of ppl?
is nothing important go on in the fleet to warrant a scene with adama and roslin
or even the now very annoyin to watch lee?
or do only the 4 other cylons do stuff?
i like leoben...im glad he was there...he's one of my fave clyons...

and once again...i cant wait for the next eps...

[alpha5099]

Does anyone else find it ridiculous just how many fairly important characters are on the Demetrius? Aside from five of the seven main characters in the credits, and three of the final four, who is left in the fleet? Racetrack, Shark, Figurski's all I can think up. I guess Dee's hiding somewhere.

[1Nivek1]

If this wasn't the last season i wouldn't be too concerned, but as we only have 15 episodes left after this one i hope the story starts to gain some traction. Don't get the wrong impression i want to see the characters explored but i'd like to see it while the story itself progressed.

Exactly. I'm going to go ahead and go against the grain and say the epidsode was poor. It was just pure setup for next week. Nothing happened except Kara hiding in her bedroom and acting like a general lunatic (painting lessons!?). The only thing credible that happened is Leoben referring to her as the "angel" from the hybridspeak....but I think everyone knew that one anyway.


Also, there just cannot be any way Kara is the 5th. Same reason for Baltar last season: it's not going to be the character that everyone suspects. Gotta have some shock value.

Yeah, they're just scanning the environment right now with the obvious choices. Baltar begging for "redemption" & Kara "what happened to me during those 2 months".

With 15 epi's left, one would think they could avoid the over-drama/non-advancing stories in the middle of the season, but apparently not. I was just waiting for Leoben to say to Kara: "...now twist my nipples.....oooohh...."

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

To those of you who view these last five episodes as "non-advancing", you're obviously ignoring the fact that these episodes are laying the groundwork for the other 15.

To be honest, I've enjoyed the episodes, because it develops the characters and it is laying the groundwork. These episodes are definitely not episodic like last season and we're seeing the foundation laid.

Feel free to disagree, though. :)

[afleaah]

how come athena seems so mistrusting of leoben...?
she doesnt even hear him out...
well why doesnt she want starbuck to trust him...?
in eye of jupiter she trusted caprica no questions asked...

and she knows about starbuck's destiny
in the farm she said :
They know who you are, Kara. You're special. Leoben told you that. You have a destiny.
so wats the deal with her now
doesnt she believe that kara has a destiny??

[ThPrime]

I have to agree about too many balls in the air. The struggling is showing in the juggling.

Continuing best of series performances. Aaron commands a screen presence in a way he never has before. Katee's eyes burn from her skull. Only James Callis could keep Baltar fresh, continuing to find new facets in the character after five years. Best nuanced villain on television. They've all matured greatly as actors.

But YEAH! Athena and Gaeta are unrecognizeable as characters. Are they given throwaway lines that any character could say? Is their peevish obstinate behavior supposed to be perceived as suspicious, as a plot point? Seelix gets her wings only to lose her voice. Had she said anything of importance while on the Demetrius?

I will not, cannot bash the fact they dared to have an episode without any Adama and Roslin at all. The network had to have lost sleep over that. That took brass balls. :)

Intriguing setups on the two storylines tonight. But I hope the payoff comes at a reasonable pace in the next four episodes and not all crammed into the cliffhanger.

[Proxenus]

This one was better than the previous episode, but I'm still trying to figure out the what the hell the writers are thinking.

For example, Leoben tells Anders that he (Leoben) is trying to help Kara find her destiny. Okay, why doesn't Anders ask Leoben what Kara's destiny is? And if Leoben says he doesn't know, then Anders then ask how does Leoben know that he (Leoben) can help Kara find her destiny?

I'm still looking for a reasonable explanation as to the source of Baltar's popularity. He speaks pablums and gathers crowds.

However, if we are to assume that he's gaining popularity, his message is very dangerous. If you all notice, his message is very willful. Everything is good and everyone can be free of guilt. Social norms can be broken down and leave the society in shambles.

[managizzle]

To those of you who view these last five episodes as "non-advancing", you're obviously ignoring the fact that these episodes are laying the groundwork for the other 15.

To be honest, I've enjoyed the episodes, because it develops the characters and it is laying the groundwork. These episodes are definitely not episodic like last season and we're seeing the foundation laid.

Feel free to disagree, though. :)

I, for one, agree. I have found this season to be fascinating. Virtually every character is changing and think that is jarring for some but I enjoy watching the characters evolve.

The exploration of religious themes is pretty provocative as well. I've seen people on other boards and communities up in arms because RDM is somehow perpetuating this great blasphemy on Christianity. Interesting how it's ok to make us question the morality or immorality of suicide bombings, but gods forbid you make me think about my faith.

As far as Gaius is concerned, given that head six is almost completely different than the other sixes, I wonder who really is pulling his strings, esp. since he has been instrumental in guiding both Tory and now Chief in accepting their true nature.

[Dzonatas]

Ah frak it... this is a thread about this episode... not about previews.

I give up. I don't want to read spoilers. I love to talk BSG, talk about the tech, and the science, and fiction, and theorize, but too many people say stuff about previews and spoilers.

=/

enjoy

[1Nivek1]

To those of you who view these last five episodes as "non-advancing", you're obviously ignoring the fact that these episodes are laying the groundwork for the other 15.

Feel free to disagree, though. :)

Well, I must say that I do. I think last week was enough character development, at least with Gaius and Starbuck(2 weeks prior). I was not displeased by last week. I was hoping they could keep the "tension" going a bit stronger, but I understand the realities of writing TV drama. However, this episode carried a lot of unnecessary repetition I thought -- Gaius' speeches, Starbuck acting like a kook and painting on her walls in her bedroom....

One would think there's enough "meat" around to keep everyone fed. They had Tyrol question the circumstances surrounding Cally's death for instance. They could've had him troll around/asking questions/etc....Instead they had shots of him standing stoicly w/ new hair cut listening to Baltar say the same things and locked him in his room waiting for Gaius to come around and ask for redemption. Gaius' plotline was the exact same minus getting kicked in the teeth. Kara's actions (minus Leoben), were the exact same...generally being a poor leader/acting crazy.

I think the episode would've been much better if they condensed Baltar, let Chief sniff around, and let the mutiny play out a bit more, and left the "hanger" a little further into the mutiny. A very small tweak that would "have made all the difference".

I also think this staleness (and also in prior seasons) leads to temporary character derangement like:


But YEAH! Athena and Gaeta are unrecognizeable as characters. Are they given throwaway lines that any character could say?
+

Okay, why doesn't Anders ask Leoben what Kara's destiny is? And if Leoben says he doesn't know, then Anders then ask how does Leoben know that he (Leoben) can help Kara find her destiny?

I'm still looking for a reasonable explanation as to the source of Baltar's popularity. He speaks pablums and gathers crowds.

+

...and Athena knows about starbuck's destiny? In the farm she said :
They know who you are, Kara. You're special. Leoben told you that. You have a destiny.
so what's the deal with her now?

Just think the pacing is off here. Considering it's final season, they shouldn't have to sacrifice good action/advancement for too much character developments, especially repitive ones.


I have to agree about too many balls in the air. The struggling is showing in the juggling.

But I hope the payoff comes at a reasonable pace in the next four episodes and not all crammed into the cliffhanger.

[james968]

I'm more interested in how Sam will deal with Leoben.

He'll beat the crap out of him, no handcuffs needed.

[james968]

The last 10 minutes it got interesting. (Waiting for the podcast now, then waiting for next week).

I was kinda wondering if we would see any of the Raptor Pilots suddenly flying a viper. Interesting that Ander's has pretty crappy landings. (There doesn't appear to be a Raptor, so I'm wondering why is Athena there)

The whole thing about putting Thrace in command has always bothered me. I would have though Adama would have made her the navagator and put Helo in command OR giving Helo a deadman's switch/authorization. (I.e "She starts toatstering, open this envelope"). The Marine's (probably) provide all of the Space Borne Security/police'ing. I expected that Mathias (sp?) death (As CO of the detachment) would play some role in the conflict/mutiny, but it was to short an episode.

The Chief/Baltar Solo Meeting Scene, I was expecting (any and all of the following):
1. Baltar comes clean how he didn't stop boomer, when she was was freaking out about being a cylong and about to try and shoot herself WOW, the parallel JUST struck me
2. Chief comes clean he's a cylon
3. Chief pulls out his gun and makes Baltar a Martyr to his Flock (RDM is saying lots of people are gonna die....... )
(Again ANY or ALL)

The similarities in number 1 (above), just struck me. I wonder if Baltar will ever relate this to someone who knows the Chief is a cylon and they will see it. (Though I don't think the Colonials could solve a jigsaw puzzle, so I doubt it)

Leoben has apparently answered the question about Natilie and the others surviving.

I'm glad that Chief has a potential solution for his pain.

I'm still looking for a reasonable explanation as to the source of Baltar's popularity. He speaks pablums and gathers crowds. I'm still looking for a reasonable explanation as to the source of Baltar's popularity. He speaks pablums and gathers crowds.


They have never tasted (what you call) "pablum" before. It could be that some of these concepts are new to them. Also remember these are a people who have seen 'the end of days' and need something else.

My prediction is they will do just like Helo said, jump back to the fleet. Then find this damaged base star, (or have Galactica with guns ready, go find the Basestar).

[Asiriya]

It was a boring episode, and I agree with others, the same thing happened again that's been going on all season, with very little movement. I agree it is they are trying to do too much with the story at once, meaning that none of it can be specifically focussed on without damaging the continuation of the rest, it jsut seems a shame that we have to put up strongs of dull episodes before things can actually get rolling. If they could just drop one OMG moment in every now and agian, just to spice things up, break the norm. *Sighs* At least I have LOST giving me answers...

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

But YEAH! Athena and Gaeta are unrecognizeable as characters. Are they given throwaway lines that any character could say? Is their peevish obstinate behavior supposed to be perceived as suspicious, as a plot point? Seelix gets her wings only to lose her voice. Had she said anything of importance while on the Demetrius?

That's a good point. But then again, look at Athena: She has an inherent mistrust of the Cylons, and was willing to see them all extict in "A Measure of Salvation". She's pledged her loyalty to the humans, plus she's admitted that every day she struggles for acceptance, and so her distrust of Leoben logically follows.

Secondly, when you're talking about Gaeta, this is the guy who thrust a pen in Baltar's neck and perjured himself in the Trial of the Century believing that he would be instrumental in getting a guilty plea for Baltar. Unfortunately, that's not the case, and now he has this rage bottled within him, and he feels that he can't trust anyone again since the New Caprica experience... hence his apprehension to trusting Thrace.

As for Seelix, "Gonzo" the porn pilot seems to have her lines... So I can't argue with you there.

[Proxenus]

They have never tasted (what you call) "pablum" before. It could be that some of these concepts are new to them. Also remember these are a people who have seen 'the end of days' and need something else.

In some ways, they have gotten the similar pablum from Baltar before and it lead them down the primrose path to New Caprica.

As I stated before, there will always be some crazies who will follow the psychos (there are people who write to Charles Manson), but I cannot believe that a sizable chunk of the population are believing this guy.

I mean, seriously, someone has to say "hey, the last time we followed this guy, we ended up on New Caprica." Even if the Cylons didn't come, Baltar was a complete failure on New Caprica.

Yet, we're to believe that this is all forgotten and he's popular again?

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

In some ways, they have gotten the similar pablum from Baltar before and it lead them down the primrose path to New Caprica.

As I stated before, there will always be some crazies who will follow the psychos (there are people who write to Charles Manson), but I cannot believe that a sizable chunk of the population are believing this guy.

I mean, seriously, someone has to say "hey, the last time we followed this guy, we ended up on New Caprica." Even if the Cylons didn't come, Baltar was a complete failure on New Caprica.

Yet, we're to believe that this is all forgotten and he's popular again?

Why? There are many people in our world who believe the Holocaust never happened, or deny that they are racists when they are... It's not that hard to believe.

People are stupid. Never underestimate the human animal's willingness to engage in self-denial and self-deception, or to turn people into angels when they really weren't. *cough*Cally*cough*

Further, Roslin has been acting like the shrill banshee in "Escape Velocity" when debating with the Quorum, brining up what happened the last time Baltar obtained political power. Of course, she was viewed through Lee's bloodshot eyes as seeking vengeance against Baltar... which isn't necessarily wrong, but not the whole picture.

So far, out of what we've seen, Baltar only has around 50-75 (or so) followers... Not really a sizable amount of the surviving population, as you've claimed. That's only around %0.1 of the human population.

[pagad]

The last 10 minutes it got interesting. (Waiting for the podcast now, then waiting for next week).

I was kinda wondering if we would see any of the Raptor Pilots suddenly flying a viper. Interesting that Ander's has pretty crappy landings. (There doesn't appear to be a Raptor, so I'm wondering why is Athena there)


There is a Raptor secured to the underbelly of the Demetrius.

Who else loves the creaking noises of the ship and the roughness of the interior, compared to Galactica's shiny surfaces? It's a U-boat in spaaaaace

[ShadowEnigma]

I personally really enjoyed the episode. Yes there isn't as much action and such as in other episodes, but I feel that they are going back to their old ways of taking the story line and spreading it out between multiple episodes. Yes, maybe it's dragging their feet a little, but it gives them the chance to really explore everything they are doing.

Ah frak it... this is a thread about this episode... not about previews.

I give up. I don't want to read spoilers. I love to talk BSG, talk about the tech, and the science, and fiction, and theorize, but too many people say stuff about previews and spoilers.

=/

enjoy

Yeah, every Friday the episode thread people will start discussing it. It's the only place will openly talk about it until about the end of the weekend (I believe, I don't remember the cut off). Sorry if you didn't realize this.

For example, Leoben tells Anders that he (Leoben) is trying to help Kara find her destiny. Okay, why doesn't Anders ask Leoben what Kara's destiny is? And if Leoben says he doesn't know, then Anders then ask how does Leoben know that he (Leoben) can help Kara find her destiny?

Nobody trusts this model. He is full of half truths and lies. People remember this, and I doubt anyone really wants to strike up a conversation with him because of it.

I'm still looking for a reasonable explanation as to the source of Baltar's popularity. He speaks pablums and gathers crowds.

However, if we are to assume that he's gaining popularity, his message is very dangerous. If you all notice, his message is very willful. Everything is good and everyone can be free of guilt. Social norms can be broken down and leave the society in shambles.

Society has seen a lot of people like this come to power of one sort or another. Charisma can take a person a long way.

[stavrosg]

Just rewatched it. Good stuff, although a little slow at times.

One last thing: It looks like a cinch now that Tyrol's going to fall under Jesus Baltar's thrall. What I'm curious is what that means for the Fantastic Four. We've probably got two becoming apostles. Will Tigh and Anders get won over too, or will Baltar become a wedge being the Four?

I didn't see this as Tyrol accepting Baltar's ramblings, but Tyrol coming to terms with himself. We'll see about that in a week anyway.

That's a good point. But then again, look at Athena: She has an inherent mistrust of the Cylons, and was willing to see them all extict in "A Measure of Salvation". She's pledged her loyalty to the humans, plus she's admitted that every day she struggles for acceptance, and so her distrust of Leoben logically follows.
Indeed, Athena is in a really awkward position now: An outcast of her own society, and in constant danger of being in the wrong side of the door when the airlock opens. And probably ready to be boxed as soon as she shows up in a resurrection pool.

And a question: Right before the mutiny, she asks Helo "Are you sure about that?" by that, does she mean jumping to the basestar coordinates, or the mutiny ?

[OTW]

This is a fairly negative post, so I should clarify first I quite liked the episode. Callis always blows me away and it's great to see Douglas' moving Tyrol into new territory

The main thing that disappointed me was that the climax of the episode (mutiny on the Demetrius) was given away *in the trailer*! Kinda took the edge off that one.

No Edward James Olmos! In fact, Adama's character is a bit lost at the moment, his only real role is to read to Roslin. I'm sure he'll have more to do soon.

I think the writers really haven't been able to use Athena effectively for about a season. I guess characters come and go, but I really engaged with her and its a bit sad to just see her relegated to a supporting role.

Ah well, I guess my main complaint is that we only get 1hr of Battlestar a week.

[Nickleto]

With regard to Baltar's cult , I can just about believe that he has a following. But pretty much every other aspect of it is unbelievable.
First, his change from being a selfish sceptic to his new role as earnest and selfless messiah is hard to swallow. It seems too sudden and dramatic. Likely the writers felt they had to do something new with the character to keep him interesting. On this level at least, it works. And James Callis pulls it off as best he can which is pretty good.
As has been mentioned, his message is pretty insipid. As far as I can make out it consists of 4 precepts - the old gods do not exist, there is only one god, past wrongs can be forgiven and everyone is perfect. A few sympathetic looks are thrown in the mix for good measure. I don't see why this message is particularly relevant to anyone in the fleet. Surely the issue of the sins on New Caprica was pretty firmly put to bed last season. I'd much more readily accept the importance of his message of social equality - which seems to have been dropped.
I can obviously see the relevance of the message to Baltar's situation but I don't see where he got these ideas. Or why he believes them himself.
Most of all though, I'm confused about what the audience are meant to make of this. At the moment it's been left up to us to decide whether Baltar's cult has merit or not - his message hasn't shown itself to be a force for good or bad in the fleet. Neither has his monotheism shown itself to be true or false. I for one hope we're never given an answer as to the existence of the gods but they're going to have to decide whether Baltar's cult is good or bad. Or more accurately whether the audience should sympathise with Baltar's followers or not. If they don't have us get down off the fence it's just poor storytelling.
Not engaging our sympathies isn't the same as the situation with the Cylons. We condemn their acts of genocide but acknowledge their own struggles and humanity. In this situation we're fiercely ambivalent towards the Cylons. In the case of Baltar's cult, I don't feel that my emotions have been engaged one way or the other.
There's another problem. If down the line Baltar's followers or message turn out to be of value to the fleet, then the writers will be saying they want us to see the cult as the good guys. Personally and I don't think I'm alone here, I would have trouble being on the side of the Baltarists when I think their message is so insipid. Yet, how are they going to cast a bunch of naive and anguished refugees as the bad guys?
Overall I just feel a little confused.

[james968]

Tory's comment that they need to recruit a major player to get the cult membership jumping seemed a bit of forshadowing. If Tyrol can be recruited, he is the 'leader' of the union (a.k.a the workers of the fleet). Once/if they get Tyrol I think she will aim for Tigh. (His new girlfriend already is an honorary member).

[Nickleto]

That was a pretty negative post. I should say that I really liked the episode and love the show. I wouldn't be posting here if I didn't.

[Joe Beaudoin Jr.]

No worries, there were some problems with the episode. But they are minor, I think.

[Shane]

Does anyone else find it ridiculous just how many fairly important characters are on the Demetrius? Aside from five of the seven main characters in the credits, and three of the final four, who is left in the fleet? Racetrack, Shark, Figurski's all I can think up. I guess Dee's hiding somewhere.

Racetrack, Seelix, Athena, all the same for me. :D

He'll beat the crap out of him, no handcuffs needed.

Flashlight not included. :p

This is a fairly negative post, so I should clarify first I quite liked the episode. Callis always blows me away and it's great to see Douglas' moving Tyrol into new territory

The main thing that disappointed me was that the climax of the episode (mutiny on the Demetrius) was given away *in the trailer*! Kinda took the edge off that one.


Seeing Tyrol being sucked in is going to be great. I wonder if he going to use his Knife to shave off Tigh's hair :lol: Very true about the trailers . They gotta pay attention to this more. However, I refuse to watch the trailers for this season and it's paid off so far with lots of enjoyment. :D

[1Nivek1]

With regard to Baltar's cult , I can just about believe that he has a following. But pretty much every other aspect of it is unbelievable.

Yeah, fiction just has to be slightly plausible....no point in dwelling on the logistics....


First, his change from being a selfish sceptic to his new role as earnest and selfless messiah is hard to swallow. It seems too sudden and dramatic. Likely the writers felt they had to do something new with the character to keep him interesting. On this level at least, it works. And James Callis pulls it off as best he can which is pretty good.

I agree, Callis has been put to work. A also agree it seems a bit "sudden", but if they took too much transition/revelation time, Baltar would end up stale.

I can obviously see the relevance of the message to Baltar's situation but I don't see where he got these ideas. Or why he believes them himself.
Most of all though, I'm confused about what the audience are meant to make of this. At the moment it's been left up to us to decide whether Baltar's cult has merit or not

Well, I think he's finally given into "fate" and the "sermons" of head-six. She's been spewing the same kind of stuff since S1.

We condemn their acts of genocide but acknowledge their own struggles and humanity. In this situation we're fiercely ambivalent towards the Cylons. In the case of Baltar's cult, I don't feel that my emotions have been engaged one way or the other.

Yeah, it's a little tough without other more tangible grievances with polytheism. (His whole argument that the gods aren't there is sort of irrelevant, because neither is his God then...) But I think the writers are setting things up so that some may come to be sympathetic to forming some sort of cylon-faction alliance. I agree it would be more engaging with specific problems, but I think the writers, in an effort to not offend anyone, made the colonists' religion so vague, that they can't come up with any specific grievances to counter with:)


There's another problem. If down the line Baltar's followers or message turn out to be of value to the fleet, then the writers will be saying they want us to see the cult as the good guys.

Well, I think the writers are trying to label the cylons' as immature in mind/philosophy/ethics. Thus, the constant referral to as "children". I don't think the story is of good/bad, and I agree that I doubt true god(s) will be revealed. I think the ambivalent feeling you have right now is exactly what the writers are shooting for. They're blurring the lines so to speak. The question won't be one of the past genocide anymore (as Leoben intimated), but rather, both humans and cylons willing to let bygones be bygones and move forward together, or be destroyed by each others hands?

Humans were enslavers (a storyline not really focused on, but will be with Caprica) and treated sentient beings like objects. Cylons returned and blew them out the atmosphere Both "unforgivable" acts by today's ethics (and often mixed together in RW situations). Baltar's cult in that sense is the vanguard of a forgiving and open humanity not stuck in the past.

Can you forgive the unforgivable? ( A question Tyrol posed to Baltar during the episode.) It's also the question posed to 6 by Tigh for the genocide.

[timbo]

I really think Baltar is the most misunderstood character on the show. I should not really even be posting here because I have not seen the episode yet, but all the same I feel impelled to say that Baltar´s cult is completely unimportant. The important thing is his changing / awakening / redemption, whatever you want to call it. Of course it was sudden - he didn´t want to die, but to live meant to live with the knowledge that he was instrumental in the near annihilation of his race. Anyway, I have started a thread in his defense and you had better all read it as there will be a test tommorrow.

[ShadowEnigma]

The main thing that disappointed me was that the climax of the episode (mutiny on the Demetrius) was given away *in the trailer*! Kinda took the edge off that one.

Yeah, I try to stay away from the trailers and the opening sequence so I don't see anything from the episode like that, because it ruins it half the time.

No Edward James Olmos! In fact, Adama's character is a bit lost at the moment, his only real role is to read to Roslin. I'm sure he'll have more to do soon.

I know! I didn't get enough Olmos stare, I'll need to rewatch some other episodes to get my fix :p

I really think Baltar is the most misunderstood character on the show. I should not really even be posting here because I have not seen the episode yet, but all the same I feel impelled to say that Baltar´s cult is completely unimportant. The important thing is his changing / awakening / redemption, whatever you want to call it. Of course it was sudden - he didn´t want to die, but to live meant to live with the knowledge that he was instrumental in the near annihilation of his race. Anyway, I have started a thread in his defense and you had better all read it as there will be a test tommorrow.

I would disagree with this. After you watch the episode I'll be curious if you change your mind about it. i think this cult is very important, and will be critical in some of the events that will happen in the fleet in the coming episodes.

[Osprey]

"U-boat in spaaaaace"

iirc, ron or dave has stated that the Demetrius is the closest they've come to a das boat in space feel ...

annnd, in a huge irony, about the only crap the crew of das boat DIDN'T have to slog through was a mutiny!
:-)

big heh -- i was so intrigued by the demetrius plot line that it was not until i read this thread that i realized there had been no bill, lee, or laura!
:-)

/i think someone referred to the old man offhandedly at least once; that must have subconsciously satisfied me or sumtin' ...

[redwards95]

I certainly enjoyed this episode, but there's no doubt that it exists mainly to setup various plot points that will be important in the future. The start of this season has been a long, methodical, emotionally draining build up like the start of a roller coaster slowly climbing to the top of the first hill. It would appear that now we are just about at the peak and soon we'll experience an amazing drop down the other side. I can't wait.

[timbo]

I certainly enjoyed this episode, but there's no doubt that it exists mainly to setup various plot points that will be important in the future. The start of this season has been a long, methodical, emotionally draining build up like the start of a roller coaster slowly climbing to the top of the first hill. It would appear that now we are just about at the peak and soon we'll experience an amazing drop down the other side. I can't wait.

Well said, that man.

[matronik]

Another great episode. And once again so many questions be answered. I think all of you have addressed what I found important.

[pagad]

Baltar's annoying me now.

Shock! Horror!

Seriously, whenever Baltar's cult comes on I have to struggle not to yawn.

I like James Callis. He's a great actor. And Baltar is pretty much the only "loveable villain" ever. But Baltar's "OMG I see the light! I have been a naughty naughty boy! And you should all worship the one true god btw" sudden change in attitude grates on my nerves. I'm bored with his story. I don't find it interesting at all.

I want more focus on the Demetrius! And we haven't seen ANYTHING of the Cylons, bar one Leoben model in a bashed up state, since Cavil thought "Y'know, frak it, I'm going to nuke these bastards". Cavil should get more screen time. He's deliciously evil.

This season is leading up to something awesome, though, and it started brilliantly. Given that I thought the first half of S3 was a bit shit (I hate the New Caprican espisodes, I dislike them even more than Black Market, at least that was set in the sodding fleet and not some pseudo-Baghdad) and it got much better afterwards, I'm holding high hopes. And even if I don't like what I've seen so far as much as S1 or S2, I still like it enough to think "This show's the best damn thing on TV."

[urbanacid]

1st post in this forum. Good episode liking what they doing with Galens character also glad to see Orion in the background as they approached the spinning heavy raider. Mutiny !!! saw that one coming. People starting to drop dead at an alarming rate. Did anyone else think that Athena was acting wierd in that she was actively instigating and sowing discord and i don´t remember her ever doing/being like that before.

[1Nivek1]

In regards to Athena and Gaita sowing discord...I would too. Kara's acting like an idiot if you ask me. You're talking about a girl that "might" be a cylon, and appears (even in her past), to have a death wish. Not to mention, that they have followed all of her orders until finally she disobeyed one of her own...the rendevous with the fleet. I guess it's about time they gave Helo a logical stance.

Athena may not just die either, if they are near a resurrection hub, she'd get to be tortured over and over by her bretheren.

[raginggaijin]

Previous posters have touched on subjects I've thought of, so great discussion already!

I believe you, Starbuck!

http://bp0.blogger.com/__npz77dOgSg/SB3pHaZgdJI/AAAAAAAAAAY/5xb5SDpg3nw/s200/CnDMandalaFinal01

Did anyone notice how Galen was shrouded in darkness when visiting Baltar's church-quarters?

I am so sick of Helo's serial contrarian actions. Lemming.

[stavrosg]

Athena may not just die either, if they are near a resurrection hub, she'd get to be tortured over and over by her bretheren.
From the Cylons' POV:
If Athena died somehow and I were in charge of the resurrection ship she showed up, I'd put her into a heavy raider, jump way off the resurrection range and airlock her.. Boxing her would not be enough :D

I am so sick of Helo's serial contrarian actions. Lemming.
I'd say that Helo is anything but a lemming.

[pagad]

Jumping to a Cylon baseship is bad enough. Jumping to a Cylon baseship without a way to get back to the fleet, ever is actually beyond suicide.

So the mutiny: good idea. At least from the POV of everyone who isn't Starbuck. Or Leoben, for that matter.

[timbo]

Urbanacid - what does "when are you gonna hear it" refer to?

[urbanacid]

sorry for the confusion its my sig its part of something Cavil says to Natalie in response to "says who" and he says "god almighty the voice of reason when are gonna hear it:" just love the way he says the last part.

[timbo]

Like it.

[Starstruck]

I agree that the plotline feels a bit draggy this season, but I think we feel this becaues we wanna know soooo badly. Also, because the Cylons are in no position to strike the fleet right now, and running from or fighting Cylons gave past seasons' epsiodes so much of their dramatic interest.

That said, I think this episode had some of the best acting so far. Aaron Douglas is quickly becoming one of my favorite actors. The scene in his quarters with Baltar is amazing. Also loved the Full Metal Jacket nod. Katee Sackhoff is also just amazing. She actually LOOKS like a tortured crazy artist-prophet, even in the eyes.

As for the mutiny, I thought they played it well, even though I too was disappointed that I already knew the punchline from the previews. Stupid TMI previews! Helo did everything he could not to mutiny, but then had to because of Starbuck's irrational behavior. Of course, from the previews for next week, again probably TMI, well, I won't say anymore for those avoiding previews. Looks like it's going to be a very exciting episode.

[Starstruck]

Oh, did anyone else catch that Balter said he needed redemption. Could be a clue or a red herring, but I heard that and thought ooooh, it's you!

[joemc72]

Not the best one I've seen (only compared to other BSG eppies, comparing it to anything else on TV it was still 10/10), but given the events that seem to be upcoming over the next few episodes, it was a decent 'move the story forward a bit' episode.

[timbo]

I have just watched it and I thought it was absolutely brilliant. I don´t know how to say this without really pi.....ng everyone off, but reading all the posts, I sometimes wonder if we are watching the same show. How so many people from the country where it was made, are not really "getting" the show amazes me. This show is breaking molds. The traditional reactions to situations and pidgeon holing of characters doesn´t work in this show. The people behind it are asking us, I think, to stop booing the baddies and hooting for the goodies, and tread into uncomfortable, ambiguous territory with them. I dont know who the cylons are, and I dont care anymore. Really. And yet I am more absorbed than ever in the story. Baltar is not a "lovable villain". Lex Luther is a lovable villain. Whether Baltar is for real or not I cant say. He believes it and that is what is important. I think the writers put him in a robe and surrounded him with flakey, nubile women, and everyone has fallen for the trick. You see that stuff and you dismiss him.
Chief scared the crap out of me tonight, with his skinhead and bunched fists. Yet Baltar went to his quarters and risked being used to redecorate the place in order to reach out to the chief. He did not stand to gain anything in conventional terms, but still he did it. The chief is the one who is facing his situation with the most honesty. He is tough, cynical, tormented and determined to punish himself and yet Baltar reached him. The important thing in everyone´s posts seems to be who is good and who is bad, or who is a cylon and who isn´t, or even who is insane and who is not. They are all pretty much trying to do what they think is right, probably even Leoben. Starbuck was given the charge of "following her instincts" and finding Earth by Adama. Helo called the mutiny because he couldný risk the lives of the crew. Sharon saw things the same as Helo. Poor Anders doesn´t know what to think. His wife clearly has a very real connection to a cylon man, and he has just discovered that he himself is a cylon. He is lost. My bet is Adama will say that they should have risked jumping to the cylon base ship - that was their mission. If they dont find Earth, they are pretty much fracked anyway, and he was risking one ship and one crew, including a girl he loves like a daughter, to try and roll the hard six. I can understand people saying "I cant wait until Anders beats up Leoben, he is really gonna get his", but if you want it there is so much more in the show than that. A few months ago, I read an english newspaper here in Spain with a review of BSG on the TV page. That was the first I had heard of it, and as I liked the original when I was twenty or so, I thought I would try it. I watched the episode "33" first, not the miniseries. I got hooked instantly and went back and watched the pilot and everything else. From the beginning, it was like a tuning fork was dinging in my head. Maybre some of you need to take off your blinkers and watch it again until you get the tuning fork feeling. I know I probably haven´t made myself any friends ranting like this, but today someone sent me a beautiful "open letter" that Gabriel Garcia Marquez sent to his friends with instructions to "post it wherever you want". He is the author of "A hundred years of solitude" and "Love in the time of cholera" and he is dying. In one of the lines in his letter he tells us that "no one will remember us for our secret thoughts, so we should ask God for the strength and wisdom to express them", so that´s what I have tried to do tonight. Buenas noches.

[ShadowEnigma]

The people behind it are asking us, I think, to stop booing the baddies and hooting for the goodies, and tread into uncomfortable, ambiguous territory with them.... Baltar is not a "lovable villain". Lex Luther is a lovable villain. Whether Baltar is for real or not I cant say. He believes it and that is what is important. I think the writers put him in a robe and surrounded him with flakey, nubile women, and everyone has fallen for the trick. You see that stuff and you dismiss him.

I think that is important to point out. Baltar isn't a villain right now, he is just different. The cult has yet to do anything wrong (minus breaking into that religious ceremony thing). We only see him as bad because he is going against the grain of the society. It is a gray area definitely, especially since many are probably conflicted over the trial and such.

Chief scared the crap out of me tonight, with his skinhead and bunched fists.I definitely agree with this. Galen as a skinhead is just scary. I wonder if he is going to begin going radical now, or that is just the new look he adopted.

The important thing in everyone´s posts seems to be who is good and who is bad, or who is a cylon and who isn´t, or even who is insane and who is not.Coming from the person who has been trying to convince us Tigh and Co. aren't Cylons :p:lol:

He is the author of "A hundred years of solitude" *Shutters* I did not like that book one bit.

[Osprey]

" He did not stand to gain anything in conventional terms"

au contrare. galen is still a leader on the ship, if gaius can get him into the "club" it would be great for gaius. however, from a conventional risk/reward calculus yes gaius took a big chance ...

now, does gaius garnering this growing movement, embracing monotheism, etc. etc. mean he fer sure is the 12th or completely eliminates him from the running? i'm not really sure ...

[Mishakal]

I think that Gaius may know that Tyrol is a Cylon on an instinctive level (I'm pretty sure he suspects Tory of being one by now) and his going to him to apologise was part of him following his instincts.

We've seen that Saul is still suspicious of everything connected to Baltar, but I could see Caprica-Six changing that and converting him.

In Sam's case I think I will go out on a limb and say that Leoben might be the one who will turn him to the Cylon God. We have already seen Number 2 get into Sam's head and push buttons in a single conversation, a few more buttons and a little trust just might be enough for it to happen.

[pagad]

I have just watched it and I thought it was absolutely brilliant. I don´t know how to say this without really pi.....ng everyone off, but reading all the posts, I sometimes wonder if we are watching the same show. How so many people from the country where it was made, are not really "getting" the show amazes me. This show is breaking molds. The traditional reactions to situations and pidgeon holing of characters doesn´t work in this show. The people behind it are asking us, I think, to stop booing the baddies and hooting for the goodies, and tread into uncomfortable, ambiguous territory with them. I dont know who the cylons are, and I dont care anymore. Really. And yet I am more absorbed than ever in the story. Baltar is not a "lovable villain". Lex Luther is a lovable villain. Whether Baltar is for real or not I cant say. He believes it and that is what is important. I think the writers put him in a robe and surrounded him with flakey, nubile women, and everyone has fallen for the trick. You see that stuff and you dismiss him.
Chief scared the crap out of me tonight, with his skinhead and bunched fists. Yet Baltar went to his quarters and risked being used to redecorate the place in order to reach out to the chief. He did not stand to gain anything in conventional terms, but still he did it. The chief is the one who is facing his situation with the most honesty. He is tough, cynical, tormented and determined to punish himself and yet Baltar reached him. The important thing in everyone´s posts seems to be who is good and who is bad, or who is a cylon and who isn´t, or even who is insane and who is not. They are all pretty much trying to do what they think is right, probably even Leoben. Starbuck was given the charge of "following her instincts" and finding Earth by Adama. Helo called the mutiny because he couldný risk the lives of the crew. Sharon saw things the same as Helo. Poor Anders doesn´t know what to think. His wife clearly has a very real connection to a cylon man, and he has just discovered that he himself is a cylon. He is lost. My bet is Adama will say that they should have risked jumping to the cylon base ship - that was their mission. If they dont find Earth, they are pretty much fracked anyway, and he was risking one ship and one crew, including a girl he loves like a daughter, to try and roll the hard six. I can understand people saying "I cant wait until Anders beats up Leoben, he is really gonna get his", but if you want it there is so much more in the show than that. A few months ago, I read an english newspaper here in Spain with a review of BSG on the TV page. That was the first I had heard of it, and as I liked the original when I was twenty or so, I thought I would try it. I watched the episode "33" first, not the miniseries. I got hooked instantly and went back and watched the pilot and everything else. From the beginning, it was like a tuning fork was dinging in my head. Maybre some of you need to take off your blinkers and watch it again until you get the tuning fork feeling. I know I probably haven´t made myself any friends ranting like this, but today someone sent me a beautiful "open letter" that Gabriel Garcia Marquez sent to his friends with instructions to "post it wherever you want". He is the author of "A hundred years of solitude" and "Love in the time of cholera" and he is dying. In one of the lines in his letter he tells us that "no one will remember us for our secret thoughts, so we should ask God for the strength and wisdom to express them", so that´s what I have tried to do tonight. Buenas noches.

Woah, wall of text! Please space it out a bit more!

I'm presuming that was aimed at my comments. That's fine. You're finding it really engrossing, and I'm pleased for you. But please don't presume that because you enjoyed it so much other people aren't allowed to express their opinion.

I am genuinely fed up with Baltar now. He's gone from pariah to messiah in a short space of time (a couple of months at best) and nothing the character does surprises me anymore.

[timbo]

I think that is important to point out. Baltar isn't a villain right now, he is just different. The cult has yet to do anything wrong (minus breaking into that religious ceremony thing). We only see him as bad because he is going against the grain of the society. It is a gray area definitely, especially since many are probably conflicted over the trial and such.

I definitely agree with this. Galen as a skinhead is just scary. I wonder if he is going to begin going radical now, or that is just the new look he adopted.

Coming from the person who has been trying to convince us Tigh and Co. aren't Cylons :p:lol:

*Shutters* I did not like that book one bit.


Yeah, I know. I am just as full of s##t as the next person usually.
The truth is I couldn´t get into it either because everyone had the same name. But the letter really is beautiful. I f you are interested, I am sure that if you google "Garcia Marquez open letter" you will find it.

Woah, wall of text! Please space it out a bit more!

I'm presuming that was aimed at my comments. That's fine. You're finding it really engrossing, and I'm pleased for you. But please don't presume that because you enjoyed it so much other people aren't allowed to express their opinion.

I am genuinely fed up with Baltar now. He's gone from pariah to messiah in a short space of time (a couple of months at best) and nothing the character does surprises me anymore.



You are right, I get on my high horse sometimes. I was not trying to say that people shouldn´t post negative comments, at all, and I did see at the end of your post that said you think it is the best thing on TV. It is perhaps a little egocentric to expect people to share my views, which I do sometimes, but I get frustrated when I think some fans are missing what the writers are trying to say. It is usually me, missing the meaning, but with BSG, it has been really weird - I have felt tuned in from the beginning.

[CylonCarpetMuncher]

Does anyone else find it ridiculous just how many fairly important characters are on the Demetrius? Aside from five of the seven main characters in the credits, and three of the final four, who is left in the fleet? Racetrack, Shark, Figurski's all I can think up. I guess Dee's hiding somewhere.
well (ex-)Captain Kelly is in the brig wondering why Caprica Six gets so many visits :lol: he's probably the final cylon - he heard the music but couldn't get out of the brig LOL

[CylonCarpetMuncher]

1st post in this forum.

Welcome to the colon... I mean combined ohhh frakk getting ahead of myself.
Good to know you.

Did anyone else think that Athena was acting wierd in that she was actively instigating and sowing discord and i don´t remember her ever doing/being like that before.

Hmm it reminded me of the Bonus Scene from The Son Also Rises (confrontation with Cally http://youtube.com/watch?v=1IB7IPS5KbU (http://youtube.com/watch?v=1IB7IPS5KbU)) also I don't think she's ready to be rubbing shoulders with any more S7 cylons (1 Leoban is OK) considering she killed Boomer and she's thinking of protecting Hera... well Hera's at the babysitters but you know. Anywzay take that with a grain of salt because she'll be totally different next week!

[JubalHarshaw]

Baltar gets a handshake, no one trusts Kara, there's a Cylon civil war! Nothing new to see here. I expected a bit more plot movement, and instead got "to be continued" by an obvious cliffhanger. Not too much forward movement in this episode. Still hooked on the show, of course. Perhaps part of my frustration comes from wanting to know where all this is going!

[urbanacid]

sup CCM, yeah people got me thinking with athena´s fate if she dies and it makes sense, but i can´t get over that she was actin wierd, watched the ep like 5 times and every time i´m left with the same sensation that the toaster is on the fritz but anywhoo thats just me. The chief was amazing in that ep and gauis aswell though i don´t think he´ll be joining the happy clappers anytime soon.

Random thought here : I find with most shows you know more than the charaters on screen about their situation, i´m seeing with bsg that nearly everyone (characters) knows something important that we dont. erg frustrating.

[Spencerian]

The reason is for us, the viewer.

The writers could put several new characters there, but why? We the viewers wouldn't be able to identify with them as easily and miss out on enjoying guessing what they'd do next based on past behavior.

The character that really stimulates me is Sharon, here. She should be able to identify more with Leoben's ultimate motivations but here, we find her thinking entirely, completely and selfishly human. Weird.

[Starstruck]

I have just watched it and I thought it was absolutely brilliant. I don´t know how to say this without really pi.....ng everyone off, but reading all the posts, I sometimes wonder if we are watching the same show. How so many people from the country where it was made, are not really "getting" the show amazes me. This show is breaking molds. The traditional reactions to situations and pidgeon holing of characters doesn´t work in this show. The people behind it are asking us, I think, to stop booing the baddies and hooting for the goodies, and tread into uncomfortable, ambiguous territory with them. I dont know who the cylons are, and I dont care anymore. Really. And yet I am more absorbed than ever in the story. Baltar is not a "lovable villain". Lex Luther is a lovable villain. Whether Baltar is for real or not I cant say. He believes it and that is what is important. I think the writers put him in a robe and surrounded him with flakey, nubile women, and everyone has fallen for the trick. You see that stuff and you dismiss him.
Chief scared the crap out of me tonight, with his skinhead and bunched fists. Yet Baltar went to his quarters and risked being used to redecorate the place in order to reach out to the chief. He did not stand to gain anything in conventional terms, but still he did it. The chief is the one who is facing his situation with the most honesty. He is tough, cynical, tormented and determined to punish himself and yet Baltar reached him. The important thing in everyone´s posts seems to be who is good and who is bad, or who is a cylon and who isn´t, or even who is insane and who is not. They are all pretty much trying to do what they think is right, probably even Leoben. Starbuck was given the charge of "following her instincts" and finding Earth by Adama. Helo called the mutiny because he couldný risk the lives of the crew. Sharon saw things the same as Helo. Poor Anders doesn´t know what to think. His wife clearly has a very real connection to a cylon man, and he has just discovered that he himself is a cylon. He is lost. My bet is Adama will say that they should have risked jumping to the cylon base ship - that was their mission. If they dont find Earth, they are pretty much fracked anyway, and he was risking one ship and one crew, including a girl he loves like a daughter, to try and roll the hard six. I can understand people saying "I cant wait until Anders beats up Leoben, he is really gonna get his", but if you want it there is so much more in the show than that. A few months ago, I read an english newspaper here in Spain with a review of BSG on the TV page. That was the first I had heard of it, and as I liked the original when I was twenty or so, I thought I would try it. I watched the episode "33" first, not the miniseries. I got hooked instantly and went back and watched the pilot and everything else. From the beginning, it was like a tuning fork was dinging in my head. Maybre some of you need to take off your blinkers and watch it again until you get the tuning fork feeling. I know I probably haven´t made myself any friends ranting like this, but today someone sent me a beautiful "open letter" that Gabriel Garcia Marquez sent to his friends with instructions to "post it wherever you want". He is the author of "A hundred years of solitude" and "Love in the time of cholera" and he is dying. In one of the lines in his letter he tells us that "no one will remember us for our secret thoughts, so we should ask God for the strength and wisdom to express them", so that´s what I have tried to do tonight. Buenas noches.

I'm confused by this post, Timbo. You seem to be saying that no one else realizes this is a ground-breaking show or that by posting about negative aspects of the show we are not "getting it". I disagree. I think you have a wide range of views on the show here on this forum, and most if not all of us love the complexity of the show and the characters. It's not the forum vs. Timbo as you seem to want to keep couching it.

[timbo]

I'm confused by this post, Timbo. You seem to be saying that no one else realizes this is a ground-breaking show or that by posting about negative aspects of the show we are not "getting it". I disagree. I think you have a wide range of views on the show here on this forum, and most if not all of us love the complexity of the show and the characters. It's not the forum vs. Timbo as you seem to want to keep couching it.

Yeah, I overstepped the mark a bit there didn´t I. Sorry. It was late, and I was suffering from emotional overload form watching the episode. I probably need a short, sharp telling off, and that´s exactly what you have given me.

[Starstruck]

Well, you're always gracious when someone calls you on it, so I can't stay annoyed with you, now can I? :)

I think you're right that some of the details we obsess about won't matter as much in the end as the overall awesomeness, and maybe even the message(s) of the show. However, I do think who the final Cylon is matters a lot, because I think it will have a major bearing on what the Colonials and Cylons do. Just imagine how differently they'll react, and the implications it could have on the plot, if it's Starbuck or Baltar or Lee or a dark horse.

Yeah, I overstepped the mark a bit there didn´t I. Sorry. It was late, and I was suffering from emotional overload form watching the episode. I probably need a short, sharp telling off, and that´s exactly what you have given me.

[timbo]

Well, you're always gracious when someone calls you on it, so I can't stay annoyed with you, now can I? :)


Phew, that´s a relief. I was sitting here in front of my computer, sulking like a five-year old. Thanks Starstruck, I know I had it coming, and I am glad it was you who took me down to chinatown. I don´t want to scare you, but you are quickly becoming my "forum mother figure". I am nearly as scared of you as I am of her. This is NOT tongue in cheek - I thought I was going to be up all night, waiting for forgiveness.

And FYI, its not the forum V timbo, its the world V timbo.

[Starstruck]

Well, you're always gracious when someone calls you on it, so I can't stay annoyed with you, now can I? :)


Phew, that´s a relief. I was sitting here in front of my computer, sulking like a five-year old. Thanks Starstruck, I know I had it coming, and I am glad it was you who took me down to chinatown. I don´t want to scare you, but you are quickly becoming my "forum mother figure". I am nearly as scared of you as I am of her. This is NOT tongue in cheek - I thought I was going to be up all night, waiting for forgiveness.

And FYI, its not the forum V timbo, its the world V timbo.

Hehehe, you're too funny.

[timbo]

Hehehe, you're too funny.


Thank you. I like you too. You chastize with a firm hand, but also with kindness.

[Asiriya]

Sorry to drag timbo's post up again, but I wanted to say my own thing; I've just recently watched season 1 and 2 again, and I can feel a change between the two; while 1 seems very new and exciting, two is not quite as sharp, nor three. I loved the first season, and the first two episodes of this, but i personally feel last episode was poor. I know the feeling you mean, the story really works for me, but at the moment things are just going too slowly.

[redwards95]

I watched this episode again and liked it a lot more. There seemed to me to be clear signs pointing to either (both?) Starbuck and Baltar as the final cylon in this episode. I think we're getting far enough into the season that the chance of these signs are red herrings is pretty small.

[OldManRivers]

I would like to add that for Baltar's cult, I can believe it. 40'000 people in the fleet? I don't doubt he has a following. People are dumb, persons are smart. I don't underestimate the ability of mob following.

I didn't notice Adama and Roslin's absence till around the 3rd act. I didn't mind it.

I'm with JoeBoy (Joe Bedouin) on this one. I feel that it's all setting it up. Season 4 is written quite different. RDM mentions this I think. How they know where they are going. Previous seasons, they had a rough idea of where they would end, but wouldn't know till around after writing episode 16-17-18. THIS season, they know exactly how it's going to end. They have a clear understanding. This, leads to a very different way of writing. I also think the Network Executives understand BSG cannot do stand-alone episodes. It's an arch-type series. As RDM said in the podcast for "He That Believith (sp?)", there is a lot of story's being thrown about. They aren't necessarily writing it with a "a-story", "b-story", "c-story" in mind. They are just writing to run to the finish. And right now it feels like the jolt before the sprint.

In terms of character, best season. In terms of action, definietly lacking. In terms of story, we'll see.

I look forward to tomorrow.